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Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
reveal yourself Jeet

https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1522213372325883904?s=20&t=6kcqcQ0qhA1jc-B42vTvvg

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Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Barry Foster posted:

They're CNS stimulants that work primarily on the dopamine and noradrenaline systems.

Used sparingly and/or at therapeutic levels they increase alertness, motivation, concentration, and generally allow you to push harder physically and mentally and resist fatigue.

It's not that "something else" is required to create bad effects, it's more that tolerance develops rapidly and falls off very slowly, and the euphoric effects largely cease after repeated doses unless you increase the dose. If you're constantly chasing the "high" feeling then you're going to keep increasing your dose, and amphetamine (and especially methamphetamine, its close cousin) are notorious for causing psychosis when abused, either chronically or acutely.

This is a bit simplified, but hopefully gets the gist across

Thanks. 60-80mg a day is a therapeutic dose, I hope?

I was just thinking about it because the “alertness, motivation, concentration, and generally allow you to push harder physically and mentally and resist fatigue.” is probably why everyone in STA, EW, SF etc is on them, and I would be lying if I said I didn’t really appreciate being able to go higher, further, faster, but I would also be concerned if the government knowingly put me on a dangerous dose, especially considering the rampant mental health issues in those communities, during and after service.

They’re also in the CFHS treatment protocol for Traumatic Brain Injuries, is that just to offset the drowsiness and TBI cognitive effects, or is there a risk there too? Because the thought that they might inadvertently combine CTE, psychosis and PTSD is also worrying, and would also explain some of the issues going on in and around the military - with TBIs being one of the most common injuries in GWOT.

FFT posted:

also they're great for making sleep more difficult

They prescribe Amitriptyline at the same time for that reason. It’s also used for headaches that come with TBI and PTSD stress headaches, but I was under the impression it was pretty mild.

We already had a lot of issues with Mefloquine (and the billionaires behind that drug were mysteriously murdered), but you know I figured it’s Canada and these doses must be tiny compared to what the Yanks get up to.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 15:02 on May 5, 2022

is pepsi ok
Oct 23, 2002

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

Jon Ronson's "So You've Been Publicly Shamed" which came out in 2015 comes to basically the same conclusion. the only options when faced with something like this is: 1. ignore as much as possible and if forced to just deny it OR 2. just say "yeah it's me, who cares? what's it to you, why are you so interested huh??"

as soon as you accept the shaming or apologize, that's when people really smell blood in the water.

I remember thinking Rex Ryan was so dumb for denying it when his foot fetish videos were found. It was just his wife in the videos and it was obviously his voice. Just say "I like feet, what of it? Next question. "

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007

is pepsi ok posted:

I remember thinking Rex Ryan was so dumb for denying it when his foot fetish videos were found. It was just his wife in the videos and it was obviously his voice. Just say "I like feet, what of it? Next question. "

Yeah what are they gonna do, make memes of you? they're gonna do that as soon as the accusation exists at all. Might as well get ahead of the thing.

e: the example in the book he gives is some guy (I do not remember who, but definitely a public figure) who got caught in a tabloid scandal where he had a BDSM kink - he liked being dommed by women who were dressed like Nazi officers. It might not have been explicitly nazis like iconography wise, but the uniforms and stuff were definitely supposed to evoke that sort of imagery. And the guy's response was basically "not only is this none of your business, exactly why do you think it's okay to spy on me in my bedroom?" and yeah, he got through it unscathed because that's how he chose to handle it.

Pepe Silvia Browne has issued a correction as of 15:19 on May 5, 2022

cagliostr0
Jun 8, 2020

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

Yeah what are they gonna do, make memes of you? they're gonna do that as soon as the accusation exists at all. Might as well get ahead of the thing.

e: the example in the book he gives is some guy (I do not remember who, but definitely a public figure) who got caught in a tabloid scandal where he had a BDSM kink - he liked being dommed by women who were dressed like Nazi officers. It might not have been explicitly nazis like iconography wise, but the uniforms and stuff were definitely supposed to evoke that sort of imagery. And the guy's response was basically "not only is this none of your business, exactly why do you think it's okay to spy on me in my bedroom?" and yeah, he got through it unscathed because that's how he chose to handle it.

Former boss of formula One and son of famous British Nazi Oswald Moseley, Max Moseley.

Riot Bimbo
Dec 28, 2006


That stuff jacks dopamine so when you use what were probably recreational doses you can use the euphoric state for operant(?) conditioning i am sure. Like youre euphoric and so you can be trained to associate certain head spaces and actions with the euphoria. Combine that with ego dissolving religious experience inducing drugs and you have a cocktail that can change a person

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007

cagliostr0 posted:

Former boss of formula One and son of famous British Nazi Oswald Moseley, Max Moseley.

Yes! And to be clear - absolutely not defending that guy, just pointing out that he successfully dodged the scandal by responding to it with "yeah I love being dommed by the ladies of the SS, so what?"

UwUnabomber
Sep 9, 2012

Pubes dreaded out so hoes call me Chris Barnes. I don't wear a condom at the pig farm.

Frosted Flake posted:

They prescribe Amitriptyline at the same time for that reason. It’s also used for headaches that come with TBI and PTSD stress headaches, but I was under the impression it was pretty mild.

I've taken both meth and amitriptyline and the amitriptyline might win that fight. It'd be snooze time.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Frosted Flake posted:

Thanks. 60-80mg a day is a therapeutic dose, I hope?

I'm pretty sure that 60mg a day is the tippy-top of "therapeutic" - google certainly says so - but you'd be better off asking an ADHD sufferer about it, I think. They give meth to severe narcoleptics, after all - different doses for different folkses.

Frosted Flake posted:

They’re also in the CFHS treatment protocol for Traumatic Brain Injuries, is that just to offset the drowsiness and TBI cognitive effects, or is there a risk there too?

Do you know, I never knew about that, that's pretty interesting! Needless to say I really couldn't tell you anything about the risks of using stimulants for that purpose.

Riot Bimbo
Dec 28, 2006


Amitryptiline would also win over meth in a contest for the worst psychotic episode

Worst day of my life bar none so far involved a parent in a black-out psychotic state and that poo poo made it happen

DirtyRobot
Dec 15, 2003

it was a normally happy sunny day... but Dirty Robot was dirty

Frosted Flake posted:

I have a question about amphetamines. They’re mentioned ITT in connection to Manson, Jonestown and a lot of these 60’s and 70’s CIA experiments. What’s the mechanism of action?

I ask because when I moved to STA I was hooked up with Dexedrine Go Pills, as were what seemed like all of the guys in the EW Squadron, CSOR, CANSOFCOM etc. They just make you a hard charger right? It takes something else to have some sort of nefarious effect?
a lot of MKUltra drug stuff that we know about is a whole drug cocktail in combination with some form of hosed up torture

You're not being controlled with average does of Dexedrine or Vyvanse or whatever. You're being controlled when you go back 'n forth between that, LSD, who knows what kind of confinement, deprivation or psychological torture, and maybe some hypnosis stuff because sure why not.

Aberration in the Heartland of the Real posted:

While at Lackland, [Dr. Jolly] West conducted his seminal study of American Korean War POW confessions, which led to his unified theory of behavior control, termed “Debility, Dependency, and Dread” (DDD), “the definitive study on Communist psychological tactics.”152 West argued that the POWs were not the victims of mysterious communist voodoo, but had been psychologically broken through the systematic use of fear, hunger, sleep deprivation, humiliation and spontaneous and random relief from these conditions. The resulting futility, disorientation, loss of sense of space and time, hallucinations, and psychological regression produced a weakening and collapse of the prisoners’ will, dissociative and automaton-like states and, eventually, utter dependence upon and total compliance with captors. At a certain point, prisoners, no longer able to grin and bear it, switched to a mindless “autopilot” state that eventually degraded into something resembling a Zombie. Essentially, West asserted that a controller could form, break and remake an individual’s sense of coherent identity by subjecting them to DDD. West’s theory of DDD became instrumental to all early and subsequent government mind-control endeavors. It was used to inoculate soldiers to enemy interrogation and brainwashing and, conversely, to retrieve information stored in the deepest recesses of the mind and induce desired behaviors in others, even when such actions were against their conscious will.

A January 14, 1953 CIA memorandum entitled “Interrogation Techniques” explicated the valuable potential that West’s work could have to ongoing efforts:

quote:

If the services of Major Louis J. West, USAF (MC), a trained hypnotist, can be obtained, and another man well grounded in conventional psychological interrogation and polygraph techniques, and the services of Lt. Col [deleted], a well-balanced interrogation research centre [sic.] could be established in an especially selected location.153

Chaos posted:

Late in the fall of 1966, Jolly West arrived in San Francisco to study hippies and LSD.

Chaos posted:

In the Haight, West found a group of kindred spirits at David Smith’s new clinic, where plenty of shrinks from the “straight world” were basking in hippiedom.

Chaos posted:

Smith told me he’d started his research having foreseen an influx of amphetamine abusers in San Francisco. He didn’t say how he’d predicted that influx, but he was right. In the summer of ’67, as he opened his clinic, amphetamines exploded in popularity in the Haight.

“When the speed scene hit, it was a total shock to everybody,” he told me. “Suddenly, what I’d learned in pharmacology relative to amphetamines was applicable [to people].”

Throughout Love Needs Care, Smith draws parallels between the rodents he’d studied and the speed-addled hippies in the Haight. The mice on speed, he wrote, “become inordinately aggressive and assaultive… [turning] upon one another with unexpected savagery. Their violent behavior is probably intensified by confinement for it is strikingly similar to that observed in amphetamine abusers who consume the drugs in crowded atmospheres.

In the Haight, Smith watched as people living cheek by jowl took huge doses of speed, inspiring paranoia and hallucinations. Once peaceful and well-adjusted, the “speed freaks” of San Francisco now “lashed out with murderous rage at any real or imagined intrusion,” assaulting, raping, or torturing to relieve the paranoid tension. “Cut off from the straight world, crammed together in inhuman conditions, and controlled by chemicals,” Smith concluded, “they behaved, quite naturally, like rats in a cage.”

But when I spoke to Smith, he was quick to discount these parallels. “I happened to study amphetamines before they hit the Haight,” he said. “The Haight didn’t give me the idea. It’s kind of like a historical accident… I was studying LSD before LSD hit the Haight [too].”

In fact, according to Dr. Eugene Schoenfeld, who participated in a portion of Smith’s rat research in 1965, LSD was an integral component of the project. Smith and his colleagues would inject the rats with acid in hopes of making them more suggestible before he gave them amphetamines. Suggestibility was among the most prized effects of LSD from a clinical perspective. And yet Smith kept LSD out of the official documentation of his research. The article he published in the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs never mentioned acid.”

Chaos posted:

As in his initial experiments, West [in 1956] performed most of these psychiatric feats on mental health patients. “The necessity to obtain most of the“subject material from a population of psychiatry patients made standardized observations very difficult,” he groused. In the report, which doubled as a request for continued funding—a successful request; West received government backing through 1965 at the least—he enthusiastically described a high-tech laboratory he planned to construct at Oklahoma. It would include “a special chamber [where] various hypnotic, pharmacologic, and sensory-environmental variables will be manipulated.

West had hypnotized mental patients and “normal subjects” and exposed them to a host of drugs, including chlorpromazine, reserpine, amphetamines, and LSD—the same ones that David Smith would inject in his confined rodents about a decade later.

Of course Jolly West also claimed to have been able to take real memories and replace them with fake ones so who knows Frosted Flake you're probably a manchurian candidate.

Wraith of J.O.I.
Jan 25, 2012


it just keeps coming, i wonder if they have something lined up every day til the primary on 5/17

https://twitter.com/sollenbergerrc/status/1522234966838554632

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT
I take Adderall and have to have at least 1-2 off days a week.

Stimulants are not good for your heart, full stop.

Woke Mind Virus
Aug 22, 2005

Wraith of J.O.I. posted:

it just keeps coming, i wonder if they have something lined up every day til the primary on 5/17

https://twitter.com/sollenbergerrc/status/1522234966838554632

this is awesome. The Dems should pick up this seat easily now. Hold on I am getting a call.

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007

Wraith of J.O.I. posted:

it just keeps coming, i wonder if they have something lined up every day til the primary on 5/17

https://twitter.com/sollenbergerrc/status/1522234966838554632

lmfao oh noooo not $40k he must be the most corrupt man in washington!!!!

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

Wraith of J.O.I. posted:

it just keeps coming, i wonder if they have something lined up every day til the primary on 5/17

https://twitter.com/sollenbergerrc/status/1522234966838554632

My take he's an illiterate narcissist who's gotten away with lots of petty crimes found himself perfectly positioned to benefit from a coup, but was too stupid to not write his Barney style notes all over and he's accidentally made a bunch of real insider trading very provable.

one list of names and your existing evidence, the gov is gonna be busier.

The celebrities are all getting DIVORCED after Trump lost, Melinda gates I think said it was Epstein. It's just weird coincidence, celebrities divorce all the time.

Wraith of J.O.I.
Jan 25, 2012


Wasabi the J posted:

My take he's an illiterate narcissist who's gotten away with lots of petty crimes found himself perfectly positioned to benefit from a coup, but was too stupid to not write his Barney style notes all over and he's accidentally made a bunch of real insider trading very provable.

i think this is prob true for a large # of congressional reps, but he’s the only one seemingly facing any consequences, and all after his comments on the cocaine and orgies

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Wasabi the J posted:

I take Adderall and have to have at least 1-2 off days a week.

Stimulants are not good for your heart, full stop.

So what I’m hearing is that between the psychosis inducing malaria medicine, the high end of therapeutic amphetamine dose,and the antidepressant used to offset the amphetamine and to treat PTSD apparently itself causing psychosis, maybe Manchurian Candidates are an unintended side effect of the military just throwing pills at problems?

Because if you look at the root issue being addressed with these besides the antimalarial, the bottom line is that just doing the job is extremely detrimental to your physical and mental health, and nobody can do it very long without being propped up.

But then, Manson and his guys, and Jim Jones, they weren’t chronically burnt out with low grade psychological injuries, right? So put them on the same drug regimen and maybe they go off the rails because they have so much more in the tank to start with?

This doesn’t really explain whatever’s going on at Fort Bragg, but it might explain picking up deadbeats and losers and giving them the same drugs as Green Berets?

Crime on a Dime
Nov 28, 2006

Frosted Flake posted:

Thanks. 60-80mg a day is a therapeutic dose, I hope?

I was just thinking about it because the “alertness, motivation, concentration, and generally allow you to push harder physically and mentally and resist fatigue.” is probably why everyone in STA, EW, SF etc is on them, and I would be lying if I said I didn’t really appreciate being able to go higher, further, faster, but I would also be concerned if the government knowingly put me on a dangerous dose, especially considering the rampant mental health issues in those communities, during and after service.

They’re also in the CFHS treatment protocol for Traumatic Brain Injuries, is that just to offset the drowsiness and TBI cognitive effects, or is there a risk there too? Because the thought that they might inadvertently combine CTE, psychosis and PTSD is also worrying, and would also explain some of the issues going on in and around the military - with TBIs being one of the most common injuries in GWOT.

They prescribe Amitriptyline at the same time for that reason. It’s also used for headaches that come with TBI and PTSD stress headaches, but I was under the impression it was pretty mild.

We already had a lot of issues with Mefloquine (and the billionaires behind that drug were mysteriously murdered), but you know I figured it’s Canada and these doses must be tiny compared to what the Yanks get up to.

jfc

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"

Wasabi the J posted:

My take he's an illiterate narcissist who's gotten away with lots of petty crimes found himself perfectly positioned to benefit from a coup, but was too stupid to not write his Barney style notes all over and he's accidentally made a bunch of real insider trading very provable.

one list of names and your existing evidence, the gov is gonna be busier.

The celebrities are all getting DIVORCED after Trump lost, Melinda gates I think said it was Epstein. It's just weird coincidence, celebrities divorce all the time.

Remember the Congressional insider trading, confirmed, before lockdowns hit and how nothing ever happened to those people? Lol

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Barry Foster posted:


Do you know, I never knew about that, that's pretty interesting! Needless to say I really couldn't tell you anything about the risks of using stimulants for that purpose.

Speed increases blood pressure, so wouldn't giving it to someone whose brain is bleeding potentially damage the blood vessels in the brain? I guess if it's that kind of brain damage vs the being shot kind it's the better option though

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011

i looked up the guy writing this, willem wallyn, and he's the son of a former politician that went down in the Agusta scandal, one of the largest belgian corruption scandals during the '90s, and the ex-partner of sp-politician freya van den bossche, daughter of also sp-politician luc van den bossche, who himself was involved in some corruption scandals as well.

it doesn't mean anything, but i thought it was funny

A Bakers Cousin
Dec 18, 2003

by vyelkin

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

Jon Ronson's "So You've Been Publicly Shamed" which came out in 2015 comes to basically the same conclusion. the only options when faced with something like this is: 1. ignore as much as possible and if forced to just deny it OR 2. just say "yeah it's me, who cares? what's it to you, why are you so interested huh??"

as soon as you accept the shaming or apologize, that's when people really smell blood in the water.

Deny until you die or embrace it and own. Only 2 ways.

A Bakers Cousin has issued a correction as of 18:40 on May 5, 2022

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Hatebag posted:

Speed increases blood pressure, so wouldn't giving it to someone whose brain is bleeding potentially damage the blood vessels in the brain? I guess if it's that kind of brain damage vs the being shot kind it's the better option though

It could be that it’s so that they stop showing signs of concussion sooner and can be returned to duty, that would be my guess. It’s got to be much easier to pass those processing speed tests and whatever other cognitive tests on Go Pills.

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

Frosted Flake posted:

So what I’m hearing is that between the psychosis inducing malaria medicine, the high end of therapeutic amphetamine dose,and the antidepressant used to offset the amphetamine and to treat PTSD apparently itself causing psychosis, maybe Manchurian Candidates are an unintended side effect of the military just throwing pills at problems?

Because if you look at the root issue being addressed with these besides the antimalarial, the bottom line is that just doing the job is extremely detrimental to your physical and mental health, and nobody can do it very long without being propped up.

But then, Manson and his guys, and Jim Jones, they weren’t chronically burnt out with low grade psychological injuries, right? So put them on the same drug regimen and maybe they go off the rails because they have so much more in the tank to start with?

This doesn’t really explain whatever’s going on at Fort Bragg, but it might explain picking up deadbeats and losers and giving them the same drugs as Green Berets?

trauma is trauma and not healing it takes it's toll. The military recruits a hefty amount of idealistic people with untreated mental trauma, as did and do Manson, Jim Jones, and MLMs.

I'm not suggesting more than that, those kinds of people have been manipulated and exploited throughout history by charlatans and strongmen.

The military just has more physically strong men, who have seen and inflicted nastier trauma, psychologically and physically.

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Frosted Flake posted:

It could be that it’s so that they stop showing signs of concussion sooner and can be returned to duty, that would be my guess. It’s got to be much easier to pass those processing speed tests and whatever other cognitive tests on Go Pills.

Yeah, troops are disposable commodities that you pour money in one side and get murder out the other. Makes sense they fill em fulla pills, it'd make their benefits cheaper to pay out when they die early plus they get more done in a day. The logic is unassailable

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



Wraith of J.O.I. posted:

NSFW

man they're doing him so dirty he must have been telling the truth lmao

https://twitter.com/dylanatxs/status/1521982758813376512


what was this?

lobotomy molo
May 7, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
^^the video of cawthorn fake-humping his buddy’s face and laughing together about his rear end being next to the dudes head

Hatebag posted:

Yeah, troops are disposable commodities that you pour money in one side and get murder out the other. Makes sense they fill em fulla pills, it'd make their benefits cheaper to pay out when they die early plus they get more done in a day. The logic is unassailable

yeah if you want to cut costs by having one set of pilots stay awake for 24 hours and don’t give a poo poo how maimed they are when they’re done in the military, it’s an optimal strategy.

it just occasionally results in sleep-deprived pilots bombing your own dudes

A Bakers Cousin
Dec 18, 2003

by vyelkin
It was pretty easy to get a doctor to give me unlimited Adderall in the army.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



Perry Mason Jar posted:

Remember the Congressional insider trading, confirmed, before lockdowns hit and how nothing ever happened to those people? Lol

kelly loefler and David purdue lost re-election which is basically the worst punishment that is allowed to happen to politicians

then like a year later pelosi did the democrat thing of saying she'd support a stock trading ban for congress and then never did so

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

Hatebag posted:

Yeah, troops are disposable commodities that you pour money in one side and get murder out the other. Makes sense they fill em fulla pills, it'd make their benefits cheaper to pay out when they die early plus they get more done in a day. The logic is unassailable

It's self perpetuating, too. You don't want to be on the outs so you have to "push through" more psychological and physical stress when you're not fully healed to get back with the in group.

Which then some young dude sees and emulates...

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Wasabi the J posted:

It's self perpetuating, too. You don't want to be on the outs so you have to "push through" more psychological and physical stress when you're not fully healed to get back with the in group.

Which then some young dude sees and emulates...

:hmmyes:

Spergin Morlock
Aug 8, 2009

Fly Molo posted:

^^the video of cawthorn fake-humping his buddy’s face and laughing together about his rear end being next to the dudes head

just to be clear, when you say fake humping you mean he's completely naked and slamming his balls into his cousins face lol

lobotomy molo
May 7, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Spergin Morlock posted:

just to be clear, when you say fake humping you mean he's completely naked and slamming his balls into his cousins face lol

exactly, horseplay that falls somewhere between a rowdy varsity team and a chill group of marines

Loucks
May 21, 2007

It's incwedibwe easy to suck my own dick.

Yeah that's around the upper level of the poo poo people did when I was a swimmer and hazing was still A-OK.

Woke Mind Virus
Aug 22, 2005

Shear Modulus posted:

what was this?

cawthorn's rear end flopping around

Driftingmouse
May 26, 2021

by Fritz the Horse
https://www.breaking911.com/bill-gates-met-with-jeffrey-epstein-a-number-of-times-admits-it-was-huge-mistake/

https://twitter.com/RSTYCG/status/1521919683028529152?cxt=HHwWgMC5uez4-J4qAAAA

lobotomy molo
May 7, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Loucks posted:

Yeah that's around the upper level of the poo poo people did when I was a swimmer and hazing was still A-OK.

swim team hazing gets weird

Futanari Damacy
Oct 30, 2021

by sebmojo
Dudes Rock

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Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010




i imagine bill gates, bill clinton, donald trump, dersh, etc are all staunchly pro choice

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