Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

«‹›2240 »

PeterCat: Apr 8, 2020; Believe women.

vessbot posted:

At 8:20 in the video he says it's not a point of contention.

Okay,. I confess I did not actually watch the video but I'm just keeping up with the conversation.

# ? Apr 30, 2022 19:02

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 26, 2024 02:15

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

What the fuuuuck

https://twitter.com/Hoddy1982/status/1520300420379389954

# ? Apr 30, 2022 19:06

PainterofCrap: Oct 17, 2002; hey bebe

Someone's getting called before the Mast

# ? Apr 30, 2022 21:03

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

PT6A posted:

I mean, the investigation has apparently been ongoing for a long time because the incident happened in 2019 and the FSDO gave him a talking-to immediately afterward, so I don't think that's entirely it. It probably didn't help him, but I doubt he otherwise would've escaped unscathed.

He had a run-in with the FSDO before that after an incident where he went to a (paved) RC field, dropped an RC plane out of his own plane, and flew it in formation.

It�s not the flying the objected to.

It seems that the while some of the members of the club were stoked, management was not pleased that he dropped by.

Oops.

# ? Apr 30, 2022 21:17

the milk machine: Jul 23, 2002; lick my keys

St_Ides posted:

Balloon pilots exploit the poo poo out of this rule, out of necessity.

Everything we do affects our landing spot, so if we need to skim rooftops to get to a safe landing spot, then it was necessary for the purpose of landing. It�s obviously something we avoid, just to avoid pissing off the general public.

So the rule can be stretched pretty far, depending on the circumstances.

i'm a big dumbass that doesn't know anything other than i like to see things fly and zoom around

do you have to get a pilot's license to fly a hot air balloon? what about gliders / sail planes and such?

# ? Apr 30, 2022 23:20

babyeatingpsychopath: Oct 28, 2000; Forum Veteran

the milk machine posted:

do you have to get a pilot's license to fly a hot air balloon? what about gliders / sail planes and such?

Yes, and yes.

There are separate "aircraft categories" for "airplane, rotorcraft, powered lift, gliders, lighter than air, powered parachute and weight-shift-control aircraft." Within these, there may be additional classes. Under "airplane," for example, you can have Single-engine, Multi-engine, Land, and Sea. There are also endorsements, like complex, high-power, and maybe others.

So if you just walk into a "pilot's license school" and get the "pilot's license" you're getting an Airplane license, for Single-Engine, equipped for Land use. Aka ASEL. If you want to fly something with such radically new technology as "retractable landing gear" or "variable-speed propellor" you'll need a "complex" endorsement. There's another one for tail-wheel airplanes ("standard" landing gear).

If you go to lighter-than-air school, you're getting a free-air balloon license by default. That's hot air balloons. You can also get blimp and rigid airship.

# ? Apr 30, 2022 23:57

slidebite: Nov 6, 2005; Good egg

Am I weird that I want to fly a powered parachute? Those look fun as hell.

# ? May 1, 2022 00:01

Arson Daily: Aug 11, 2003

Fly all the things! All forms of aviation are welcome here. Except helicopters. They are an abomination and move us further from gods light.

# ? May 1, 2022 02:29

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Helicopters are the quickest way to meet god personally.

# ? May 1, 2022 02:32

ThisIsJohnWayne: Feb 23, 2007; Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!

I don't think helicopters are trying to take you closer to heaven when they fall, pilgrim

# ? May 1, 2022 02:49

Zhanism: Apr 1, 2005; Death by Zhanism. So Judged.

ThisIsJohnWayne posted:

I don't think helicopters are trying to take you closer to heaven when they fall, pilgrim

You can't get to heaven before you are buried.

# ? May 1, 2022 03:12

ThisIsJohnWayne: Feb 23, 2007; Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!

There's no heaven where we're going, sonny

# ? May 1, 2022 03:20

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Scam Likely posted:

Anyone know where to find more sweet sweet cutaway illustrations like the one here? Searches for AVI AGRAPHICA didn't seem to yield any results.

Here's where/how to find about 3000 more

# ? May 1, 2022 03:25

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

Cojawfee posted:

A suburban cul-de-sac is not 10 acres per lot. This area is 10 acres minimum per lot, meaning it could be more.

Dude seriously? Read that poo poo again. I said 20 lots and a black top. 1/3rd to 1/2 acre lots in a nice suburb aren�t uncommon at all.

Murgos fucked around with this message at 13:07 on May 1, 2022

# ? May 1, 2022 12:59

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Murgos posted:

Dude seriously? Read that poo poo again. I said 20 lots and a black top. 1/3rd to 1/2 acre lots in a nice suburb aren�t uncommon at all.

If it's a development built after 1990, it certainly is.

# ? May 1, 2022 14:30

Zero One: Dec 30, 2004; HAIL TO THE VICTORS!

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1520710885911711745?s=21&t=d04XJrAlbDNsMHJKpAWPNQ

# ? May 1, 2022 15:22

Ambihelical Hexnut: Aug 5, 2008

Arson Daily posted:

Fly all the things! All forms of aviation are welcome here. Except helicopters. They are an abomination and move us further from gods light.

Helicopters are not angels or devils, but simply explorers from another dimension who crave carnal experiences and can no longer differentiate between pain and pleasure.

# ? May 1, 2022 15:26

ThisIsJohnWayne: Feb 23, 2007; Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!

Ambihelical Hexnut posted:

Helicopters are not angels or devils, but simply explorers from another dimension who crave carnal experiences and can no longer differentiate between pain and pleasure.

Yep, sounds like something the devil would say :clint:

# ? May 1, 2022 15:30

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Zero One posted:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1520710885911711745?s=21&t=d04XJrAlbDNsMHJKpAWPNQ

Looks like DAL's not on board...

# ? May 1, 2022 15:46

big shtick energy: May 27, 2004

slidebite posted:

Am I weird that I want to fly a powered parachute? Those look fun as hell.

They do. Go for PPG (powered paraglider) over PPC (powered parachute), the wing technology is way newer and much safer.

# ? May 1, 2022 19:33

slidebite: Nov 6, 2005; Good egg

I don't have anyone that does instruction close to me, but there is someone about 3-4 hours from me that seems highly regarded. I'm putting out a feeler for PPG. Apparently, I'm in a midlife crisis can use something else lol

Thanks

# ? May 1, 2022 23:09

Aaaaaaarrrrrggggg: Oct 4, 2004; ha, ha, ha, og me ekam

slidebite posted:

I don't have anyone that does instruction close to me, but there is someone about 3-4 hours from me that seems highly regarded. I'm putting out a feeler for PPG. Apparently, I'm in a midlife crisis can use something else lol

Thanks

Nothing wrong with that! I've been eyeing up the local flight school now that I found my brain meds are actually FAA approved.

# ? May 1, 2022 23:30

PeterCat: Apr 8, 2020; Believe women.

Ambihelical Hexnut posted:

Helicopters are not angels or devils, but simply explorers from another dimension who crave carnal experiences and can no longer differentiate between pain and pleasure.

Angels to some, demons to others.

Oh, I've slipped the surly bonds of earth
And hovered out of ground effect on semi-rigid blades;
Earthward I've auto'ed and met the rising brush of non-paved terrain
And done a thousand things you would never care to
Skidded and dropped and flared
Low in the heat soaked roar.
Confined there, I've chased the earthbound traffic
And lost the race to insignificant headwinds;
Forward and up a little in ground effect
I've topped the General's hedge with drooping turns
Where never Skyhawk or even Phantom flew.
Shaking and pulling collective,
I've lumbered The low untresspassed halls of victor airways,
Put out my hand and touched a tree.

# ? May 1, 2022 23:30

Xakura: Jan 10, 2019; A safety-conscious little mouse!

Unsourced in a youtube comment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXR6LfvX-3Y

I am Trent's attorney.

quote:

What happened in his case was so appalling, I do not know where to begin.

But to call his trial a circus demeans the circus.

Nicolae and Elena Ceaușescu got a fairer trial than Trent did.

Here are but a few examples:

- The center piece of the FAA case was a video that caught a glimpse of Trent's airplane during his low inspection pass. The FAA destroyed/deleted that video before trial, but every FAA witness was permitted to testify (over my continuous objection) about what the video allegedly showed even thought we could not see it.

- FAA Counsel during the course of the proceedings objected to a question that I ask their "expert" relative to the flap system Trent's aircraft used. Her objection? She did not understand the question. When the judge asked her source of confusion, she asked "what's a flap?" This attorney has been with the FAA for 22 years.

Remember that the justification for all administrative agencies is that they are repositories of subject matter "expertise."

Spare me.

- Their "expert pilot" had an unremarkable flying career who never made any more than 50K as a pilot and doubled his salary when he jumped to the FAA 18 years ago. He was the individual who the FAA put up to second guess Trent about his off-airport operations. He had not touched an aircraft in 18 years. He knew nothing about Trent's plane, could not tell you its performance characteristics, what type it was, its engine, etc. He conducted no investigation and read no materials which would have informed him in that regard. He too knew nothing of Trent's flying experience. He had never observed Trent flying and made no efforts or requests to do so.

I asked him whether or not it was a fair statement that the "appropriateness" of a landing site is a function of both the aircraft performance and pilot experience? He agreed that was a fair statement.

He too agreed that a low inspection pass was "necessary" to conduct an off-airport landing.

Still, he offered all manner of testimony about what would have happened had its engined had failed (and BTW, its a KitFox V. I have seen helicopters take more distance to land) and the (in)appropriateness of Trent's chosen landing site (over my objection, of course).

Oh, and according to this "pilot expert," when you are doing a low inspection pass for an off airport landing, you still must stay at least 500 feet away from "vehicles, vessels, structures and persons" on the ground. Riddle me this batman, how the F do you inspect a runway surface from 500 feet away?"

The FAA "pilot expert" too boasted in his resume (which I secured in discovery) that when he does a good job for the FAA, he gets - and I quote verbatim - "accolades, time-of, and cash awards." Part of his job is to hang pilots in enforcement actions.

I asked him on cross, "if this case goes the FAA's way, will you get "accolades, time-off or a cash award." Objection. Sustained.

If I had brought this "expert" to court, I would have been laughed out of the door.

At the FAA, this is business as usual.

I have NEVER seen such institutional bias in my life. This is hardly an independent expert who bring his wealth of experience to bear upon a set of facts to reach an informed opinion. He is whore, and an indentured one at that.

The FAA keeps food in his belly and a roof over his head. What do you think he is going to say in these proceedings?

From a few cubicles away .... "hey Bob, what are you doing today?" "Nothing why?" "We got this enforcement case and need you to testify against a pilot." "Sure. Be right there."

Apparently, if you hold a pilots certificate and work for the FAA, you are an "expert" about all things piloting. Your actual experience matters not.

Oh, I did ask him on cross in all the times he has testified for the FAA, how many times did he testify that the pilot did nothing wrong. Wait for it .... 0.

I will post his resume later so you can see it with your own eyes.

And folks, I am just scratching the surface here.

If I sound like I am disgusted, it is because I am.

Oh, and let me too add that this is not the only matter I have going now where the a pilot has been violated for doing EXACTLY what the FAA advised him to do.

It's getting old folks.

Trent is a very nice and earnest young man who has a passion for aviation who is VERY good at what he does and is by any reasonable measure, an excellent pilot, especially when it comes to off-airport operations. He simply does not deserve this.

# ? May 1, 2022 23:33

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Oh wow didn't see the Ceaușescu name-drop coming.

Do attorneys often make YouTube statements in ongoing cases?

# ? May 1, 2022 23:52

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

mobby_6kl posted:

Oh wow didn't see the Ceaușescu name-drop coming.

Do attorneys often make YouTube statements in ongoing cases?

No.

Read the statement (and maybe the original video) with the angle �it is illegal to intend to land an aircraft there in regular operations without other permission because it�s not an aerodrome and is within 500 ft of houses�.

Suddenly every point being made is irrelevant.

Are rulings about stuff like this published or would Trent or his lawyer have to publish it themselves.

# ? May 2, 2022 00:10

CarForumPoster: Jun 26, 2013; â¡POWERâ¡

Xakura posted:

Unsourced in a youtube comment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXR6LfvX-3Y

I am Trent's attorney.

EDIT: I read it now and some details of the case, can prob just skip over what I wrote below.

I didn�t read it but I work with litigation attorneys every day. That seems like a very risky thing for a competent attorney to post. Idk much about the FAAs administrative appeals and hearings processes and don�t even know what Trent is accused of but making a comment like this could be the basis for a malpractice claim depending on what Trent intends to do in the future. Maybe Trent reviews and approved that YouTube comment but�why not just make a press release? �or a YouTube video? Idk if the comment is fake but boy could it backfire in many versions of the world.

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 00:32 on May 2, 2022

# ? May 2, 2022 00:16

Kesper North: Nov 3, 2011; EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

quote:

Nicolae and Elena Ceaușescu got a fairer trial than Trent did.

What the gently caress

Just randomly reaching for bloodthirsty tyrants as your example?

# ? May 2, 2022 00:28

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

CarForumPoster posted:

I didn�t read it but I work with litigation attorneys every day. That seems like a very risky thing for a competent attorney to post. Idk much about the FAAs administrative appeals and hearings processes and don�t even know what Trent is accused of but making a comment like this could be the basis for a malpractice claim depending on what Trent intends to do in the future. Maybe Trent reviews and approved that YouTube comment but�why not just make a press release? �or a YouTube video? Idk if the comment is fake but boy could it backfire in many versions of the world.

on social media is just what you do when you face consequences now.

# ? May 2, 2022 00:31

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Dude�s a big proponent of the �pound the table� approach to law.

In fairness, sometimes it does work. Just ask the Bundys.

It�s a weird thing to do if the facts and law are on your side, but if you just lost an administrative hearing and you figure that your appeal with NTSB is a longshot at the best of times, maybe it looks attractive.

Platystemon fucked around with this message at 00:36 on May 2, 2022

# ? May 2, 2022 00:33

CarForumPoster: Jun 26, 2013; â¡POWERâ¡

Platystemon posted:

Dude�s a big proponent of the �pound the table� approach to law.

In fairness, sometimes it does work. Just ask the Bundys.

It�s a weird thing to do if the facts and law are on your side, but if you just lost an administrative hearing and you figure that your appeal with NTSB is a longshot at the best of times, maybe it looks attractive.

you pound the table in court though...the court of public opinion lacks jurisdiction

# ? May 2, 2022 01:01

babyeatingpsychopath: Oct 28, 2000; Forum Veteran

PeterCat posted:

Angels to some, demons to others.

Oh, I've slipped the surly bonds of earth
And hovered out of ground effect on semi-rigid blades;
Earthward I've auto'ed and met the rising brush of non-paved terrain
And done a thousand things you would never care to
Skidded and dropped and flared
Low in the heat soaked roar.
Confined there, I've chased the earthbound traffic
And lost the race to insignificant headwinds;
Forward and up a little in ground effect
I've topped the General's hedge with drooping turns
Where never Skyhawk or even Phantom flew.
Shaking and pulling collective,
I've lumbered The low untresspassed halls of victor airways,
Put out my hand and touched a tree.

I'm glad they finally sent a poet into a helicopter. And that they survived the ordeal.

# ? May 2, 2022 01:48

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

hobbesmaster posted:

No.

Read the statement (and maybe the original video) with the angle �it is illegal to intend to land an aircraft there in regular operations without other permission because it�s not an aerodrome and is within 500 ft of houses�.

Suddenly every point being made is irrelevant.

Are rulings about stuff like this published or would Trent or his lawyer have to publish it themselves.

Yeah, christ alive, I feel like I'm living in crazy town because I've dared to say "maybe landing a plane off-airport near houses (or any step in the attempt to do so) is a stupid loving idea and you shouldn't do it except in an emergency."

I've flown into my buddy's farm strip, he said I could in exchange for some cold beer, as a training exercise for one of my students. Great guy, nice strip, and the important thing is: that poo poo's registered with TC and appears in the CFS. It ain't fancy, but TC looked at it and said "yep, cool, that's safe to land a plane on and then take off again." I'm not saying you have to keep your operations to paved runways, but if you aren't operating in bumfuck nowhere, you need to exercise some discretion and sometimes that involves saying to your regulating authority "yes, here's the dimensions of my landing surface, under normal regulations you can make a safe approach and departure, etc."

Sorry, this is aviation. You don't get to do whatever the gently caress you like. I can't buy a plane and sell tickets to people even as a licensed commercial pilot because that's an air taxi service and it's subject to CARs 703. That's the way she goes. Don't like it, don't buy a plane. You aren't owed unfettered access to our collective airspace to do whatever you please. Off-airport crap is very much an issue of "I don't want to see the issue slide across my desk" and if you aren't looking at it that way as a pilot, you're being ridiculous. Don't do it near people who aren't on board with what you're doing; discretion is the better part of valor.

The number one thing that being a safe pilot demands is: good judgement. I've seen students with great judgement and honestly, fairly poo poo stick and rudder skills, and I'd sign them out solo as a formality more than anything. No stress for me; it's a 172, the most forgiving plane on earth. I've done recurrent training for licensed pilots who do dumb things... my writing hand cramps up for that one.

# ? May 2, 2022 02:21

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

I guess it�d be pretty funny to just start quizzing a
cop about car parts under oath.

I mean, funny to the people that didn�t do that after admitting they were going 20 over the speed limit but my car can totally handle it. See? This cop doesn�t even know what a supercharger is!

Edit: actually thinking about showing up with an expensive lawyer for a speeding ticket in your expensive car is sometimes an ok way to avoid getting action taken against your license - the prosecutor and judge might have no time for any of that table pounding delaying followed by actually having to respond to your annoying appeal. Mainly applicable to non Virginia states�

hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 2, 2022

# ? May 2, 2022 02:42

PeterCat: Apr 8, 2020; Believe women.

I don't know, I guess it's my rotary wing background, but I tend to look at the whole Earth as an LZ.

I suppose for the guy in question it should have been "No runway? No. Problem!"

Only registered members can see post attachments!

PeterCat fucked around with this message at 03:35 on May 2, 2022

# ? May 2, 2022 03:28

Cat Hatter: Oct 24, 2006; Hatters gonna hat.

Xakura posted:

Unsourced in a youtube comment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXR6LfvX-3Y

I am Trent's attorney.

I'm trying really hard to keep an open mind about this case because we hardly know any details, but the stuff they go on about and the stuff they leave out really sounds like it was "you could see on Google maps that the runway was way too close to people's houses, certainly by the time you were 1000 feet overhead".

# ? May 2, 2022 03:46

ImplicitAssembler: Jan 24, 2013

PeterCat posted:

Angels to some, demons to others.

Oh, I've slipped the surly bonds of earth
And hovered out of ground effect on semi-rigid blades;
Earthward I've auto'ed and met the rising brush of non-paved terrain
And done a thousand things you would never care to
Skidded and dropped and flared
Low in the heat soaked roar.
Confined there, I've chased the earthbound traffic
And lost the race to insignificant headwinds;
Forward and up a little in ground effect
I've topped the General's hedge with drooping turns
Where never Skyhawk or even Phantom flew.
Shaking and pulling collective,
I've lumbered The low untresspassed halls of victor airways,
Put out my hand and touched a tree.

Hah! Gonna steal this.

# ? May 2, 2022 08:51

PeterCat: Apr 8, 2020; Believe women.

ImplicitAssembler posted:

Hah! Gonna steal this.

Go for it, I stole it a long time ago.

# ? May 2, 2022 09:56

Warbird: May 23, 2012; America's Favorite Dumbass

PeterCat posted:

I don't know, I guess it's my rotary wing background, but I tend to look at the whole Earth as an LZ.

I suppose for the guy in question it should have been "No runway? No. Problem!"

Wasn�t there some moron that landed his chopper at a Dairy Queen a few months back? I think I remember them pulling his license.

# ? May 2, 2022 13:17

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 26, 2024 02:15

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Jesus Christ are they just going to sedate the people in economy class.

https://twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1521029180955189251

# ? May 2, 2022 14:07

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

«‹›2240 »