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You made the same post like an hour ago. 167 Corbyn street is actually no 82 evershot road. Yet more lies from the former labour leader. 
NotJustANumber99 fucked around with this message at 20:16 on May 1, 2022 |
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May 1, 2022 20:08
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Looks fine to me? 
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May 1, 2022 20:13
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OwlFancier posted:No ifs or buts, schools must reopen. Yes. Starmer is single-handedly responsible for everything the Tories did on his watch, but uncle Jezza isn't. Dabir posted:gently caress off then. Who would win a fight Mecha-Corbyn or a Wererayner ?.
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May 1, 2022 20:14
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Gonzo McFee posted:What I'm getting from you is that there is no positive reason to vote Labour. Corbyn's gone that's a plus for some.
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May 1, 2022 20:15
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beepboop  pissflaps detected
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May 1, 2022 20:18
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I definitely prefer the idea that it's the manx flag having a bath.
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May 1, 2022 20:18
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Gonzo McFee posted:What I'm getting from you is that there is no positive reason to vote Labour. labour at least came close to supporting proportional representation last conference if some union hadn't stuck their oar in for some reason or other. labour minority government propped up with snp + lib dem support, forcing them to implement pr is, to me, the most likely route of actually getting long term change.
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May 1, 2022 20:21
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I need you to understand that we don't have time as a thread, as a country or as a species for centrists playing the self-satisfied "I'm the only adult in the room" game. Stop trying to do politics and gently caress off.
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May 1, 2022 20:21
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Clean Your Teeth posted:labour at least came close to supporting proportional representation last conference if some union hadn't stuck their oar in for some reason or other. Is there anything to suggest that labour would not simply collapse the government rather than do that? It's a hive of careerist shites, they're not going to do anything to rock that boat and frankly I doubt the lib dems or SNP would care much either.
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May 1, 2022 20:23
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OwlFancier posted:Is there anything to suggest that labour would not simply collapse the government rather than do that? It's a hive of careerist shites, they're not going to do anything to rock that boat and frankly I doubt the lib dems or SNP would care much either. well, we're probably getting into tea-leaf reading territory, but labour have been out of power for over a decade. I'd imagine the careerists would be happier to spend 4/5 years in power, build their cvs as ministers, and then chance it next election under pr/retire to the dinner party speaking circuit rather than refuse to form a government because of their principles.
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May 1, 2022 20:28
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I just don't think they give that much of a poo poo about winning elections? They were perfectly content to throw the last one because they couldn't bear to break the principle of actually doing something worthwhile rather than competing with the tories for who can come up with the most elaborate paup torturing scheme.
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May 1, 2022 20:31
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Dabir posted:I need you to understand that we don't have time as a thread, as a country or as a species for centrists playing the self-satisfied "I'm the only adult in the room" game. Stop trying to do politics and gently caress off. My monies on the mecha-corbyn.
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May 1, 2022 20:32
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You're not big, you're not clever and you're not contributing anything. Leave.
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May 1, 2022 20:35
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Dabir posted:You're not big, you're not clever and you're not contributing anything. Leave. If it was a werestarmer would it still be able to use it's cool spy gadgets or would the claws get in the way do you think ?.
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May 1, 2022 20:38
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Morningwoodpecker posted:Corbyn's gone that's a plus for some. For cunts.
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May 1, 2022 20:39
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Good news about Kylie and Jason though.
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May 1, 2022 20:41
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OwlFancier posted:I just don't think they give that much of a poo poo about winning elections? They were perfectly content to throw the last one because they couldn't bear to break the principle of actually doing something worthwhile rather than competing with the tories for who can come up with the most elaborate paup torturing scheme. Wanting to be "one of the two proper grown-up parties that get to take turns being in charge" even if no turn-taking is involved 
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May 1, 2022 20:41
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OwlFancier posted:I just don't think they give that much of a poo poo about winning elections? They were perfectly content to throw the last one because they couldn't bear to break the principle of actually doing something worthwhile rather than competing with the tories for who can come up with the most elaborate paup torturing scheme. You may be on a slightly higher level of cynicism than me. I mean, I know they knifed the left wing of the party rather than help try to win when Corbyn was in charge, but I saw that as more of a power grab for control of the party rather than being against winning (as long as they are in charge). (Or alternatively, if they don't care about winning elections, why would they care about changing the rules of the elections?) The real rebuttal to my argument is probably that Blair etc. got in promising electoral reform, but shelved it once they thought they would be on the right side of FPTP, but that's why my fantasy scenario has them as a minority govt.
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May 1, 2022 20:46
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Starmer's Labour as a minority government that can't get any of their "we will be worse than the tories on scum sub-people" poo poo done is a better prospect than Starmer's Labour with an outright majority. It'll probably still end up as "in exchange for a 50p minimum pricing on bags for life, we will be worse than the tories on scum sub-people" but there's a chance of cabinet members windsocking to good things by pure chance.
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May 1, 2022 20:51
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I'm just impressed how much the rallying cry of "just get the tories out" is being repeated. With scoffing comments like "You're an idiot if you think they're the same" to any criticism of Labour. As if the Labour right, currently in charge, aren't massive authoritarian cunts and literal rules lawyers devoid of any actual plan to improve the nation. If they win an election they'll just double down on war on drugs, ASBOs and loving over minorities while somehow manage to waste a fucktonne of money doing it, because they're both hopelessly naive and incompetent. They'll then devolve into horrific bloodbath infighting for 3 years over another manufactured scandal that they're shocked, shocked to be in the firing line of this time. They will then lose to the Tories for another Generation and we'll be even more hosed. Yeah I guess maybe they won't intentionally defund local labour councils while continuing to 'accidentally' ship people to Rwanda. Weee. I dunno, the tories loving suck. But a Starmer gov? I think it might be even worse.
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May 1, 2022 20:53
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Surely a minority government requires the SNP, which will only happen with another referendum. Feels like starmer would never agree to that so it's a non starter. But if he did it's the breakup of the UK. Which seems like most people here would see as the best possible route to change? In which case surely, for most in this thread, your hopes might be that kier starmer is desperate enough to be pm that he agrees to that and heralds the change you want to see? I mean it's a bit of a faragey accelerationist outlook but there aren't really any good options?
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May 1, 2022 21:01
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Reminder that darling of the centre Jess Philips grinned her loving teeth inside out at losing an election, these loving ghouls are perfectly happy at losing eternally to the tories as long as they continue to get the free flat and telly fees for sitting there and saying they'd do the exact same as the tories, just with maybe 10% less contempt for anyone without an ancestral title. This country is hosed and centrism is a disease. There are no 'good' choices any more. All of the things that would actually change politics or help people are completely disconnected from voter politics and you can't even name them outside of minecraft parodies. I'm not going to criticise anyone who votes Labour because it's a wretched choice in the wretched system that is left to us. But I do continue to find it ridiculous when people trot out the line that that both parties are the same. No it won't fix capitalism or inequality or the climate but nothing you do by voting will change those things. So you may as well use your vote to move the needle an inch, if that's all you can do. In an ideal world I'd be voting for Corbyn or someone with similar policies. But they took that choice away. It's like if you were forced to choose between someone throwing poo poo in your mouth or poo poo on your face. I'd choose the face because it's the least bad of those choices, and if I don't choose then some arseholes are still going to choose mouth for me. Importantly, I'd also try to break free of whoever was making me make that choice, but that's not part of that choice. I don't feel like I'm explaining my point very well but it's been a long, disappointing weekend of trying to de-transphobe my parents, along with putting some alternative ways of viewing the refugee crisis and working poor. I have realised how badly the papers have damaged the people of this country. We do not live in an ideal world. We do not have the luxury of ideological purity any more. If the least bad is the the only vote I have, I'll grit my teeth and do it.
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May 1, 2022 21:04
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centrists hate any attempt to actually achieve meaningful progress but they'll smugwank themselves silly over the most meaningless and insignificant changes as long as they can claim that they're ~*~making things better~*~ whether they're actually making things better (they aren't) doesn't matter, because by the time the consequences happen they'll be off on the next feelgood crusade where they can be ~*~the adults in the room~*~ making all the ~*~tough decisions~*~
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May 1, 2022 21:11
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It should be legal to hunt centrists for sport, like pheasants
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May 1, 2022 21:14
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crispix posted:beepboop I believe so too
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May 1, 2022 21:14
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At this point I'm only involved in the Labour party because my MP is semi-decent, my potential councillor would be good, and the blairites in my local party are *furious* that both were selected. I have no hope that the labour leadership would be any better than the Tories, but I can put some minimal effort into spiting the people who were happy about 2019.
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May 1, 2022 21:15
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forkboy84 posted:It should be legal to hunt centrists for sport, like pheasants You'd probably find a reason to shoot each other in the car park before setting out.
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May 1, 2022 21:16
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Clean Your Teeth posted:You may be on a slightly higher level of cynicism than me. I mean, I know they knifed the left wing of the party rather than help try to win when Corbyn was in charge, but I saw that as more of a power grab for control of the party rather than being against winning (as long as they are in charge). I think the most clear thing that drives how they behave is that they think that they Understand Politics. It's seemingly axiomatic, they have a very clear vision of what sorts of things a government should do, and it's whatever they, personally, think a government should do. It is fundamentally unreactive to outside stimulus which is why they do not make any real effort to address problems, they complain about the tories sometimes but in practice they support the majority of their decisions, and if they object to them it's on some minor thing like "oh it's a bit expensive, we would spend less money" If I had to describe their political project it would probably be a small-c conservative panopticon. They want to expand the security state and the government's ability to act with impunity, they have a great affinity for how things were 20-30 years ago as evidenced by their inability to stop hauling blair's dick out to slobber on in public, and how all of their poltical positions are geared towards 50something homeowners and the j k rowlings of the world who thought they were very cool and young when labour won in 1997 but now the world is strange and full of genders and someone should do something about it. And why their economic interventions are non-existant to laughable. They are just as committed to the neoliberalism of 30 years ago as the tories are, possibly even moreso, they seem to think the government should be involved with everything and especially should serve as some kind of moral arbiter in the lives of the lower classes but are fundamentally uninterested in making major changes to the economy. Everything suggests they are looking to build a government that can terrorize whoever they (or the daily mail) think should be terrorized today but doesn't use its power to do anything else. And this is sensible centrism, this is what being the grown up in the room is like. The government should not be responsible for housing you, or feeding you, or protecting you at work, but it should be monitoring your political activities and policing your genitals because Jim Porkfucker in Buggringham-on-Trent is very angry about these woke urban yooths coming to pull down his 36 foot statue of winston churchill doing the stone cold stunner on Gandhi. It is the desire not, fundamentally, to make changes, but to sit as the great arbiter of society, and to sagely and austerely enforce whatever confected idiocy you imagine is important to the voter who exists inside your head, and who strangely sounds a lot like a fifty year old man who last seriously engaged in the world in 1999 and resents everything that happened since. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:28 on May 1, 2022 |
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May 1, 2022 21:23
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NotJustANumber99 posted:You made the same post like an hour ago. Why are you searching my street? The ideological gap between Labour and Tories grows ever slimmer, but there is still a gap. Whether it’s a big enough gap to motivate one enough to actually vote Labour to get the Tories out is a personal decision. I think the Tories are so bad that unless someone can demonstrate how voting Labour would be worse (even in medium to long term) I’d probably still vote Labour if I had to. Corbyn is my PM so it’s quite theoretical for me. I’d understand if people looked at Labour under Starmer and couldn’t bring themselves to do it.
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May 1, 2022 21:25
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therattle posted:The ideological gap between Labour and Tories grows ever slimmer, but there is still a gap. Whether it’s a big enough gap to motivate one enough to actually vote Labour to get the Tories out is a personal decision. I think the Tories are so bad that unless someone can demonstrate how voting Labour would be worse (even in medium to long term) I’d probably still vote Labour if I had to. Corbyn is my PM so it’s quite theoretical for me. I’d understand if people looked at Labour under Starmer and couldn’t bring themselves to do it. You won't be voting for corbyn at the next election if you vote labour.
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May 1, 2022 21:27
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Reminder that darling of the centre Jess Philips grinned her loving teeth inside out at losing an election, these loving ghouls are perfectly happy at losing eternally to the tories as long as they continue to get the free flat and telly fees for sitting there and saying they'd do the exact same as the tories, just with maybe 10% less contempt for anyone without an ancestral title. There's two problems with this. One is that Labour's spent so much effort on speeding to the right that they forgot about the bit where they attempt to convince us that they're better than the Tories in any way that matters. In fact, they've been attacking the Tories from the right on law and order and on government spending, which is terrifying when we've got an actual fascist as home sec and a Randian as chancellor. The other problem is that it's not purity which is the privileged position, it's compromise. You can only throw minorities under the buss if you're not part of them. For instance, I'm disabled, and the current shadow chancellor came out and said back in 2015 that people like me don't deserve democratic representation. She's never clarified, she's never apologised, and now she's back on the same old bullshit about 'hard-working families'. There's presently a bipartisan consensus in Westminster that people like me are second-class citizens, meaning that there's genuinely no point in me getting particularly fussed about which team of parasitic bigots gets the driver's seat of a machine that is entirely antagonistic to me. Might as well just work to undermine and/or bypass the fuckers instead.
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May 1, 2022 21:30
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At a certain point, focusing too much on Westminster electoralism becomes an active failure of solidarity with the people who the entire Westminster consensus view as acceptable casualties. The advent of Starmer in particular has cemented Parliament in its entirely as an actively antagonistic force to much of the country.
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May 1, 2022 21:38
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After years of never corbyn its genuinely insulting to see 'vote red no matter what' rhetoric. The only sensible path forward would be to dump Starmer and pick a new candidate actually interested in uniting the party, acknowledging damage done and building the big tent. I am not holding out for much, just give me vaguely progressive policies and a leader who hasn't obliterated my trust utterly. It won't happen because the crux of the matter is that the labour right would rather lose on a right wing platform than win on a left wing platform. They've said as much and demonstrated their commitment quite throughly. Whatever your personal calculus when it comes down to it at the ballot box its tatically insane to voice that you'll hold your nose if you want better from the labour party. I also think that anyone arguing in favour of voting labour would do better advocating for compromise with the left and mending bridges in the party itself than bashing their heads against people who at this point feel so alienated and betrayed by the party that it will take genuine actual change to repair.
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May 1, 2022 21:48
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The Labour Right hates the SNP more than the Tories. They'd probably set up a Coalition with the Lib Dems and be further to the right than Johnson.
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May 1, 2022 21:50
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Mr Phillby posted:After years of never corbyn its genuinely insulting to see 'vote red no matter what' rhetoric. The only sensible path forward would be to dump Starmer and pick a new candidate actually interested in uniting the party, acknowledging damage done and building the big tent. I am not holding out for much, just give me vaguely progressive policies and a leader who hasn't obliterated my trust utterly. Over the last few years I've had this, "Starmer's a wrecker, his job is to kick the left out of every position of power in the party, then he'll step down and a "uniter" candidate will step up, allowing the left back in and allowing some token leftists into positions of not-much-power. This way the right stays in charge while still getting the votes from the left" theory. But it's been a hell of a long time and Starmer's still screaming that he desperately doesn't want my vote, so the theory's looking pretty goddamn threadbare by now.
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May 1, 2022 21:53
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I don't think there has ever been a political party doing a "long con" kind of gimmick, I don't think they are structurally set up to be capable of that tbqh. The tories might give that appearance by ablating leaders in times of crisis but that's not planned, it's just how they work.
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May 1, 2022 21:54
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OwlFancier posted:You won't be voting for corbyn at the next election if you vote labour. I have my issues with Corbyn but if he stood as an independent I’d vote for him. If he didn’t then I don’t know. And I am not sure what to do for local elections. It should be the Greens but as has been described here they are suspect. Who was the Labour activist whose resignation letter was posted here recently where people are being suspended for liking his tweets/FB posts but Labour didn’t actually move against him? David Rosenberg?
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May 1, 2022 22:02
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I've said it before, and I still think it's true: The reason Labour are happy with the status quo is that the people in charge are doing really nicely out of it. There's nothing about Tory policy that negatively impacts the kind of people who have power within the party. The most impactful pushback anyone gets against having poo poo opinions is when their acquaintances give them poo poo for it, but it's called the Westminster Bubble for a reason, and the party seems to mostly recruit upper-middle class cunts who are probably only friends with other upper-middle class cunts. So you've got a party led by people who are doing just fine, and no-one they're obliged to listen to really gives a poo poo about the Tories wrecking the country. I don't think Labour is ideologically wedded to the sort of policies they support; I just don't think they give a poo poo either way. Which is worse, imo.
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May 1, 2022 22:06
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kingturnip posted:I've said it before, and I still think it's true: I agree, this is why I think it ties into the axiomatic belief that they understand politics. It's all a reflection of their own prejudices, laundered through some imaginary conception of what voters really want, when in actuality all they are doing is looking for validation for their own beliefs. And as you say, they're doing fine, so when they look for validation they end up with tories, because at their heart they are tories, they have the needs of tories.
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May 1, 2022 22:15
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I’m interested to see how these local elections shake out to be honest, I’m seeing a much greater amount of Green Party campaigning in my ward compared to usual. Because I’m on a main road Labour are always out the week before the election asking if they can put a sign on the front gate (this is the first time I’ve refused them) but I’m actually seeing about as many Green Party signs this time as well - not sure how much this is actually a reflection of people’s views versus how much it is increased Green campaigning, but either way I’m wondering if they’ve seen a weakness for Labour in this, a majority Muslim area of Bradford.
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May 1, 2022 22:18
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