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always enjoy the incomprehensible huge swings in individual council wards https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1522354997173829633?cxt=HHwWgoCyybvzvqAqAAAA
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May 6, 2022 00:26
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er... I thought it was well known that we shouldn't bother voting if we were in a safe seat?
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May 6, 2022 00:30
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last year labour lost a northumberland seat to this guy https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1390465305038761987 https://twitter.com/marwoldeb/status/1390476093816283136
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May 6, 2022 00:34
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Tories and Labour eating poo poo? I'm ok with that tbh.
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May 6, 2022 00:34
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Apraxin posted:last year labour lost a northumberland seat to this guy Big Robert Morrow vibes from this guy edit - what I'm saying is, for anybody not familiar with insane Texans, probably worth skimming his social media for any references to anime edit 2 - but not at work Epic High Five fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 00:35
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Scott Lee wear the jester hat
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May 6, 2022 00:40
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https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/lee-skeet-cardiff-cora-refund-23868072 Restaurant owner gives entire £1,000 bill of 'arrogant, rich' diners to server who they 'treated like crap' Lee Skeet, the owner of Cora in Pontcanna, said it was time to call out 'rich people who think they treat people like crap' quote:Sharing what he sent on Twitter, he wrote: "I wanted to firstly thank you for choosing my restaurant for your meal tonight and I understand you had the biggest bill we've ever had on one table here. Unfortunately, throughout the evening I was made aware that your party's behaviour was inappropriate towards Lily, who runs front of house. ... quote:But he later said he changed his mind and was giving the entire £1,000 bill to his staff member. "I don't really want that money. [My waitress] probably deserves it for putting up with them," he said, and added that he had not had a response from the diner. From his tweet: quote:I just think we should start calling out rich people who think they can treat people like crap
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May 6, 2022 01:10
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That's a timely story, Beau of the Fifth Column just posted this (about America, but I'm sure much of the same happens here): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptdpKBETXDY
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May 6, 2022 01:14
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OwlFancier posted:Marxism is supposed to be an applicable political theory which people can use to understand the world and achieve goals. If it does not deal with the experienced reality of people as political actors, then it can't be of much use to them. And a marxist concerned with actual practical political action should not expect to attract anybody with their ideas. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see or use Marxism that way. Marx made a bunch of observations and predictions about economics which were and are broadly accurate. That's why anyone who equates communism to instant gulags is clearly wrong, but at the same time afaik Marx didn't say anything about how to win an election in the 21st century. It's still extremely useful to a) point out and explain many of the ways the world is hosed up and b) suggest an idealised vision of what a fairer world might look like. You can argue that it has failed (or has been failed) enough times by now to be disregarded, but to me that just sounds like more End of History bullshit - "people don't vote for communists today" is true but if you can't actually explain why or how Marx was/is wrong then it's not a refutation. That's just a lazy method normally used to justify the existing broken system of liberal capitalism.
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May 6, 2022 01:16
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It doesn't tell you how to win an election because elections as they exist are basically performance art in an arena the rules of which are governed by rich media freaks. But I think it is, and should be, a tool you can use personally to understand the reality of the world you live in, if it was only of used to economists then I would have no use for it either.
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May 6, 2022 01:20
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If Labour actually end up losing seats it's going to be properly funny.
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May 6, 2022 01:28
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I mean if you're looking for a blueprint on how to overthrow Capitalism in the 21st you're not going to find it from Marx, who gave shape shape and told the history of Capitalism as it had been growing and predicted quite well where it would go. If you want to know how that theory expanded and grew to inform revolutionary thought then Lenin, Mao, early Stalin, and similar are the ones you should be looking at. If it's just pure methods without any practice being required, there are whole publishing outlets dedicated to that.
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May 6, 2022 01:33
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jabby posted:If Labour actually end up losing seats it's going to be properly funny. Yep, lose seats from 2018 when Jermy Croblyn was LOTO and they had made big gains.
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May 6, 2022 01:36
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OwlFancier posted:It doesn't tell you how to win an election because elections as they exist are basically performance art in an arena the rules of which are governed by rich media freaks. It absolutely is. Das Kapital itself probably not given the effort involved to cover it, but Marxism tells you what the rich want (more money for us) and why (gently caress you), what you should want (from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs) and why (because obviously that's just loving fair, and only more so in an increasingly automated world which was what Marx predicted when he used that particular phrase). The fact that people in the UK today associate "working class" more with a person's accent than their material conditions is separate aspect - understanding that might help explain why people still vote for Tories in 2022 but it doesn't mean Marxism isn't useful. I do agree with you though that Marxism in and of itself isn't and shouldn't be expected to be enough to persuade anybody. Getting that message across is the job, and so far also the main failing, of leftist politicians. And that explains why I won't vote for Starmer's Labour - they won't accept or explain the problems as they plainly exist in front of us, so how we can possibly expect them to provide any solutions? e: Epic High Five posted:If you want to know how that theory expanded and grew to inform revolutionary thought then Lenin, Mao, early Stalin, and similar are the ones you should be looking at. If it's just pure methods without any practice being required, there are whole publishing outlets dedicated to that. Yeah that's where the debate comes in for me, and it's not exactly surprising that people aren't sold on the Great Leap Forward today. Just that I think it's unhelpful to throw out Marxism itself on that basis. Scikar fucked around with this message at 01:52 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 01:44
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Yep, lose seats from 2018 when Jermy Croblyn was LOTO and they had made big gains.  on a related note, nice to see guido applying the same nonpartisan 'if you don't make the same gains as the revered blair then you've failed and should disband as a party and kneel before god-given conservative governance' standard to keith as they did to corbyn https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1522305973536411650?cxt=HHwWhMC-gfXNqKAqAAAA Apraxin fucked around with this message at 01:53 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 01:50
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youre not being sarcastic? theyre actually doing that?
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May 6, 2022 01:54
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That would be why I think people can, do, and should apply the same kind of thinking to their own situation and we should listen to what they come up with, it's still marxism IMO, you are doing it when you think critically and materially about your observable world.
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May 6, 2022 02:02
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OwlFancier posted:That would be why I think people can, do, and should apply the same kind of thinking to their own situation and we should listen to what they come up with, it's still marxism IMO, you are doing it when you think critically and materially about your observable world. Alright, I think we might be more or less talking across one another so I apologise if I came across confrontational. Maybe we have things in a different order though - I would say that if the abolition of capitalism can only be achieved by sacrificing an oppressed subset of people, e.g. trans folk, then it's absolutely not worth it. I won't vote for or support racists or transphobes or homophobes no matter what their economic stance is (I suspect most if not all here would say the same, if asked directly). At the same time I think it's a losing battle to put the economic aspect to one side while fighting for equality - the establishment will quite happily run a rotating carousel of deserving (e.g. Tories actually passing gay marriage) vs undeserving (everybody Priti Patel doesn't like the sound of) as long as it distracts from and prevents any real challenge to the economic factors that require somebody to be "undeserving" in the first place. Scikar fucked around with this message at 02:32 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 02:28
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I agree, but I think that because there can be no true emancipation without economic emancipation, I am not especially worried about people taking a purely non-economic view of things worth fighting for. Because they are still helping, and I think that there is a very strong plurality if not outright majority of people affected by stuff like LGBTQ issues who are also decidedly on the anticapitalist side, the two I find are increasingly married together as time goes on, the wind I think is blowing in that direction. I do, however, have a great deal of issue with people being class reductionist because I think they are a bigger threat, because the purpose of class reductionism is specifically to exclude people you don't like. It is conservatism of a different stripe. I don't think there are any people who dismiss gender, race, sexuality etc as important facets of liberatory politics purely out of ignorance, they do it because they don't think everybody should be liberated. And because it is quite possible to be working class and also bigoted, I find them to be a threat because they can speak with legitimacy about class issues and also use that legitimacy to lend support to their other agenda of marginalizing whoever it is they think should be marginalized. And I think there is probably a big constituency for that, socially conservative anticapitalism. I do not think there is a big constituency for wishy washy inclusiveness absent any real bite, or at least I think that constituency is on the decline, as the vaunted progressive advancements of previous decades are shown to be hollow and limited and the same arguments are having to be had over and over again. I think people are getting sick of "progressive" liberals dragging their feet, while the right obviously hates everything about it. If there is political energy to be harnessed I think it is in socially conservative anticapitalism (or to a lesser degree ""anticapitalism"" in the vein of "anti corporate wokeness" etc, which is where the right seems to be trending these days) and in radically progressive anticapitalism. I think that the class blind managerial progressivism of previous decades is a waning political force, so I am not very threatened by it. Again, at worst, they still do good things, just not enough of them and too slowly. And I don't think that the progressivism is really an effective cover for the bad poo poo they do, they do the bad poo poo because a lot of the people who vote for them want them to do it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 02:44
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might actually be starting to see the hypothesized other half of the post-brexit realignment, where the tories get kicked out of  cosmopolitan london in exchange for their red wall gains materializing: labour took wandsworth and barnet and maybe westminster, and richmond is all the Lib Dems' Winning Here dreams come truehttps://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1522426764001169408?cxt=HHwWgMCyjezE36AqAAAA
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May 6, 2022 05:16
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Apraxin posted:might actually be starting to see the hypothesized other half of the post-brexit realignment, where the tories get kicked out of I hope Wandsworth swinging labour means that next time we do this there are more than two TUSC candidates to vote for, because I’d like one on my ward.
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May 6, 2022 06:25
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If you want a litterer for a neighbor vote labour.
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May 6, 2022 06:28
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May 6, 2022 06:41
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Hard to feel any satisfaction when they won and we're living in their world now
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May 6, 2022 06:50
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Tarnop posted:Hard to feel any satisfaction when they won and we're living in their world now Yup This is about the emptiest I've ever felt at election time. It is very hard to see any of it as mattering.
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May 6, 2022 07:44
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So my understanding is that Labour has won council seats off the conservatives in London but has failed to make progress anywhere else?
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May 6, 2022 08:06
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a pipe smoking dog posted:So my understanding is that Labour has won council seats off the conservatives in London but has failed to make progress anywhere else? still less than half declared already some weapons grade copium being deployed tho
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May 6, 2022 08:12
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I don't understand, I thought keith made the party electable again
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May 6, 2022 08:26
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Paperhouse posted:I don't understand, I thought keith made the party electable again Being electable isn't the same thing as getting elected, its very different and far more sensible which is why you should read me writing for 5000 words in the Guardian about our glorious "electable" future.
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May 6, 2022 08:31
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he doesn't have to win elections to be electable but he is electable
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May 6, 2022 08:32
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Labour's Electorial Woes are the same as they ever were and ever will be. If you're gonna smoke (Vote Labor who are and will remain forevermore Massive-Airquotes -Diet Tory) then you might as well huff the entire packet (Vote Tory), gently caress your body up six ways to Sunday, and be done with it. ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 08:53 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 08:45
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ConanThe3rd posted:Labour's Electorial Woes are the same as they ever were and ever will be. I'd far rather not vote for either
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May 6, 2022 09:08
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That's why its smoking.
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May 6, 2022 09:09
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Local election results live: The first thing I see when I look at that page is the Tories gaining three wards from Labour against one ward going the other way. If that's persistent, Starmer won't be Labour leader when the sun goes down.
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May 6, 2022 09:23
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The Guardian page is very much framing it as "blue bar is down, red bar is up" which is all a lot of people will pay attention to.
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May 6, 2022 09:26
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Which bar is kieth at at half 9 in the morning?
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May 6, 2022 09:28
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https://twitter.com/Ken_Stonger/status/1522488776395825152?t=boPvV7Z6ZTkN5bz9X1QKvw&s=19
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May 6, 2022 09:53
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Guavanaut posted:Which bar is kieth at at half 9 in the morning? The one he entered in last night.
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May 6, 2022 09:54
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Yeah but that was when Corbyn was up against t.may not the powerhouse political success story that is b. Johnson
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May 6, 2022 10:21
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https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1522494046937227264 lmao
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