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Bottom Liner posted:That’s because it’s a very cool and well done movie and a really dumb Marvel story. I think a different villain with less baggage would've made a big difference. As is, it's a very hard left from Wandavision, where we were supposed to sympathize with Wanda, to her killing everybody.
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May 7, 2022 17:27
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live with fruit posted:I think a different villain with less baggage would've made a big difference. As is, it's a very hard left from Wandavision, where we were supposed to sympathize with Wanda, to her killing everybody. It's really just more of a shift in perspective. Imagine Wandavision from the pov of one of the people in the town.
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May 7, 2022 17:41
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lezard_valeth posted:This is perphaps the first marvel movie I thoroughly did not enjoy. i have no idea about it's production, but it felt like it was tossed together in the 4 months since Spiderman No Way Home. you aren't wrong at all, it's just the kind of concession you have to make in order to enjoy the silly comic book poo poo. Strange wouldn't kill her, just like he wouldn't shred the time stone to prevent Thanos from using it. He does not have the best judgment on a cosmic scale.
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May 7, 2022 17:43
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live with fruit posted:I think a different [spoiler]villain with less baggage would've made a big difference. As is, it's a very hard left from Wandavision, where we were supposed to sympathize with Wanda, to her killing everybody. Strange I loved this choice! Hard disagree. I like MCUs Scarlet Witch and it was awesome seeing her being a terrifying prophesied corrupted entity. Honestly at the end of Wandavision this sort of thing is exactly what I anticipated. As somebody else posted, I think the intended take-away for comic fans to the end of wandavision was "Oh gently caress." I believe Harkness even explained how the SW was destined to rule or destroy everything, so it's weird to think of this as some huge change in character (especially since the character whose constant trauma seem to be her defining arc started reading the goddamn necronomicon after having to murder her family.) Gavok posted:This right here is my favorite change from the comics to the MCU. I have never found Adam Warlock to be interesting and keeping him away from Thanos means we didn't have to deal with the Jim Starlin writing style of "my original character Thanos is stronger and smarter than everyone else and nobody can beat him unless he allows himself to lose or if my other original character defeats him."  I wanted one where he was putting his hands on his head and going "AAAAARGH" but couldn't find it. Weird because that would be default Warlock in my mind. I always liked Warlock and Thanos, especially warlock's ridiculous acid trip comic book shenanigans time traveling to kill himself kind of stuff. Might just be because the Infinity trilogy is some of the first comics I read, and the acid part.[/spoiler] edit sorry hope I got those spoilers in fast enough.
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May 7, 2022 17:45
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Rarity posted:He was even wearing the Vaulting Boots of Valtorr! I had the same thought at first. He had a power restraint bracelet on, which was enough to deactivate his mystic sword, so it was probably enough to turn off the Boots. Not all artifacts are as independent or intelligent as the cloak, I assume.
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May 7, 2022 17:46
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live with fruit posted:I think a different villain with less baggage would've made a big difference. As is, it's a very hard left from Wandavision, where we were supposed to sympathize with Wanda, to her killing everybody. Yeah, but more in a hard lining the same exact arc for her again kinda way, and escalated now because they have to. It completely undoes any development she had in the show by having her triple down on the exact same "ends justify the means collateral damage blah blah".
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May 7, 2022 17:57
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There has to be at least one other America in the multiverse. I don't think the movie version can be the same version from the comics. I guess she had only been to 48 universes and so maybe she just hasn't traveled enough.
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May 7, 2022 18:01
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Pretty sure the implication is that the MCU has its own multiverse at least as far as its immediately available environment is concerned. Funny thing about the ending, it does a very similar thing to Spider-verse: The primary villain finally gets to be face to face with the other-dimension family they want so bad, only for said family to be openly horrified at them for their actions and what they've become, making it clear the entire quest was pointless. Difference is Kingpin would never be able to accept it was his own fault while Wanda realises at the last moment what kind of monster she looks like to everyone else, including and especially the kids she did it all for. The whole dream thing meanwhile I found a bit silly considering. Though it might make sense if it's an effect exclusive to the magically-oriented, like Strange, Wong, Wanda and America, for most people dreams are just the brain defragmenting like in irl.
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May 7, 2022 18:14
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Jedit posted:What Darkman references? crash zoom into the pupil of Strange's right eyeball, and I'm kinda disappointed there wasn't a zoom out from the left
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May 7, 2022 18:17
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Spacebump posted:There has to be at least one other America in the multiverse. I don't think the movie version can be the same version from the comics. I guess she had only been to 48 universes and so maybe she just hasn't traveled enough. And as a side note: was it me or was that Uncle Ben's car from Spider-Man 1 that was randomly floating in Sinister Strange's dimension? I guess he crashed his universe into a variant of the Raimiverse...
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May 7, 2022 18:17
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Also, movies need to stop throwing out 616 as a designation some random character comes up with for MCU. Stop trying to steal the comic universe's number. Maybe they shouldn't have made the MCU number 199999 edit: Yvonmukluk posted:I mean she also noted she doesn't dream, which is another way to experience multiversal counterparts. Given the MCU is designated 616 here, it's clearly a different multiverse from the comics. Just because a random Christine decided MCU is 616 doesn't mean she is right. The doesn't dream part is a good point. I think since the multiverse is infinite, the comics universe is connected. They just aren't going there...yet edit 2: Very much agree with the immediate post below. Spacebump fucked around with this message at 18:23 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 18:19
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having a character literally named "America" made some lines that were supposed to not be funny, be very funny there's the one where he 's like "you have to use America's power!!!" and the whole theater was like "lol"
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May 7, 2022 18:20
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Yvonmukluk posted:And as a side note: was it me or was that Uncle Ben's car from Spider-Man 1 that was randomly floating in Sinister Strange's dimension? I guess he crashed his universe into a variant of the Raimiverse... The 1973 Oldsmobile Delta 88 appears in, I'm pretty sure, every Sam Raimi film.
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May 7, 2022 18:25
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Bottom Liner posted:Yeah, but more in a hard lining the same exact arc for her again kinda way, and escalated now because they have to. It completely undoes any development she had in the show by having her triple down on the exact same "ends justify the means collateral damage blah blah". Plus Monica at the end of Wandavision absolves Wanda and Strange does the same thing here. The only character who was vocal about Wanda being bad was Hayward and he tried to kill children. They made a big jump from complicated hero to supervillain and her Homeless Dad motivation was lazy.
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May 7, 2022 18:38
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Movie loving sucked
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May 7, 2022 18:41
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I don't have a problem with Wanda being a villain. imo though the it feels odd though is because Wandavision at the end she made the choice to let the town go and sacrifice her family. While its plausible she could turn evil, character motivations that are "corrupted by evil artefact" are always cheaper than ones that are directly driven by their choices.
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May 7, 2022 18:43
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I think the movie should have also leaned way more into Wanda vs Scarlett Witch and not "evil book corrupts people".
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May 7, 2022 18:45
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precision posted:having a character literally named "America" made some lines that were supposed to not be funny, be very funny It did lead to an amazing moment at my theater when ,after America punched Wanda right in the face, someone yelled out, “America, gently caress YEAH!”
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May 7, 2022 18:55
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Bottom Liner posted:I think the movie should have also leaned way more into Wanda vs Scarlett Witch and not "evil book corrupts people". The twist that Wanda was evil from the jump was cool in the moment but from a distance it just looks like they rushed her characterization. As is, her heel turn is just five seconds in the post credit scene for Wandavision.
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May 7, 2022 19:08
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The scarlet witch prophecy, repeated losses and trauma and guilt, and reading the cursed corrupted book clearly lay a path for Wanda to become what she was in this film. I felt the rapid reveal early in the movie was purposefully jarring and effectively instilled a sense of dread, it really landed for me. Strange going to a familiar "hero" for help and she is in fact the very threat he fears and many steps ahead of him.live with fruit posted:The twist that [spoiler]Wanda was evil from the jump was cool in the moment but from a distance it just looks like they rushed her characterization. As is, her heel turn is just five seconds in the post credit scene for Wandavision. This is it without the bolded part IMO. I'm trying not to stan too hard for this movie, but it's funny that your criticisms are some of the things I thought it did best. Playing by the rules of the cinematic universe can make things predictable and less fun as a stand-alone film, but this kept me guessing the whole ride and some of the turns (like Wanda's deception) were very satisfying.[/spoiler]
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May 7, 2022 19:27
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I was never satisfied with how Wandavision left Wanda at the end. She enslaved and tortured an entire town and then tried to play the victim like a brooding, entitled teenager. Making it clear that she was on a direct and abrupt path to outright villainy makes that ending sit better with me Though that, in turn, makes Wanda's fate by the end of the film feel unsatisfactory and rushed.
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May 7, 2022 19:31
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BRJurgis posted:This is it without the bolded part IMO. I think it explains what someone said above about casual fans liking the movie more than the hardcore ones. From a standalone storytelling perspective, it was very exciting and set things off like a roller coaster. But as the 27th(?) story in a series and with a character who has hours of prior development, it was underwhelming if not disappointing.
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May 7, 2022 19:38
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Has nothing to with doctor strange but my favorite movie theater sam Raimi moment is when I saw drag me to hell and the only other people were these teenagers, and when poo poo popped off they loudly said after cracking up “wait, is this supposed to be funny???” I feel like that’s Sam Raimi in a nutshell. He goes for it and just wants you to have a good time
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May 7, 2022 19:58
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CelticPredator posted:Has nothing to with doctor strange but my favorite movie theater sam Raimi moment is when I saw drag me to hell and the only other people were these teenagers, and when poo poo popped off they loudly said after cracking up “wait, is this supposed to be funny???” One of my favorite Raimi quotes is from an old horror magazine in the 80s where he said he doesnt really make movies to make a point or say anything, he just wants to entertain people and have a good time. Ive always really admired that.
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May 7, 2022 20:07
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Pretty sure the implication is that the MCU has its own multiverse at least as far as its immediately available environment is concerned. Yeah, at this point the MCU and the comics universe are two separate, discrete entities, and 616 is the mainline for both. This does kinda hamper the idea that all Marvel entities are connected via the multiverse, but I can't blame them for wanting the baggage separate. It also makes sense that, with the MCU being as big as it is, the people behind it want it to be treated as a big deal and not some sideshow side universe.
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May 7, 2022 20:12
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The Bee posted:Yeah, at this point the MCU and the comics universe are two separate, discrete entities, and 616 is the mainline for both. This does kinda hamper the idea that all Marvel entities are connected via the multiverse, but I can't blame them for wanting the baggage separate. It also makes sense that, with the MCU being as big as it is, the people behind it want it to be treated as a big deal and not some sideshow side universe. MCU isn't 616 though, it's 199999. alternate Christine isn't some kind of official universe number designator imo.
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May 7, 2022 20:34
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Xander B Coolridge posted:I was never satisfied with how Wandavision left Wanda at the end. She enslaved and tortured an entire town and then tried to play the victim like a brooding, entitled teenager. I think they should have had just let America punch Wanda into hell and that's that. it would have been fine. I don't need horror monster lady to realize her stupid plan is a bad idea first, I don't care about her mental state and her need for children that sing weird off putting ice cream songs. Shouldn't Vision been somewhere in there?
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May 7, 2022 20:57
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It's vey funny to see people say "this movie is fun and good so it's a bad MCU film"
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May 7, 2022 21:07
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LesterGroans posted:It's vey funny to see people say "this movie is fun and good so it's a bad MCU film" It's a well crafted, unique film with clear directorial trappings of one of the better filmmakers in the horror genre. But it's a bad MCU film. Lol. Yeah that is pretty funny actually.
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May 7, 2022 21:13
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Spacebump posted:MCU isn't 616 though, it's 199999. alternate Christine isn't some kind of official universe number designator imo. Every scene we've seen of the MCU that brings a multiverse designation up calls it 616, including several feature films. 199999 comes from a handbook released shortly after the first Iron Man, before the MCU became a huge deal. I'm going to trust all of the recent in setting material thrown out with varying degrees of fanfare instead of a book so old it can drink in Germany.
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May 7, 2022 21:15
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The Bee posted:Every scene we've seen of the MCU that brings a multiverse designation up calls it 616, including several feature films. 199999 comes from a handbook released shortly after the first Iron Man, before the MCU became a huge deal. I'm going to trust all of the recent in setting material thrown out with varying degrees of fanfare instead of a book so old it can drink in Germany. Isn't it two scenes and one character was lying his rear end off during one of the scenes? It is just weird they look like they might be trying to take the designation. 616 shouldn't mean anything to people that don't read the comics and it has been established to mean a specific universe for a long time. Using it for the movie universe defeats the purpose of the number designations. I can get people going with the idea that somehow the multiverse from the comics are unconnected to the movie multiverse. I can kind of get behind this after Yvonmukluk reminded me movie America doesn't dream However, it is inevitable for the MCU to crossover with the real 616 one day. It is just weird to not have a different designation for MCU. The multiverse is supposed to be infinite. I think I'm the only one in this thread that seems to care so I'll stop after this post.
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May 7, 2022 21:29
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Did anyone see this in 3D? If so, were the effects translated well to 3D? It definitely seems like a movie that would be enhanced by a solid 3D experience.
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May 7, 2022 21:37
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I understand the plotting critiques but tbh knowing Raimi was directing I went in just expecting a campy, pulpy good time and I got that in spades. Definitely a movie that benefits from just turning your brain off as hard as possible and enjoying the ride. PantsBandit fucked around with this message at 21:52 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 21:48
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It really felt like a movie where you could see the seams, nothing quite clicked together neatly in the way that MCU films tend too. Even simple stuff like the memory lane sequence were noticeablely janky. It also suffered from the illuminati sequence having absolutely no weight to it at all. Narratively or in the SFX. The borrowed nostalgia for Stewart aside, watching mook one getting bodied incredibly violently as mook 2 watches on is loving dull. Reminded me of that awful spot in Spectre where they decided to ape Game of Thrones and it just didn’t land. This seemed like someone had watched the first few scenes of Invincible and then desperately cut it to avoid a proper rating, Credit gag was good thoughw
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May 7, 2022 21:52
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Everyone saying this is a fun unique film….how exactly? The pacing is all over the place. The character development is barely even there. America Chavez for example is barely developed. Wanda’s heel turn was handled atrociously from the tv show and here. It’s just boring. The fun raimi bits are fun but they’re only a small part of this movie. Highly disappointing as a stand-alone film
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May 7, 2022 21:52
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The REAL Goobusters posted:The fun raimi bits are fun but they’re only a small part of this movie. Highly disappointing as a stand-alone film I think this is where the disconnect is. To me it was a hella Raimi movie and I had a huge grin on my face the whole way through like if I were watching evil dead. I did have a few points in the movie where I was like "ok this is just dumb." The Memory Lane sequence being the major one. But those were small blemishes for me. PantsBandit fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 21:54
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Total Meatlove posted:Invincible That's 100% what that scene reminded me of. Given that we know there won't be any MCU film with a rating above a 12a I thought that scene was very well handled. It wouldn't have taken many different edits to make it a 15, and it still felt like a much more violent, brutal scene than the MCU has ever had before, even if it left most of the gore to your imagination. e: to me the first 30 minutes or so felt generic and dull as hell, but after that it was nothing but non-stop Raimi cheese. More so than any of the Spiderman movies anyway. stev fucked around with this message at 22:00 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 21:58
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It didn’t feel well handled for me because the death of Black Bolt was almost beat for beat the killing of the Deaf superhero in The Boys, and it just felt hack. I’m also really surprised the bbfc left it at a 12 for that part of that scene.
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May 7, 2022 22:07
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The REAL Goobusters posted:The fun raimi bits are fun but they’re only a small part of this movie. Like 90% of the movie felt very Raimi-y to me. The film harbors one of the best fights of the MCU too imo — Strange vs Strange musical note duel is good poo poo because lol at how silly it is.
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May 7, 2022 22:08
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PantsBandit posted:I understand the plotting critiques but tbh knowing Raimi was directing I went in just expecting a campy, pulpy good time and I got that in spades. Agreed. People always use "turn your brain off and r joy the ride" as a way to excuse lovely films like Transformers. But this is an actually good silly film. Yeah the character development was all over the show, but every marvel movie does that, and this one managed to be fun, instead of just a bunch of quips whilst we tread water for the next film.
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