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Asproigerosis posted:What the gently caress is wrong with HR? - the musical.
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Apr 28, 2022 19:50
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 18:51 |
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Asproigerosis posted:What the gently caress is wrong with HR? They consider me a professional in this field. Lol. Just lmao. There's so much wrong.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:39
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Who doesn’t like a good https://youtu.be/pFrMLRQIT_k
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Apr 28, 2022 21:31
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I'm really trying to not think about my genius idea of calling my old wow goon friend who's a legit mummer to do some struttin in the background in a wawa parking lot while I eat a cheesesteak during.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:53
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Absurd Alhazred posted:- the musical.
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Apr 29, 2022 00:35
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Gin_Rummy posted:It’s an internal recruiter. This is just the weird way bigger tech companies do things. They interview you, hire you, then figure out exactly where to put you. I’ve actually already interviewed with my hiring manager and that is what landed me the offer, the follow up is purely team matching and my chance to make sure it’s the right work environment for me. Theoretically, I probably could have received and accepted my official offer before having this follow up call if I was extremely dumb and impatient. So, re: all this bullshit I spoke with the hiring manager again last week, he specified certain parts of the day-to-day job and then concluded by saying he was going to have the recruiter send the paperwork. That was like mid-last week and I still haven’t heard/seen anything else from the recruiter. We are at about two weeks from “we would like to offer you” and, while I know the ins and outs of their benefits, I still do not have any idea on compensation… Am I at a point where I need to ping that recruiter and ask what’s going on? I expect he is still “waiting for a number,” but I figured when the HM said he was going to get him to push the paperwork that it meant I would hear from him again to talk numbers.
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May 2, 2022 14:32
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Tbh it sounds like you missed your chance to get some specific information from the HM (such as: "By 'paperwork' do you mean 'offer'? Where exactly are we in this process?", or: "Exactly what is the timetable I should expect to hear from your lazy rear end in a top hat recruiter?"). Now you're back to being stuck at the whims of the lazy rear end in a top hat recruiter (but I repeat myself), who regards you as already on the hook and can be safely ignored in favor of his other fishing lines until you break down and name a number so he can maximize his finder's fee at your expense. At any rate, gigacorps move very slowly.
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May 2, 2022 14:41
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We've been in the middle of hiring someone and a contract falls through that they were going to work on. We still like them, we still want to hire them, but business needs changed, so we slow roll them for a bit while hoping we can secure the funding. Or it takes longer to work through internal approval processes. Or the person who needs to sign off is on a two week vacation and then it takes a week to get it at the top of their inbox again. Or... Things slow down randomly for lots of reasons that have little to nothing to do with you. Part of why you shouldn't treat offers as real until you have the paperwork in hand with a start date (... and even then things can fall through...).
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May 2, 2022 14:54
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We're also staring at signs of a recession so companies may be taking more time to really consider new positions/replacements.
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May 2, 2022 15:59
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Welp, I am quitting by the end of the week (don't want to poison the water before our team event on wednesday and it doesn't change anything). Will keep interviewing over the next three months if there are any attractive offers, but if nothing better tickles my fancy I'll bite the bullet and do a two year contract, the upsides still outweigh the downsides. The negotiation with my boss clearly showed me that I don't need to give any more goodwill, and for my last 3,5 months I'll be payed slightly more at least. The whole meeting was poisoned and my ask was not even entertained, I got a precanned offer nowhere near where we should negotiate and a "we will talk mid november as long as you meet <demands>". gently caress this, I didn't think it would be this bad, but it is what it is and I am happy to take on a new challenge.
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May 2, 2022 16:03
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Sorry to hear but this is a common response. To pull the emotion out of it a little, you may be more valuable to another company than you are to your particular team. That isn't anyone's failing, it's just a sign that you need to move on. At least you can avoid any "What Ifs" as you look for that next chapter.
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May 2, 2022 16:26
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After a year or so of making ends meet through consulting and trying to get a new business off the ground that folded, it’s back to regular work to get enough capital for another run at it in a few years’ time. This was hard! Being a bit older (just turned 41), last job being senior and having had a career with lots of different roles made it really goddamn difficult to get an interview anywhere. But it made the actual interviews a lot easier. Takeaways from geriatric job-seeking: * Once you have had more than one or two jobs, you can control the framing of your work history in the interview by giving people an overview on your terms. Then you only have to answer questions on stuff that actually matters to them instead of filling in blanks. * A lot of people seem to like asking about things that went wrong or that you regret from former jobs, so have a couple of those lined up. * I’ve had good reactions a few times now to “is there anything that you still have concerns about?” as a closing question. * When the offer came in I lined up a call with the hiring manager to negotiate compensation, rather than communicating it via HR like when I was a dumb child. Offer came in quick, counter-offered at 10% higher and ended up 8% higher. Always negotiate even when your alternative is no job.
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May 2, 2022 16:44
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Beefeater1980 posted:After a year or so of making ends meet through consulting and trying to get a new business off the ground that folded, it’s back to regular work to get enough capital for another run at it in a few years’ time.  Excellent post, thanks for the writeup of tips and congrats on the offer.
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May 2, 2022 16:51
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Eric the Mauve posted:Tbh it sounds like you missed your chance to get some specific information from the HM (such as: "By 'paperwork' do you mean 'offer'? Where exactly are we in this process?", or: "Exactly what is the timetable I should expect to hear from your lazy rear end in a top hat recruiter?"). Now you're back to being stuck at the whims of the lazy rear end in a top hat recruiter (but I repeat myself), who regards you as already on the hook and can be safely ignored in favor of his other fishing lines until you break down and name a number so he can maximize his finder's fee at your expense. Am I ever at risk of losing out on the chance because we both played silent chicken for too long? I figured it wouldn’t hurt to just shoot a “hey is the offer in process?” message. If he eventually breaks down and messages me first, I can’t imagine it would be anything other than “hey have you arrived at a number yet?” Basically, it feels to me like all roads lead to “do you have a number yet?” and maybe it’s better to just force the issue.
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May 2, 2022 17:12
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Gin_Rummy posted:Am I ever at risk of losing out on the chance because we both played silent chicken for too long? I figured it wouldn’t hurt to just shoot a “hey is the offer in process?” message. If he eventually breaks down and messages me first, I can’t imagine it would be anything other than “hey have you arrived at a number yet?” Basically, it feels to me like all roads lead to “do you have a number yet?” and maybe it’s better to just force the issue. Yes, you can get lost in the shuffle. Don’t go too long without contact, and when they say “we’ll get back to you” or whatever, set a timeline for when you’ll reach out. You can also just tell them to poo poo or get off the pot if you don’t want to wait, though there’s a high risk that they will get off.
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May 2, 2022 17:22
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At some point if they are insistent that the next step is you naming a number, you gotta decide if you are going to do that or walk away or else they'll walk away for you. It might be worth doing some research around what a higher-end number would be.
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May 2, 2022 17:37
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Lockback posted:At some point if they are insistent that the next step is you naming a number, you gotta decide if you are going to do that or walk away or else they'll walk away for you. It might be worth doing some research around what a higher-end number would be. Numbers are pretty readily available for this kind of stuff in my field, so I know almost exactly what to aim for. But even then, the advice thus far has been overwhelmingly “don’t give a number” so I held the line. I think I am comfortable giving a high number to work off of if they absolutely force it, but I definitely prefer to negotiate from their starting point.
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May 2, 2022 17:43
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Gin_Rummy posted:Numbers are pretty readily available for this kind of stuff in my field, so I know almost exactly what to aim for. But even then, the advice thus far has been overwhelmingly “don’t give a number” so I held the line. I think I am comfortable giving a high number to work off of if they absolutely force it, but I definitely prefer to negotiate from their starting point. If you know their ranges and you can essentially already plot within a fairly tight range where you will land, you shouldn't worry so much about the "name a number first" thing. That advice is for people who are in an information disadvantage (which is the majority of the time, especially when you are asking the internet for help), but if you are not then the playing field changes. You might be better anchoring first, in this case. If you know for a fact that, for instance, $120 is going to be your best case scenario regardless, it's easier to get there starting at 135 than it will be to climb there from 105. You can look up the negotiating tactic of "Anchoring" here. I feel like if you have this kind of traction and you already know the salary ranges, letting this offer die on the vine because your avoiding naming a number is probably a missed opportunity. This is why I kinda push back on the number thing. On the internet, people turn anything with subtly and nuance into ironclad rules. It is good advice, but all advice is situational.
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May 2, 2022 19:31
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If a company was leading me on for weeks I'd already be interviewing somewhere else. If nothing else maybe the others would give me offers to anchor myself with.
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May 2, 2022 19:34
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Gin_Rummy posted:Numbers are pretty readily available for this kind of stuff in my field, so I know almost exactly what to aim for. But even then, the advice thus far has been overwhelmingly “don’t give a number” so I held the line. I think I am comfortable giving a high number to work off of if they absolutely force it, but I definitely prefer to negotiate from their starting point. So if you can come up with a pretty informed number there’s less risk that you’re just gonna outright hose yourself.
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May 2, 2022 20:02
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So a place I interviewed at twice before had promised me a call at an exact date and time about how we proceed. Call never came so I wrote them off as bad faith actors, now their HR department asked me to come in for another meeting to hammer out "more/the last details". So I guss that means I got the job but no one told me? It's a job filled with red flags, but hey I guess I can go for another round to see how stupid the money gets with them.
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May 2, 2022 21:51
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That means the hiring committee/CEO wants to meet you for a sanity check before officially giving you the offer. It’s bad form to give a date time and semi-ghost you on it though, it sounds unorganized.
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May 3, 2022 04:15
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loving FINALLY got my specific details, so it’s time to negotiate. The salary looks okay, about 15.5% more than what I make now, though some of the salary data online implies it could be as much of a 25% raise if I try to bargain (also added commuting costs may mostly negate that projected raise). Also got a fairly generous sign on bonus offer, though it is also a tad bit lower than what levels.fyi implies as standard for the role. The stock award… I don’t totally understand, tbh, but it seems like a decent chunk of stock for whatever that is worth. What’s the best play from here? I had another objectively shittier offer I turned down last week, but my current job would almost certainly try to counter if I want leverage to try to negotiate with. Gin_Rummy fucked around with this message at 20:56 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 3, 2022 20:45
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you don't need leverage, you just need to state what you want so say "thanks for the offer, I'm excited to deliver some high quality bearfucking at BearFuckers, Inc. I would be willing to sign an offer for $X base salary, $Y singing bonus immediately."
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May 3, 2022 20:55
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What's unclear about the stock award?
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May 3, 2022 21:04
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skipdogg posted:What's unclear about the stock award? They just gave a value and didn’t really specify over how many years it vests and whatnot. I’m just not sure how that value breaks down in my yearly total comp. Gin_Rummy fucked around with this message at 21:16 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 3, 2022 21:11
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Gin_Rummy posted:loving FINALLY got my specific details, so it’s time to negotiate. Congrats, though. It sounds like you can find a win in this one.
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May 3, 2022 21:23
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Dik Hz posted:And by looking for collaborative wins and signaling your BATNA. Care to elaborate on this? I've been glossing over the fact that I like my current job and could stay forever because I thought that might make me an unappealing candidate. Of course, if they know that and still want me that improves my position.
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May 3, 2022 21:51
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Gin_Rummy posted:The stock award… I don’t totally understand, tbh, but it seems like a decent chunk of stock for whatever that is worth. Stock options or RSU's? There was a nice discussion on options and startups a few pages ago, but I've yet to hear the thread's advice on RSU's
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May 3, 2022 22:12
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I’ve got two opportunities: One is at a major corporation - base is 25k more than what I make now, but I had to talk to them up to that and Id be giving up my OT for a bonus. I’ve got a few red flags because they seem to be flip flopping on whether it will be remote or not. I don’t think I have any more wiggle room for salary here. The other is a healthcare company: I got an offer yesterday for 35k more than my base now (but equal to base + OT) the biweekly insurance premiums are over $600 and OOP max s double what I have now. I countered today - adding the costs of benefits to my salary and they didn’t seem opposed but they had to get it approved. Neither seemed to care about bankruptcy.
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May 3, 2022 23:05
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Well, remember your prior experience with companies that didn't care about the bankruptcy--until it reached the offer stage, it turned up on the background check and HR/Legal immediately torpedoed it. You probably don't need anyone here to tell you that "flip flopping on whether it will be remote or not" means it will be 100% on site rear end in seat. By "equal to base + OT" do you mean it's the same money but fewer hours? Or that you're hourly now but would be moving to salaried, thus would be making the same money for more hours? Also did you just start your current role like within the last year, or are you still in the same role you've been in for a long time where they're kind of underpaying and overworking you because they know you're stuck chained to them on account of the bankruptcy? Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 23:12 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 3, 2022 23:10
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Eric the Mauve posted:You probably don't need anyone here to tell you that "flip flopping on whether it will be remote or not" means it will be 100% on site rear end in seat. My first question for all recruiters nowadays is "Is this position fully remote?" In some cases I already knew it wasn't because of the company's famously rigid stance against full remote work, but I asked anyway so I could put in a dissenting vote for their crappy policy. I never used to be so direct during these conversations because I was desperate for things to work out. But it's been kinda liberating to be up front about what I need and not waste my time wondering if I'm going to get what I want.
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May 3, 2022 23:36
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Even when I'm turning down third party recruiters out of the gate right now I say "if I was to be expected to commute at all that'd be a 25% increase in my expected salary", just so they can go and tell their clients that (lol).
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May 4, 2022 00:33
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TheParadigm posted:Stock options or RSU's? There was a nice discussion on options and startups a few pages ago, but I've yet to hear the thread's advice on RSU's RSUs at publicly traded companies can be valued at par, less a modest volatility premium for being tied to employer stock. RSUs at startups or non-public companies should be valued as lottery tickets, too.
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May 4, 2022 00:53
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oopsie rock posted:My first question for all recruiters nowadays is "Is this position fully remote?" In some cases I already knew it wasn't because of the company's famously rigid stance against full remote work, but I asked anyway so I could put in a dissenting vote for their crappy policy. That is my first question too - she said yes. The hiring Manager said "maybe" That persons manager said "yes" Eric - The difference here is it is a different role. Anyway - I make $37/hr and have made 110-120k the past 4 years with OT Both jobs will have me at a base around 110 unless my counter gets accepted.
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May 4, 2022 00:58
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I give (public) RSUs a slight discount since they usually take a while to vest, and you’ll likely leave a good chunk of change unvested if you change jobs, so count ‘em as maybe like 2/3-3/4 their value compared to base or something.
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May 4, 2022 00:59
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Pillowpants posted:That is my first question too - she said yes. Well if you do end up taking Option A you should get it in writing (written into the offer letter) that the job is fully remote. Otherwise you have to assume they are not being honest about it.
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May 4, 2022 01:47
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Magnetic North posted:Care to elaborate on this? I've been glossing over the fact that I like my current job and could stay forever because I thought that might make me an unappealing candidate. Of course, if they know that and still want me that improves my position. It's the classic halo effect.
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May 4, 2022 01:49
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Just to chip in, I too make sure to give companies whose offers I decline something to think about. Usually with low paying jobs that are in a different industry, I let them know what a realistic salary would be like for a professional in my field (They really think they can get away with paying whatever their default rate for "standard" employees is). Companies that have a bad home office stance I clearly let know that it puts them at a severe disadvantage. My hope with this is that the hiring managers will report it up the chain that they are losing potential candidates to unrealistic pay and poo poo or missing home office options. I just can't understand why a <hospital/workshop/whatever else> would think it can hire an IT professional at the rate they pay random clerks. That's just not what an IT professional makes anywhere. But I guess they have enough suckers and it explains the lack of skill in those companies.
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May 4, 2022 08:58
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SEKCobra posted:Just to chip in, I too make sure to give companies whose offers I decline something to think about. Usually with low paying jobs that are in a different industry, I let them know what a realistic salary would be like for a professional in my field (They really think they can get away with paying whatever their default rate for "standard" employees is). Companies that have a bad home office stance I clearly let know that it puts them at a severe disadvantage. Yeah, it's good to do this (professionally*). I've seen feedback like that change hiring practices quickly at good places, and at bad places the change happens too just takes way longer. Though you should note that a lot of times they CAN fill these jobs at the lower rates, it's just with people with far lower skills. *the fake reddit creative stories where the guy throws a temper tantrum in an interview because he didn't know the pay should be kept in the fiction section
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May 4, 2022 13:34
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