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SixFigureSandwich posted:First game update - tried to punch Cuno, failed and hurt myself lmao. Harry is a broken mess and also a free-market libertarian (but I repeat myself) No, of course I didn't lose my fun. *Gun*. gently caress it! I didn't lose my gun!
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Apr 28, 2022 20:31
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A Bad King posted:I utterly love how well-done the Evrart brothers are written into the story. Scum, true slugs, but also...wouldn't you prefer them on your corner, supporting your town, over the alternative of intentional systematic neglect? Also, we're going to build a youth center being the go-to for "most useless project for a disadvantaged community but also most quickly to find support among the middle and upper crust." Anyone who throws their men away like that because they're thinking "big picture " is a piece of poo poo you don't want anywhere near power.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:33
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Gaius Marius posted:Anyone who throws their men away like that because they're thinking "big picture " is a piece of poo poo you don't want anywhere near power. uhh, I think we have very different views of the tribunal.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:41
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Yeah it wasn't the Claires who sent a bunch of insane mercenaries there only to bail when they lose control of them and they start shooting the place up, he's done plenty enough to make him a big moral question mark for all his rhetoric to not also make him responsible for what his enemies are doing
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Apr 28, 2022 20:44
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I didn't say that he was responsible. I said he didn't give a poo poo that they died.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:48
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Epic High Five posted:Yeah it wasn't the Claires who sent a bunch of insane mercenaries there only to bail when they lose control of them and they start shooting the place up, he's done plenty enough to make him a big moral question mark for all his rhetoric to not also make him responsible for what his enemies are doing TBF Evrarte did intentionally take credit for the killing specifically to spark a conflict in which he knew people would die. But, like, look around Revachol. Shits falling apart. Joyce has squeezed every penny she can possibly get out of the place and the people of Revachol were willing to risk their lives to get out from under her. Evrarte just gave it a little push. Should I still be spoilering this stuff?
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Apr 28, 2022 20:48
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Evrart is every single small dicked middle manager who has to constantly flex on people lower on the totem pole than him.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:50
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Gaius Marius posted:Evrart is every single small dicked middle manager who has to constantly flex on people lower on the totem pole than him. Harry, Harry! Please I'm not as bad as all that.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:51
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I thought the Evart twins were more an allusion to Putin and Medvedev doing a job swap to get around the term limits on the Russian presidency. It's not some super deep commentary on two party politics, it's a straightfoward dig at people thinking that you can solve problems of concentration of power by writing a rulebook that says you aren't allowed to concentrate power. The Evarts break the spirit of the rulebook, and they maintain power by doing nasty stuff entirely outside of the scope of the rulebook, but they can say with a straight face that they are following all the rules and that lets them use the rulebook as a veneer of legitimacy. e: Re the tribunal: I think the real red card against Evrart is not that he's provoking a conflict, it's that he's provoking a massacre. The Hardie Boys are being set up to be killed and they don't know it. It's unclear to me if Rosie knows. But the Hardies aren't Evrart's real wetwork guys and he could definitely arrange for things to be a lot cleaner. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Apr 28, 2022 |
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Apr 28, 2022 20:51
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Gaius Marius posted:Evrart is every single small dicked middle manager who has to constantly flex on people lower on the totem pole than him. He's the head of a union, his job is to poo poo on all the managers. Edit: which is exactly what he's doing with the strike.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:56
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Gaius Marius posted:Evrart is every single small dicked middle manager who has to constantly flex on people lower on the totem pole than him. that's a show he puts on to get people to underestimate him
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Apr 28, 2022 20:57
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I really enjoyed seeing the little bits of hope strewn about. For example, Annette returning to maths. The whole church subplot. Lilienne, providing Harry a huge heaping dose of hope for something new (if he gave up drinking for a year or so). I swear, when the brain threw me that line I went utterly sober on my first run. Harry needs something new. I really love this game.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:58
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either artcop or commie cop opines that the real difference between Evart's actions for the union and any given capitalist like Joyce is primarily aesthetic. the Hardies are expendable and replaceable but only in the same way that foot soldiers are
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Apr 28, 2022 20:59
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Benagain posted:that's a show he puts on to get people to underestimate him Have you ever read Mother Night?
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Apr 28, 2022 21:11
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Evrarte is one of my favorite characters, but you can't really understand him without juxtaposing him with Joyce. Joyce is a compassionate, well-spoken, upright citizen. She feels for the people of Revachol, she really does. And yet, her legion of professional baby killers are ready to do to Revachol what they've done in so many places because that is what she is: a billionaire. She cannot exist without spreading endless suffering because that is what billionaires do, that is how they exist - they turn human suffering into profit. She's like a vampire that feels really bad about how monstrous she is, and yet she'll wipe the blood of her mouth and feed again tomorrow. At his core, Evrarte is a caricature. He is the embodiment of every negative thing you've ever heard about unions: dishonest, sleazy, violent, and absolutely criminal. He's killed to obtain power, deals drugs to fund the strike, and employs virulent racists. And yet, all the poo poo he does improves the lives of the people of Revachol. He is the dishonest, sleazy, violent, vampire hunter.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:37
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He's improving the lives in revachol by gentrifying the fishing village?
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Apr 28, 2022 21:38
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The village on the coast is no threat to anyone, least of all Joyce. There's a reason she doesn't find it repulsive in the way she finds Claire and the Union repulsive.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:42
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Feels Villeneuve posted:The village on the coast is no threat to anyone, least of all Joyce. There's a reason she doesn't find it repulsive in the way she finds Claire and the Union repulsive. If you ask her about it, she wants to build a big hotel there and make the population into servants.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:43
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Feels Villeneuve posted:The village on the coast is no threat to anyone, least of all Joyce. There's a reason she doesn't find it repulsive in the way she finds Claire and the Union repulsive. And what does that have to do with Evrart
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Apr 28, 2022 21:45
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ELECTROCHEMISTRY [Trivial : Success] What was that about trafficking drugs and then kicking out anybody who becomes an addict to be *someone else's* problem?
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Apr 28, 2022 21:49
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Gaius Marius posted:He's improving the lives in revachol by gentrifying the fishing village? I feel like you're missing the forest for the trees on this one. Evrarte is building a youth center that will improve the neighborhood, sure, but he is also using coercion to meet his ends. Evrarte specifically wants harry to go around getting the signature so that everyone thinks the cops are on his side, just like when he gives Harry the novelty check. Imo it is more a commentary on authoritarianism than anything. Is it ok to bully the world into shape? Or should improvements only be voluntary?
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Apr 28, 2022 21:52
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He's building the center to drive people out of the village from the construction noises. He's ruining the lives of innocent people for no gain but his own. You and others continued assertion that Joyce is worse means nothing. My position is that Evrart is human garbage, I'm asserting nothing else about anyone else's character or their goals.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:55
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The question, I guess, is why it's considered uniquely ugly and corrupt for labor to exercise political power in the same way that states do. Evart has a group of militants ready to exact violence and die in the service of political power- this is precisely the point of an army.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:55
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Refer to the previous post
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Apr 28, 2022 21:57
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Gaius Marius posted:He's building the center to drive people out of the village from the construction noises. He's ruining the lives of innocent people for no gain but his own. You and others continued assertion that Joyce is worse means nothing. My position is that Evrart is human garbage, I'm asserting nothing else about anyone else's character or their goals. You have a group of people living in squalor because every drop of blood has been squeezed out of Revachol and Evart is the one who ruined their lives?
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Apr 28, 2022 21:57
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Jesus Christ dude learn to read
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Apr 28, 2022 21:59
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Is it ok to bully the world into shape? Or should improvements only be voluntary? dios mio! (draw a cross) a liberal!
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Apr 28, 2022 22:01
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Feels Villeneuve posted:You have a group of people living in squalor because every drop of blood has been squeezed out of Revachol and Evart is the one who ruined their lives? I just think it's wild that using this same line of logic nobody should ever build anything ever again. poo poo, I live in Brooklyn and there is constant construction every day on every block.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:02
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I just think it's wild that using this same line of logic nobody should ever build anything ever again. That, and looking at people living in abject poverty and concluding "they're happy where they are". Who benefits with the idyllic image of happy peasantry?
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Apr 28, 2022 22:06
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I mean it's deliberate framing by the game developers that you never meet anyone who might plausibly replace Evrart.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:07
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Alchenar posted:I mean it's deliberate framing by the game developers that you never meet anyone who might plausibly replace Evrart. Do you mean apart from Edgar who replaces him every election cycle?
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Apr 28, 2022 22:09
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I think Evrart being a proud scumbag or his real intentions with the village should be analyzed alongside his obvious and very deliberately planned out campaign to get you to very publicly show people you are on his/the union's side. My take is that Evrart and Joyce are how they are specifically to create this sort of tension in your mind if you consider yourself a socialist, to make you analyze your real priorities by making your most obvious ally one of the least pleasant or trustworthy people around, specifically in how they treat you as a cop when previously this neglected corner of the city was told to police itself and so it did until our intrepid hero stumbled in only to go insane after making some progress. Every ideology is asked to contemplate some realpolitik, except Moralism which just gets poo poo on. The point is to get to some big moment at some point in your playthrough where you have to decide if you care about the best shot for workers in the area or if having to deal with the person who has thus far been their only defender is just too much even if it means ceding the battle to the moralintern More importantly, no matter what you do you're just floating through this conflict that has been going on before you and shall continue once you're gone. At the end of the day Joyce and the RCM is gone and the union and Evrart are still there, it's probably not the first time people there have seen it happen either
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Apr 28, 2022 22:09
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Alchenar posted:I mean it's deliberate framing by the game developers that you never meet anyone who might plausibly replace Evrart. The game also "cheats" a bit by making Evart extremely ugly (to an extent it suggests that he uses this, and puts on a show of corruption to his benefit- I'm reminded by a bit in a John le Carre book where a double agent acted greedy, constantly asking for more money for (mis)intelligence, because greed was an understandable motive that made him seem less threatening) and giving Joyce some of the most memorable dialogue in the game
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Apr 28, 2022 22:10
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He's a Sarte reference
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Apr 28, 2022 22:12
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I feel like you're missing the forest for the trees on this one. I think it's less about authoritarianism and more about whether it's moral or necessary for labor to "fight dirty" if it's in service of political power. If the capital-L Liberals are going to use coercion, back-alley deals, assassinations, and political violence against you, is it sensible to just turn the other cheek out of morality? I don't think that's a question with a simple answer, obviously, but I think it does want to ask the player that.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:16
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Evrate's real plan is to use the youth centre construction to drive out the current residents and then build union housing, right?
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Apr 28, 2022 22:19
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Feels Villeneuve posted:The question, I guess, is why it's considered uniquely ugly and corrupt for labor to exercise political power in the same way that states do. Evart has a group of militants ready to exact violence and die in the service of political power- this is precisely the point of an army. Part of it could be propaganda, but I think there's also an argument that it's uniquely ugly when labor does it because that's the one that's nominally on your side as a worker. Capitol ruining you for a greater objective is bad on its own, but when labor does it it also feels like a betrayal.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:19
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Vagabong posted:Evrate's real plan is to use the youth centre construction to drive out the current residents and then build union housing, right? It's entirely possible he also wants to provide public services like that to the locals because that's also a form of political power. Though maybe you've read bits I didn't. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Apr 28, 2022 |
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Apr 28, 2022 22:20
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Yeah, its clear that he lasts for power, just that he thinks the best way of acquiring it is by making the lives of Martinase's residents better.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:22
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christmas boots posted:Part of it could be propaganda, but I think there's also an argument that it's uniquely ugly when labor does it because that's the one that's nominally on your side as a worker. Capitol ruining you for a greater objective is bad on its own, but when labor does it it also feels like a betrayal. How much of a betrayal is it? The Hardies are foot soldiers. Exacting, and taking the brunt of violence for political ends is what soldiers do. The Union takeover of the harbor is likely to cause a lot more violence and get more people killed - is this a betrayal? I guess this is sort of the anti-moralist view - does it make any sense at all to have soldiers if you get cold feet about political violence?
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Apr 28, 2022 22:25
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