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Total Meatlove posted:It really felt like a movie where you could see the seams, nothing quite clicked together neatly in the way that MCU films tend too. Even simple stuff like the memory lane sequence were noticeablely janky. It works better with Peggy and Maria because we know them (and theoretically like them) and understand how powerful they are. Professor X too, assuming everyone's seen at least one of the five other movies he's been in. But Bolt and Reed are such blatant fan service cameos, and do people even take Krasinski seriously as an actor?, that their deaths were weightless. Which the movie seems to understand based on how quickly and easily they get offed. Cruise Stark actually would've been better. live with fruit fucked around with this message at 22:33 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 22:26
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The best thing about the music fight is that the score plays a note in an off key and, since it is off key, it's off of the scales that they were using as a shield and appears behind the other Strange, so he could use it to cut the Darkhold off of the other Strange's belt. Just everything about it was so stupid, but so smart at the same time.
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May 7, 2022 22:27
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There are now at least five properties that deal with MCU alternate realities that don't have anything to do with each other. The events of Loki, Spider-Man, Wandavision, What If...?, and Dr Strange all deal with alternate realities, but for some reason it's a coincidence. There was a plausible inciting incident that The Ancient One suggests (alternate realities as a side effect of time travel and/or the destruction of the infinity stones) but Loki explicitly rejects that. The Loki in Loki is any arbitrary Loki that made a decision that was contrary to whatever he was meant to do (the Avengers were meant to time travel and Loki was meant to steal the Tesseract - but he just wasn't meant to go to Mongolia I guess). What makes his Loki unique is everything he does during the show. The circumstances of his creation are not special - there are countless alternate Lokis. Wandavision resolves the alternate reality as being created by Wanda out of grief, and What If...? starts from the premise that the alternate realities always existed. None of those shows had to do it that way - they could have all been related to Endgame.
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May 7, 2022 22:36
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I also thought this was a mess, some cool moments and visuals but overall it did nothing for me. I felt so detached from the whole thing. When the main characters have powers that can pretty much do whatever they want whenever they want in the service of the plot, it robs the action scenes of any urgency. And the more they flipped between different versions of the characters, the less I found myself incented to care about any of em, compounded by the fact that I went in not really giving a poo poo about Dr Strange or Dr whatshername McAdams. Movie confirmed for me that his/their storyline doesn't really resonate with me and never has. I seriously care more about Rocket than whether Stephen gets the girl or whatever. Unspectacular product and I think I'm burning out on MCU altogether. I think we've underestimated the importance of the core chemistry the Avengers ensemble had and what its loss means to the franchise. Now they have all these disparate storylines and heroes, all of whom are pretty tangentially related and now of whom are any kind of a slam-dunk the way RDJ/Evans/Johansson/etc had. I did like the Raimi poo poo and there were some really dope creative touches throughout, but this sits firmly in the bottom echelon of MCU films for me and only further ratchets down my expectations for the long-term outlook. I'll check out Thor but I look at the slate past that and it's just hard to get jazzed about this poo poo the way I did with the whole Infinity Saga. Those were more interesting characters, with more interesting stories, that even in the early going felt like they were somewhat pointed in the same direction. I don't get that vibe off any of the stuff since Endgame, streaming or otherwise, just feels like poo poo thrown at the screen. A lot of it is very watchable on its own terms, but I think I need to stop expecting that these will build into something more cohesive. Multiverse of Madness didn't deliver for me on its own or as part of something else, it was just messy and felt like something that had been through a couple directors. Also they should have found a way to trim 10-15 minutes off of it, that would have helped I think.
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May 7, 2022 22:54
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live with fruit posted:It works better with Peggy and Maria because we know them (and theoretically like them) and understand how powerful they are. Professor X too, assuming everyone's seen at least one of the five other movies he's been in. But Bolt and Reed are such blatant fan service cameos, and do people even take Krasinski seriously as an actor?, that their deaths were weightless. Which the movie seems to understand based on how quickly and easily they get offed. Bolt was fine IMO. We see how strong he is, they heavily imply he's their best shot against Scarlet Witch, and then he's unceremoniously killed in a surprising and distinctive way. Wanda gets put over strong. Bolt ends up a memorable part of the movie. Win-win.
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May 7, 2022 23:00
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Krasinski is kind of perfect as Reeds the more I think about it. I felt mildly annoyed at his presence the whole time which is pretty accurate.
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May 7, 2022 23:07
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Ravel posted:There are now at least five properties that deal with MCU alternate realities that don't have anything to do with each other. The events of Loki, Spider-Man, Wandavision, What If...?, and Dr Strange all deal with alternate realities, but for some reason it's a coincidence. There was a plausible inciting incident that The Ancient One suggests (alternate realities as a side effect of time travel and/or the destruction of the infinity stones) but Loki explicitly rejects that. In my eyes the end of Loki explicitly showed the creation of the multiverse, and that's that. The time cops were destroying any potential alternate realities for a while and Kang was keeping things in check. Then Loki did a Loki thing and we physically saw the timeline diverge into infinite possibities, and now we have a multiverse.
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May 7, 2022 23:11
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The Bee posted:Bolt was fine IMO. We see how strong he is, they heavily imply he's their best shot against Scarlet Witch, and then he's unceremoniously killed in a surprising and distinctive way. Wanda gets put over strong. Bolt ends up a memorable part of the movie. Win-win. I hated that scene. If she can just do totally unstoppable poo poo and decide bolt and fantastic are just dead now why all the loving around later with Peggy and Marvel or hobbling after the gang in the river tunnels.
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May 7, 2022 23:14
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live with fruit posted:do people even take Krasinski seriously as an actor? Beer gut guy in a laz-e-boy: "here's how I would do it if I were the quarterback"
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May 7, 2022 23:16
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Other than the pacing, I really liked the movie. I don't understand why a lot of people were underwhelmed by it. Also, the scene with Scarlet Witch massacring the Illuminati was intense. My theatre was going crazy.
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May 7, 2022 23:23
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live with fruit posted:It works better with Peggy and Maria because we know them (and theoretically like them) and understand how powerful they are. Professor X too, assuming everyone's seen at least one of the five other movies he's been in. But Bolt and Reed are such blatant fan service cameos, and do people even take Krasinski seriously as an actor?, that their deaths were weightless. Which the movie seems to understand based on how quickly and easily they get offed. Reed Richards has been in 3 movies in the last 20 years and a big part of the hype around Marvel regaining the FOX properties was that they'd finally do the Fantastic Four justice BRJurgis posted:The scarlet witch prophecy, repeated losses and trauma and guilt, and reading the cursed corrupted book clearly lay a path for Wanda to become what she was in this film. I felt the rapid reveal early in the movie was purposefully jarring and effectively instilled a sense of dread, it really landed for me. Strange going to a familiar "hero" for help and she is in fact the very threat he fears and many steps ahead of him. Wanda logic: keeping one town in perpetual stasis to be with my family is bad and I'm awful for trying it but loving around with the book of evil, destroying an alternate version of myself to take her place and also directly killing hundreds of people is a-ok!
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May 7, 2022 23:28
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I'm also sorta annoyed with Wong toward the end of the movie. "You have to take her power even if it will kill her, Strange! It is the only way!" is a bit of a scummy stance to take when your buddy earlier died to dust Wanda's first book and then you immediately caved for the sake of your beloved ox son when she wanted another, guy.
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May 7, 2022 23:34
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Caidin posted:I'm also sorta annoyed with Wong toward the end of the movie. "You have to take her power even if it will kill her, Strange! It is the only way!" is a bit of a scummy stance to take when your buddy earlier died to dust Wanda's first book and then you immediately caved for the sake of your beloved ox son when she wanted another, guy. ||He's really not a good head wizard. He straight up showed her the way to the hell temple with pretty much no resistance.||
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May 7, 2022 23:39
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Ravel posted:There are now at least five properties that deal with MCU alternate realities that don't have anything to do with each other. The events of Loki, Spider-Man, Wandavision, What If...?, and Dr Strange all deal with alternate realities, but for some reason it's a coincidence. There was a plausible inciting incident that The Ancient One suggests (alternate realities as a side effect of time travel and/or the destruction of the infinity stones) but Loki explicitly rejects that. Wandavision doesn't deal with an alternate reality in the multiverse; it's all Wanda altering the standard reality. And I don't think the Ancient One's explanation of the multiverse in Endgame is right. She explains it as a series of branches from a core, with each branch starting where a change was made to the timeline. But that's just a representation, and it's the only time we see that theory expounded. When we see someone actually manipulating the multiverse, it's a series of connected parallel universes that are all complete in their own right. So when something like the Tesseract being stolen causes a divergent universe, that universe doesn't just exist from the point where the divergence occurred - it always existed. Which means that if you start in 616 and steal the Tesseract yourself to create universe 617, then travel back in time to a point before when you stole it, you don't return to 616; you return to that point in 617. It will be indistinguishable from 616 because the changes you made don't alter the past, but it still won't be 616. The only way to return to 616 would be to travel to the exact point where you stole the Tesseract and either return it or stop yourself stealing it, as Steve does at the end of Endgame. Incidentally, this is also why America's power is so important to both alt-Strange and Wanda. America can break that rule by creating new connections between universes, even ones that would normally never touch.
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May 7, 2022 23:40
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Rarity posted:] As far as I was concerned wanda was so damaged and compromised by the end of wandavision that it was hard to have faith and trust she could be a real hero again. Remember she was always a damaged person and made flawed choices from the beginning, always seeking "family" and usually having them ripped away from her. She even started off as a reactionary (but relatable) villian, and i think Cap vision and maybe Hawkeye were the only ones who wanted to give her room to change or redeem herself. Her actions in wandavision showed how unstable and out of control she was, and that she eventually made the right choice under some duress IMO didn't absolve or redeem her so much as give her the chance to truly heal. Instead she fulfilled her prophesied corruption by the apparent anchor of hell's power on our plain. I don't know, I don't feel like I'm carrying a lot of water for the film. I personally never questioned their treatment of her and she was one of the best parts of the film. Maybe it's all the blizzard games I've played. (LOL @ remembering the end of D3 RoS, *word by word zoom on player character* "BUT. WILL. YOU. BE. CORRUPTED!?!?!?" Felt like it could be humorously self aware if not for the rest of the games plot) Edit: I saw it as infinite realities with infinite possibilities, manipulated by Kang into one continuous singularity from ~beyond time~ or whatever. That was the inherent existence of the MCU until loki, when suddenly the infinite realities realized their infinite variety through all eternity, all at once. That makes the endgame explanation jive with events in loki. It's eternally infinite comic book logic, but it seems uh metaphysically consistent. Until I am bodied by a more powerful nerd lol. [/spoiler] BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 00:00
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BRJurgis posted:
Except it completely negated the positive choice she made at the end of Wandavision and sent her character screaming back to step one as if nothing she had done since mattered. She sacrifices what she wants for the greater good and then turns round five minutes later and its 'lol nope I do want it after all'
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May 8, 2022 00:03
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Rarity posted:[spoiler]Except it completely negated the positive choice she made at the end of Wandavision and sent her character screaming back to step one as if nothing she had done since mattered. She sacrifices what she wants for the greater good and then turns round five minutes later and its 'lol nope I do want it after all' This is admitedly getting a little more heavy and serious than this movie needs so apologies, but have you known people troubled by addiction or psych issues? Backsliding from a progress is dissapointing and sad, but a good decision after a history of many bad ones certainly doesn't mean you won't make mistakes again. Wanda is sick and extremely powerful, alone with her grief and a book from hell she's destined to master... the odds were rather stacked against her. Also MCU definitely has a history of reversing character growth for the sake of plot, but this time it didn't seem off to me.[/spoiler]
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May 8, 2022 00:14
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Rarity posted:Except it completely negated the positive choice she made at the end of Wandavision and sent her character screaming back to step one as if nothing she had done since mattered. She sacrifices what she wants for the greater good and then turns round five minutes later and its 'lol nope I do want it after all' She got the evil book though. The end of Wandavision showed her with the evil book. It makes people evil.
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May 8, 2022 00:19
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Admiralty Flag posted:Did anyone see this in 3D? If so, were the effects translated well to 3D? It definitely seems like a movie that would be enhanced by a solid 3D experience. I saw it in 3D at the Cinemark 4DX big... screen.... thing (the closest theater to me), and honestly I was not impressed with the 3D. Maybe I'm just spoiled by Virtual Reality at this point, but most of the 3D effects felt sort of flat... kind of like a pop-up picture book. It also felt like the frame rate was off or something, and felt a little bit visually overwhelming in 3D because of all of the movement in the peripherals of the scenes. (I was sitting in the prime seat area for viewing a 3d movie.) It wasn't ALL bad. And a lot of the CGI 3D stuff was well done, but the general environments didn't really feel that great. From the credits, it said it was a 3D conversion, as well, so maybe that's why. The movie was highly entertaining, but I would have rather taken the 20 minute drive to see it in 2D IMAX instead (bc it was apparently shot in IMAX, which I did not know until the very end and the credits said so). Lifepuzzler fucked around with this message at 00:34 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 00:32
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Don't care what anyone else says, this movie was fun as hell and getting Sam Raimi to direct was 100% the correct call. I hope he's the one that does Dr. Strange movies going forward.
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May 8, 2022 00:54
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Mr. Funktastic posted:Don't care what anyone else says, this movie was fun as hell and getting Sam Raimi to direct was 100% the correct call. I hope he's the one that does Dr. Strange movies going forward. For real. Everyone who doesn’t love this movie doesn’t make sense to me. The first snap zoom Dutch angle in this movie made me so happy. Like a band playin their greatest hits
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May 8, 2022 01:14
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I really don't have any problems with Krasinski as an actor. He's fine in the role.
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May 8, 2022 01:17
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I love that my reading of Wanda vision was clearly how the writers saw it too, aka Wanda sucks. She’s a Karen of the marvel universe. Also love all the critics who fell over themselves about Wanda vision on Twitter are super grumpy about this. It was a great rami movie. It was fun.
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May 8, 2022 01:21
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Lifepuzzler posted:I saw it in 3D at the Cinemark 4DX big... screen.... thing (the closest theater to me), and honestly I was not impressed with the 3D. Maybe I'm just spoiled by Virtual Reality at this point, but most of the 3D effects felt sort of flat... kind of like a pop-up picture book. It also felt like the frame rate was off or something, and felt a little bit visually overwhelming in 3D because of all of the movement in the peripherals of the scenes. (I was sitting in the prime seat area for viewing a 3d movie.) I dont know the 3D looked really great in the action sequences, the first Dr. Strange had more visuals that felt better in 3D for sure though. Also Im pretty sure every Marvel movie(and most 3D films for the past 5 years) is a conversion, I dont think they have ever shot natively in 3D. It wouldn't really work with their production pipeline at all.
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May 8, 2022 02:02
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LionArcher posted:I love that my reading of Wanda vision was clearly how the writers saw it too, aka Wanda sucks. She’s a Karen of the marvel universe. I don’t think she’s a Karen. She never once lorded over wage slaves or those lesser than in all aspects of life. A Karen craves power. Wanda does not. Well not power to rule that is.
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May 8, 2022 02:11
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CelticPredator posted:I don’t think she’s a Karen. She never once lorded over wage slaves or those lesser than in all aspects of life. Wanda is selfish in a desperate injured way that is very tragic and human. But yeah I'd agree not your typical Karen which is usually more about privilege and status
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May 8, 2022 02:15
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Ravel posted:There are now at least five properties that deal with MCU alternate realities that don't have anything to do with each other. The events of Loki, Spider-Man, Wandavision, What If...?, and Dr Strange all deal with alternate realities, but for some reason it's a coincidence. There was a plausible inciting incident that The Ancient One suggests (alternate realities as a side effect of time travel and/or the destruction of the infinity stones) but Loki explicitly rejects that. So comic books then rivetz posted:
Again, just like the comics. I checked out of the MCU a while ago and agree with the people saying that when everything is in a different dimension with time travel thrown on top of it and we're all sitting around waiting for stingers and cameos to see where the the Xmen or the FF fits into it all, it's hard to generate any real sense of stakes or continuity. Some of it is fun to look at and what not but, for the most part, where they've taken these films is the same thing that got me to stop really reading the comics for the most part.
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May 8, 2022 02:17
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CelticPredator posted:I don’t think she’s a Karen. She never once lorded over wage slaves or those lesser than in all aspects of life. She craved enough power to get what she wanted and was willing to kill anyone who got in her way. That’s about as Karen energy as they come.
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May 8, 2022 02:47
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It's true. I used to work corporate events, and once this lady got mad that I wouldn't play baseball with her son while I was trying to set up for a relay race, so she rewrote reality itself while screaming at me, "MY HUSBAND IS A DEAD ROBOT."
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May 8, 2022 03:01
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BRJurgis posted:It's fine for you not to like the movie obv, but lol at this part. Even beyond the obvious child murder dunking, it's a superhero movie it needs the hero part. It even demonstrates that the main character (and others) resorts to that very action in every other reality. Like the whole arc is about not being a control freak and empowering Chavez to realize her potential and control her abilities. I do get the superhero movie part, which is why in my statement I specifically said "as more people get involved". I can understand Strange-616 being the selfless hero archetype, but the moment the Illuminati get their hands on Chavez (the same people that sacrificed their ally to whom they had an emotional attachment to because he was deemed too dangerous for the greater good) and decide to take their time having a democratic vote on what to do with this extremely dangerous multiversal threat while their entire HQ is getting blown the poo poo up and no one entertains the idea of offing her off is stretching the suspension of disbelief a bit too much. I'm not CinemaSin-ing the movie saying "lol why didn't they ride the eagles to Mount Doom and end the movie in 10 minutes", I'm saying that there was this very obvious opportunity for drama and conflict that the movie completely does nothing with making that whole segment feel pointless. What would the movie lose if you remove the whole Illuminati segment? Dr Strange's character is not challenged, Chavez is a prop all through it, and it's not used to develop her bond with Strange outside of the unintentionally hilarious Memory Lane segment. And the comparison with Steve doesn't work because a) Steve has always been the hero archetype, whereas 2 movies ago Dr. Strange explicitly told Tony that he would sacrifice him and Peter without a second thought since his duty towards the universe is more important (this could have actually been a character point that the movie could have worked towards) and b) Steve actually had an emotional attachment to Vision, whereas Strange just met Chavez.
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May 8, 2022 03:09
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For folks who were upset about Wanda cracking, the movie did feature a stable Wanda mom (who even had the moves to get back to her children with determination after being stranded in the vishanti holding zone underneath the illuminati complex wherein she had seemingly just murdered the most powerful people on Earth). There is a world where Wanda is good and fulfilled, can't you be happy with that? (My attempt at a quote from the movie I can't remember verbatim) lezard_valeth posted:I do get the superhero movie part, which is why in my statement I specifically said "as more people get involved". I can understand Strange-616 being the selfless hero archetype, but the moment [spoiler]the Illuminati get their hands on Chavez (the same people that sacrificed their ally to whom they had an emotional attachment to because he was deemed too dangerous for the greater good) and decide to take their time having a democratic vote on what to do with this extremely dangerous multiversal threat while their entire HQ is getting blown the poo poo up and no one entertains the idea of offing her off is stretching the suspension of disbelief a bit too much. I'm not CinemaSin-ing the movie saying "lol why didn't they ride the eagles to Mount Doom and end the movie in 10 minutes", I'm saying that there was this very obvious opportunity for drama and conflict that the movie completely does nothing with making that whole segment feel pointless. What would the movie lose if you remove the whole Illuminati segment? Dr Strange's character is not challenged, Chavez is a prop all through it, and it's not used to develop her bond with Strange outside of the unintentionally hilarious Memory Lane segment. I don't really disagree with this. Though I think it's worth noting that in their hubris they were more intent on judging strange and seemed to completely disregard scarlet witch as a threat, and I'm not sure what they knew of chavez but I certainly got the impression strange and chavez were both going to get blackbolted if not for xavier's intervention/wanda's attack. [/spoiler] BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 03:17 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 03:09
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live with fruit posted:I think a different villain with less baggage would've made a big difference. As is, it's a very hard left from Wandavision, where we were supposed to sympathize with Wanda, to her killing everybody. Wanda joined the avengers after her terrorist organization lost to them, this was always who she is. The kid gloves about what she's done is the real problem, i couldn't help but laugh when she was shocked during civil war, like she doesn't have a ton of blood on her hands already. I really need Disney/marvel to get that a sympathetic villain doesn't mean remorseful, it has been ruining movies since Spiderman 2. Wanda is a chaotic neutral arch villain in the comics, in the mcu she's a stepping stone for strange. She should've been able to win and be the next threat, but now she's gonna come back as a good girl. Ruining all my favorites for synergy.
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May 8, 2022 03:29
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Wonder what is going to happen to Agatha? Does she keep on being trapped as that personality for the rest of her life, because Wanda can't release her, or does she immediately "wake up" because Wanda can't keep the spell going?
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May 8, 2022 03:37
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Guys can't you see. They're cluster loving the entire MCU so they can reboot the entire loving thing from scratch
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May 8, 2022 03:42
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codo27 posted:Guys can't you see. They're cluster loving the entire MCU so they can reboot the entire loving thing from scratch Yah. Everything Dies -> Secret War -> Reboot/Recast
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May 8, 2022 03:49
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codo27 posted:Guys can't you see. They're cluster loving the entire MCU so they can reboot the entire loving thing from scratch
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May 8, 2022 04:08
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Who is even left in Hollywood to recast with?
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May 8, 2022 04:12
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Secret wars with xmen, captain Carter, all of the infighting twists and betrayals, and somehow a worthy doom. I can't be the only one who'd see it just hoping for what it could be... but it's a ways away. Beyonder? Ehhhh.... Though I'd accept a galactus if they did him justice. It's a whole lot of poo poo to set up but they've got enough pieces in place. Return of Andy Serkis somehow? Honestly anybody can "come back" with multiverse poo poo going on. I'm a sucker for this stuff and Disney is a big evil company but I think it's crazy to write off the MCU with what they've done and what's available to them. I still demand comics infinity war preceded by warlock/magus/church of intergalactic truth arc. What if? already showed a Thanos diverted from galactic homicide. Also to continue my insanity It's windy out and there's street noise, and I was so engrossed in posting this on my phone that a fully grown black bear walked literally right up to my feet just now. I could have touched it. I did a double take when I heard shuffing and snuffling, and luckily my "Holy poo poo!" set him moving even faster than I could. Yeah.... holy poo poo. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 04:36 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 04:25
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stev posted:||He's really not a good head wizard. He straight up showed her the way to the hell temple with pretty much no resistance.|| I feel like they have to do something with him to explain just wtf. He was running some kind of hustle with a fighting tournament in Asia (Shang Chi), then last seen telling Strange "you do you, whatever lol" and peacing out (NWH), and he's just straight up bad at his job in this movie.
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May 8, 2022 04:33
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Speaking of, why doesn't Wong have the cape? Capeless Strange then the cape gets in this would have worked so much better.
bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 04:38 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 04:36
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