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If you had baby in ancient Rome and if you couldn't afford a wet nurse you could go to the Columna Lactaria (the Milk Column) and rent one instead.
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May 7, 2022 11:39
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Dairy holes
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May 7, 2022 11:44
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Alhazred posted:If you had baby in ancient Rome and if you couldn't afford a wet nurse you could go to the Columna Lactaria (the Milk Column) and rent one instead. Dølgsmål is even cheaper
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May 7, 2022 16:14
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the original "born on a mountain, raised in a cave, fuckin n truckin is all i crave" was in the epic of gilgamesh
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May 8, 2022 21:32
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spoilers!
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May 8, 2022 21:40
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InediblePenguin posted:the original "born on a mountain, raised in a cave, fuckin n truckin is all i crave" was in the epic of gilgamesh Another fun fact, isn't the epic of gilgamesh about gay love? I think I remember that from some YouTube person who sang it
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May 8, 2022 22:35
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Not really. You can see the relationship between Enkidu and Gilgamesh as romantic, but Enkidu also starts off as a crazy feral person until he gets hosed into being civilized by a sacred prostitute.
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May 8, 2022 22:44
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Gaius Marius posted:Not really. You can see the relationship between Enkidu and Gilgamesh as romantic, but Enkidu also starts off as a crazy feral person until he gets hosed into being civilized by a sacred prostitute. Same
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May 9, 2022 00:32
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No trucking is mentioned in the quoted text.
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May 9, 2022 00:33
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Ancient cultures had different ideas about gender, sexuality, and love than modern ones do. So if you apply the modern question of whether a given story is about gay love to an ancient work, produced in a culture whose understanding of concepts like "gay," "love," and "stories being about things" are not necessarily analogous to those implicit in the question, it's difficult to get a meaningful answer. Gotta be more specific about what you're trying to find out.
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May 9, 2022 01:18
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drrockso20 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEigGPmYJuo followup to this video showing the early days of Paleontology and Paleo-Art, this time from the American perspective; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX0fZgPfB9s
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May 9, 2022 01:33
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gleebster posted:No trucking is mentioned in the quoted text. the truckin part is a later misinterpretation of the name Utu
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May 9, 2022 02:08
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Bongo Bill posted:Ancient cultures had different ideas about gender, sexuality, and love than modern ones do. So if you apply the modern question of whether a given story is about gay love to an ancient work, produced in a culture whose understanding of concepts like "gay," "love," and "stories being about things" are not necessarily analogous to those implicit in the question, it's difficult to get a meaningful answer. Gotta be more specific about what you're trying to find out. "Is Enkidu bisexual?" has the same level of potential for concrete answers as "Is Batman bisexual?", except if every single writer, official or fanfiction, was equally canon. All this to say: Yes, the Epic of Gilgamesh is about a gay hero and his bisexual lover... if you want it to be.
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May 9, 2022 04:06
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girl dick energy posted:This is true, but missing the real point of why it's a complicated question: There is no one specific canon for mythology. That's the whole point. It's an ever-evolving tapestry both in content and in context, that changes based on region and time period, and any 'canonical' records we have about what those stories were and what they mean were just the versions that got written down and happened to be preserved over time (and not lost or destroyed in the literal millennia since). Not really? There are things that discarded from consideration. There's a reason people don't point to Disney's Hercules as a member of the canon for Greek myths
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May 9, 2022 04:21
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thetoughestbean posted:Not really? There are things that discarded from consideration. There's a reason people don't point to Disney's Hercules as a member of the canon for Greek myths Yet.
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May 9, 2022 04:31
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girl dick energy posted:This is true, but missing the real point of why it's a complicated question: There is no one specific canon for mythology. That's the whole point. It's an ever-evolving tapestry both in content and in context, that changes based on region and time period, and any 'canonical' records we have about what those stories were and what they mean were just the versions that got written down and happened to be preserved over time (and not lost or destroyed in the literal millennia since). I admit I had assumed that the question was being asked about a specific text rather than an oral tradition, too.
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May 9, 2022 04:36
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I know that’s a joke, but really, what separates Disney packaging and sanitizing and reselling mythology hundreds of years later to fit their own needs, from, say, the Romans? Is it the motive? Because lmao if you think a reinterpretation has never been pushed because of mass appeal or political agenda or moral purity or Christianization before.
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May 9, 2022 04:53
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Mortal hubris is the only thing.
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May 9, 2022 05:00
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Don’t take me too seriously. I’m just playing Hades’ advocate.
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May 9, 2022 05:06
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Dammit, that joke would’ve worked better if I’d tried to argue about if Zagreus is canon.
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May 9, 2022 05:13
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girl dick energy posted:Dammit, that joke would’ve worked better if I’d tried to argue about if Zagreus is canon. Funny thing is that he IS an actual deity of Greek mythology about whom we know very little, though apparently he was 'the highest of all gods'. In some versions he's basically an alter ego of Dionysis.
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May 9, 2022 06:19
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*inhales deeply* I wouldn't bet on that
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May 9, 2022 08:19
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Ah, you mean the god that got highest.
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May 9, 2022 09:42
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Bongo Bill posted:Ah, you mean the god that got highest. He DOES go from the depths of the underworld to the surface, that's quite a height.
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May 9, 2022 10:56
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girl dick energy posted:I know that’s a joke, but really, what separates Disney packaging and sanitizing and reselling mythology hundreds of years later to fit their own needs, from, say, the Romans? Is it the motive? Because lmao if you think a reinterpretation has never been pushed because of mass appeal or political agenda or moral purity or Christianization before. Reinterpretations happen all the time! That said, not every reinterpretation finds success. If you asked the average fan of Greek mythology what Heracles's relationship was with Hera, nine out of ten are going to say "not great!", even with the depiction of Hera as a loving mother in Disney's Hercules. There is no official canon for mythologies, yes, they aren't a published universe like Marvel, but not every depiction takes hold and not every story needs to be taken with the same amount of seriousness. I get the impulse to go "oh its just all vibes, all takes are as valid as each other" but you're going to get some serious pushback if you try to launder certain retellings as just as important to the common understanding of the mythology as say, the Iliad
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May 9, 2022 11:55
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A lot of the inaccuracies in Disney's Hercules make more sense when you realize it's really just them doing a Superman movie with a Greek Mythology coat of paint
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May 9, 2022 11:56
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drrockso20 posted:A lot of the inaccuracies in DC's Superman make more sense when you realize it's really just them doing a Heracles movie with a Jewish Diaspora coat of paint
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May 9, 2022 12:17
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thetoughestbean posted:Reinterpretations happen all the time! That said, not every reinterpretation finds success. If you asked the average fan of Greek mythology what Heracles's relationship was with Hera, nine out of ten are going to say "not great!", even with the depiction of Hera as a loving mother in Disney's Hercules. Yeah, we kind of tend to think as various myths as essentially fixed and handed down through the generations unchanged, but in reality there's a huge amount of changes and flux happening over time. It's actually quite fascinating to check out how certain myths change over time on the back of historical authors writing what we might today call fanfiction. The Arthurian myth is a fun example, you can see major aspects changing over time as the story passes through authors who change things around to fit their own tastes and social mores. The parentage of certain characters gets switched around, relationships are changed from horny adultery to morality tale, some added in their own Original Character Do Not Steal who is best bros with Arthur and actually better than all the other guys.
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May 9, 2022 12:40
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but isn’t it incredibly reductive to describe Disney commercializing Greek myth as just another reinterpretation? In contemporary society, Hercules is just another story, just another fairytale, but for the Greeks and Romans Hercules was part of a defined and internalized cosmogony. I’d say there is a very clear and important distinction between Hercules (or any other mythological figure or narrative) as something profane and ‘meaningless’ and the function of mythology as something sacred.
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May 9, 2022 13:36
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Greek, Roman, etc. Mythology is more about correct practices rather than correct beliefs (sometimes referred to as "Orthoprax" and "Orthodox"), and it's something that's pretty common in oral cultures. If you participate in the shared cultural practices of your fellow believers and are in good standing within the community, that matters a lot more than who Hercules "really" is. Tacitus observed early Thor worship among Germanic peoples and saw a mighty brawler god and translated it to Hercules, because it doesn't matter about the name and the lore so much as people are properly appeasing him in the way he likes. Which is the real problem with knowing these mythologies—the things that have most prominently survived to the present day, which is mostly philosophical speculation and Epic Poems, aren't really the core religious practices of the priesthood. You can say whatever you want about the nature of the gods and cast them as characters in stories, but the important thing is knowing how to avoid offending them and the proper courtesies in asking things of them. Which is basically how you'd treat a foreign king who's made your community his subjects, so it makes sense. It doesn't matter what you think of his nature, personality, and history—or even, really, what you call him, a king, a Caesar, a shah—so much as making sure the taxes are paid and you don't do anything that makes him think you're trying to rebel. So Disney would not be part of the "canon" of Hercules, because they're not participating in the Hercules cult in any way. They could make the most accurate to known historical tradition retelling of the story, and it still would not be part of the mythology, because it's not about "correctness," it's about community.
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May 9, 2022 15:35
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Precambrian posted:Greek, Roman, etc. Mythology is more about correct practices rather than correct beliefs (sometimes referred to as "Orthoprax" and "Orthodox"), and it's something that's pretty common in oral cultures. If you participate in the shared cultural practices of your fellow believers and are in good standing within the community, that matters a lot more than who Hercules "really" is. Tacitus observed early Thor worship among Germanic peoples and saw a mighty brawler god and translated it to Hercules, because it doesn't matter about the name and the lore so much as people are properly appeasing him in the way he likes. Which is the real problem with knowing these mythologies—the things that have most prominently survived to the present day, which is mostly philosophical speculation and Epic Poems, aren't really the core religious practices of the priesthood. You can say whatever you want about the nature of the gods and cast them as characters in stories, but the important thing is knowing how to avoid offending them and the proper courtesies in asking things of them. Which is basically how you'd treat a foreign king who's made your community his subjects, so it makes sense. It doesn't matter what you think of his nature, personality, and history—or even, really, what you call him, a king, a Caesar, a shah—so much as making sure the taxes are paid and you don't do anything that makes him think you're trying to rebel. Hercules seems really prone to that sort of thing. I've read about hercules and herculean imagery being syncretized with early hinduism in western india due to contact with the greco-bactrians. They guy got around.
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May 9, 2022 16:15
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It goes even farther than that. The Nio statues outside Buddhist temples in Japan and China are derived from Hercules statuary. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nio
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May 9, 2022 17:05
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Gaius Marius posted:It goes even farther than that. The Nio statues outside Buddhist temples in Japan and China are derived from Hercules statuary. Cultural exchange between West and East was a lot more active than people usually think. There are people suggesting that the Greek word "therapeutai" (from which "therapy" ofc derived from) might have been adopted by philosopher Philo of Alexandria to describe Theravadan Buddhist monks ("Theraputta") who possibly were living and studying in Alexandria around 100 BCE - 50 CE. There was also a whole Hellenistic Greco-Buddhist culture in Central Asia around the time that was a result of strong trade links between the Roman and the Hellenic world, India, and even China and Japan. It's all super interesting stuff!
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May 9, 2022 18:36
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barbecue at the folks posted:Cultural exchange between West and East was a lot more active than people usually think. There are people suggesting that the Greek word "therapeutai" (from which "therapy" ofc derived from) might have been adopted by philosopher Philo of Alexandria to describe Theravadan Buddhist monks ("Theraputta") who possibly were living and studying in Alexandria around 100 BCE - 50 CE. There was also a whole Hellenistic Greco-Buddhist culture in Central Asia around the time that was a result of strong trade links between the Roman and the Hellenic world, India, and even China and Japan. It's all super interesting stuff! One of the more well known examples of this is the depictions of Buddha. The first sculptures of Buddha in the East are heavily influenced by the greeks.
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May 9, 2022 18:46
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oscarthewilde posted:but isn’t it incredibly reductive to describe Disney commercializing Greek myth as just another reinterpretation? Yes, it is.
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May 9, 2022 22:02
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But ancient Greek and late roman republican societies were so profoundly different that comparing the religious standards of one with the other is absolutely impossible. They were insanely different societies.
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May 9, 2022 22:10
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I don’t why you would focus on Disney they aren’t the first to sell a story about Hercules. That’s been a thing since you could monetize stories
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May 9, 2022 22:20
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honey you mean hunkules
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May 9, 2022 22:31
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oscarthewilde posted:but isn’t it incredibly reductive to describe Disney commercializing Greek myth as just another reinterpretation? In contemporary society, Hercules is just another story, just another fairytale, but for the Greeks and Romans Hercules was part of a defined and internalized cosmogony. I’d say there is a very clear and important distinction between Hercules (or any other mythological figure or narrative) as something profane and ‘meaningless’ and the function of mythology as something sacred. I think there’s two ways to discuss it: there’s “what did people in this specific time believe and what supported those beliefs” and there’s “what is the common understanding of the mythology today and what are the works that lead to that understanding” If you’re discussing the first, obviously you aren’t going to talk about modern works, but if you’re talking about the second, works like Disney’s Hercules or Percy Jackson or Lore Olympus are worth at least discussing
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May 10, 2022 00:43
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Lore Olympus is probably a good one to bring up since it's about the myth of Persephone, and it's been in and out of fashion at various points in history whether the myth describes a loving relationship or an abduction and rape. It's had a fair few adaptations these last few years (Supergiant's Hades obviously being another notable one) and the consentual version is definitely the one that's in at the moment. What's interesting is that between Persephone and Hades, it's Persephone that appears to be the older god. Most related religions in the earlier days of the Greek pantheon had a queen ruling the Underworld, and it looks very much like Hades was thought up to give her a husband. Which may go some way to explain why of all the gods he seems to be the most loyal to his marriage - it's literally his whole reason for existing.
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May 10, 2022 00:50
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