Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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Oxygenpoisoning: Feb 21, 2006

verbal enema posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri-eLv5ULls

this looks pretty cool

love that song

When a daddy Wolfenstien and a mommy Wizardry love each other very much�.

# ? May 2, 2022 01:42

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# ? May 30, 2024 07:00

Barudak: May 7, 2007

verbal enema posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri-eLv5ULls

this looks pretty cool

love that song

Ive been psychically demanding this so good to know someone else heard it in their sleep and made it real

# ? May 2, 2022 01:45

catlord: Mar 22, 2009; What's on your mind, Axa?

It's been out for a bit, but I finally got around to playing French Meat 2 for Blood. It's pretty good! I've always had good things to say about French Meat (though playing through 1 again before I did 2, it does have some pretty rough resource management), but 2 is a step above. I did not expect it to be so tropical, but it was delightful.

Some shots from one of the later maps that highly amused me:

# ? May 2, 2022 02:17

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

verbal enema posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri-eLv5ULls

this looks pretty cool

love that song

The knife nazi mocks me with his smug aura

# ? May 2, 2022 03:29

treat: Jul 24, 2008; by the sex ghost

catlord posted:

It's been out for a bit, but I finally got around to playing French Meat 2 for Blood. It's pretty good! I've always had good things to say about French Meat (though playing through 1 again before I did 2, it does have some pretty rough resource management), but 2 is a step above. I did not expect it to be so tropical, but it was delightful.

Some shots from one of the later maps that highly amused me:

this is build engine soma

# ? May 2, 2022 05:10

An Actual Princess: Dec 23, 2006

i'm having an issue with gzdoom; sounds that are behind me sound way far away or not played at all. it's as if it thinks i have surround sound and is outputting to those speakers, but i only have 2.1.

this thread describes the exact same issue but didn't seem to have a resolution. What do I do. Help.

# ? May 2, 2022 05:22

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Is hrtf enabled

# ? May 2, 2022 05:28

An Actual Princess: Dec 23, 2006

site posted:

Is hrtf enabled

happens whether it's on or off. no difference.

# ? May 2, 2022 05:32

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

catlord posted:

It's been out for a bit, but I finally got around to playing French Meat 2 for Blood. It's pretty good! I've always had good things to say about French Meat (though playing through 1 again before I did 2, it does have some pretty rough resource management), but 2 is a step above. I did not expect it to be so tropical, but it was delightful.

Some shots from one of the later maps that highly amused me:

What�s the source port of choice for Blood mods? Don�t think I�ve ever played one.

# ? May 2, 2022 05:46

catlord: Mar 22, 2009; What's on your mind, Axa?

Casimir Radon posted:

What�s the source port of choice for Blood mods? Don�t think I�ve ever played one.

Fresh Supply should work fine, as far as I know. I use Raze personally. Blood/BuildGDX was great but I haven't used it in ages. Never tried NBlood, but it's the basis for Blood support in Raze so I expect it to be fine.

# ? May 2, 2022 05:49

An Actual Princess: Dec 23, 2006

nm i figured it out. disabling audio enhancements in my sound card properties fixed it ...? computers are loving weird

# ? May 2, 2022 06:43

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

huh. are you using dsoal for some games? disabling it is part of setting that up but I've never heard of needing to do it otherwise

# ? May 2, 2022 06:51

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Casimir Radon posted:

What�s the source port of choice for Blood mods? Don�t think I�ve ever played one.

Fresh Supply is pretty good, and it has a great Custom Difficulty mode (Made to Order) and some awesome scripting stuff for gameplay mods, but it has some minor remaining bugs and likely won't get any further updates due to the whole Atari thing.

nBlood extends limits and adds some extra level creation functionality, so it's good for the new generation of custom maps.

Raze is basically nBlood inside of GZDoom's rendering/input backend, so mouse controls will be a bit nicer but one or two of the new mapping features might still be missing.

# ? May 2, 2022 07:35

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Of some relevance:
https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1521010532655923200

# ? May 2, 2022 07:57

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Good News: Deus Ex is coming back, baby, I feel it in my bowns

Bad News: Can't buy it because its from Embracer Group

# ? May 2, 2022 07:59

Turin Turambar: Jun 5, 2011

The Kins posted:

Of some relevance:
https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1521010532655923200

I was reading it. Gloomwood dev should be given the Thief license in a publishing deal, that's my take.

# ? May 2, 2022 08:01

catlord: Mar 22, 2009; What's on your mind, Axa?

Huh, weird.

# ? May 2, 2022 08:46

Al Cu Ad Solte: Nov 30, 2005; Searching for
a righteous cause

Who'll misinterpret what made Deus Ex good this time! :allears:

# ? May 2, 2022 11:17

chaosapiant: Oct 10, 2012; White Line Fever

I�ve never heard of Embracer Group.

# ? May 2, 2022 11:33

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

chaosapiant posted:

I�ve never heard of Embracer Group.

Swedish media holding/video game company. I guess at least it's not Activision or Tencent?

# ? May 2, 2022 11:40

kirbysuperstar: Nov 11, 2012; Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

chaosapiant posted:

I�ve never heard of Embracer Group.

They're THQNordic, big fans of 8chan

# ? May 2, 2022 11:44

Turin Turambar: Jun 5, 2011

Tim Willits is one the bosses there.

# ? May 2, 2022 11:45

Cat Machine: Jun 18, 2008

kirbysuperstar posted:

They're THQNordic, big fans of 8chan

Crazy that I�ve seen news of this takeover all over the internet today but this is the first time I�ve heard someone acknowledge this. They must have a serious PR team!

# ? May 2, 2022 11:57

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

kirbysuperstar posted:

They're THQNordic, big fans of 8chan

Turin Turambar posted:

Tim Willits is one the bosses there.

OH.

A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 12:02 on May 2, 2022

# ? May 2, 2022 11:58

Turin Turambar: Jun 5, 2011

Well, it's old news. It happened three years ago.

# ? May 2, 2022 12:00

kirbysuperstar: Nov 11, 2012; Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

Turin Turambar posted:

Tim Willits is one the bosses there.

lmao I forgot about that

# ? May 2, 2022 12:05

Turin Turambar: Jun 5, 2011

Barudak posted:

Good News: Deus Ex is coming back, baby, I feel it in my bowns

Bad News: Can't buy it because its from Embracer Group

But they have Deep Rock Galactic. :/

# ? May 2, 2022 12:15

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

Ah poo poo, Embracer also includes Gearbox and... Randy.

# ? May 2, 2022 12:28

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Embracer also includes Saber Interactive, 3D Realms, 4A Games, Flying Wild Hog, and an utter ton of other less-relevant-to-this-thread stuff (including... hang on... Dark Horse Comics? Are you making GBS threads me?), along with a butchers-dozen of random IPs like Painkiller. They'll unfortunately be keeping themselves well in discussion ITT despite all that pesky smoke that seems to keep wafting up around them.

# ? May 2, 2022 12:45

Baron von Eevl: Jan 24, 2005; WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR
🔊😴

Did Willits do anything bad beyond the "I invented multiplayer maps" and "I invented episode 1 of quake" bullshit? In the modern world that's incredibly small potatoes as far as terrible poo poo goes.

# ? May 2, 2022 12:47

KOGAHAZAN!!: Apr 29, 2013; a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Baron von Eevl posted:

Did Willits do anything bad beyond the "I invented multiplayer maps" and "I invented episode 1 of quake" bullshit? In the modern world that's incredibly small potatoes as far as terrible poo poo goes.

Created an incredibly toxic work environment of bullying and backbiting that forced American McGee and Sandy Petersen out of the company?

The Rocket Jump retrospective has this to say:

quote:

American McGee stepped into the art room and froze. John Carmack sat at a table beside Adrian Carmack and Kevin Cloud. The three co-owners wasted no time on platitudes.

"They said simply, 'We're letting you go,'" McGee remembered. "I said, 'Why?' They said, 'We just don't think you fit with the team anymore.' That was it. They didn't give me any more explanation than that. Being fired from id was simultaneously the best and worst day of my life."

McGee walked in a daze, packing up his desk and heading home for the last time. Driving his usual route, he reflected on the last few months, wondering if his termination shared anything in common with an equally surprising departure months earlier.

Veteran developer Sandy Petersen had tendered his resignation midway through Quake 2's development. Jaquays remembered feeling shocked and a little betrayed. "When Sandy Petersen hired me at id, it was on the premise that I was being hired as a level designer to replace John Romero, what John Romero had contributed to the company as a level designer," she recalled. "What I found five years later, when I left id and went to Ensemble Studios where Sandy was working, was that Sandy had hired me to replace him. He knew he was out the door [when he hired me]."

The cohesion of Quake 2's elements ended up in stark contrast to the chaos eating away at id behind closed doors. While Petersen declined to comment on the reason for his departure, he spoke of the toxicity he perceived at the studio. Purportedly, one source of that toxicity was Tim Willits.

"It went from a whole bunch of guys working really hard to make the best games we could, to feeling more like a bunch of jackals eating a carcass," Petersen said. "If you've ever seen, like a National Geographic image of that, the carcass still gets eaten pretty fast, so it's an efficient process, but it's not very pleasant to watch. All the jackals are snapping and snarling at each other. That's kind of where [our culture] went, from us all being a team to looking over our shoulders. It was a great team, and even the toxic version [of the team] was able to make good games."

American McGee was no stranger to Tim Willits' alleged behavior. One morning a year or so earlier, McGee had stepped into the Town East Tower's elevator. Willits entered with him. Before long, Willits turned to him, grinning.

"He turns to me and he goes, 'Hey, did you ever have butt sex with your ex-girlfriend?' We all knew each other; he knew my ex-girlfriend," McGee recalled. "I remember saying something like, 'Tim, gently caress off,' or 'I don't know what you're talking about.' And he looks at me and he goes, 'Well, I had it last night, and it was great.' And that was it, and he walked away."

McGee did his best to ignore Willits. Around the office, he'd become infamous for needling anyone he considered equal to or below his station. His goal, McGee speculated, was to get them so riled up they could not concentrate on their work. One morning McGee had found a series of Post-It notes stuck to his door. Each contained crude language. McGee assumed Willits was the perpetrator, but no one said anything, so he didn't speak up either.

"I think he was just trying to push everyone out of the way," McGee said. "Ultimately what he wanted was to be the main guy in control. He was incredibly ambitious and cared not for how he moved up, only that he moved up."

"He was definitely a politician," Adrian said. "As he liked to say, 'Never turn your back on a level designer.' Both he and American were politicians, but Tim could be brutal. If Tim had it out for you, it wasn't good for you."

According to Petersen, Willits had his eye on id's upper echelon of management from the moment he became a full-time hire. After Romero was fired, Willits had coveted McGee's status as John Carmack's golden boy. According to this developer, Willits set his sights on eliminating McGee. Their feud reached a boiling point when McGee ran into trouble designing levels for Quake 2.

"American could tell something [was not right]," Petersen said. "So he went to Carmack and said, 'What should I do?' John Carmack said, 'Okay, to make your levels look better, go and talk to Tim.' And Tim Willits could make absolutely spectacular-looking levels. They were great levels. He said, 'Talk to Tim. Look to him to show you how to make your levels look really nice.'"

Willits deployed misdirection to further attenuate McGee's status with management. When McGee submitted new and revised levels for appraisal, Carmack lost his temper and accused him of doing A when he had expressly wanted B.

"American was horrified," Petersen said. "He said, 'Yes, I did just what he said.' Basically, what had happened was Tim Willits had literally told American the opposite of what he should do, to get him in trouble with John Carmack. And Carmack couldn't believe it. Who could be that dirty? He absolutely refused to believe that Willits had done it, but he had. That was Tim Willits literally tanking American McGee."

McGee remembers the situation differently. Carmack had no say in level design, and would not have given him or any other designer an evaluation. Any feedback would have come from Adrian Carmack, Kevin Cloud, or the studio's de facto lead level designer. "That's not to say he didn't. I just don't recall it," McGee said. "Somebody, Tim or someone else, would come to me and say, 'This isn't really the direction we want you to go. Why don't you try something different?' I think at that point, they had unofficially elevated him to lead level designer. He had purview over that process, sort of the instruction-and-review process. I remember he had been elevated to a position above mine, for sure."

Whether Carmack reviewed McGee's levels or not, he may well have had trouble believing Willits would sabotage a coworker. A troublemaker and brownnoser, he was also considered the best level designer on staff.

"I will say that I'm not a huge fan of Tim Willits, but Tim Willits got Quake 2 done," Jaquays said. "He built a lot of the content that ended up in Quake 2. The lion's share of content is stuff that he developed."

American McGee not only recognized Willits' ability. He confessed to his own failings. "I feel certain he was a large part of the reason I got fired," said McGee. "But in saying that, I also want to be very clear that I also had my own issues and weaknesses. I don't think he could be called the primary cause [of my termination], but I definitely think he was high on the list."

"The owners didn't know at the time, but we found out later about Tim, and how he told American to do the opposite," confirmed Adrian Carmack. "Yeah, he did that, but that wasn't what got American fired. The writing was already on the wall: American was either going to leave of his own accord, or [be fired]. That one incident wasn't the final nail in the coffin."

McGee could feel his interest in the job slipping. His run-ins with the likes of Tim Willits and Paul Steed, coupled with the long hours, had taken their toll. Money didn't help matters. Far from being broke, McGee was 23 years old and flush with cash. Like many of his peers, he spent extravagantly, buying cars, clothes, a house, and eating out almost every meal. The parties were his true weakness. After working 100-hour weeks, he cut loose with friends, a habit that put his work performance in jeopardy.

"Hooking up with the Nine Inch Nails guys led to a level of partying I wasn't accustomed to," McGee said. "I know there were more than a few weekends when I was able to rest, but instead I would party so that when I would go into work on Monday, I wouldn't be 100 percent. I think that sort of thing definitely started to become noticeable to others."

Peers did notice. "Brandon James and I, and even John Cash, had to go in, fix, and in some places, complete American's levels in Quake 2 in the final days before we went gold," said Jaquays. She and the others had to review McGee's levels and add bits and pieces he had forgotten, such as starting locations for multiple players.

"I think there were times when everyone there might have been able to look at me and say, 'You're having a bit too much fun outside of the company,'" McGee admitted. "Sometimes I was hanging out with them more than was necessarily required to get music and sound effects done. But, again, I was a 23-year-old kid being told I can hang out with rock stars and smoke cigarettes with David Bowie. It was like, I like my job and all, but if you don't mind I'd like to go over here and have a little fun. I guess that wasn't the proper response."

As McGee's problems mounted, his relationship with John Carmack soured. While McGee's behavior was grounds for their friendship to erode, id's tech guru had a reputation for distancing himself from those whom he believed had fallen out of sync with his goals. "My fianc� at the time didn't like us living next door to John Carmack, because Carmack would come over unannounced quite often and want to bounce ideas off of me. She really wanted us to leave that house," said McGee.

McGee and his fianc� sold their house next to Carmack and moved a few miles away. That proximity gave them more privacy, but it also removed McGee from a person who, he realized in retrospect, had been a stabilizing force. "It put me in a situation where I didn't have a big brother-type living next door to keep me under control for fear he might pop over at any time. I definitely think there was a sort of downward spiral."

After finishing Quake 2, McGee and many other developers took extended leaves to catch up on rest and piece together their personal lives. When McGee returned, Adrian Carmack and Kevin Cloud assigned him tasks he found bewildering. "I remember the artists being very weird toward me," remembered McGee. "Adrian and Kevin started tasking me to produce geometry. They would say, 'Come up with a new design idea for a door, and the arch surrounding the door.' I couldn't quite get my head around what they were asking me to do in terms of what was going to satisfy their requests."

In early March of 1998, McGee was fired by Adrian Carmack, Kevin Cloud, and John Carmack. Years of frustration and fatigue boiled over. "I remember breaking down right there in the room," McGee said. "Just saying, 'What? Why?' And they just kept repeating 'It's not a match' or 'It's not working out.' They wouldn't give me any more concrete information than that."

By the time McGee pulled into his driveway, he felt more at peace. For all his mistakes, working 16 to 18 hours a day, six or seven days a week, had been untenable. After finishing Quake 2, he had contemplated approaching management with a request that the studio as a whole ease off the gas. Recuperating for a few weeks or months was futile if it meant the developers were resting just to slip back into crunching.

Perhaps being fired would turn out to be a blessing. The time had come for McGee to stretch his wings and try something new.

"I thought, What's going on? Why am I feeling like this? Why do I feel relieved? I inspected it, and ultimately realized I was glad to get out of there. I was glad to get away from it," McGee said. "I feel bad about the way it ended and the loss of friendship with John. I think I mishandled some things there. I was quite young."

# ? May 2, 2022 13:00

Baron von Eevl: Jan 24, 2005; WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR
🔊😴

Ok yeah that makes sense. I could only remember the dumb map things.

# ? May 2, 2022 13:01

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

I always get Tom Hall and Tim Willits (visually) mixed up. Also, what are the odds for two unrelated Carmacks to work at the same studio?

Also also, I can't be the only one who got really familiar with these names from seeing the credits to Wolf, Doom, and Commander Keen so many times as a kid can I? Same with Tim Sweeney from Epic, after playing a poo poo load of Jill of the Jungle.

# ? May 2, 2022 13:36

Al Cu Ad Solte: Nov 30, 2005; Searching for
a righteous cause

Civvie. Outlaws. Draw. :clint:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXNNhF-fJkA

# ? May 2, 2022 13:48

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Wasn't literally everyone at id ceremoniously fired except Tim and Kevin?

I guess John resigned, but given the whole lawsuit situation that sounds more like an unceremonious firing or something.

# ? May 2, 2022 14:30

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

Turin Turambar posted:

I was reading it. Gloomwood dev should be given the Thief license in a publishing deal, that's my take.

Seeing the price that Square sold it all off, Thief IP is probably valued less than a bottle of whiskey in Dave Oshry's cabinet.

# ? May 2, 2022 14:32

Deakul: Apr 2, 2012; PAM PA RAM

PAM PAM PARAAAAM!

verbal enema posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri-eLv5ULls

this looks pretty cool

love that song

This just makes me want Doom 1/2 RPG + Wolfenstein RPG to get PC releases... did anyone ever make turn based/grid based Doom wads?

# ? May 2, 2022 14:59

Jiro: Jan 13, 2004

verbal enema posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri-eLv5ULls

this looks pretty cool

love that song

The digging reminds me of Minecraft, it's weird that the emphasis of trench warfare being so prevalent and the flavor is WWII and not WWI.

I hope the RPG story is pretty fleshed out since it looks like loot you can get to alter the story can gently caress you over. Party betrayals etc

# ? May 2, 2022 19:51

verbal enema: May 23, 2009; onlymarfans.com

If you're not familiar with them ABG does a ton of retro-y stuff especially FPSs

# ? May 2, 2022 20:07

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# ? May 30, 2024 07:00

bbcisdabomb: Jan 15, 2008; SHEESH

Al Cu Ad Solte posted:

Civvie. Outlaws. Draw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXNNhF-fJkA

I've been meaning to play Outlaws eventually but is every level in Outlaws that bare? There's all sorts of Western flair but from the video it look like there's just nothing around except buildings.

# ? May 2, 2022 23:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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