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mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Jaxyon posted:

I think student loan forgiveness is at least something that we can that hasn't been done already and that establishes a precedent on educational loans moving forward.

I think it's a terrible example of a signature policy for most of the reasons you gave. It's lovely, not enough, and is the dude who helped created it doing something too late to fix it.

That's why I have to laugh if that's the best he can come up with.

Colleges are probably salivating at the thought of telling gullible 17 & 18 year olds - don't worry about debt, the president has forgiven it once and he'll do it again!

Not far off from the georgetown law presentation about how to take out maximum student loans since the more the better due to PAYE

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Bishyaler
Dec 30, 2009
Megamarm

Jaxyon posted:

I've had "warm" bulbs that are indistinguishable from incandescents for at least 5 years.

Same. And recently I bought a smart bulb just to try it, any concerns about LEDs having the wrong spectrum can be solved with one of those. I set up a profile to change it to full-blast cool white in the morning and a dimmer warm white in the evening.

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Yeah, with advances in LEDs I think the main objection people have about not being able to get incandescents is that they have to pay $12 every 10 years, instead of $3 every year. ‘Cause, you know… they’re not smart.

TheIncredulousHulk
Sep 3, 2012

Kalit posted:

I'm confused, why do you think it's viewed as more of an embarrassing disaster than the ACA? The launch of the ACA was also absolutely atrocious.

If we use the metric of favorable/unfavorable ratings for both of these events, we have the following:
The ACA started off around 40% favorable and remained around there for the first year
https://www.kff.org/health-reform/poll-finding/5-charts-about-public-opinion-on-the-affordable-care-act-and-the-supreme-court/

Meanwhile, the withdrawal from Afghanistan overall has 58% approval weeks later in mid-September! Even if you narrow in the scope specifically to how the withdrawel was handled, you have an approval rating that's similar to the ACA's launch at 41%
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/573028-majority-of-voters-disapprove-of-execution-of-afghanistan-withdrawal/

Unfortunately, mid-September is the last polling I could find for the Afghanistan withdrawal. But I'm confused on why you're implying that it was more of an embarrassing disaster than the ACA was when it launched. If you have some evidence/data on why you think this, please let me know!

It was embarrassing because it damaged the idea of American military supremacy in its execution. The Taliban had to hold the door open for US personnel to leave. It would have gotten everyone captured or killed if the Taliban had been hostile. There was no footage of the ACA reproducing the fall of Saigon

This appearance of weakness is why Biden had them immediately drone strike "ISIS" but it turned out it was actually an aid worker and his family

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Jaxyon posted:

I've had "warm" bulbs that are indistinguishable from incandescents for at least 5 years.

I got 99 problems and a switch aint one

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Really, just lol if you aren't spending your evenings having your eyes wither to dust in the cool, comforting glow of your electronic devices.

Willa Rogers
Mar 11, 2005

Some crosstabs/results from this week's polling that I found to be notable.

Quinnipac:




YouGov:



YouGov also polled a bunch of conspiracy theories like "vaccines cause autism" and "democrats run child sex rings" that are kind of funny. You can find them here.

Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Apr 28, 2022

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1519687947771170817

gotta say, this juxtaposed with the discourse about student loan forgiveness is not the best look! :whitewater:

The Sean
Apr 17, 2005

Am I handsome now?


A big flaming stink posted:

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1519687947771170817

gotta say, this juxtaposed with the discourse about student loan forgiveness is not the best look! :whitewater:

Yes, nearly the same amount of money would be equal to 10k being wiped from all of those who currently have student loan debt.

Edit, oops.

46.6b > 43b so yeah Ukraine funding would be larger than domestic relief that I mentioned above.

I imagine the dem strat is to campaign on how republicans are russians and so by the transitive property dems are spending all this money to fight russia (instead of helping voters). I hope this campaign strategy works instead (no, I don't).

edit: my math is wrong. i will admit when i've made a mistake.

The Sean fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Apr 28, 2022

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

Mellow Seas posted:

Yeah, with advances in LEDs I think the main objection people have about not being able to get incandescents is that they have to pay $12 every 10 years, instead of $3 every year. ‘Cause, you know… they’re not smart.

They've been < $5 a bulb for years now. People just stupid:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-100-Watt-Equivalent-A19-Non-Dimmable-Energy-Saving-LED-Light-Bulb-Daylight-5000K-2-Pack-462002/206923041

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

The Sean posted:

Yes, nearly the same amount of money would be equal to 10k being wiped from all of those who currently have student loan debt.

Edit, oops.

46.6b > 43b so yeah Ukraine funding would be larger than domestic relief that I mentioned above.

Not sure about that figure for loan forgiveness...

CNBC posted:

For instance, higher education expert Mark Kantrowitz suggests that forgiving student debt for those who owe less than $10,000 (as opposed to eliminating $10,000 in student debt for all borrowers) could be more cost-efficient.

“Forgiving $10,000 in federal student loan debt per borrower would cost $377 billion and would eliminate all federal student loan debt for about a third of borrowers. If loan forgiveness was limited to just borrowers who owe $10,000 or less, the cost would be $75 billion,” estimates Kantrowitz.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/experts-weigh-in-on-10000-in-student-debt-forgiveness.html

(As somebody with significantly more than $10k in debt, Kantrowitz can go gently caress himself. But even his terrible version still costs twice as much as the Ukraine aid.)

LorneReams posted:

They've been < $5 a bulb for years now.
Man, really shows how often you have to replace them. I had no idea they had gotten so cheap.

Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Apr 28, 2022

The Sean
Apr 17, 2005

Am I handsome now?


https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1155305122911723526

haha the link is literally "page not found"

also the pell grant is something that people do not have to pay back.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
Biden finally spoke publicly about his student loan plans.

- Confirmed the earlier reports on his comments to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.
- Will make an announcement "in the next couple weeks" and not months.
- Won't be $50k, but he is willing to go higher than his $10k from the campaign.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1519764639013343233

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

The Sean posted:

also the pell grant is something that people do not have to pay back.

Since Pell grants are need-based, isn't that more like saying that you're using it as an identifier, like how we use 'free or reduced lunch' to let people qualify for other benefits.

The Sean
Apr 17, 2005

Am I handsome now?


Mellow Seas posted:

Not sure about that figure for loan forgiveness...

https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics

4.3m people have student loan debt. 4.3 million x 10 000 = 43b.

Devor posted:

Since Pell grants are need-based, isn't that more like saying that you're using it as an identifier, like how we use 'free or reduced lunch' to let people qualify for other benefits.

Yes, correct.

How are u
May 19, 2005

by Azathoth

The Sean posted:

haha the link is literally "page not found"

Would you expect Kamala Harris to keep her Presidential Campaign Website up and operational considering she suspended her Presidential campaign on December 3rd 2019 and she is currently one year and several months into her tenure as Vice President of the United States?

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

The Sean posted:

https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics

4.3m people have student loan debt. 4.3 million x 10 000 = 43b.

Yes, correct.

That's 43 million and not 4.3 million.

The Sean
Apr 17, 2005

Am I handsome now?


Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

That's 43 million and not 4.3 million.

Yep. I'm wrong here.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
Who is this bill even for?

https://twitter.com/marianne_levine/status/1519772552192835584

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!



Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Biden finally spoke publicly about his student loan plans.

- Confirmed the earlier reports on his comments to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.
- Will make an announcement "in the next couple weeks" and not months.
- Won't be $50k, but he is willing to go higher than his $10k from the campaign.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1519764639013343233

cool, i will continue not voting for him then :thumbsup:

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Probably just giving them cover to say "DEMOCRATS LETTING CRACKHEADS RUN WILD IN THE STREETS" while having their own stupid, nonsense bill to point to that they can claim Democrats are "overstepping," which barely acknowledges racist sentencing is wrong and massively unpopular, but sort of does.

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

cool, i will continue not voting for him then :thumbsup:


(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
Glad were dicking around with how to deal with the crippling costs of higher education right now instead of having voted for all those radical crazy far left candidates that wanted to make it free. The returns on a Bachelor's degree, while better than those without one, are becoming increasingly not worth it. Someone said it's an average of a million dollars over a lifetime and I'll take their word for it. But it's being outpaced by inflation, medical costs, housing expenses and, yes, the education costs themselves.

There's also the hidden cost savings of knowing how to do poo poo by yourself that doesn't require higher education.

Being able to fix your own car, work on your own home, build poo poo, repair appliances and all sorts of stuff like that saves money, time, adds to quality of life and comes with the fact that you know the quality of the work that was done or how much the parts cost. I personally think that practical skills like this will actually be in greater demand moving forwards than things like marketing or business degrees as more and more people become forced to be more self reliant. I could be wrong but I wish I had gotten my degree and training in a more hands on area. WE're always going to need electricians, plumbers, repairmen, etc. Hell, we're always going to need sanitation workers for that matter.

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
It's pretty hard to put the value of a degree as a hard-and-fast figure.

I got one degree that was basically worthless (economically, that is - I learned so much cool poo poo) and I worked for a pittance for three years in temping and food service before becoming indefinitely unemployed from the Great Recession. So I went back to get a different bachelor's in a more in-demand field, and now recruiters burn down my phone line the second I put my resume online. Hell, sometimes when I've had it taken down for months they still find me.

The caveat is, engineering sucks, and very few people are well-suited to it, even among people who are capable of performing the coursework. We need a way for people who don't have the proper subset of super-in-demand STEM degrees to have the experience getting a new job that I do, because it's great. The work itself, ehhh, I guess some people like it. I can imagine a job in my field that I would enjoy, but there's about 1000 soul-crushers posted for each one that really appeals to me.

Willa Rogers
Mar 11, 2005

From MorningConsult's newest survey on inflation & supply chains:

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
Most of the poo poo I see is for sales. But I mean, 75% of the country can't just sell poo poo.

Someone has to design, build, fix and manufacture the things being sold.

When I see these job listings, most of them are like "we need someone to convince people to give us more money" which, OK sure, but there's a lot more to business than just getting someone to agree to buy something. You have to create and deliver the poo poo. Sales, sales, sales...

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

BiggerBoat posted:

Most of the poo poo I see is for sales. But I mean, 75% of the country can't just sell poo poo.

Someone has to design, build, fix and manufacture the things being sold.

When I see these job listings, most of them are like "we need someone to convince people to give us more money" which, OK sure, but there's a lot more to business than just getting someone to agree to buy something. You have to create and deliver the poo poo. Sales, sales, sales...

Sales jobs are high turnover even for people who love doing sales, and they tend to be fairly generic due to general perception that if you can sell one thing you can sell anything. Sounds like a nightmare to me either way, but I expect they're over-represented in job listings compared to the number of people actually doing sales at a given moment. Though they also don't automate as smoothly as a lot of other jobs so I imagine their percentage increases with time too.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

BiggerBoat posted:

Glad were dicking around with how to deal with the crippling costs of higher education right now instead of having voted for all those radical crazy far left candidates that wanted to make it free. The returns on a Bachelor's degree, while better than those without one, are becoming increasingly not worth it. Someone said it's an average of a million dollars over a lifetime and I'll take their word for it. But it's being outpaced by inflation, medical costs, housing expenses and, yes, the education costs themselves.

There's also the hidden cost savings of knowing how to do poo poo by yourself that doesn't require higher education.

Being able to fix your own car, work on your own home, build poo poo, repair appliances and all sorts of stuff like that saves money, time, adds to quality of life and comes with the fact that you know the quality of the work that was done or how much the parts cost. I personally think that practical skills like this will actually be in greater demand moving forwards than things like marketing or business degrees as more and more people become forced to be more self reliant. I could be wrong but I wish I had gotten my degree and training in a more hands on area. WE're always going to need electricians, plumbers, repairmen, etc. Hell, we're always going to need sanitation workers for that matter.

It's an average of a million dollars difference against those without a degree, both groups are going to be hit by all those things (though I'm not sure if that's a million on top of the loans admittedly, or if it considers payments; who posted that originally?), and degree or no you can always learn to be more handy. I certainly have after buying my home, anyway. 99% of the time you don't need that plumber or electrician.

VitalSigns
Sep 3, 2011

Kalit posted:

Thank you for that explanation. But I’m now confused on why you think a $10-50k student loan forgiveness would count? Isn’t that the exact same thing with regards to “half-assedly righting a historical wrong in the worst possible way"?

College affordability should have been something addressed a long time ago. And instead of actually fixing the problem, by loan forgiveness and making college affordable, this just forgives some loans for people who currently have them. No regards is given to those who will end up being in a worse position in the future when they go to college and need to take out even larger loans. Or those who still will have a mountain of debt after the $10-50k.
Forgive all new student debt again next year then tell congress this is going to keep happening until they can write legislation to solve the problem.


Kalit posted:

Also….if you don’t think Biden is also partially responsible for current student debt…I don’t know what to say
Didn't he champion the law to make it nondischargable in bankruptcy unlike every other kind of debt. Seems like that's partial responsibility right there

Oracle
Oct 9, 2004

RBA Starblade posted:

degree or no you can always learn to be more handy. I certainly have after buying my home, anyway. 99% of the time you don't need that plumber or electrician.
But the trick is knowing which time falls in that 1%, and it is a very expensive mistake to make if you're wrong.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Oracle posted:

But the trick is knowing which time falls in that 1%, and it is a very expensive mistake to make if you're wrong.

Well that's true

Protip: if it involves your fusebox, it's always

Kalit
Nov 6, 2006

The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

VitalSigns posted:

Didn't he champion the law to make it nondischargable in bankruptcy unlike every other kind of debt. Seems like that's partial responsibility right there

That was my point. Jaxyon pointed out partial responsibility for getting involved with Afghanistan for what seemed to be part of the reason it’s not considered a “signature achievement”. But then didn’t say anything about partial responsibility being a factor when stating loan forgiveness being the possible “signature achievement”

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

RBA Starblade posted:

you can always learn to be more handy. I certainly have after buying my home, anyway. 99% of the time you don't need that plumber or electrician.

I've experienced different results with my endeavors

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>
I would extremely, extremely not suggest trying to do anything electrical yourself for reasons ranging from 1) you will electrocute yourself to 2) you will burn your house down to 3) you can actually gently caress up your electricity to the extent poo poo you plug in will not work properly.

plumbing is pretty similar, though it's less likely to kill you. you probably don't need one to unclog a sink and can save money there, but for anything beyond that you almost definitely want a plumber to do the plumbing work. Water damage is extremely expensive to deal with, at best and that's before getting into what happens if you gently caress up with sewage

source: built a lot of buildings

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>
on the other hand you can save hella money by skipping the engineer and the architect 99% of the time

Freakazoid_
Jul 5, 2013


Buglord
I made the switch to led bulbs about a decade ago when washington state subsidized them. Costco still sells packs of 6 60-watt equivalent bulbs, both cool and warm light, for like 8 bucks. Even if incandescent lights are still cheaper, it's not enough cheaper that it matters for most of my fixtures.

There are certain lamps that can cause LEDs to break early and I'm not sure what the common thread among them is. Back in my previous house, we had a three-bulb lamp above the bathroom mirror that replaced an old two-bulb lamp. It would cause our LED bulbs to burn out twice a year. In my current home we also have a three-bulb lamp that also burns out the bulbs but not quite as fast, probably once a year. I also have a tall lamp given to me by my grandma, I think she bought it in the 90's, it's a three phase lamp and while I use three phase LED bulbs on it, they still break every year.

Willa Rogers posted:

From MorningConsult's newest survey on inflation & supply chains:



Oh what a coincidence, it shot up 9% a month after the covid relief program ended.

I think I'm having posting deja vu.

FizFashizzle
Mar 30, 2005







Gop wants cawthorn dead.

https://twitter.com/mikesington/status/1519827471138394117?s=21&t=TSq8FOntOLoE8UJfOJOccw

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

those "suggestive" messages read to me like really stupid edgelord bro "humor"

e: also they're from 2018

Seems like they're desperate to smear Cawthorn, I assume his comments about coke-fueled parties and lingerie pics at da club are undermining their culture war bullshit.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Apr 29, 2022

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

Harold Fjord posted:

I maintain that this is not constitutional and if it is we are going to be seeing it used to debt bomb cities in every red state. I'm rather surprised it hasn't already.

It's no different from disincorporating a town or village: any remaining assets and debts the dissolving jurisdiction held are typically inherited by the jurisdiction that contained it, typically the county. Special districts fall under the same rules. This all draws from pretty old legal concepts, many of which predate the US Constitution and have been accepted by the Supreme Court.

In general, it doesn't make much sense to try to hurt cities by disestablishing other jurisdictions in the same county. In fact, it's just the opposite - during the era of white flight, many new towns were incorporated to ensure that they stayed free of the cities' governments and keep their taxes out of the hands of the cities.

There are currently 1,845 special districts in Florida, and 79 of them are contained in more than one county. It's a pretty common administrative division. The thing is that special districts are usually created because they're useful in ensuring the effective provision of various public services, and therefore it's typically a very bad idea to arbitrarily dissolve them like this.

For example, there are actually six special districts affected by the Disney spat, because the legislature didn't specifically name Reedy Creek in the law - it targeted a set of conditions that Reedy Creek meets and most (but not all) other special districts don't. The other five special districts affected are a good example of what special districts are usually used for:
  • Sunshine Water Control District
  • Eastpoint Water and Sewer District
  • Bradford County Development Authority
  • Hamilton County Development Authority
  • Marion County Law Library

Most of these districts use the independence and autonomy granted to them to more effectively provide various public services, and dissolving them will be fairly disruptive. In practice, we can expect the FL legislature to pass new laws reestablishing them immediately and cleanly transitioning the assets/debts to the reconstituted versions.

This isn't to say that the Florida law is necessarily legally sound - there's been some legal murmurs about the exact conditions of the bonds that Florida authorized Reedy Creek to issue. But in general, it's known to be constitutional for a state to dissolve a special district, it's constitutionally required for the district's debt to be inherited

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre
Incandescent bulbs handle power fluctuations a lot better then LEDs so bad/old circuits and dirty power sources can kill them fairly quickly.

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PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010
if it was a normal hetro cheating they would be fine with it right?

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