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Blue On Blue posted:ok so gear aside, what is the general opinion on something old (and cheap to buy) like a BMW K75 or K100? Get a CB750 and document your journey. e: sorry, forgot what thread I was in. I'll repeat this: HenryJLittlefinger posted:Dual sports in the 250 (Suzuki TW/VanVan, Yamaha XT250, Kawasaki KLX300) to 400 (DRZ400) range make great first bikes and are a blast to ride on pavement, especially if you have the option for a supermoto setup (DRZ400 and the new KLX300 have factory supermoto options). Plus, if you see a gravel road that looks fun, you can just turn down it with a little extra confidence. IMO, a middleweight dual sport is not just one of the best bikes for newer riders, it's one of the best bikes ever. These are the closest thing to scrambler styled bikes in terms of ergos, and arguably better suited to actual scrambler-type riding than any modern bike called a scrambler. They make nearly everything about riding a motorcycle much more accessible and fun, except maybe going fast. Because a Japanese dual sport from this century is one of the easiest bikes in the world to work on. The only downside to that is unless you start loving around with one or neglect it you might not have a whole lot of opportunities to wrench. HenryJLittlefinger fucked around with this message at 21:24 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 21:19
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The best thing you can do as a new rider is buy the most modern and reliable (read: Japanese) starter bike you can afford. Lots of people have started on a 30-plus-year-old bike because it's cheap and they don't mind wrenching, only to find that the wrenching becomes a frustrating barrier to actually riding. If the bike leaves you stranded once or twice or if you have to tear the carbs apart or if you get stuck waiting for a part on order, you won't have a bike to ride. IDK anything about those specific BMWs but the principal is fairly universal. You can always buy a bike to wrench on later. e:f,b twice but you get the message at least
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May 4, 2022 21:23
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ya makes sense, i guess its the same as a new driver buying a 30 year old car and has a chance to fall apart every turn
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May 4, 2022 21:30
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Besides what everyone else said, those are 500lb bikes. Big heavy bikes are not great for your development as a new rider, especially if you are smaller than your average bear. Not that it's impossible, but a lighter bike is easier to start on, practice basic skill with and feel confident about.
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May 4, 2022 21:36
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I tried on a AGV K3 and M-L fit great, its in my price range, and has lots of features Any issues with that helmet?
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May 5, 2022 01:14
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AGV has a great reputation and pros wear them.
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May 5, 2022 01:52
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Plus they look super cool
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May 5, 2022 02:10
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OP if you want an old rear end bike to learn on and ride Buy a dr650*. They've not been updated since 1996 so you can go buy one from 2021 and still have that vintage nostalgic feel with bright new plastics and bold new graphics. *pro-mode is putting supermoto wheels on it.
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May 5, 2022 02:22
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Slavvy posted:You answered your own question there. No an old bmw is not a good thing to buy, not reliable, not remotely fun or rewarding or even educational to work on. They are also very heavy, garbage to ride, an appalling learner bike. Truths.
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May 6, 2022 11:32
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Blue On Blue posted:ya makes sense, i guess its the same as a new driver buying a 30 year old car and has a chance to fall apart every turn I would say it's even worse than that, most cars even going back 30 years will take years of abuse and neglect and still get their drivers to their destinations partly by the virtue of having four wheels....generally if something goes wrong the car just coasts to a stop. Motorcycles are far less forgiving to both mistakes and neglect by their owners. Cars need to be designed up to the standard of a midwestern winter or Arizona 24/7/365 heat so they need to be able to start in -30F to 125F, they need corrosion protection, they need beefy cooling systems. Bikes just aren't built to that standard.
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May 6, 2022 12:08
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What makes Japanese bikes from the 90s unreliable? Is it the quality or just age catching up to them?
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May 6, 2022 14:36
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katka posted:What makes Japanese bikes from the 90s unreliable? Is it the quality or just age catching up to them? The quality was very good it's just age at this point. The charging systems and wiring are weak to begin with and fail. Otherwise it's typical old bike things: cam chain tensioners, starter sprags/clutches, 4 carb racks and everything that can go bad with them. It's expensive maintenance and the older a bike gets the less it's worth, the more it becomes a labor of love.
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May 6, 2022 14:53
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Ok that’s pretty much what I figured. Good to know though. I do love the look of 90s sport bikes and would love to get one for a project bike one day.
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May 6, 2022 15:36
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Gorson posted:The quality was very good it's just age at this point. The charging systems and wiring are weak to begin with and fail. Otherwise it's typical old bike things: cam chain tensioners, starter sprags/clutches, 4 carb racks and everything that can go bad with them. It's expensive maintenance and the older a bike gets the less it's worth, the more it becomes a labor of love. The corollary is that the older these bikes get, the more expensive parts get for them.
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May 6, 2022 17:03
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:The corollary is that the older these bikes get, the more expensive parts get for them. Yeah think of a graph with the horizontal axis being bike age in years and the vertical axis being level of hosed-ness and a non-linear curve going up to infinity. Classic cars are similar you're going to spend $100k restoring that barn-find Mustang fastback you got for $1000 but at least in the car world you have a pretty good pool of potential buyers who might give you your money back, in the bike world that market is razor-thin. Let's face it: there's just not enough Fabios out there. Best thing that can be done for long term health of any bike is just to ride it, keep the parts and fluids moving.
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May 6, 2022 17:24
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My first bike was a late 80s fzr400. It had been a trackbike most of its life and parked for a decade. It had no lights, no cooling fan, no starter or battery, and the bare minimal to make it run. The original 400 blew up, it had a random fzr600 engine crammed in with questionable decisions and a litany of unknown parts. It came with an uncut harness, that went in, put lights on it. got it running. one of the inner carbs' float valve failed. replaced all four. then diaphragms. then orings, then, then. I probably pulled the carbs 10 times before I put appreciable miles on the bike. To get to anything in that frame, the airbox or radiator have to come out. 18" rear tire, rapidly becoming no longer available in brand name. Finally got it plated. final drive parts, aluminum only, bike eats them aggressively. Stator poo poo itself, it ate the old 80s regulators like candy, weird, it came with a few, I bought many more. I eventually just kept a second spare bolted to the bike. the fzr engine started burning oil at a prodigious rate, like moreso than it usually did around a year or so into ownership. 400 or 600 engines were mostly not available locally but I did find a yzf600 engine and that's close enough. More carb fuckery to get a yzf600 rack of ram carbs to work without the ram intake. Iirc it was a mix of the fzr rack and the yzf rack with jetting I had to setup without a known baseline. To pull the intake cam for valve checks meant dropping the engine. The radiator wasn't really big enough for the yzf engine, nor were there any easy alternatives. The sprocket was positioned differently than the fzr engines so that also had to be addressed by using other bike parts to get the sprocket in line with the rear wheel. A few months after the engine swap the bike tried to kill me. I was riding home from the shop at night kind of spiritedly, and the bike lost power in a corner. like, full engine electrical loss. start to bring the bike vertical, get on the brakes, power backfed from the brakelight circuit to the ignition system, boom, engines alive again. annnnd it tries to highside. Rewire #1, harness is beginning to fall apart. This was my only ride sometimes because my other degenerate rides were Land Rovers, sometimes four so at once. I threw an emulator kit in the forks, that helped them greatly. It had a fox shock out back that was rebuildable by most any suspension shop. 18" tires, still a bastard, getting worse. Fast forward a few years here. Rectifier number unknown dies on I15 in socal, in fast moving afternoon traffic, in front of a semi, ironically enough, on the way home from a cycle-salvage place having bought a shiny used R1 FH rectifier because I was o v e r the 80s-90s Yamaha rectifiers. Yet again this old rear end bike tries to kill me. Except this time when it dies, it also blows out a handful of lights and damages the cluster. Electric start dies around the same time again. I moving west in a matter of weeks so I didn't really have time to fix it. I threw new lights at it and rode it without instrumentation or a starter. It didn't have a catch can for coolant, but a little tube that ran from the radiator's overflow fitting upward alongside the windscreen. That's a fine enough temperature gauge. I met my now husband around this time. He'd make quips about the push-start beater fzr, given his newish ninja 650 that always worked, it was justified. Cue rewire #2. Full rewire and modernization with a koso gauge. (hey its what was available at the time). I fixed the electric start again. newer switchgear sourced from Honda/Kawi/Yamaha. HID lighting, R1 tail lamp, Kawi 636 cooling fan + a random Yamaha R1 fan. I tried a pair of Spals with a nice fabricated shroud and it just sucked. At this time, suspension need service, front brakes are shot. I found a gsxr750 front end with 6 pot calipers to throw under it, already valved and sprung for my weight. cue another rabbithole that ended with Ducati snowflake rotors backed by giant calipers on the stock fzr wheel with a custom axle my spouse and I machined. The bike was a w e s o m e again. Brakes that could stop an Airbus and suspension that better translated what the road, engine, and I fed into it. But. I was living in Vegas now, the bike could pretty much only be ridden during the winter months. it would just run hot no matter what anytime the ambient temp was over 90ish. It had a heavily modified fzr600 radiator with less than 5mm of clearance in every direction between engine, bodywork, and cylinder head. There was no fix for it outside of a custom radiator and nah, not doing it. I even considered a secondary radiator like what old MV Agusta F4s do. 18" tires from Bridgestone are basically no longer available now and that's when I called it and sold the bike. I wasn't into Shinkos in that era of my riding career, I was thoroughly tired of buying final drive parts, and I wanted to ride more than just the winter. I threw six figures worth of miles on this dumb bike from 2011 to 2014, two full rewires, at least two more partials, two engines, two racks of carbs, two suspension redesigns, two sets of bodywork and three tails, three stators, probably a half dozen rectifiers, countless tires and final drive parts. My now husband liked this bike so much he went out and bought one shortly after I moved in with him. A later one with some really really nice upgrades. super stock, 400 engine, ready for racing in stock class, safety wired, case savers, perfect bodywork. It milkshakes the engine on his first ride. It spent 2 or 3 years apart. I put the engine back together and got it running in time to sell it as we were moving to San Francisco and it couldn't come. TL;DR: Old bikes are going to be hella needy. They are old. Miles and owner care kinda matter, but they are o l d. Plastics get brittle, rubber degrades. You'll need to be creative in sourcing parts. Less can I get this at the dealer, or used from ebay. more what can I find that is close and adapt for this bike? Electrics are poo poo. sometimes righteously so. Parts availability is usually nil in this department. The carbs are going to be a source of hassle here and there with parts not easily available. Intake boots and such are getting easier to reproduce with 3D printing in TPU. Suspension service parts should be available, however if something internal goes wrong, don't count on it. You can get an old reasonably bike reliable. Don't expect it to be an appliance. Old vehicles have their quirks and they're going to let you down if you expect new Goldwing consistency. There's this idea that its only going to be awesome, picture-esque, and instagram worthy. Reality is less in line with that. Its like living in a van. The instagram picture perfect shots of a spotless sterile three-hundred-thousand dollar sprinter van but they don't talk about making GBS threads in home depot buckets after getting some bad road food. It is not for everyone despite the lust to go there. cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 17:54 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 17:39
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There's a huge difference between my SV (1999) and my FZR (1991?) The SV: new regulator. Worn through bit of' wire isolation causing a short. That's it. The thing only needs standard maintenance. The carb was cleaned by the PO because it had been sitting for years after the PPO quit riding. The FZR (at the previous owner): completely new homemade wiring harness because it was majorly hosed up by a previous owner. New brake lines. New front brake calipers. Carburetors disassembled and overhauled. Rubber air intake boot cracked, extremely hard to find, drove for a year before finding a new old one that is still in good shape. Suspension front and back replaced by Hyperpro (it's an odd sensation, it's super soft when you bounce on it when sitting still, but it corners like on rails) New original exhaust, but needed a bracket manufactured for it. New voltage regulator. Things i need to do: Still working on the rear brake which i don't yet completely trust. Needs a new battery. Needs an extra high beam switch because the PO (who fixed most things) rewired it so the LED lights could be turned off during starting because he's afraid of voltage spikes, at the cost of having a high beam. Sorta needs a new throttle cable because the current one is reliable but quite stiff. Needs rust mitigation, i can see fresh superficial rust appearing on the swingarm which will eventually cause structural issues if left to rot. It does not like road salt. The SV doesn't care. Clutch slips under high loads when the engine is not yet at full operating temperature. And when all mechanical bits are fixed, i'm gonna get new fairings for it because it misses all stuff from the seat forward. If i find a *proper* fzr400, zxr400 or similar before everything's fixed though, i might just send the 600 over to the next guy for the price i paid for it. I have a great need for something 4 cylinder with dual round headlights. Of course, this was reflected in price. I paid EUR 1750 for the SV 5 years ago, but just 500 for the FZR600 1,5 years ago. By all means, get an old bike. But if you wanna ride, just get something ready to ride too. I'd be really bummed out if my FZR troubles would have meant i couldn't ride at all.
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May 6, 2022 18:03
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I respect the hell out of that, but that just solidified I’m never buying something without a warranty. Maybe ever. Goddamn. Okay, I’m never going to be without a bike that has a warranty. I reserve the right to also have a project on the side, but never without a main bike to just get around when I want/need to.
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May 6, 2022 18:17
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Geekboy posted:Okay, I’m never going to be without a bike that has a warranty. I reserve the right to also have a project on the side, but never without a main bike to just get around when I want/need to. This is the way I'm heading, too. I have come to appreciate the value of a vehicle that will start every time and won't break down during a journey. Goes for cars and bikes both, even if I don't rely on my bikes for commuting I want to be able to go riding any time worry free.
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May 6, 2022 18:48
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Geekboy posted:I respect the hell out of that, but that just solidified I’m never buying something without a warranty. Maybe ever. Goddamn. Hey and this is totally fine! My husband runs new poo poo and it works out for him (and me). I've mostly run older bikes not out of necessity, but by choice. The only injected one being a 2008 wr250r in 2019, I kept it for a riding season then sold it on. Had a 2007 klr in 2014-2015 shortly after I sold the fzr, the yz supermoto, yz dirtbike, the benz, and the rovers because I was d o n e with needy poo poo. I killed it in about a year when a dirtbike tboned me. Go figure. I'm currently running a 2004 ktm with closer to 100k-mi than not. Factory parts supplies for it are rapidly drying up by the year, aftermarket is still really solid. When it gets too old for daily duties/long trips I won't sell it but get a second bike(probably a riding appliance from this decade) to offset its use load. *for me, I like the mechanical simplicity of a carburetored minimal-electronics bike. I severely dislike points ignition so there's limitations. I've no problem with electronics, it makes unapproachable bikes, approachable for those that don't have the skillset to enjoy the bike otherwise. It makes an otherwise unsettled chassis or an engine with unusual character refined. It's less cognitive load for the rider when the bike can manage itself. When I can get keyless go and radar cruise for a lot less than 30 grand(ugh, multistrada), I'm going all in on something newer. Till then? haha, no.
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May 6, 2022 19:00
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Warranty makes the financial pain a lot less, but it still sucks if you gotta trailer your bike to the garage or have it towed or whatever, and then be bikeless for the rest of the week. So even with warranty, don't take too big risks like buying a chinabike or an indian made, euro brand bike or whatever. Unless you live so close to the dealership that getting your bike there is not a Big Thing to do on a day that you got better things to do.
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May 6, 2022 21:53
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My bike being Japanese is the warranty I thought.
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May 6, 2022 23:39
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Russian Bear posted:My bike being Japanese is the warranty I thought. It's the only kind of warranty that actually prevents breakdowns so yeah
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May 6, 2022 23:54
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Slavvy posted:You answered your own question there. No an old bmw is not a good thing to buy, not reliable, not remotely fun or rewarding or even educational to work on. They are also very heavy, garbage to ride, an appalling learner bike. 70s BMWs are somewhat fun to ride and easy to work on and not wildly different than their contemporary Japanese bikes in terms of reliability. If you want to learn to touch bikes deeply while not riding, a pre-80s BMW is fine. Even a British or Guzzi is fine, on the specific condition that they're already in good functional shape. Although that last condition is awfully hard to find. Hard agree on the Enfields though, those things (the singles) sucker in a lot of people. They are bad.
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May 7, 2022 04:04
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Also I’d say if you’re gonna get a 90’s bike, other than tire selection, 80’s bikes will be mostly the same By the 80’s it was all the same CDI ignitions, carburetors and garbo suspension that it was through most of the 90’s
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May 7, 2022 04:07
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I'm of the opinion that working on old bmw's will only teach you about the dumb weird poo poo bmw did and not really helpful stuff for general bike repairs. Fun to ride is an arbitrary thing so I'll retract that part, but nothing that big or heavy makes for a good learner.
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May 7, 2022 04:34
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I feel like my back tire wasn’t showing any wear and now it definitely is. Front tire still looks fricking new. The wear is so down the middle of the tire that I am a little self-conscious about it. I plan on checking the tire pressure before I ride again, but it hadn’t lost any when I’d checked it before. It looks like this is a Shinko 705 dual sport tire, which appears to be the cheapest brand at Cycle Gear. This seems like a bad match for a 2017 Roadster that I don’t intend to ride on more than a few gravel roads at a trailhead here and there (at least not for another year or two) but that I’ll primarily be riding on backroads and the occasional freeway. I thought I had more time before I went tire shopping, but I guess not. I’m all about safety, so I don’t want to push it on a bad tire, but I’m also not exactly flush at the moment. How long do you think I have left and what do folks recommend as a good 90+% cruiser tire? I will probably trade the bike in next year, so I’ll admit I have some temptation to get the same $150 tire and slap on there so it matches the front, but y’all know better than I do. I am probably going to stick to stuff I can get at Cycle Gear because I know it’s a bit of a pain to find folks who will do a tire swap around here. Geekboy fucked around with this message at 19:29 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 19:08
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Who the gently caress puts one of those on a Harley  Anyway that tire is hosed, it's also very inappropriate for the job, idk what was going on there but yeah, get rid of that. Pirelli night dragon, Michelin commander, metzeler cruizetech all work well on cruisers. You don't need a dual sport tire to ride gravel roads, you're better off with a tyre that functions well where the cars and crashes all are, there's no real 'safety' to be gained on gravel on a cruiser beyond just riding carefully. And finally, unrelated to tyres: please get a smaller bike before you hurt yourself.
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May 7, 2022 19:20
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Slavvy posted:Who the gently caress puts one of those on a Harley "Can you put some of these on my bike? I saw a bunch of scramblers and trackers with them on Instagram and they look pretty sweet"
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May 7, 2022 19:24
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By the time I actually go off road, I probably will. Looking more closely at the tires today had me asking the same, "what the hell?" question. Welp. Guess I'm trying to find $300 or so for a good back tire. If I can, I'll replace the front tire with something more appropriate in the next few months. edit: I think it's that they're literally some of the cheapest tires at the most convenient place in town. Dog Case posted:"Can you put some of these on my bike? I saw a bunch of scramblers and trackers with them on Instagram and they look pretty sweet" also this
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May 7, 2022 19:25
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Lmao are those the same Shinkos that come stock on the Monkey?
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May 7, 2022 19:51
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I’m going with “I need some grippier tires because this doesn’t handle well in a corner. No grippy like with some treads/blocks.” *service writer rolls eyes in his head* “sure my guy $350 plz”
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May 7, 2022 19:53
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I love my 705s on the DR650’s street wheelset. They’ve worn surprisingly evenly on mostly pavement riding. Once I got used to the front being really floaty on loose and/or deep gravel, I find them to have nearly the same stability and traction on FS/BLM dirt roads as my dirt set. I did a pretty good handful of miles at 30+ mph on a dirt road all loaded up with luggage a couple weeks back and it felt great.
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May 7, 2022 20:54
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Is wind a serious threat to riding? My Versys X 300 seems to mostly handle it ok, it's planted. Strong gusts I have to counter steer, highway riding can be a bit stressful. My Grom clone rides straight only if leaned 30 degrees and WOT in wind. It does batter my head around and it's taxing on my concentration. My friend on his 1000rr says he barely notices it. Not sure if it is a bike thing, my Versys 300 isn't very aerodynamic - or a skill thing, or both. I have only been riding a year. I did notice riding earlier today I didn't see a lot of bikes out. The streetlights were blowing sideways. It calmed down to half that and I noticed a lot of bikes later in the day.
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May 7, 2022 21:41
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Even if it's not a threat to control it's often unpleasant. You have to adjust your body's position and manipulate inputs to deal with alternating gusts and calm, and it also makes things colder, which may not actually be a downside depending on things.
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May 7, 2022 21:45
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We get evening "sundowners" here sometimes, strong winds that blow from the desert & foothills to the coastline and hit the coastal highway directly from the side. Those cause an especially spooky feeling of your tires being slid out from under you. Wind gusts can tip semis over, so there's clearly a point at which wind gets genuinely dangerous. That said I'm not sure if wind is any more dangerous for a bike than your average car; the more you can relax in spite of your stress, both body and controls, the less fatiguing it is. One time the sundowners were scary enough that a friend and I pulled over to wait them out, and watched the freeway from an overpass while we killed time. Saw someone flying along on a dual sport of some kind, standing up on the bike, and we thought that was on the crazy side of brave. In hindsight I wonder if they were trying to shift weight forward to stabilize the steering or something.
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May 7, 2022 23:23
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SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:Is wind a serious threat to riding? Depends on the wind and the bike! Stronger winds blow around lighter bikes more. Fairings and the side profile of the bike can change how much the wind can push you around, and how much you feel it. A wind that feels dangerous for you on your Grom is not going to feel as bad on your buddy's liter bike, and might be a non-issue on a Gold Wing. Personally I think that a steady wind is no big deal, regardless of the size of bike. You might end up leaning into it in order to track a straight line, which can feel strange at first, but it's really no different from leaning in a shallow turn. It's a bit like landing a plane in a crosswind. Fun! Gusty winds can be a lot scarier. One time I was riding across the Antioch Bridge (pic), a skinny two-lane bridge way up high over the Sacramento River, in a strong gusty wind, and not only did it feel like I was leaned over 45 degrees to ride straight (it was probably more like 10), but every time the wind shifted I would have to quickly react to avoid getting pushed into the barrier or over the side of the bridge. Not fun! I also do not like landing planes in gusty crosswinds!  That said, I think that until you get to hurricane-force stuff, the wind isn't actually that dangerous to a motorcycle as long as you're awake and respond quickly. The wind is not going to overwhelm your tire friction or anything. Back off on your riding (i.e. take the turns more carefully, leave more space than usual between you and cars) to give yourself some leeway and you'll be fine.
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May 8, 2022 00:16
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There's a relationship between weight, wheelbase, physical size and steering geometry that makes some bikes deathtraps in heavy side wind (eg super cub) and others basically immune (eg zx14). You'll never fall over or anything, unless it's a literal tornado, you just steadily lose steering authority as the wind gets heavier. At which point you slow down enough that you can steer where you want to go again. How you ride, how big you are has an effect on this because your body acts as a sail and your terrified death grip amplifies any unintended steering moments. So in rough order of difficulty you can mitigate wind by: making yourself smaller, making your bike longer, slowing down, relaxing.
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May 8, 2022 00:23
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Cool. I was leaning more forward and relaxing in the shoulders more to mitigate it somewhat. It's one of those things where it's nice and sunny out, not cold, I want to ride and not make excuses to not ride, but in the back of my mind I was like am I being stupid? Nothing surprising happened but I'm mentally exhausted. I am also trying to get practice in different conditions in case I ever do a road trip.
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May 8, 2022 01:18
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I find that in strong wind with moderate but not violent gusts, tucking in a little, relaxing, and taking my left hand off the bar actually helps me react a little more smoothly. Same as with steering under normal conditions, it only takes a little input to move the bike, it’s just more challenging when you get these strong and random lateral inputs. Fighting the wind with your shoulders and arms to keep it in line is bad form, but directing it back into line smoothly in response is good.
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May 8, 2022 04:33
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