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Larry Parrish posted:they don't really count as video games imo. or at least most of them don't. wrong
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May 5, 2022 00:25
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| # ? May 23, 2024 07:54 |
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Visual novels are absolutely video games
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May 5, 2022 00:30
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What about ones with no choices at all? What is the definition of a video game?
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May 5, 2022 00:34
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marumaru posted:read houseki no kuni wow!
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May 5, 2022 00:40
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marumaru posted:read houseki no kuni I've been doing so, started last year and I'm on volume 9 now. It's a real gut-punch of a manga and I'm loving it! Kinda glad nobody told me about the hiatus before I kicked this off or I would have waited forever, HxH has trained me to expect the worst there.
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May 5, 2022 00:42
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Clarste posted:What about ones with no choices at all? What is the definition of a video game? almost all visual novels use the format (art, the mechanics of how text appears on the screen, ways in which the player experiences the story) in a way that you'd be completely unable to classify as any other medium than 'video game'. games can be lots of things. encyclopedia brown books were games. games studies stuff is really interesting
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May 5, 2022 00:52
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they're multimedia software but most of them have no gameplay so. they're not games. they're visual novels.
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May 5, 2022 00:52
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In Japan, visual novel is primarily a brand name used by one publisher and the genre as a whole is typically called novel games So they're games.
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May 5, 2022 00:53
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Larry Parrish posted:they're multimedia software but most of them have no gameplay so. they're not games. they're visual novels. 'gameplay' isn't really a term that means anything, is the thing. nobody can agree on what it means, which sort of makes it useless in discussions. mostly because 'play' is a much more well defined term historically, and encompasses way more than I think you'd define "gameplay" as lol
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May 5, 2022 00:56
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That's interesting that Visual novel in the US is like bandaid where people use the name brand instead of the descriptive generic.
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May 5, 2022 00:58
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Yeah, I think visual novel was used by Chunsoft. And then you have Sound Novels, which are most famously used to refer to the When They Cry series. There's really just a huge venn diagram between novel games (VNs), ren'ai sims (dating sims), and ADV games (narrative adventure games).
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May 5, 2022 01:13
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From like a game dev side, the sections of the game which have dialog and character portraits are usually labeled as ADV in the code. Or like controls will distinguish between ADV controls and exploration controls or whatever.
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May 5, 2022 01:15
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Varinn posted:'gameplay' isn't really a term that means anything, is the thing. nobody can agree on what it means, which sort of makes it useless in discussions. mostly because 'play' is a much more well defined term historically, and encompasses way more than I think you'd define "gameplay" as lol "Gameplay" is often used as a stand-in for "mechanics", i.e. "rules"
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May 5, 2022 01:16
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"Click to advance to the next line" is a rule, I suppose.
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May 5, 2022 01:19
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Clarste posted:From like a game dev side, the sections of the game which have dialog and character portraits are usually labeled as ADV in the code. Or like controls will distinguish between ADV controls and exploration controls or whatever. You can see this in the remake of 999 for the Nonary Games collection, where the original narration in paragraph form is Novel mode and the new mode which is just dialogue portraits all the time is ADV mode.
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May 5, 2022 01:20
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They're games because we understand them as games, they're sold as games, they utilize the same audio-visual mediums as games, we interact with them at our own pace like games. On that note, I've been going through Robotics;Notes lately and the way the chapters work in that one is loving bonkers (though I'm sure someone's done it before, I don't actually play that many VNs).
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May 5, 2022 01:23
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Arist posted:They're games because we understand them as games, they're sold as games, they utilize the same audio-visual mediums as games, we interact with them at our own pace like games. No objection to the rest, but certainly we can interact with books at our own pace? Also, marketing aside, could a book-reading app on your computer be considered a game? Edit: Let's say it plays ambient music unrelated to the book you're reading.
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May 5, 2022 01:25
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I recently finished R;N and really didn't understand what they were going for with that structure, yeah. Would have lost nothing if it had just been a progression of character-focused chapters that you go through linearly.
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May 5, 2022 01:26
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Clarste posted:No objection to the rest, but certainly we can interact with books at our own pace? Sure, but I might also argue that the precise mechanism through which dialogue is delivered in a VN is a combination of a book and a film or, yes, a game, because it's more like something you passively absorb most of the time and it's more cumbersome to go back and reread sections even if there's a log.
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May 5, 2022 01:27
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gaming on my kobo right now
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May 5, 2022 01:31
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and again, there are books that are games! the encyclopedia brown books I had as a kid were all like a bunch of a mysteries, with the answers in the back. thats games a lot of modern arguments about what gameplay and stuff is are people defining the terms strictly off modern video games, which doesn't really make sense in the larger context of what games are
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May 5, 2022 01:32
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A Funko Pop is a game because they're sold at Gamestop.
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May 5, 2022 01:33
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Waffleman_ posted:A Funko Pop is a game because they're sold at Gamestop. This is the only truth
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May 5, 2022 01:33
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secretly best girl posted:I've been doing so, started last year and I'm on volume 9 now. It's a real gut-punch of a manga and I'm loving it! Kinda glad nobody told me about the hiatus before I kicked this off or I would have waited forever, HxH has trained me to expect the worst there. only 9998 to go! 
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May 5, 2022 01:36
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Contextually VNs can be referred to as games uncontroversially in ordinary situations. Only when a distinction needs to be drawn is there a question, at which point the character of such a necessity should be taken into account to arrive at an answer. On the other hand, it would be very odd to refer to a book, even an ebook, as a game pretty much anytime outside of a CYOA or something (exceptional case). It's a matter of culture and context
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May 5, 2022 01:39
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mycophobia posted:Contextually VNs can be referred to as games uncontroversially in ordinary situations. Only when a distinction needs to be drawn is there a question, at which point the character of such a necessity should be taken into account to arrive at an answer. On the other hand, it would be very odd to refer to a book, even an ebook, as a game pretty much anytime outside of a CYOA or something (exceptional case). It's a matter of culture and context What about these things?
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May 5, 2022 01:42
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AnoHito posted:What about these things? I think that falls into the CYOA, etc exception I mentioned
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May 5, 2022 01:45
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mycophobia posted:Contextually VNs can be referred to as games uncontroversially in ordinary situations. Only when a distinction needs to be drawn is there a question, at which point the character of such a necessity should be taken into account to arrive at an answer. On the other hand, it would be very odd to refer to a book, even an ebook, as a game pretty much anytime outside of a CYOA or something (exceptional case). It's a matter of culture and context sounds like theyre games op
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May 5, 2022 01:48
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Varinn posted:sounds like theyre games op That's basically what I said! Only when there needs to be a circumscribed limit to the concept "game" would a VN even possibly fall out of one if it were drawn. In ordinary conversation our culture dictates that one can refer to a VN as a game and no one will likely bat an eye unless they want to start a philosophical discussion like this
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May 5, 2022 01:56
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Nate RFB posted:I recently finished R;N and really didn't understand what they were going for with that structure, yeah. Would have lost nothing if it had just been a progression of character-focused chapters that you go through linearly. while i liked steins;gate well enough i can't say I'm interested in the slightest in their other games. robotics;notes has an ok anime though.
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May 5, 2022 01:56
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mycophobia posted:That's basically what I said! Only when there needs to be a circumscribed limit to the concept "game" would a VN even possibly fall out of one if it were drawn. In ordinary conversation our culture dictates that one can refer to a VN as a game and no one will likely bat an eye unless they want to start a philosophical discussion like this i object as they're the crystalization of fake gamer bait much like those auto battle games and other forms of games where you basically just click next or watch it play itself. at least something like disco Elysium has rpg mechanics to give it something more than endless conversations. which is fine I just don't consider them to be video games and rather just some kind of extra fancy comic book.
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May 5, 2022 01:57
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oh no fake gamers
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May 5, 2022 02:05
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Larry Parrish posted:i object as they're the crystalization of fake gamer bait much like those auto battle games and other forms of games where you basically just click next or watch it play itself. at least something like disco Elysium has rpg mechanics to give it something more than endless conversations. which is fine I just don't consider them to be video games and rather just some kind of extra fancy comic book. You can consider whatever you want, it doesn't change what I said!
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May 5, 2022 02:10
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I'm a fake gamer
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May 5, 2022 02:11
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Larry Parrish posted:i object as they're the crystalization of fake gamer bait much like those auto battle games and other forms of games where you basically just click next or watch it play itself. at least something like disco Elysium has rpg mechanics to give it something more than endless conversations. which is fine I just don't consider them to be video games and rather just some kind of extra fancy comic book. lol
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May 5, 2022 02:11
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Arist posted:I'm a fake gamer by which I mean, I only play FFXIV
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May 5, 2022 02:12
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dogsicle posted:oh no fake gamers They’re to be feared.
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May 5, 2022 02:14
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The only fake gamers I'm concerned with is those idiots that made Darkest Dungeon too hard by complaining the game was too easy when they didn't even play the loving game.
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May 5, 2022 02:17
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the incredibly real and important cred of which games are real. the stolen valor of being a fake game.
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May 5, 2022 02:20
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| # ? May 23, 2024 07:54 |
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But seriously, all play is valid, from the soccer moms and their crush crush to grognards who simulate WWII with little plastic models of tanks and infantry. You play a game, you're a gamer.
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May 5, 2022 02:26
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