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the sonic x-treme team wanted to use the NiGHTs engine to cut down on development cost and time and then yuji naka or someone else involved with NiGHTs got pissed about another team using it and they engine was yanked away x-treme which is insane lol
16-bit Butt-Head fucked around with this message at 01:05 on May 1, 2022 |
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May 1, 2022 01:01
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i think the schism may have been because SoA and SoE were far more successful than SoJ and there was a lot of animosity over it
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May 1, 2022 01:02
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:the sonic x-treme team wanted to use the NiGHTs engine to cut down on development cost and time and then yuji naka or someone else involved with NiGHTs got pissed about another team using it and they engine was yanked away x-treme which is insane lol If anything the NiGHTS team should've been honored at the chance for someone to use the engine for a game that possibly would not be trash.
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May 1, 2022 01:06
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hatty posted:Not sure I could play a version of SA2 where everyone isn’t talking over each other At the very least, you got to keep in Sonic and Shadow talking over each other.
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May 1, 2022 01:10
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Kurieg posted:It is honestly astonishing how badly SoJ hosed over their overseas subsidiaries, to the point they handed Nintendo a high spec GPU on a silver platter because they weren't too proud to use a US developed chip. Could I get some more information on this? This sounds like a juicy story
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May 1, 2022 01:16
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Wasn't it the Xbox that was born out of Sega's fuckups with the Dreamcast somehow?
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May 1, 2022 01:18
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the 32X was also one of many stupid ideas Sega had in the 90's
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May 1, 2022 01:21
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I played some 32X games recently and they don’t seem great
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May 1, 2022 01:22
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Dabir posted:Wasn't it the Xbox that was born out of Sega's fuckups with the Dreamcast somehow? I think there's something about Microsoft deciding to go into video games after watching the Saturn-Dreamcast fuckup series.
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May 1, 2022 01:24
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hatty posted:I played some 32X games recently and they don’t seem great knuckles chaotix may be the only game worth playing and even it doesnt justify owning a 32X
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May 1, 2022 01:24
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sega releasing the saturn months ahead of schedule to compete with the playstation 1 and then getting blacklisted by retail stores because of it was not very smart either
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May 1, 2022 01:25
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:the sonic x-treme team wanted to use the NiGHTs engine to cut down on development cost and time and then yuji naka or someone else involved with NiGHTs got pissed about another team using it and they engine was yanked away x-treme which is insane lol Yeah it was Yuji Naka. Hirokazu Yasuhara was helping out with X-Treme but Naka's hissy fit meant the Saturn never got a mainline Sonic game. Naka probably did a lot of damage to Sega in the 90s and because he was considered a rockstar developer and father of Sonic he got away with it. Dabir posted:Wasn't it the Xbox that was born out of Sega's fuckups with the Dreamcast somehow? Not exactly but Isao Okawa forgave SEGA's debt of $500 million to him just to keep Sega alive and tried to broker a deal with Microsoft which would let Xbox games be able to play Dreamcast games but he passed away before that deal went anywhere.
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May 1, 2022 01:27
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Willo567 posted:Could I get some more information on this? This sounds like a juicy story SGI stumbled upon some voodoo that let them make a certain kind of chip that punched way above it's weight for the cost. But had no real place to use it. One of the guys at SGI was friends with a SOA head and said "hey um. Oops? You guys need a fancy new GPU design?" Said head knew about the Saturn and set up a meeting with people in Japan to look at the chip. Their response was "this is clearly way too powerful than anyone would ever need you're clearly overcharging us. Also it needs to do all these things before we'd consider it." So they added those things, and SoJ still turned it down, and the SoA head threw up his hands and told them "sorry I don't know what the gently caress is going on." When Nintendo later reached out to SGI asking them for tech for the ultra 64 SGI's response was "oh hey look at this thing we just happen to have lying around."
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May 1, 2022 01:36
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sega also slapped extra processors on the saturn to make it more powerful than the playstation 1 but barely anyone knew how to work with them so everyone just went for the easier to program for playstation 1 lol
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May 1, 2022 01:52
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Kurieg posted:SGI stumbled upon some voodoo that let them make a certain kind of chip that punched way above it's weight for the cost. But had no real place to use it. One of the guys at SGI was friends with a SOA head and said "hey um. Oops? You guys need a fancy new GPU design?" sega's full of loving idiots.
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May 1, 2022 01:58
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Also they made SoJ and SoA fight to design the Dreamcast but probably had no intention of using the SOA design at all
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May 1, 2022 02:00
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Sonic could run faster than the devil, imo
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May 1, 2022 02:04
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Sonic runs with the devil not past him
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May 1, 2022 02:21
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Sonic avoids crossroads because that's where the devil is waiting to collect his soul in return for making him the fastest thing alive.
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May 1, 2022 02:25
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:sega also slapped extra processors on the saturn to make it more powerful than the playstation 1 but barely anyone knew how to work with them so everyone just went for the easier to program for playstation 1 lol My understanding is that the Saturn had way more CPU power but a really tough to work with 3d GPU that was lacking all sorts of basic functionality, and it used quads instead of triangles if I remember correctly. Also, the handful of 2d games that came out on the Saturn put so, so many sprites on the screen, it was awesome.
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May 1, 2022 02:31
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I think some fighting game ports ran better on the Saturn than even the Dreamcast. It was quite the 2D beast shame we never got a real Sonic on it, I imagine it’d look something close to Mania
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May 1, 2022 02:37
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Twerk from Home posted:My understanding is that the Saturn had way more CPU power but a really tough to work with 3d GPU that was lacking all sorts of basic functionality, and it used quads instead of triangles if I remember correctly. Time for more Deep Saturn Lore. One of the keys to the Genesis' success was the ports of Arcade games, sure they weren't as good as the arcade versions but they were Acceptable in the day. And Sega's newest arcade hit was Virtua Fighter, which used Quads. So sega built the Saturn with the idea of doing an arcade perfect port of Virtua Fighter in mind. Well, when you're in the wild west of bespoke arcade hardware, using quads is fine. You're writing one program to do one thing on a piece of hardware that's designed to only run that program. Who cares if it uses Quads or is written in Lisp. But basically everyone else in the world had settled on using Triangles instead of Quads, so any game that was being ported to the Saturn or being developed in tandem with another system had to have it's graphics engine and models redone from scratch to use Quads instead of Tris. It was a system that was designed to run Sega Games Written By Sega For Sega very well and nothing else. Also, since literally no one else used Quads, the GPUs for the saturn were expensive as gently caress. When Sony completely undercut their price at E3, Sega tried to sue them, thinking that they were taking a massive loss on the PS1 in order to run sega out of the market. It turned out that no, Sony was still making a profit off the PS1 even at their much lower price point, because they were using hardware that just loving worked and wasn't bespoke to run only in the light of Sega's glory. Extra fact 1): The reason why the handful of 2d Saturn games were so good is because it turns out that Sprites are Rectangles, and the Saturn is very very good at moving lots and lots of rectangles around, and nothing else. All those sprites were protected onto Rectangles. Extra fact 2): However: because of the way sega handled projections onto Quads, it was basically impossible to do real time environment reflection mapping, the GPU could not handle it. It was possible to do it, but you had to do it in software and that was basically the *only thing* the Saturn could do at the time. That fancy SGI Processor used on the N64? Metal Mario was in the first loving N64 game.
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May 1, 2022 03:29
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I've been told by my friend about circumstances of Heroes' development, and apparently development was so strained Iizuka ended up making himself seriously ill designing levels for it. Honestly, it's amazing the game is good as it is.
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May 1, 2022 04:02
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May 1, 2022 05:31
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Is that the same game that gave us this gem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSGae-hYAjM
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May 1, 2022 05:53
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MJeff posted:Is that the same game that gave us this gem nope!
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May 1, 2022 05:57
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Perfect page to post this.
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May 1, 2022 07:09
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It's almost amazing in retrospect Sega ever managed to succeed at all in the first place. It seems like their success got to their head and they got too big, too fast. (ironically, yes) And Yuji Naka clearly got promoted out of his competencies.
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May 1, 2022 08:35
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's almost amazing in retrospect Sega ever managed to succeed at all in the first place. It seems like their success got to their head and they got too big, too fast. (ironically, yes) And Yuji Naka clearly got promoted out of his competencies. It kinda puts into context just how special and how great and how successful those first three (four) games were because SEGA basically just loving slammed its head into a wall nonstop after the Genesis and it still took what, the better part of 7 years for it to finally catch up to them? They stumbled into one of the greatest properties in their industry and have never fully understood what they have on their hands and how special it is. Never. MJeff fucked around with this message at 08:42 on May 1, 2022 |
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May 1, 2022 08:40
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's almost amazing in retrospect Sega ever managed to succeed at all in the first place. It seems like their success got to their head and they got too big, too fast. (ironically, yes) And Yuji Naka clearly got promoted out of his competencies.
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May 1, 2022 15:56
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MJeff posted:They stumbled into one of the greatest properties in their industry and have never fully understood what they have on their hands and how special it is. Never. That really is just SEGA's story up til the death of the Dreamcast: they struck gold and then spent all that gold investing in beachfront property in Montana.
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May 1, 2022 16:06
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Yeah, in retrospect it’s kind of a miracle that Sega lasted in the console market for as long as it did. What was the straw that finally broke the camel’s back out of curiosity?
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May 1, 2022 16:32
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Larryb posted:Yeah, in retrospect it’s kind of a miracle that Sega lasted in the console market for as long as it did. What was the straw that finally broke the camel’s back out of curiosity? They finally promoted a company president that realized that they kept throwing good money after bad and it wasn't improving, and they shoved it down the board of directors throat until they agreed.
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May 1, 2022 16:40
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I'd a assume the whole 'We started selling it last week' fiasco.
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May 1, 2022 16:41
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Kurieg posted:They finally promoted a company president that realized that they kept throwing good money after bad and it wasn't improving, and they shoved it down the board of directors throat until they agreed. "Look, if we just give Yu Suzuki an unheard amount of money to make a game that will under no circumstances make enough money to break even, again, we can finally defeat the PS2!"
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May 1, 2022 16:53
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The mismanagement of the Saturn in America is ultimately the root cause of their death, but even then they had enough money and momentum to release a moderately successful console afterward. (It just wasn't enough to save them.)
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May 1, 2022 16:54
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SEGA could've saved their hardware ambitions if they used the Segata Sanshiro ad campaign worldwide and I will not be hearing arguments to the contrary.
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May 1, 2022 16:57
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Zonekeeper posted:The mismanagement of the Saturn in America is ultimately the root cause of their death, but even then they had enough money and momentum to release a moderately successful console afterward. (It just wasn't enough to save them.) Sega of Japan could not fathom that 16 bit systems were still popular and cannibalized Genesis production lines to make more Saturns, So Nintendo just ate up market share when people weren't able to buy the Genesis *or* the saturn.
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May 1, 2022 17:30
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Funky Valentine posted:SEGA could've saved their hardware ambitions if they used the Segata Sanshiro ad campaign worldwide and I will not be hearing arguments to the contrary. i would like to subscribe to your newsletter
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May 1, 2022 18:51
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Kurieg posted:Sega of Japan could not fathom that 16 bit systems were still popular and cannibalized Genesis production lines to make more Saturns, So Nintendo just ate up market share when people weren't able to buy the Genesis *or* the saturn. And outside the Saturn you had Genesis variants and add-ons that didn't sell very well on top of that. As much as I love my old Nomad, it wasn't exactly a best-seller. And the less said about the 32X the better.
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May 1, 2022 19:00
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