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Babe Magnet
Jun 2, 2008

as someone who's had to touch the textures for modding purposes they are indeed way too loving big, especially for the zoom level you're going to be playing at 90% of the time. The detail is nice but most of the textures can easily be cut in half dimension and file size-wise and no one would ever be able to tell the difference.

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GruntyThrst
Oct 9, 2007

*clang*

My kingdom for Dwarf Fortress level inventory management and job assignments. This is a mess

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
Yeah the crafting workflow is absolute garbage, I don't know of any mods that make it very much better. The whole concept suffers terribly from having to make gobs of containers for everything and having each worker's job setup limited to specific containers/specific benches.

Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008
Are the cel shaded graphics mods more user friendly or do they still require a lot of footwork to get operating?

Grevlek
Jan 11, 2004

GruntyThrst posted:

My kingdom for Dwarf Fortress level inventory management and job assignments. This is a mess

Oof when Dwarf Fortress is a more sane and usable UI.

GruntyThrst
Oct 9, 2007

*clang*

Flesh Forge posted:

Yeah the crafting workflow is absolute garbage, I don't know of any mods that make it very much better. The whole concept suffers terribly from having to make gobs of containers for everything and having each worker's job setup limited to specific containers/specific benches.

Even just a general hauling job would work wonders. Something you can toggle on and off I guess would be the most in-line way to handle it

silentsnack
Mar 19, 2009

Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current President of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality.

GruntyThrst posted:

Even just a general hauling job would work wonders. Something you can toggle on and off I guess would be the most in-line way to handle it

Or maybe past a certain point you can upgrade your buildings to abstract out the entire production chain, so like instead of having to have 5 guys collectively spend 5 minutes dinking around making all the intermediary copper and iron bullshit that goes into making a repair kit or whatever (plus 2~4 minutes of meaningless busywork hauling crap from A to B to C to D) your roboticist just furiously twiddles his thumbs at the workbench for 7~8 minutes and makes a kit from nothingness.

GruntyThrst
Oct 9, 2007

*clang*

There's even an example of that in the game, with the last stone mining tech being a hybrid that both auto mines and builds building materials.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
abstract container inventories as a shared pool, for player owned containers

GruntyThrst
Oct 9, 2007

*clang*

Flesh Forge posted:

abstract container inventories as a shared pool, for player owned containers

Every single game that has containers and crafting/building should do this unless automatic storage like that is part of the intended game design. I'm tired of dealing with separate chests.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
Yeah it's neat for the thief style gameplay, searching thru locked containers but gently caress that sifting thru 25 of your own dumpsters looking for where you put the stack of skins or whatever

Defenistrator
Mar 27, 2007
Ask me about my burritos
I'm super confused on imprisonment and abduction. Is there anyone that pays ransoms for people you kidnap? Is there anything else besides locking someone in a cage you can do with people you kidnap?

Clark Nova
Jul 18, 2004

You can turn them in to the police station at a hostile faction for a bounty, or sell them into slavery, or use them for combat training. There are mods that’ll let you recruit anyone you can abduct

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
There's also tactical considerations like anyone KOed held in your arms can't stand up so one form of crowd control is a bunch of assassination ninjas who just KO and pick up half the enemy force and put them down one by one when the other half of the force is disabled.

Defenistrator
Mar 27, 2007
Ask me about my burritos

Clark Nova posted:

You can turn them in to the police station at a hostile faction for a bounty, or sell them into slavery, or use them for combat training. There are mods that’ll let you recruit anyone you can abduct

How do you combat train with them?

Defenistrator
Mar 27, 2007
Ask me about my burritos

zedprime posted:

There's also tactical considerations like anyone KOed held in your arms can't stand up so one form of crowd control is a bunch of assassination ninjas who just KO and pick up half the enemy force and put them down one by one when the other half of the force is disabled.

That's a great idea!

Clark Nova
Jul 18, 2004

Defenistrator posted:

How do you combat train with them?

heal them up, give them whatever equipment you like, then let them out of their cage and wail on them, preferably 1 on 1 with one of your dudes for maximum experience. This is considerably easier once you build a base and can set up an enclosed arena area. Someone else can probably give a more detailed explanation on how to set it up - I tried it out once and got bored

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Everyone should be wielding the shittiest weapons possible and wearing good heavy armour (including the prisoner).

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo
1v1 is a pretty slow way to train anything until you're really high level and need big enemies to get any xp

staberind
Feb 20, 2008

but i dont wanna be a spaceship
Fun Shoe
I made a mod that had little cubes that trained peons and gave a little energy or resources when it was used, it was rediculously cheaty but gave me a good idea of how to use the fcs.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
I was kicking around the idea of teaching myself the mod editor by taking the mod that lets you use AI cores to build a device to fast train people and making it tougher to use. Like, each draining 100 power and needing to be fed additional AI cores while in use.

Sachant
Apr 27, 2011

Bogart posted:

I was kicking around the idea of teaching myself the mod editor by taking the mod that lets you use AI cores to build a device to fast train people and making it tougher to use. Like, each draining 100 power and needing to be fed additional AI cores while in use.

I don't think you can make training stations consume a fuel item, but I'm not certain. The rest sounds feasible though. AFAIK you can only have one station train one skill though.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames

Sachant posted:

I don't think you can make training stations consume a fuel item, but I'm not certain. The rest sounds feasible though. AFAIK you can only have one station train one skill though.

Well, if I treat it like a crafting station that inputs AI Cores and spits out nothing (or maybe broken AI Cores) that has the side benefit of training skills quickly, I think that could work. But yeah, it'd mean copy-pasting it per-skill, like the original mod does.

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate


Defenistrator posted:

I'm super confused on imprisonment and abduction. Is there anyone that pays ransoms for people you kidnap? Is there anything else besides locking someone in a cage you can do with people you kidnap?

Forgot what thread I clicked on for a moment

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
Looks like the devs are doing a silly Easter event. From a clean safe, get three types of monster egg from nests and bring them back to a store to sell. Winner gets some merch. Silly but hey. Another chance to boot up Kenshi.

staberind
Feb 20, 2008

but i dont wanna be a spaceship
Fun Shoe

Bogart posted:

I was kicking around the idea of teaching myself the mod editor by taking the mod that lets you use AI cores to build a device to fast train people and making it tougher to use. Like, each draining 100 power and needing to be fed additional AI cores while in use.

Its actually really easy to use if you have ever played around with the elder scrolls/fallout official tool, I do reccommend backing up whatever game you are playing and making wacky mistakes to get the hang of things, morover, people tend to start with mods making stuff easier, then they reach a tipping point and make the game harder, for intance ai cores, or some other extra steps, to get the result that feels less "cheaty" inasmuch as you can cheat a single player game.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.
I’m just befuddled way there aren’t any other games like Kenshi.

You’d think there would be more developers salivating on the idea of a “sandbox RPG”. Both of the freedom and tech pushing aspects, and the (unfortunately) near limitless potential to sell DLC.

Like imagine a Final Fantasy game with the Kenshi template.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

punk rebel ecks posted:

I’m just befuddled way there aren’t any other games like Kenshi.

You’d think there would be more developers salivating on the idea of a “sandbox RPG”. Both of the freedom and tech pushing aspects, and the (unfortunately) near limitless potential to sell DLC.

Like imagine a Final Fantasy game with the Kenshi template.

Final Fantasy games are literally created with the exact opposite goals from Kenshi, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell Squeenix would ever try to adopt the Kenshi model for a game.

Like the whole point of Final Fantasy since FF2 has been to take you through a story focused experience first and foremost with any sort of sandbox being an accident if any aspect was ever included.

Sokani
Jul 20, 2006



Bison

punk rebel ecks posted:

I’m just befuddled way there aren’t any other games like Kenshi.

Kenshi barely works, it's a miracle the game is fun at all.

Are they still making a Kenshi 2?

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Zore posted:

Final Fantasy games are literally created with the exact opposite goals from Kenshi, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell Squeenix would ever try to adopt the Kenshi model for a game.

Like the whole point of Final Fantasy since FF2 has been to take you through a story focused experience first and foremost with any sort of sandbox being an accident if any aspect was ever included.

I know but maybe as one of their weird spin-offs.

Okay, Final Fantasy was a bad idea but you’d think there would be SOMETHING else besides just Kenshi.

Sokani posted:

Kenshi barely works, it's a miracle the game is fun at all.

Are they still making a Kenshi 2?

Yeah, we still get updates.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
I mean there is a lot of stuff that ticks similar boxes like Mount and Blade, Dwarf Fortress or Rimworld :shrug:. They obviously all play incredibly differently but at their core are games about playing in an RPG sandbox to greater or lesser degrees.

Babe Magnet
Jun 2, 2008

I don't think you could make a game like Kenshi anymore, like, on purpose. It seems to be too much of a product of its time, just a decade-long war against an out-of-date engine by a single dude (who very slowly added more team members after like 9 years, and even then they were mostly artists) who's openly admitted that part of his design philosophy is to hurt the player. No publisher would go near that lol.

You could imitate Kenshi all day long, it's easy enough to see the things that make it work and what people like about it, but I don't think I'm alone when I feel that, if I want cleaner, nicer, less jank Kenshi I'm just going to wait for Kenshi 2

e: I should also say that I don't even really want a cleaner, nicer, less jank Kenshi. I love this ugly broken game

Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Apr 29, 2022

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Babe Magnet posted:

who's openly admitted that part of his design philosophy is to hurt the player. No publisher would go near that lol.

From Software presents...Kenshi Souls.

Babe Magnet
Jun 2, 2008

At the end of the day From still puts a ton of thought into their balance and design, even if that thought is often wrong. The games are hard, but they're rarely unbalanced, and even more rarely unbalanced on purpose. I'm not saying Lo Fi don't put a lot of thought into their balance but you know Hunt was laughin it up when he came up with blood spiders.

And, also, to be fair, the Souls series is also a product of its time. They just did that thing where they release more than one game in two decades to build up good will lol. People hated Demon's Souls when it came out.

Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Apr 29, 2022

Sachant
Apr 27, 2011

Zore posted:

I mean there is a lot of stuff that ticks similar boxes like Mount and Blade, Dwarf Fortress or Rimworld :shrug:. They obviously all play incredibly differently but at their core are games about playing in an RPG sandbox to greater or lesser degrees.

Part of what's so interesting about Kenshi is its seamlessness. Like aside from a periodic loading pause there's no change in view/screen from walking into a town, leaving it, walking across the entire game world, building your own base, and so on. M&B, Rimworld, DF, and others (Starsector) all have that transition between levels of abstraction. I'd love to see another RTS/RPG hybrid like Kenshi that keeps to that same single level of simulation.

Babe Magnet
Jun 2, 2008

Yeah Kenshi is like M&B and Rimworld and Dwarf Fortress and all that because it's all those games at the same time... more or less. Kenshi is a sandbox but part of its charm is it's trying to be the most sandbox, and mostly succeeds. It's the kid playing with his toys wanting to make the Ultimate Video game that has all of the features of his favorite games and movies and you can go out and do them any time you want and also there are ninjas and dinosaurs, but that kid actually did it this time lol

Sachant
Apr 27, 2011

Yeah. I think the only thing I'd want to see more of is background simulation in the world. Kenshi fakes it with world states but if I went anywhere with Kenshi as a new game (and maybe Kenshi 2 will do this), it would be actually having wars between cities play out, traders actually trade, npc farmers actually farm and deliver food that towns eat, and so on.

Another entry in dreams.txt though.

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001


Zore posted:

I mean there is a lot of stuff that ticks similar boxes like Mount and Blade, Dwarf Fortress or Rimworld :shrug:. They obviously all play incredibly differently but at their core are games about playing in an RPG sandbox to greater or lesser degrees.

the Mount & Blade/Starsector formula seems so simple and so successful, I'm surprised no big money developer has tried it. Bannerlord's popularity is comparable to the Total War:Warhammer games despite coming from a much smaller studio and lacking a big name IP

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here

There's the "X" series of spaceship games, which hit a lot of the same notes if you view the ships as the characters.

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Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Flavahbeast posted:

the Mount & Blade/Starsector formula seems so simple and so successful, I'm surprised no big money developer has tried it. Bannerlord's popularity is comparable to the Total War:Warhammer games despite coming from a much smaller studio and lacking a big name IP

RPGs are notoriously buggy and hard to develop, and then so are sandbox games, so combining the two is a combined nightmare, and on top of that, studios want IP they can franchise, and IP means characters and stories that can be franchised. So the more money that gets invested the less that money is going to want to not have characters and stories and franchiseable IP

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