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Betting that Mike's loyalty to Gus is going to come from him changing tune and defending Nacho's papi from the Salamancas in some major way.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:45
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Chadzok posted:Betting that Mike's loyalty to Gus is going to come from him changing tune and defending Nacho's papi from the Salamancas in some major way. yeah i think theres a decent chance of this
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Apr 28, 2022 21:51
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The seething hatred that Nacho unleashed on them before he died; Gus saw that and knew that he truly hosed up. He lost a bro.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:54
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Chadzok posted:The seething hatred that Nacho unleashed on them before he died; Gus saw that and knew that he truly hosed up. He lost a bro. "This is a man.... who would have cleaned the ovens to my satisfaction on the first attempt....  "
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Apr 28, 2022 22:06
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something has to change for Gus to think fear is a bad motivator cause so far it seems to be the best thing for him without a close second
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Apr 28, 2022 22:07
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I think it may just be that Gus told Walt he doesn't believe it's a good motivator because he didn't think it was (for Walt) and decided that's what Walt needed him to say. He does try it later
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Apr 28, 2022 22:14
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Gus didn't get Nacho to do any of that stuff last episode, that was all Mike
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Apr 28, 2022 22:15
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skipmyseashells posted:something has to change for Gus to think fear is a bad motivator cause so far it seems to be the best thing for him without a close second He didn't really decide fear is a bad motivator. A few episodes before giving that line, he murders Victor in front of Jesse and Walt in order to terrify them (just like he kills Arturo right in front of Nacho). A few episodes afterward, he gives Walt the "I will kill your wife, I will kill your son, I will kill your infant daughter" speech (just like he has Victor visit Nacho's dad). christmas boots posted:I think it may just be that Gus told Walt he doesn't believe it's a good motivator because he didn't think it was (for Walt) and decided that's what Walt needed him to say. He does try it later He doesn't say it to Walt, he says it to Mike. [quote] Mike: If you want this guy to produce again, why not just tell him? You're the only thing that stands between him and an axe to the head. Gus: I do not believe fear to be an effective motivator. I want investment. For now, I'm simply interested in time frame. He will live for the foreseeable future, yes? [\quote] But I think you're right that we have to understand Gus's refusal to scare Walt into production as totally grounded in the specific case of how Gus thinks Walt might react to learning the cousins are after him. Maybe Walt calls the cops, or tries to flee with his family, or collaborates with Gus until the cousins are no longer a threat and then turns on Gus. Gus doesn't want to risk any of those scenarios so he thinks appealing to Walt's greed and insecurity is a safer bet. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Apr 28, 2022 |
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Apr 28, 2022 22:18
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Tbh I don't think Gus would kill a baby. Like not because of a moral thing, I just don't think he'd bother.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:22
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He would if the last name Salmenaca
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Apr 28, 2022 22:23
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christmas boots posted:I think it may just be that Gus told Walt he doesn't believe it's a good motivator because he didn't think it was (for Walt) and decided that's what Walt needed him to say. He does try it later I WILL KEEL YOUR INFANT DAAUTER A nice bit of symbolism from the 2nd(?) episode: Gus' guys sneak in wearing clean suits and drill into Nacho's safe with proper safecracking gear, only for the cartel to come in behind them and just lay a giant angle grinder on the new safe for an hour until the door is just gone.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:24
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Gaius Marius posted:He would if the last name Salmenaca Yeah, lol I almost went back and made an edit because he totally would
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Apr 28, 2022 22:25
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At least in Walt's case fear was an extremely ineffective motivator since it just lead Walt to believe he'd inevitably be killed by Gus if he didn't take him out first.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:40
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Nep-Nep posted:At least in Walt's case fear was an extremely ineffective motivator since it just lead Walt to believe he'd inevitably be killed by Gus if he didn't take him out first. There really isn't a good way to manage someone like Walt. He should have trusted his instincts and ignored Gale
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Apr 28, 2022 22:57
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He should've given him a sad handjob
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Apr 28, 2022 22:58
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christmas boots posted:There really isn't a good way to manage someone like Walt. He should have trusted his instincts and ignored Gale Gus probably dies sooner since the whole plan was still to manufacture conflict between himself and the cartel to lead to the compromise that lets him get close enough to kill Eladio, and I don't think Gale would have had as much success as Jesse at getting them out of there. Maybe Gus should've just stuck to the chicken.
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Apr 28, 2022 23:17
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moist turtleneck posted:Gus didn't get Nacho to do any of that stuff last episode, that was all Mike Yeah, that is actually a good point. Gus got everything he wanted because Nacho trusted Mike enough to see things through. I hope there's more to it than that, though, I still wanna see Gus get burned even if I know he's gonna be fine by the time he invites Hurricane Walt into his business. Civilized Fishbot posted:A few episodes before giving that line, he murders Victor in front of Jesse and Walt in order to terrify them (just like he kills Arturo right in front of Nacho). Is there any reason to think that was Gus' actual intention? That's Walt's interpretation of events, which rarely lines up with the truth. I always took it as a rare flash of temperament; Gus was fuckin pissed and he couldn't take it out on Walt or Jesse, and here comes Victor, fuckin up an expensive cook and acting too big for his britches right when Gus is in a real murdering mood. Plus I will continue to maintain that Gus was genuinely attracted to, if not in an actual relationship with, Gale, and he had just learned that the one person he actually cared about had just been murdered.
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Apr 28, 2022 23:20
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I think he killed Victor because he saw the episode where Nacho dies and thought "boy that victor is a smug little prick I hope I get to kill him one day"
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Apr 28, 2022 23:26
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He killed victor because he was seen at the crime scene where Gale was killed. He specifically killed him in front of Walt and Jesse to send them a message that he is not loving around.
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Apr 28, 2022 23:28
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Nah he killed him because he was cooking while committing the heinous crime of not being Walter White or Jesse.
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Apr 28, 2022 23:43
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Plus I will continue to maintain that Gus was genuinely attracted to, if not in an actual relationship with, Gale, and he had just learned that the one person he actually cared about had just been murdered.
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Apr 28, 2022 23:48
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Last Chance posted:He killed victor because he was seen at the crime scene where Gale was killed. He specifically killed him in front of Walt and Jesse to send them a message that he is not loving around. It's this. There was artists renditions of him at the cop station. Too risky for such a big operation to keep him alive. Putting the fear of Gus into Walt and Jesse was an added bonus. Trust me, I've run gigantic underground meth labs before. Chadzok fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Apr 29, 2022 |
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Apr 29, 2022 00:08
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:. It's also Jesse's interpretation, who turns out to have a pretty good handle on how Gus thinks. Killing Victor was a matter of security because he was now a murder suspect. Killing Victor in front of Walt and Jesse like that was fear-as-motivator.
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Apr 29, 2022 01:03
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In retrospect, powerful people setting themselves ablaze because of petty personal grudges is a pretty good thesis for this whole universe.
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Apr 29, 2022 04:04
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There's also the context about how the particular fear they're discussing in that scene wouldn't be a good motivator. The axe hanging over his head is from the cousins, as in a fear of the Cartel coming in and icing Walt's rear end. I can see how that wouldn't be an ideal motivator for Walt in Gus' eyes, and it also makes him more unpredictable and harder to control in general. If he thinks he can be killed by the cartel at any moment, what's stopping him from taking his family and his money and running, especially if he's more afraid of the cartel than he is of Gus (since Gus had been in 100% cool boss mode up to that point). Now, fear of Gus himself is a whole different situation. Still the downsides of unpredictability, but I bet in Gus' mind those weekly quotas are getting hit every time in a way that Walt panicking about the Cartel having it out for him probably doesn't. It's also important that Walt's coming across as slightly edgier Gale until he kills Gus' drug dealers. Once that happens Gus wants to wash his hands of Walt ASAP, but until then he certainly appeared to be a useful tool to Gus and had a proven track record of being able to be manipulated by Gus into doing the cooking work that he wants him to do. The shame of it all is that if Walt had been let in on Gus' plans more when they met to talk about how Walt put together Gus' plan with Hank and the cousins, I think they could've had a nice team-up going that would've been terrible for the show but would've made my "Walt hangs out with Don Eladio poolside in the 'Salud' episode" dreams come true. Maybe Walt opens up about how he brought in Jesse because he needed to pay Jesse to make sure he didn't sue his brother in law, maybe Gus in turn lays down the law properly and the kid doesn't get killed to really piss Jesse off, and everything works out good for at least some of the evil characters on the show. On reflecting about BB, I feel like the show certainly wants us to think Gus had the kid killed (and that's probably the intent of the writers), but that just feels like such an extreme and risky step to take. I can also guarantee you that when Mike's giving the no half measures speech to Walt, he has no idea a kid's about to be killed because no way he lets that fly. By the time he's in Breaking Bad he's compromised himself enough that he'll clean up all sorts of horrible stuff after the fact, but I'm pretty drat sure he'd be taking steps to keep kids from being killed if he knows they're in danger. Now he does want Walt to give up on Jesse during half measure, but he doesn't know somethings about to go down that'll really set Jesse off. I think the drug dealers just didn't like being called into their boss' office like that, felt they were untouchable, and iced the kid. Gus runs a drat smooth operation, but I'm sure mistakes still happen or orders aren't followed just the way the boss wants. Gus could've ordered a hit on the kid and left Mike out of the loop on it, but again it just seems like way too extreme of a step to take. If anything, this seems like the perfect time for an old fashioned kidnapping with some effort put in to create a believable cover story for Jesse to eat up. Gus bought a drat hangar to house the people he needed to build the Superlab, he could surely rig up a simple jail cell to keep the kid in for at least awhile. Amyway, long story short BB and BCS are both awesome because their stories provide lots of fodder for my overactive brain.
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Apr 29, 2022 05:52
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Chuck was a dick. But he was absolutely right about the monkey with a machine gun thing, I don’t think there’s a fictional character who misuses the law as much as Jimmy McGill.
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Apr 29, 2022 06:31
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Dumbass
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Apr 29, 2022 06:32
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Chuck was the monkey with a machine gun. Jimmy is a loving hero
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Apr 29, 2022 06:32
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Golden Bee posted:Chuck was a dick. But he was absolutely right about the monkey with a machine gun thing, I don’t think there’s a fictional character who misuses the law as much as Jimmy McGill. Typically (but not exclusively) out of necessity to succeed and overcome the obstacles in front of him, though. I feel like in this season we are seeing a lot of reluctance from Jimmy, although it is unclear if the reason for his second guessing is unwillingness to see Kim dragged into it all (she is dragging herself, obv) or just general morality questions. If Chuck had been supportive, the events of the timeline would be completely different. In any timeline, he would likely have very little opinion on ethics.
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Apr 29, 2022 06:50
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Even in the first episode, Jimmy can't resist becoming part of a grift when he sees one. I agree with the readings about his having a need for or addiction to risk-taking and deception. I don't think that means "Saul Goodman" was inevitable, but it's hard to imagine Jimmy staying out of trouble even when comfortably pursuing elder law.
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Apr 29, 2022 06:57
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I could definitely see a story where Gus comes to realize how much of an asset Nacho could have been if he had just treated him with a fraction of the respect he gives Mike, and where the Salamancas try to retaliate against a dead man by going after Papi. I don't see quite how it could be the big catalyst that makes Gus smarten up, but he might definitely have to burn some resources bodyguarding a decent man who wants nothing to do with any cartel goons. this is not a bad guess actually. gus sticking to his word and ensuring no harm comes to nacho's dad would go a long way in making mike loya— ...i was a page behind and this has already been said multiple times.
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Apr 29, 2022 07:42
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Hurting family members for leverage is much less effective when the person you’re leveraging is dead.
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Apr 29, 2022 08:04
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Nacho's Dad basically killed Nacho. He's like just go to the police like he's never ever ever seen a gangster film. also I swear Nacho's accent changed in his final speech
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Apr 29, 2022 08:58
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Golden Bee posted:Hurting family members for leverage is much less effective when the person you’re leveraging is dead. I'll be shocked if we ever see or hear from his dad again. They had their goodbye conversation, Nacho is dead, narratively that storyline is all tied up.
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Apr 29, 2022 09:07
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Oolb posted:Nacho's Dad basically killed Nacho. He's like just go to the police like he's never ever ever seen a gangster film. I don't think that's a very kind interpretation of Nacho's dad. No doubt Papa Varga is aware of how dangerous the cartel is, but he's still willing to turn down Hector Salamanca to his face in season 3 because he won't compromise on his values. That's also why he refuses to run away with Nacho in season 5, and tells Nacho to turn himself in. He knows he risks death, but won't let himself or his son lie to themselves.
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Apr 29, 2022 09:52
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Absolutely, I think it was last season he wrote off his poor son when he told him to get out of his house, he knew how bad it was going to get
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Apr 29, 2022 10:33
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Because Hector is, in fact, a twisted gently caress, it's entirely within the realm of possibility that he orders something done to his Nacho's dad. Would it ever make a difference? No. Does Hector suck real bad? Yes.
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Apr 29, 2022 10:59
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BabyRyoga posted:Typically (but not exclusively) out of necessity to succeed and overcome the obstacles in front of him, though. I feel like in this season we are seeing a lot of reluctance from Jimmy, although it is unclear if the reason for his second guessing is unwillingness to see Kim dragged into it all (she is dragging herself, obv) or just general morality questions. Jimmy's been showing a heck of a lot of reluctance to Kim's scheming and I think it's at least somewhat because he feels Kim can't weather the blowback as well as he could. He's beaten disbarment, he's walked out of the desert alive, he could turn to some other hustle or side gig if he needed to, but in his eyes Kim losing her license would cost her everything she's ever worked for. In the framing of the show, law is Kim's life, it's what occupies almost all of her time: talking about cases, talking with clients, researching cases, etc. Jimmy wants a cornerstone of their relationship to be a joint practice, even, law is a major part of what holds the two together for him. Rolled into that is my interpretation for why he's going along with it: he's still so afraid of losing Kim. He had a near-total breakdown the second he thought she was ending their relationship a few seasons back. Yeah he wants to do it, he enjoys the risk, but there's little moments where you can tell if it was him on his own he might've backed off and reevaluated the situation. He loves being with her, he loves her, and he's putting aside a little too much (in my opinion) of his own comfort to keep her happy and engaged. It's a realistic kind of friction in relationships that starts off small and potentially blows up into a huge monster and I am here for it.
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Apr 29, 2022 11:03
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Taskmaster on youtube just put up the full episodes of Kurgenbongerbefalagon. The Norway one.
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Apr 29, 2022 11:14
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The big tragedy in Jimmy's character is how much he wants to be a positive work relationship, first with his brother and then with his wife. And it keeps going completely wrong. Heck, he even goes above and beyond with both Jessy and Walt and probably many other clients. Jimmy's need to be a part of people's lives and schemes keeps burning him again and again, it could have been a great character trait if he could stop himself from slipping.
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Apr 29, 2022 11:24
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