UKMT Spring 2022 - Beer for Keir, Beef for Keith

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Spring 2022 - Beer for Keir, Beef for Keith

«‹›248 »

Borrovan: Aug 15, 2013; IT IS ME.
🧑‍💼
I AM THERESA MAY

Guavanaut posted:

That or 'none of the above' and if that wins someone is selected by sortition from the constituency roll.

Idk who this Ron guy is but I've been hearing great things about him

# ? May 2, 2022 16:48

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 26, 2024 15:51

Mebh: May 10, 2010

If unvote wins, they just round up 650 people from the beach on a sunny day in Great Yarmouth. Over 100 mps are seagulls and just poo poo everywhere while demanding chip sandwiches.
Still works out as better opposition, but they also refuse to reinstate Corbyn for some reason.

# ? May 2, 2022 16:48

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Mebh posted:

If unvote wins, they just round up 650 people from the beach on a sunny day in Great Yarmouth. Over 100 mps are seagulls and just poo poo everywhere while demanding chip sandwiches.
Still works out as better opposition, but they also refuse to reinstate Corbyn for some reason.

i guess they didn't like being nationalised

# ? May 2, 2022 16:50

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Famously a foe to seagulls for nationalizing them.

E: ^ :argh:

# ? May 2, 2022 16:50

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

OwlFancier posted:

I still think you should be able to do an unvote.

Rather than voting for people you should also be able to vote against them and it subtracts one from their vote count.

LAB -20 but it's the result not the change.

# ? May 2, 2022 17:41

keep punching joe: Jan 22, 2006; Die Satan!

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1521162753372823552?t=WMesDpUbh9x-r65ijN2OeQ

# ? May 2, 2022 17:43

Dead Goon: Dec 13, 2002; No Obvious Flaws

Just finished the first chapter of that Kieth Starmer book and wow, I disliked him before, but a seething hatred is now forming.

Hold your nose and vote Labour apologists can get in the loving sea.

# ? May 2, 2022 18:26

Tarnop: Nov 25, 2013; Pull me out

Bobby Deluxe posted:

If the choice is between the polite beginnings of fascism or outright fascism, i'll choose the one that gets us a step back from outright fascism, and concentrate my efforts for real change elsewhere.

The problem is that there's vanishingly little evidence to support this framing of the choice. The most nakedly fascist ideas to come from the current tory government are all reheated New Labour, and current Labour welcomed the person behind most of them back into the fold.

I haven't read this Starmer book yet but it doesn't bode well that everyone who is reading it seems to be coming back to the thread saying "maybe Labour would be worse"

# ? May 2, 2022 18:44

Mebh: May 10, 2010

The Tories seem to like porn, drugs and parties. Even if they're total bastards with no sense of maybe "when" those things might be OK. Labour right are also total bastards but seem to want to just crack down on all fun?

A gross simplification, but honestly I think as they are right now they'd make it all so much worse trying to appeal to an imaginary NORMAN!! screaming voter.

# ? May 2, 2022 18:52

NotJustANumber99: Feb 15, 2012; somehow that last av was even worse than your posting

Sorry can someone link/name the starmer book again please thx.

# ? May 2, 2022 19:07

Tarnop: Nov 25, 2013; Pull me out

FWIW, I do agree that any message sent to parties from the ballot box will be interpreted as "we need to get more right wing!". However (and I'm talking about a general election here, not locals) there's a message that definitely does get sent and heard when a right wing labour party win, and that is to the people who vote for them: Labour will tell you they're going to help you and then make things worse. 25 years on and our political landscape is still shaped by the fact that New Labour killed the idea of hopeful politics stone-dead for many people while bolstering the argument of anyone who says that politicians are all as bad as each other.

NotJustANumber99 posted:

Sorry can someone link/name the starmer book again please thx.

https://www.versobooks.com/books/3969-the-starmer-project

# ? May 2, 2022 19:09

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Bobby Deluxe posted:

Like I said before, it's like having a gun to your head and choosing poo poo in your face or poo poo in your mouth. Both are horrible. The choice shouldn't have gotten to that point. But the caveat is that if you don't choose, the people who actually like poo poo in their mouth are going to choose for you anyway.

You can argue about trying to wrestle the gun off the guy, try to argue about the riduculousness of the choice, try to run, but the point is those are not part of the choice, they are external to it. Your options are still two horrible outcomes, one slightly less horrible than the other. You might as well choose the slightly less horrible one and concentrate your efforts elsewhere to make sure the choice never gets that bad again.

Now that doesn't mean you don't still have power to affect change. Pod James has mentioned a few times about this process of institutions parallel to power (which I am probably misunderstanding). Look at the change brought about by Jack Monroe over economy food ranges. Look at Marcus Rashford managing to shame the tories into properly managing food parcels. Doesn't always work - look at XR and Insulate Britain. Doesn't mean it's not worth trying.

The biggest example has probably been the unions, who even throughout the Blair years were able to keep workers rights from being totally decimated by threatening to pull funding. They are not a political party and you can't vote for them. But they can achieve a huge influence politically. So don't vote for kieth, vote for the unions.

Again, you can see how far the Labour right have sunk that they seem to be trying to push the unions into leaving and bankrupting the party entirely, as long as there are no leftists.

Change can be achieved. There is still hope. There are food banks, charities, advocacy groups, unions and social movements who are working together and trying to influence change from outside the system.

The left isn't dead, it just has to decouple itself from party politics for a while, because right now politics is a rigged game.

But if you don't play your move in that game the other side still wins uncontested.

If we vote for them, they'll ignore us and continue to try to get rid of us. If we don't vote, they'll say we let the tories in. If we vote against them they'll do the same. There is no way to 'send a message' to someone who is trying their hardest not to listen. I'm not saying that no message matters, I'm saying you can't send a message by voting other that 'we don't want the tories,' which is still a good message.

But you're not voting for labour. You're voting against the tories. You don't have to campaign for Labour or pretend Kieth is great, you just have to begrudgingly go put a tick in a box.

If the choice is between the polite beginnings of fascism or outright fascism, i'll choose the one that gets us a step back from outright fascism, and concentrate my efforts for real change elsewhere.

lib

# ? May 2, 2022 19:14

NotJustANumber99: Feb 15, 2012; somehow that last av was even worse than your posting

Regarde Aduck posted:

lib

Pretty lovely one word response to all that.

# ? May 2, 2022 19:41

sebzilla: Mar 17, 2009; Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.

lol, lmao

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1521054918144106502?t=rtWFA_ZdqTBRsIcpVOWvjQ&s=19

# ? May 2, 2022 19:45

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

He can call me whatever he likes, I just feel like I'm going insane when I come into the marxism thread and see takes like 'the tories might actually be better than labour.'

# ? May 2, 2022 19:46

Noxville: Dec 7, 2003

Bobby Deluxe posted:

I honestly don't think they care, and if they do lose they'll blame it on Long Corbyn and the papers will go with it.

Most of the people doing the damage are perfectly happy taking the free ride of being in opposition. The goal isn't to win, the goal is to destroy the party left. That's why Jessflips et al were so happy when they lost under Corbyn.

Well yeah, nothing short of a truly catastrophic defeat is gonna shift Labour�s priorities so gently caress �em, it doesn�t matter, don�t be held hostage by Labour and vote who you want.

# ? May 2, 2022 19:48

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Bobby Deluxe posted:

He can call me whatever he likes, I just feel like I'm going insane when I come into the marxism thread and see takes like 'the tories might actually be better than labour.'

The analogy of the ratchet makes most sense IMO, you can vote for the ratchet arm to be pulled back or pulled forward, but either outcome is advancing the mechanism.

# ? May 2, 2022 19:50

NotJustANumber99: Feb 15, 2012; somehow that last av was even worse than your posting

OwlFancier posted:

The analogy of the ratchet makes most sense IMO, you can vote for the ratchet arm to be pulled back or pulled forward, but either outcome is advancing the mechanism.

And it leaves available the spanner in the works to continue the analogy.

# ? May 2, 2022 20:05

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Mask chat

Just seen a photo a friend posted of their flight from Bristol Airport to Gran Canaria and looks like every single person on the plane is wearing a mask.

# ? May 2, 2022 21:05

Mebh: May 10, 2010

I really want to buy one of these to wear with my mask for shopping in asda and buying my morning coffee at McD's

# ? May 2, 2022 21:18

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Bobby Deluxe posted:

He can call me whatever he likes, I just feel like I'm going insane when I come into the marxism thread and see takes like 'the tories might actually be better than labour.'

Blame that on Labour going completely batshit, though, not us. They're the least internally democratic party in the UK, and that's let them be completely taken over by an insular, extremist cult who are openly embracing far-right authoritarianism and daring the Tories to keep up.

# ? May 2, 2022 21:23

josh04: Oct 19, 2008; "THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"
_{This title contains sponsored content.}

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Mask chat

Just seen a photo a friend posted of their flight from Bristol Airport to Gran Canaria and looks like every single person on the plane is wearing a mask.

Aside from the US where a Trump appointee judge struck down the FAA over it, flight authorities are pretty thorough with their covid regulations still and the flight attendants will intervene and ask you to put your mask (back) on.

# ? May 2, 2022 21:25

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

Not an economist, but this thread looked interesting - stats on the many myriad ways the country is collapsing:

https://twitter.com/technopopulist/status/1521122232097021953?t=C0G8xD_CwaV2nkL6IOwYLw&s=19

# ? May 2, 2022 21:28

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

optimistic calling it a situation for the conservative party, i mean i do sometimes think "surely if things get any worse then people will actually start not voting Tory" but i've been doing that on a regular basis for several years now

# ? May 2, 2022 22:09

Mebh: May 10, 2010

The healthcare one hit home for sure. Spending an ungodly amount due to a 2+ year wait list. loving nuts.

# ? May 2, 2022 22:13

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Bobby Deluxe posted:

Not an economist, but this thread looked interesting - stats on the many myriad ways the country is collapsing:

https://twitter.com/technopopulist/status/1521122232097021953?t=C0G8xD_CwaV2nkL6IOwYLw&s=19

And pinning out hope that electoralism will help is like waiting for Godot at this point.

Labour, as a class needs to tell Labour, as a party, to gently caress off and stay hosed off if they aren't going to help, as all too many of the last few years have shown.

# ? May 2, 2022 22:26

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Mask chat

Just seen a photo a friend posted of their flight from Bristol Airport to Gran Canaria and looks like every single person on the plane is wearing a mask.

Nae oval office using them on the bus anymore though, went to town today (got Misfits - Walk Among Us & a couple other things on vinyl...) and on the way in I was the only one still bothering. Well, that's not true, one person got on at the airport who was still wearing one. Still piss poor.

# ? May 2, 2022 22:59

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

forkboy84 posted:

Nae oval office using them on the bus anymore though, went to town today (got Misfits - Walk Among Us & a couple other things on vinyl...) and on the way in I was the only one still bothering. Well, that's not true, one person got on at the airport who was still wearing one. Still piss poor.

Die die die my darling (not on that album). Not listened to them for literally decades.

Now you've done it, I blame you entirely Forkboy. I'm on Broken Bones FOAD now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89QvaK9Zffc

I'm back in my 20s now. Suicidal Tendencies - I saw your mommy (hidden as might be triggerous).

Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 23:15 on May 2, 2022

# ? May 2, 2022 23:05

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

I love that band you spoilered. Skate Or Die is one of those tracks that as a teen was so cool I almost wanted to start skateboarding despite being a wimp and hideously uncoordinated

# ? May 2, 2022 23:52

NotJustANumber99: Feb 15, 2012; somehow that last av was even worse than your posting

Same. But Avril Lavigne.

# ? May 3, 2022 00:09

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

He wanted porn, she baled hay, what more can I say.

# ? May 3, 2022 00:15

ijyt: Apr 10, 2012

OwlFancier posted:

I still think you should be able to do an unvote.

Rather than voting for people you should also be able to vote against them and it subtracts one from their vote count.

drat, I wouldn't have to deliberate and try to dig up what my Greens want to do and whether my Lib Dems are worth the time and if my Labour is the bad kind of I could just veto Tory votes :swoon:

# ? May 3, 2022 00:16

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Just looked up who is standing in my county elections:

1 Independent (who looks like a typical tory but maybe I'm doing him an injustice), 1 labour (I know her, but I'm not a big fan of hers as a person, but I think she is reasonable politically), 1 tory, 1 green.

I'll probably vote for labour because it is local and she will probably do a decent county council job.

# ? May 3, 2022 00:23

Trickjaw: Jun 23, 2005; Nadie puede dar lo que no tiene

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Just looked up who is standing in my county elections:

1 Independent (who looks like a typical tory but maybe I'm doing him an injustice), 1 labour (I know her, but I'm not a big fan of hers as a person, but I think she is reasonable politically), 1 tory, 1 green.

I'll probably vote for labour because it is local and she will probably do a decent county council job.

Thankfully, no elections here, so no need for me agonise over it.

# ? May 3, 2022 01:23