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Bust Rodd posted:FWIW, your first paragraph is basically exactly how one would describe a “group hug” deck, so that really seems like what you meant when you said “chaos”, which doesn’t really have anything to do with what your talking about. It’s not your fault, but those terms have very specific meanings in this format, which is why some of us balked at “chaos”. Gotta play Zedruu like a bad combo deck and give people poo poo they don't want, like Thought Lash, Delusions of Grandeur, Pyromancer's Swath, Transcendence, and Psychic Vortex.
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Apr 29, 2022 18:30
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Thanks Bust for the breakdown  those are all really great points that I’ll read up on. Also giving people stuff they don’t want seems cool if done right too haha
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Apr 29, 2022 18:59
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Knot My President! posted:Thanks Bust for the breakdown Please don't take anything I've ever said seriously.
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Apr 29, 2022 19:58
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Giving people Delusions of Grandeur was the OG zesty tech, Batterypowered, don’t sell yourself short! Also really funny to donate a more recent card, Experimental Frenzy, and lock people out of their hands! Getting to sleeve up 20 bad permanents to give to other players is the dream.
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Apr 29, 2022 20:03
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Knot My President! posted:My end goal is to make a deck that plays with specific decks my friends play that makes sure games don’t last forever. My shower thought is figuring out what pieces their decks are missing due to color restrictions and deck optimization that bar them from going huge, and at the same time make sure it’s equitable for everyone so it doesn’t feel like one player overwhelms the game and that player doesn’t feel they really did much differently and make the win feel unearned. The big thing though is figuring out how to do so with elements that otherwise drag out games as you’ve mentioned. This may be difficult to achieve but it is a fun thought piece. This deck gives people things they do not want: https://www.goonhammer.com/commander-focus-karona-the-false-god-says-fu-have-this/ Like you give someone the enchantment lich and if they get in your face your flicker it. It's not been updated since blim game out. It also has a sideline in trading people undiscovered paradise for their lands. pseudanonymous fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Apr 29, 2022 |
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Apr 29, 2022 21:51
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Don't take anything said in this thread seriously imo.
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Apr 29, 2022 21:52
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Toshimo posted:I don't know anything about Brawl or Arena really, so if this is a little lost in translation, bear with me: I think I see what you mean here, and I think I've been building my deck on the assumption that my commander, Druid Class, and other low cost permanent ways to get more land on the field per turn serve that purpose in a repeatable way that instants and sorcery options don't. I might be wrong on that front. You're probably right that my curve on those pieces is too high. quote:Now, if you.can give a little more criteria on what you're looking for, I can definitely make better recommendations in your price range, but I need to be clear what you are.ruling out: I prefer to win with attackers, at least with this deck, but LabMan is an alternate win condition I've been looking at given how central drawing is to the deck. I don't have a problem with infinite combos, but for this deck I'm less interested in stax as I already have an Azorius deck that leans towards that, and the same with turns and my Izzet deck. Narset as a measure to protect hand advantage over other opponents playing blue is partly a remnant of that. This is an exercise I'm pursuing as a change of pace from my more control focused decks.
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Apr 29, 2022 22:13
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I Before E posted:I think I see what you mean here, and I think I've been building my deck on the assumption that my commander, Druid Class, and other low cost permanent ways to get more land on the field per turn serve that purpose in a repeatable way that instants and sorcery options don't. I might be wrong on that front. You're probably right that my curve on those pieces is too high. Ok, cool. That's some stuff I can work with. Unfortunately my parents neighbors houses burnt down today so I have to go deal with that but I'll do some brewing when I get back.
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Apr 29, 2022 22:29
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The comment was from a little while ago, but re: MTG content, someone mentioned some different type of content like artist profiles n' such. Rhystic Studies on YouTube is fantastic and deserves a look. None of it is deck techs or set reviews or really any MTG consumer stuff. It's more about art and design and lore. It's well researched and (as far as I can tell) not hosted by a toxic chud. Here's a little sampler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqbZEPcJYc4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keXoU1p54tA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOE-lNs6qe4 As for the discussion about group hug decks, I know it's long been a bone of contention for good reason. A lot of folks ITT have bad experiences playing against them because a lot of the folks who play group hug decks don't play to win and just jerk off for two hours and make it so no one can win in a casual environment. I've said before that it isn't normally my jam, but one of my oldest and favorite decks is a group hug deck built around Kianios and Tyro of Meletis. It is seemingly a group hug deck, but blows up in people's faces with landfall triggers. I think it's a good example of a group hug deck run correctly (i.e. with win cons). I play in a "tuned casual" meta so it isn't designed to hang with cEDH decks designed to go off on T2, but it will absolutely smash sub-cEDH tables. There is something to be said about the table politics of a group hug deck. What I mean is, if you're the source of a bit of fuel for everyone, then other players are often less willing to target you over more aggressive or zero-sum decks. If you play things right and run enough control to keep others from going off first, this can give you a lot more openings to go off than you might otherwise have. Even the players I play with most often who have seen this K&T deck blow up are often tempted into playing along until it's too late. My point is: the group hug archetype has its uses, even if most of the casuals that use it don't use it well. Like, if you're looking at letting everyone draw cards, gain life, or ramp mana, you should first ask: why am I doing this, and how does this benefit me most? Don't just pile lifegain on everyone unless doing so will turn around and kill everyone else somehow. Certainly don't let other players draw cards or ramp mana unless you have a plan to control them and maximize your gains above all others. Don't just put cards into circulation just to do it. Do it as a means to win the game.
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Apr 30, 2022 00:53
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I’m just saying from my experiment with group hug decks in college was just me being like “ok! Everyone ready to have fun! Temple Bell, Rights of Flourishing, here ya go!” and my friend Kevin being like “oh wow thanks man! Draw 3 cards, play 2 lands… combo kill the table a turn early while all your shields are down?” This is back in 2012-2013 when cEDH functionally didn’t exist and every table was 2 people playing battlecruiser and 2 people jamming Mana Crypt into Food Chain.
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Apr 30, 2022 02:08
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Bust Rodd posted:I’m just saying from my experiment with group hug decks in college was just me being like “ok! Everyone ready to have fun! Temple Bell, Rights of Flourishing, here ya go!” and my friend Kevin being like “oh wow thanks man! Draw 3 cards, play 2 lands… combo kill the table a turn early while all your shields are down?” But to my point: why were you making everyone draw cards? Why let everyone ramp? Without a way to capitalize on that, you get the result you describe. But there are ways to use the strategy ruthlessly, to win rather than as a novelty.
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Apr 30, 2022 02:50
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Bust Rodd posted:I’m just saying from my experiment with group hug decks in college was just me being like “ok! Everyone ready to have fun! Temple Bell, Rights of Flourishing, here ya go!” and my friend Kevin being like “oh wow thanks man! Draw 3 cards, play 2 lands… combo kill the table a turn early while all your shields are down?” I tried to play edh on MTGO back then and you would have three people playing blind seer or kodama of the south tree or whatever, and one guy playing arcum daggson turn 3 time stretch. It was hilarious that the second group never seemed to get tired of playing non-games against people who each had cast exactly one spell when the game ended, often darksteel ingot.
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Apr 30, 2022 02:54
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Railing Kill posted:But to my point: why were you making everyone draw cards? Why let everyone ramp? Without a way to capitalize on that, you get the result you describe. But there are ways to use the strategy ruthlessly, to win rather than as a novelty. Because that’s what a group hug deck is and does, those are the primary things that group hug decks do. Yes, obviously if I had a way to kill them, like with sudden impact or whatever, I might have tried that, but the truth is that nowadays I just do not ever associate “allowing my opponent to draw cards” with a successful or ruthless strategy, because then you just get blown the gently caress out by Deflecting Swat or whatever. I’m sure you could build a Lasagana tier high power hug deck but I generally don’t think giving your opponents resources even as a goof or a gimmick is a reasonable way to play a game where the goal is eventually to win. There’s just too many free spells or one mana interaction or any number of other variables, because cards and decks are just more powerful than they used to be.
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Apr 30, 2022 02:57
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The opposite of Group Hug should be Group Slug where you play all the symmetrical (or mostly symmetrical) effects that 'cause everyone to lose life.
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Apr 30, 2022 03:09
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Batterypowered7 posted:The opposite of Group Hug should be Group Slug where you play all the symmetrical (or mostly symmetrical) effects that 'cause everyone to lose life. That is actually what folks call it.
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Apr 30, 2022 03:22
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I’ve always wanted to get into Magic but couldn’t afford it when I was younger. I have a few friends who live an hour from me who play Commander, and I’ve been preparing so that I can play with them. I really like the theme of the new set, based on my research however it appears the commander pre-cons aren’t really worth purchasing. Is it best I buy one anyway to at least have a starting point? Or is there a better way to start from scratch. Please feel free to send me on my way if there’s a better resource or video.
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Apr 30, 2022 03:31
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sub archetype for a deck called group bug where everyone gets a scute swarm emblem where everyone gets scute swarms with every landfall they make 
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Apr 30, 2022 03:41
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JackDarko posted:I’ve always wanted to get into Magic but couldn’t afford it when I was younger. I have a few friends who live an hour from me who play Commander, and I’ve been preparing so that I can play with them. I feel like we can probably point you in the right direction and get you started for cheaper with fewer bad cards. Why don’t you pick 1-2 legends from the new set and let us know what you like about them and we can get you started. I don’t wanna push your towards these precons, I’m really unimpressed with them and most of those cards will end up in a bulk box before long.
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Apr 30, 2022 03:49
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These new precons are also fuckoff expensive for fuckoff stupid reasons too. If you're open to shopping online, there ARE some pretty good precons from the past year or so-- Lorehold Legacies (red/white with artifact theme) from Strixhaven is really really cool, as is Buckle Up (white/blue vehicles) From Kamigawa Neon Dynasty and you can probably find them for lower than MSRP if you look around a bit. I'm not saying you should go out and buy them and I'm not even recommending it, but if you want to dip your feet into Commander without having to build your own deck first, it is an option. I still think the Lorehold deck is probably one of the best ones they've made in a very long time. Almost every set from last year had at least one nifty precon. Precons do suck in the long run though, by design, and you'll find a lot of cards to be inefficient bulk with a lovely manabase. Don't buy 'em unless you REALLY want them, or if the singles you want from it cost more to buy as singles as they would just the precon alone. At that point the bulk is a bonus I guess? Some old useless cards see new life and value as time goes on.
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Apr 30, 2022 04:09
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I like precons for giving me 100 cards I can sleeve up and then slot out at any speed I wish. It's a basic land base that I can slowly make edits on over time while giving me something that is at least functional while I figure out if I like a theme or not. Whether or not that's worth it to you is, of course, up to you.
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Apr 30, 2022 04:18
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Heath posted:I like precons for giving me 100 cards I can sleeve up and then slot out at any speed I wish. It's a basic land base that I can slowly make edits on over time while giving me something that is at least functional while I figure out if I like a theme or not. Whether or not that's worth it to you is, of course, up to you. Yeah I like grabbing them to play on unmodified with my friends for a few weeks and then start piecing them out into decks for our casual constructed stuff. They aren't the greatest value in the world depending on your needs but I like em well enough.
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Apr 30, 2022 04:34
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If you literally do not have any cards, they might be worth it. I honestly think we could whip something together out of the random extra cards that forum members have and just send spare singles out to someone and wind up with something better. Heck, Toshimo likes to make big lists of 50 cards under a buck that are near staples for actual good decks. Precons are just so drat expensive now.
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Apr 30, 2022 04:50
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Thank you everyone! You’re incredibly generous with your time. I’ll do my research and respond shortly with a couple Legendaries I find interesting and why. I don’t mind doing the work from there with a little guidance on how to get started.
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Apr 30, 2022 04:55
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Despite at least half of us being grumpy old people, I think everyone genuinely enjoys seeing people get into the hobby.
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Apr 30, 2022 05:18
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So I got a couple of SNC collector boosters since I had some credit to blow and... These are the worst quality cards since Commander Legends. Maybe even worse than that. They feel like poo poo. There is visible pitting on the cards and they all have this grainy, toothy texture that feels astonishingly cheap, and the foils curled to poo poo in all of five minutes. I'm about to give up on this stupid game
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Apr 30, 2022 05:34
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I would just rather you show up to your friends house and be like “oh yeah I did some research and threw this together” and then you just break the table over your knee like “oh whoopsie, all my creatures are 7/7 Hexproof tramples, guess I’ll draw 9 cards” on your first game and all your friends will be like “whaaaa” then if you showed up with a Precon and didn’t get to do anything because half your lands come into play tapped (gain 1 life)Heath posted:I'm about to give up on this stupid game I can’t tell you how many times I’ve opened a collector’s booster and genuinely felt like I was doing a service to the community by removing these cards from circulation. It’s bad enough that you’re paying $25 for $8-$9 worth of cards most of the time, but for them to just be damaged trash before you ever get to play with them really just kills the mystique and magic of the product. Just buy singles. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Apr 30, 2022 |
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Apr 30, 2022 05:35
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Heath posted:So I got a couple of SNC collector boosters since I had some credit to blow and... These are the worst quality cards since Commander Legends. Maybe even worse than that. They feel like poo poo. There is visible pitting on the cards and they all have this grainy, toothy texture that feels astonishingly cheap, and the foils curled to poo poo in all of five minutes. The professor literally went on a mini rant about collector booster card quality in the SNC Commander Decks review.
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Apr 30, 2022 05:39
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The precons have the same terrible quality. I'm assuming set boosters do too.
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Apr 30, 2022 05:59
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Hey! Remember all those Stranger Things secret lair cards? https://scryfall.com/sets/slx?as=grid&order=set Their Universes Within reprints now exist and they're dirt cheap, scoop 'em up if you want 'em-- you can probably get all of them for less than 10bux. (Do it with the Walking Dead ones now, WotC. I want me a Rick and Negan equivalent.) Framboise fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Apr 30, 2022 |
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Apr 30, 2022 07:16
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Framboise posted:Hey! Remember all those Stranger Things secret lair cards? Jesus Christ that's cheap, my friend just traded a Cecily for a foil alt art Ziatora 
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Apr 30, 2022 07:26
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Framboise posted:Hey! Remember all those Stranger Things secret lair cards? God, I wish they had just changed the text from Friends Forever to literally anything else. I have no idea if that phrase has anything to do with the show since I've never seen it (and I'm certainly unlikely to bother now that they sprayed their chunkie diarrhoea all over MtG), but that just sounds so goddamn dissonant for a plane like Innistrad. A theme of the sets are people getting unhallowed so they decidedly will not be your compatriot forever.
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Apr 30, 2022 08:43
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Just errata it in your head to “Eternally Bound” or something similar and it’ll be fine
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Apr 30, 2022 12:35
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Framboise posted:Hey! Remember all those Stranger Things secret lair cards? Where do you get these from, physically? SNC's list?
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Apr 30, 2022 13:10
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I believe so, yeah.
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Apr 30, 2022 13:12
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Kurieg posted:Where do you get these from, physically? SNC's list? Correct. I bought a Set box and got like 4 or 5 of them in the List spot.
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Apr 30, 2022 19:37
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Alright, I did some poking around on the new Legendaries in New Capenna. I came up with these two candidates.
I think the Blitz mechanic is very neat and you can probably resolve Ziatora's ability before the Blitz's ability in the stack. Jinnie seems somewhat flawed in that she doesn't have an impact on the board on her own. She does look super cool though.
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Apr 30, 2022 19:56
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JackDarko posted:Alright, I did some poking around on the new Legendaries in New Capenna. I came up with these two candidates. Jinnie Fay looks for any tokens being made, so if you've got that artifact dude that makes a food, treasure, and clue whenever you would make one, Jinnie would turn those into creatures as well. Gala Greeters is cute with her because you make a treasure with the ability, which turns into a dog/cat, which triggers the ability again (at which point you either gain life or make the greeters bigger).
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Apr 30, 2022 20:11
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Bust Rodd posted:Giving people Delusions of Grandeur was the OG zesty tech, Batterypowered, don’t sell yourself short! Also really funny to donate a more recent card, Experimental Frenzy, and lock people out of their hands! Getting to sleeve up 20 bad permanents to give to other players is the dream. Donate 9 Lives and give the player in the lead a vested interest in keeping you alive.
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Apr 30, 2022 21:00
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I Before E posted:I think I see what you mean here, and I think I've been building my deck on the assumption that my commander, Druid Class, and other low cost permanent ways to get more land on the field per turn serve that purpose in a repeatable way that instants and sorcery options don't. I might be wrong on that front. You're probably right that my curve on those pieces is too high. Ok, cool. So, let's start from the top.  This is who the deck is all about. So, let's build a package just for her. • Heartstone • Biomancer's Familiar • Lotus Cobra • Ghost Town • Devoted Druid + Roaring Earth • Evolution Sage + Pentad Prism/Druid's Repository • Retreat to Coralhelm • Tireless Provisioner • Quiron/Scryb Ranger + Ashaya, Soul of the Wild • Phantasmal Image • Stone-Seeder Heirophant That last one might be dodgy, but as a package, this gets you into "I'm going to activate my commander 10+ times in a row" territory. This gets a lot easier if you can proxy some important cards (like Training Grounds or Oboro), but this will get you there at some point. Then, I'd add the mass untappers, so you can go off big on your turn and still have options: • Wilderness Reclamation • Seedborn Muse Now, there's a bunch of combo stuff I'm trying to avoid, because of either price, or being staxy or just not fitting into quite where I'm taking the deck, but I want to acknowledge a little bit: • Words of Wind • Amulet of Vigor • Pemmin's Aura/Freed from the Real/ Intruder Alarm • Triskadekaphile • Thoracle/Labman/Jace • Wrenn and Seven • Scaretiller • Ancient Greenwarden • Mystic Sanctuary + Time Walks • Grand Artifact + Liquimetal Torque • Gaea's Cradle • Earthcraft So, you also said you wanted to get dudes swinging as your payoff. So... • Scute Swarm • Meloku, the Clouded Mirror • Zendikar's Roil • Ominous Seas • Beastmaster Ascension You may also want to consider adding these dudes to continue the counter/proliferate subtheme: • Rishkar, Peema Renegade • Jiang Yanggu, Wildcrafter From there, let's get our non-land manabase together. • Birds of Paradise • Llanowar Elves • Elvish Mystic • Fyndhorn Elves • Arbor Elf • Kiora's Follower • Sol Ring • Everflowing Chalice • Arcane Signet • Simic Signet • Talisman of Curiosity • Wild Growth • Utopia Sprawl From there, it's largely just jamming the best draw/interaction, and howevermuch lands you want to pay $$$ for, but as a special mention, Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth is right on that  line, but has a lot of positive interactions and would get reused in a lot of decks.Here's a sample of what I'd be looking to build: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/NjSOt4iMwU-GQFOly2GUSA
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Apr 30, 2022 21:51
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Toshimo posted:Ok, cool. So, let's start from the top. How about Growing Rites as a Cradle substitute?
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Apr 30, 2022 22:40
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