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Crackbone posted:There's a big market for third party BB teams, crazy quality stuff. They are pricey but still less than kitbashing a team from GW models. I love that Greebo team, but I play at a Warhammer store fairly often so I try to do GW models when I can. Though they're making it tough with the price increases.
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May 7, 2022 06:27
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Bored Online posted:The new killteam box reveal has me questioning something from the compendium. I am new to the game, and have only played with explicitly killteam units. The box will come with new rules for a bespoke space marine team that'll be different to the compendium. But they released a balance update that lets space marine teams except scouts and tacticals take an extra body. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/NoRqWNpHoXuqIbg8.pdf That document is the quarterly balance update thingo which isn't with the other FAQs for Kill Team on the community site. 
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May 7, 2022 07:16
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Squibsy posted:Those Necro squats are going to be EXTREMELY annoying to fight. Heavy armour, presumably high toughness/wounds, and hi-tech weapons. My group already hates Van Saar, these are probably going to be worse Haha, so is the balance between gangs as off as it was in the old Necromunda? Playing Van Saar in that version was essentially a faux-pas as the become so overpowered as campaigns went on. The hate for them was immense. We didn't let anyone play them in our big campaign.
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May 7, 2022 09:18
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Virtual Russian posted:Haha, so is the balance between gangs as off as it was in the old Necromunda? Playing Van Saar in that version was essentially a faux-pas as the become so overpowered as campaigns went on. The hate for them was immense. We didn't let anyone play them in our big campaign. It's not good. More than overpowered gangs the problem is heavily skewed gangs, especially Butchers and Van Saar. There's a lot of gangs that can ruthlessly punish you if they can bring their OP strength to bear, or if you simply lack the tool you need to handle their particular gimmick. You can't even really solve this by ditching all the weird non-core gangs, because Van Saar and Goliaths have this problem. The problem decreases somewhat as gangs get more developed, but then you run into a new problem that most gangs end up more and more similar as they all pick the same OP upgrades from the trading post, and a number of gangs just do not scale.
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May 7, 2022 09:31
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If a friend and I want to get into Necromunda, what's a good way to start? It seems really difficult to get into now. What rule books do I even get? I already own a Van Saar box (I got it as a gift a long time ago) and plenty of terrain but I'm not dead set on Van Saar. I'd love to get two teams that are fairly balanced towards each other.
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May 7, 2022 10:31
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Cease to Hope posted:It's not good. More than overpowered gangs the problem is heavily skewed gangs, especially Butchers and Van Saar. There's a lot of gangs that can ruthlessly punish you if they can bring their OP strength to bear, or if you simply lack the tool you need to handle their particular gimmick. You can't even really solve this by ditching all the weird non-core gangs, because Van Saar and Goliaths have this problem. The problem decreases somewhat as gangs get more developed, but then you run into a new problem that most gangs end up more and more similar as they all pick the same OP upgrades from the trading post, and a number of gangs just do not scale. My issue with the Van Saar in particular is that they are so min-maxed out of the box, they are really railroaded into one play style and adapting their champions to try to make up for this one-dimensionality costs a ton of XP and really feels like an uphill struggle. Consequently the gang tends to go all-in on a play style that is just frustrating for opponents to play. There are some very cool pieces of the van Saar style and I absolutely love the models, but they are definitely a feels bad faction to play once everyone else in your campaign starts to grumble about virtually all of your models hitting on 2+ even against fighters in cover, and their weapons never run out of ammo. Goliaths are a little more rounded but their core advantages (high toughness and strengths) are universally great and especially combined with skills that help them avoid or recover from pinning, they become extremely hard to kill and very capable of dominating the mid-field.
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May 7, 2022 11:07
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Bored Online posted:The new killteam box reveal has me questioning something from the compendium. I am new to the game, and have only played with explicitly killteam units. The bespoke teams have a large number of specialists, but still limit the team to X models. For example, the Legionary team has 10 models because there are 9+ specialists but the team is still limited to six models.
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May 7, 2022 13:03
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a7m2 posted:If a friend and I want to get into Necromunda, what's a good way to start? It seems really difficult to get into now. What rule books do I even get? I just started and picked up the core rule book and the House of _____ for my gang as was recommended here, has everything you need and a big campaign. If you can wait, and if the Ash Wastes rulebook is coming out soon (I think someone here said like 3 weeks?) then I'd probably grab that rulebook instead.
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May 7, 2022 13:05
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a7m2 posted:If a friend and I want to get into Necromunda, what's a good way to start? It seems really difficult to get into now. What rule books do I even get? As stated, just wait for the new rule book to come out. Also, you'll find that none of the gangs are really balanced against each other. They all tend to skew heavily one way or another. Probably the most internally balanced all-around gang is Orlocks, but you're not going to want to fight a mirror match. Necromunda is not a game about balance, so don't get it in your head that you are going to be able to throw two gangs on the table and have a equal battle. Terrain and mission figure heavily into the game - try to run your goliaths across an open table against some Van Saar, and you're going to get murdered. Run them in Zone Mortalis with a lot of LOS blocking and short lanes of fire, and the Van Saar are going down hard. In short, pick up a gang that 1) looks good to you; and 2) fits the style of play you prefer (CC, shooting, skulking around, etc.) Prepare to lose a lot of gangers, and hope it's spectacular, because the stories are where NM shines.
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May 7, 2022 15:27
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Just picked up the Kill Team starter and some friends and I are planning to start playing. This might be a dumb question but if I wanted to dip into Tyrannids I just buy the regular 40k warrior box right?
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May 7, 2022 20:00
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Six tyrannid warriors is pretty common in my local meta. They're basically an auto-win vs. 4 custodes teams, though they can easily get outplayed by swarmier lists like veteran guard or novitiates.
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May 7, 2022 20:25
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Len posted:Just picked up the Kill Team starter and some friends and I are planning to start playing. This might be a dumb question but if I wanted to dip into Tyrannids I just buy the regular 40k warrior box right? a box of genestealers would be the cheaper option
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May 7, 2022 20:35
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But they don't look as cool Good point though because 3 warriors looks like a $60 price tag
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May 7, 2022 20:39
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am i reading it right that the squads in the starter box are a full kill team by themselves? looking at the other lists they say things like "a kill team is made of two fire teams from this list" but the ones in the box just say a kill team is just the veteran guard or just the ork kommandos
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May 7, 2022 22:18
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Yes and also for marine teams you get 6 dudes, not 5. There's been some big FAQs
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May 7, 2022 22:26
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Len posted:am i reading it right that the squads in the starter box are a full kill team by themselves? looking at the other lists they say things like "a kill team is made of two fire teams from this list" but the ones in the box just say a kill team is just the veteran guard or just the ork kommandos Yeah the kt specific boxes are proper valid teams. Technically the krieg can forgo some fire support strategies and field an extra 4 models for 14 models total. You can't physically build every option from the kit without converting, as some options share a single arm, good work GW. Some teams are made up of two fire teams, the rules for the fire teams spell out they're 3/4/5 etc models each.
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May 7, 2022 22:37
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neat. guess it's a good thing the store i was at didn't have any tyrannid warriors then because i was only going to buy one and apparently you need two and why the hell are they $20 / model
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May 7, 2022 22:47
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For the Kreig team you can't even build one of every option with two boxes without some converting.
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May 7, 2022 22:47
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The cheapest kill team is easily Ork Kommandos, one box gets you a full team with all options, 12 models total. If you want to fill your roster with a Nob using a different weapon and 7 regular kommando boyz you'll never use you can, but realistically the one box is all you need. Pathfinders are pretty good too, I think you can do all options or close to it if you get the box and a set of tactical drones. The Krieg guys were definitely designed strangely and you really need two boxes and some conversion to get the full team.
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May 8, 2022 00:54
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For the exact converting I had to do it only took converting one arm that was originally for a lasgun to work on a special gun.
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May 8, 2022 01:45
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Len posted:neat. guess it's a good thing the store i was at didn't have any tyrannid warriors then because i was only going to buy one and apparently you need two as someone whose also getting into the hobby, Tyranids are practically made for the ebay and craigslist market
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May 8, 2022 02:47
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Len posted:neat. guess it's a good thing the store i was at didn't have any tyrannid warriors then because i was only going to buy one and apparently you need two because models are priced by their effectiveness on the table/list, not the cost of the plastic to produce them or the complexity of their design
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May 8, 2022 02:51
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Still better than magic at least
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May 8, 2022 03:15
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Len posted:Still better than magic at least never played, do they do the same with card rarity/usefulness?
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May 8, 2022 03:34
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Moola posted:never played, do they do the same with card rarity/usefulness? Only instead of them being that price at MSRP they're that price on the secondary market
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May 8, 2022 03:36
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Moola posted:because models are priced by their effectiveness on the table/list, not the cost of the plastic to produce them or the complexity of their design What? Thats absolutely not how prices are set, for one thing tabletop effectiveness changes way to often for that to be true and for another the hunk of poo poo that is the chaos land raider and defiler are both $80 bucks. Prices are set by unit type. Basic infantry hover between $38 to $60 depending on whether they are horde infantry or super heavy elites. Heroes are in the $35 to $50 and centerpiece monsters/vehicles are over $150 regardless of their efficacy.
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May 8, 2022 03:57
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AnEdgelord posted:What? Thats absolutely not how prices are set, for one thing tabletop effectiveness changes way to often for that to be true and for another the hunk of poo poo that is the chaos land raider and defiler are both $80 bucks. Maybe effectiveness was the wrong word, I don't mean the units current tabletop meta, if that was true Plague Marines would be like a £100 kit or something lol. I mean how important the unit is supposed to be on the table/codex Like you said, troops are much more economical kits considering how many models you get in them versus elite and HQ choices A Primaris Ancient is £24 for a single space marine model, with virtually no customization options because he is an Elites choice. Where as an entire Intercessor box kit is £36 and can make up to 10 space marine models with customization options. Obviously the Primaris Ancient is way more expensive per head, not because his model is 10ft tall or because he has 100 extra arms, or 50 swords, but purely because he's an Elites choice, therefore he must cost more despite looking almost exactly the same as a Intercessor It's been this way since 3rd edition at least as far as I can remember. I do miss the days of 2nd edition where metal blister packs were based almost entirely on their metal cost. So a single metal Terminator versus a metal Chaplain model was about £2 price difference
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May 8, 2022 05:00
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Len posted:Only instead of them being that price at MSRP they're that price on the secondary market this reminds me I am glad I never got into "serious" x-wing games
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May 8, 2022 05:08
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Floppychop posted:For the exact converting I had to do it only took converting one arm that was originally for a lasgun to work on a special gun. I got cheeky and converted some of the special weapons to one handed, like a really badass pose where a gunner is holding a melta gun in his left hand and throwing a grenade in the right. But I still kinda want to get another box so I can have 4 dudes with lasguns, even though the COD killstreaks are so sick.
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May 8, 2022 05:49
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That would have been a better idea. My brain locked on the standard pose.
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May 8, 2022 06:22
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Squibsy posted:Those Necro squats are going to be EXTREMELY annoying to fight. Heavy armour, presumably high toughness/wounds, and hi-tech weapons. My group already hates Van Saar, these are probably going to be worse You are not wrong there mate. Bit worried about rapid fire inflation here, sounds like all their weapons are going to be RF2 equivalents of existing stuff, possibly with ammo check/reloading mechanisms to indicate their stereotypical dwarven reliability. As you say, a heavily armoured uber shooty elite gang isn't that fun to play against. OTOH, I've played with a friend who used the 'squat' Venators profiles exclusively in a campaign (kharadon model conversions) and that 3" movement hurts them a LOT. Virtual Russian posted:Haha, so is the balance between gangs as off as it was in the old Necromunda? Playing Van Saar in that version was essentially a faux-pas as the become so overpowered as campaigns went on. The hate for them was immense. We didn't let anyone play them in our big campaign. Squibsy is quite right, it's not so much overall balance like 'you've chosen Cawdor (name picked at random, I'm not making a point about them specifically) so you will never have a real chance of winning'. It's about gangs that can skew into one thing. Van Saar are unquestionably the best gang at shooting. So if you play on tables we'll adapted to shooting, and you can actually play the game well enough to ensure that shooting continues and isn't avoided by Line of Sight shenanigans etc, then you can dominate games with them. Ditto corpse grinders, if you can lean into their insane charges and melee output, and can play well enough to start that ball rolling (this is far easier on small tight tables) you'll be unstoppable. The biggest determinants of who's going to win in Necromunda are how well they actually understand the game, and the dice rolls. You're rolling so few dice that the expected result doesn't emerge reliably in a single game. There are so many options for your gang, in equipment/weapons, on the campaign layer, choosing skills etc, that no two gangs really need be alike. I really don't worry about faction choice at all when arbitrating campaigns. I worry about restraining individual players from over-optimising relative to the rest.
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May 8, 2022 09:30
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Roughly how many models do I need for a robust kill team roster? Like not just one kill team but some options and variety. I know it varies by army but it seems like maybe 8 - 16 is a comfortable number? I have a fairly small army bag with three trays and I'm trying to see how many factions I might rlbe able to fit.
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May 9, 2022 14:58
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Jack B Nimble posted:Roughly how many models do I need for a robust kill team roster? Like not just one kill team but some options and variety. I know it varies by army but it seems like maybe 8 - 16 is a comfortable number? I have a fairly small army bag with three trays and I'm trying to see how many factions I might rlbe able to fit. CSM are also a fairly small team if, and I assume that the marines in the next box will be about the same size. 1000 Sons from White Dwarf are also good if you don't fill up on Tzaangors.
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May 9, 2022 15:38
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Thanks, I'l think I should be good then. Quick follow up question for anyone with some Kill Team experience: how do you feel about the Soritas infantry box vs the specific Novitiate box?
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May 9, 2022 15:43
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Novitates has a lot of fun options and special powers. I'd probably only make a normal sisters team if I already had the models. My main problem with the Novitates is that you can't make all the options out of a single box Electric Hobo fucked around with this message at 15:53 on May 9, 2022 |
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May 9, 2022 15:49
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Jack B Nimble posted:Thanks, I'l think I should be good then. Quick follow up question for anyone with some Kill Team experience: how do you feel about the Soritas infantry box vs the specific Novitiate box? Novitiates are absolutely top tier, though yes, you'll need two boxes for all your toys. Their dice manipulation mechanic means that, with enough Faith points, you can nearly guarantee the result you need on one or two key rolls each turn. Keep your Sister Superior alive and she'll be deleting a model per turn with supercharged plasma while the rest of your ladies sneak forward to cap objectives, push buttons, and set up charge threats. It's a fun play style. Oh, and the ministorum flamers are brutal, you'll nearly always want to run two.
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May 9, 2022 17:48
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For those that got the Ash Wastes box a scenery designer made a bunch of posts regarding neat stuff that was designed in. There's way more than just the one I've linked. https://twitter.com/Owen_Patten/status/1523648983838601217?s=20&t=pK7Z-xEWpFbiEX-hbpZPCw
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May 9, 2022 19:16
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Floppychop posted:For those that got the Ash Wastes box a scenery designer made a bunch of posts regarding neat stuff that was designed in. There's way more than just the one I've linked. Thank you so much for this. I’m building an ash wastes table right now and this is awesome info
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May 9, 2022 22:37
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Genghis Cohen posted:Squibsy is quite right, it's not so much overall balance like 'you've chosen Cawdor (name picked at random, I'm not making a point about them specifically) so you will never have a real chance of winning'. It's about gangs that can skew into one thing. Van Saar are unquestionably the best gang at shooting. So if you play on tables we'll adapted to shooting, and you can actually play the game well enough to ensure that shooting continues and isn't avoided by Line of Sight shenanigans etc, then you can dominate games with them. Ditto corpse grinders, if you can lean into their insane charges and melee output, and can play well enough to start that ball rolling (this is far easier on small tight tables) you'll be unstoppable. That doesn't sound so bad. Old Van Saar's just had all the best tables to roll on for experience gains and (maybe) equipment. The game also heavily favoured shooting, even on a dense board. Cawdor was great in the early game of campaigns, Juves with hand-flamers in an ambush scenario were beyond insane. The gang had serious drop-off after that, as did a lot of the gangs. I know you weren't calling out Cawdor, but an opponent used them and I have hand-flamer related trauma I must touch on.
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May 10, 2022 04:03
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Virtual Russian posted:Cawdor was great in the early game of campaigns, Juves with hand-flamers in an ambush scenario were beyond insane. The gang had serious drop-off after that, as did a lot of the gangs. I know you weren't calling out Cawdor, but an opponent used them and I have hand-flamer related trauma I must touch on. butchers can still do this in newcromunda in every scenario that doesn't specifically prevent it. their juves get infiltrate (by default, part of their base kit!) and access to hand flamers, which are even better than in oldcromunda
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May 10, 2022 07:21
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