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16-bit Butt-Head posted:they should make everything canon imo That’s just tastelessness. While it’s important to include Event Horizon, you gotta draw a line and reject Alien: Resurrection.
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May 10, 2022 22:28
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MrMojok posted:The AVP movies are on sale on Amazon in a two-disc set for like four bucks, and it was too good to pass up. I highly doubt Requiem is contrast corrected, to my knowledge none of the home releases have been. Maybe when we get a 4K version (lmao)
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May 10, 2022 23:51
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That’s just tastelessness. While it’s important to include Event Horizon, you gotta draw a line and reject Alien: Resurrection. they can make alien resurrection canon as long as they also make the pepsi commercial canon
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May 11, 2022 00:49
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:they can make alien resurrection canon as long as they also make the pepsi commercial canon It already is Edit— I just unironically asked the author of the Alien RPG if he snuck in a reference to the Pepsi commercial (or plans to if he hasn’t yet). I will report back. Edit again— he says he has no plans to include it in the RPG, I suggested he include it as a gag in the Feline Survival Guide April fools gag. He did confirm that the goofy bug-eyes Ron Cobb original design for the Alien is going to make a cameo in the RPG though. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 02:34 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 01:04
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That’s just tastelessness. While it’s important to include Event Horizon, you gotta draw a line and reject Alien: Resurrection. Alien Resurrection is underrated.
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May 11, 2022 05:57
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Xenomrph posted:LV-426 got chosen through sheer bad luck, otherwise they surely would have acted on it sooner instead of waiting 57 years for Ripley to show up. LV-426 getting chosen out of sheer luck makes me think of this post Splicer posted:This kind of thing just makes the universe feel so small. It feels really goofy that it was just randomly chosen and is the setting, yet again, for Aliens. I mean, it works for the film/story and the planet looks so different on the surface anyway. It's just totally goofy that the exact same planet gets colonized and stumbles upon the Aliens again the exact perfect time for Ripley to deal with them again 57 years later, exactly when she gets woken up. Also, the beacon from the Derelict was turned off in A:I, but was there a reason it wasn't transmitting in Aliens prior to A:I? Does any comic or novel touch on it?
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May 11, 2022 07:16
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sigher posted:It's just totally goofy that the exact same planet gets colonized and stumbles upon the Aliens again the exact perfect time for Ripley to deal with them again 57 years later, exactly when she gets woken up. In fairness to Aliens, that's not a coincidence. Burke sent them to the aliens based on Ripley's testimony. However, it is goofy that nobody noticed a crashed spaceship within driving distance after twenty years of surveying. [It's also kinda goofy that the issue of the crashed spaceship full of eggs is 'resolved' by the faint implication that it'll be left for the government to clean up. (Major security situation, administration steps in, etc..)] quote:Also, the beacon from the Derelict was turned off in A:I, but was there a reason it wasn't transmitting in Aliens prior to A:I? Does any comic or novel touch on it? On this note, Alien: Isolation is narratively rather dumb.
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May 11, 2022 08:06
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It's rather goofy that at no point during any of the poo poo going down where waves of colonists are getting captured/facehugged, trying to perform operations to remove facehuggers, writing reports on failing to remove facehuggers, making barricades, ect, do they ever consider radioing back home for help.
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May 11, 2022 08:29
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I forget, how was the transmitter damaged?
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May 11, 2022 10:06
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Splicer posted:I forget, how was the transmitter damaged? Hudson posted:It was on the APC. It's wasted. From memory, don't they comment that all the antennas are intact while they're flying in? "Structure looks intact". So whatever happened happened fast. In the novelisation there's a throwaway line about maybe they all found religion and a vow of silence. Question for the timeline nerds - I can buy the lack of preparation and the colony being overwhelmed suddenly. Newt's dad erupts, they have the Alien situation (thinking it's a big animal they're dealing with). It takes a handful of people, gets them all chest-bursted and an isolated colony gets overwhelmed when 10 or so xenos come rocking in and take the rest of the colony as incubators. But does that first xeno take them to the jockey ship? Does it find the atmosphere processor, think "this is a great spot", run to the jockey ship a few times carrying eggs under it's arms? Or did it do the hormone storm thing to become a queen and lay a new batch of eggs in the processor? I know the lore didn't exist then so Cameron was envisioning a queen as a new concept, but did he decide that the queen was the one that burst out of Newt's dad (like Alien 3)? The gap for me has always been going from 1 xeno to lots of xenos. Unless that first one went to the atmosphere station, made a bunch of eggs itself and then the people looking for it got facehugged?
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May 11, 2022 12:07
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Xenomrph posted:It already is he should make the pepsi the drink of choice for xenomorphs everywhere
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May 11, 2022 12:11
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Dog_Meat posted:From memory, don't they comment that all the antennas are intact while they're flying in? "Structure looks intact". So whatever happened happened fast. In the novelisation there's a throwaway line about maybe they all found religion and a vow of silence.
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May 11, 2022 14:35
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sigher posted:LV-426 getting chosen out of sheer luck makes me think of this post In the ‘Alien’ script/novelization/comic adaptation (can’t recall which), Dallas shuts off the beacon after they find the Space Jockey. In the ‘Aliens’ script/novelization (can’t recall which, but it’s definitely in Cameron’s notes), the beacon was damaged by seismic activity between Alien and Aliens and that’s what shut off the beacon. In the director’s cut the Derelict is visibly damaged when the Jordens come across it. Splicer posted:I forget, how was the transmitter damaged? Dog_Meat posted:From memory, don't they comment that all the antennas are intact while they're flying in? "Structure looks intact". So whatever happened happened fast. In the novelisation there's a throwaway line about maybe they all found religion and a vow of silence. Edit— this is the prequel novel: Alien - River of Pain (Book 3) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1781162727/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_61SX41VX56ZR9RP2GH4G Ignore the “book 3” thing, it’s a standalone book. There’s also a cool Audible audio drama version with a cast of voice actors and sound effects and music and stuff, it’s very cool. Speaking of audio dramas, the audio drama version of William Gibson’s ‘Alien3’ script is also really cool, and pairs well with its comic book adaptation. William Gibson's Alien 3 https://www.amazon.com/dp/1506708110/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_548BN574G5VYE797EBYQ There’s also apparently a novelization of it too, but I haven’t read it. Alien 3: The Unproduced Screenplay by William Gibson https://www.amazon.com/dp/1789097525/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_XZFNPB0JVNAD1BFEXHPH Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 15:31 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 15:23
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Splicer posted:I meant why does Bishop need to crawl to the colony transmitter instead of them just using a nearby terminal? I'm relying on memory (I used to be able to obsessively quote the film) but I think it just comes down to plot requirements. The dropship rolled into the APC but I don't remember anything in the colony going up in the explosion. So the terminals were either damaged in the small arms resistance, the power went out when the station vented or the xenos have chewed up all the cables looking to cut the power. Hudson says the terminal was on the APC, it's wasted Ripley says we patch in from here Bishop says some techy version of "I already checked, the hardware is down between here and there" Ripley says someone will have to go out there with a portable transmitter Hudson nopes out with the greatest "gently caress that" in cinema history
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May 11, 2022 15:27
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Dog_Meat posted:Hudson nopes out with the greatest "gently caress that" in cinema history I made this as a reaction image over a decade ago but I don’t think I ever used it 
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May 11, 2022 15:36
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david_a posted:I made this as a reaction image over a decade ago but I don’t think I ever used it  I remember being used to movies where the heroes would be fighting over why they should be the one to go and thinking "hey, that's exactly what I'd be saying right now. Send the machine!" Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 15:51 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 15:48
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Robots have feelings too < >
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May 11, 2022 16:38
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bishop was the only one qualified because he took the training course and the others didnt
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May 11, 2022 16:42
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Lance Henriksen is such a method actor that he actually demanded that the Queen Alien puppet tear his real body in half, and took medication for months ahead of time to turn his actual blood white. He accomplished the scene on the first take. He really is a consummate professional. 
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May 11, 2022 16:52
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Dog_Meat posted:I'm relying on memory (I used to be able to obsessively quote the film) but I think it just comes down to plot requirements. The dropship rolled into the APC but I don't remember anything in the colony going up in the explosion. So the terminals were either damaged in the small arms resistance, the power went out when the station vented or the xenos have chewed up all the cables looking to cut the power.
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May 11, 2022 16:52
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As soon as someone calls and says check out this UFO and 24 hours later an alien pops out a motherfucker I'm prob sending at least a strongly worded email back.
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May 11, 2022 16:58
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Splicer posted:I was wondering if it was more specific. If it had been down for a while then it's possible by the time the colonists went "We should radio this in" they couldn't any more. One thing I just remembered (from the extended edition). When the Captain of Red Dwarf (sorry, he'll always be Capt Hollister to me) is talking to someone about the company sending coordinates for the salvagers to check out he says "they don't say why, and I don't ask. I don't ask because it takes two weeks to get an answer out here, and the answer is always "Don't ask." So I guess 2 weeks is a long time for a message to get anywhere. Still, you'd think there'd be a delayed message saying "holy gently caress, help!"
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May 11, 2022 17:04
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You can handwave communication with "Burke." Burke sent them there pretty secretly because he wanted the largest profit from whatever they found, they may have communicated back what happened, he B.S.ed them with sending help/whatever enough to keep them placated while he figured out next steps (communicating to the company they lost contact after erasing all their messages, etc.).
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May 11, 2022 17:31
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Xenomrph posted:The colony gets overrun right when Ripley wakes up because after she woke up she gave the coordinates to Burke who then told the colonists to check out the Derelict, dooming them all. I mean it seems really unlikely that LV-426 gets picked for colonization because Alien establishes that it's basically in the middle of nowhere. I guess since it's near a, presumably, major shipping lane it makes sense I'll have to check that scene out again in Aliens, what part of the Derelict is damaged? I don't remember seeing any sort of damage but I guess I never paid attention.
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May 11, 2022 17:40
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sigher posted:I mean it seems really unlikely that LV-426 gets picked for colonization because Alien establishes that it's basically in the middle of nowhere. I guess since it's near a, presumably, major shipping lane it makes sense It’s the right side “arm” as you’re facing the Derelict, it’s snapped downward. lovely quality, but you can see it at 3:06 in this clip: https://youtu.be/iusPorC4wZE  Here’s Cameron’s storyboard sketch:  Also today is my Burst Day!
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May 11, 2022 18:13
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Splicer posted:I was wondering if it was more specific. If it had been down for a while then it's possible by the time the colonists went "We should radio this in" they couldn't any more. Yeah they don't really get more specific than that. Seeing it again it works fine to me though - They bring up all the reasonable stuff and note how the APC is trashed and the gunship is of course totaled so they can't salvage anything from those to do it. Ripley immediately calls out how there must still be some remote way to do it but just staying outside isn't an option because "they mostly come out at night, mostly" So Bishop takes the long way through the skinny vent. As far as "we have all this high tech stuff but, uh, the movie has to go for another 60 minutes sooo..." moments go I think this is honestly one of the most well done ones, it feels totally organic and logical as it plays out. Which is amazing because it also conveniently takes Bishop out of the picture for awhile while also very subtly having him move around the place the same way the aliens do and if you saw Alien and are watching Aliens for the first time that's a good way to low key plant the seed of Bishop possibly having some other agenda too like Ash did. So like right before the meltdown when Ripley thinks Bishop ditched them I really did think that for a second when I saw it for the first time. The movie does a good job having Bishop be kind of in the background and technically on task doing something but not really on screen a lot. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 18:35 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 18:27
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Neo Rasa posted:Yeah they don't really get more specific than that. Seeing it again it works fine to me though - They bring up all the reasonable stuff and note how the APC is trashed and the gunship is of course totaled so they can't salvage anything from those to do it. Ripley immediately calls out how there must still be some remote way to do it but just staying outside isn't an option because "they mostly come out at night, mostly" So Bishop takes the long way through the skinny vent. Not really; unlike in Alien, the marines are explicitly within communication-range with the outside world. It’s absolutely wild that they aren’t sending continual updates back to whatever nearest base - even (or especially) if a message takes a week or something to arrive. Like, let’s say there’s a mechanical failure in the dropship on the way down, and they’re forced to land some distance from the planet’s only colony. If they lose the transmitter and/or Bishop in the crash, then they all die of thirst despite having a backup shuttle only minutes away. Hudson’s shock and exasperation upon hearing that someone might eventually check up on them in 17 days is a fun moment, until you realize that seemingly no-one has realized that they are, like, in space. They didn’t take that into account at all when planning the op.
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May 12, 2022 00:00
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david_a posted:I made this as a reaction image over a decade ago but I don’t think I ever used it The exchange is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYi4qGxixTw&t=156s
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May 12, 2022 04:58
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I always assumed the colony did probably message back about "Holy gently caress, some parasite burst out of a dude!" but the messages are going straight to Burke. Burke was basically hoping for Ripley's story to be true, so for him that's all good and he sends back "Sure, help is on the way." I have not read any novelisations, but I imagine that mostly unarmed colonists get wiped out pretty quickly from that point onwards. Ripley's crew didn't last a day against a single one of them. I figure even a handful of the critters working together can make short work of the colony especially if a good number of them are kids anyway. They also are probably encouraged by Burke's message to just hold on tight instead of trying to actively exterminate the monsters, which might have worked in the early stages. I figured that Newt's Dad bursted out the one that became the Queen. It escaped just like Ash's baby did, and then probably nabbed a few people and slimed them up in the atmo processor and then grew her egg sac. My theory was that any solitary creature might evolve into a queen, but I guess Alien 3 has Ripley know that the one inside her is a Queen already.
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May 12, 2022 05:53
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like, let’s say there’s a mechanical failure in the dropship on the way down, and they’re forced to land some distance from the planet’s only colony. If they lose the transmitter and/or Bishop in the crash, then they all die of thirst despite having a backup shuttle only minutes away. It's also a little strange that there's literally no one on the Sulaco communicating with the ground team to send in the 2nd drop ship if need be(also, why the hell do they even have a 2nd when the whole team fits on one? I guess they'd run smaller teams or something but it seems like one hell of a military investment of equipment with almost no hands on deck). I get that the Sulaco is autonomous enough to keep itself in orbit, but I'd think that they'd have another Is there ever an explanation in the expanded canon as to how the Queen came to be? We get the infestation happened with Newt's father right? So did that Xeno start kidnapping people and hauling them to the Derelict? Did it go back to the Derelict, somehow, and haul eggs back? The Queen is in the atmosphere processor laying eggs, that's her hive, but how'd she get there? Or was the first Xeno the Queen that retreated and set up shop?
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May 12, 2022 06:17
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You could just kludge the two methods of egg production together and assume that one Alien can turn people into eggs, but that one of those will become a queen which is a more efficient way of producing a lot of eggs. Weirder things happen in nature.
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May 12, 2022 06:22
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PeterCat posted:You could just kludge the two methods of egg production together and assume that one Alien can turn people into eggs, but that one of those will become a queen which is a more efficient way of producing a lot of eggs. If you combine the outtake from the original (Dallas and Brett being turned into gloopy eggs) you could say that a lone drone could create a queen from a host. But then Ripley was implanted with a queen in Alien 3 so... I know one of the novels off-handedly mentioned a "hormone storm" which implied that a drone can become a queen, but that was probably extended universe bollocks. Then again, like you say - nature is weird and this is nature IN SPAAAAACE.
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May 12, 2022 08:00
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sigher posted:It's also a little strange that there's literally no one on the Sulaco communicating with the ground team to send in the 2nd drop ship if need be(also, why the hell do they even have a 2nd when the whole team fits on one? I guess they'd run smaller teams or something but it seems like one hell of a military investment of equipment with almost no hands on deck). I get that the Sulaco is autonomous enough to keep itself in orbit, but I'd think that they'd have another The RPG deals with stuff like this by saying the Colonial Marines in general are stretched very thin - there's a lot of unrest, worker riots to put down, competing mega corporations/empires' encroaching on territory to deal with. Humanity in general has stagnated and is in decline because of greedy assholes having no end to their greed so there's a lot of situations like the Sulaco or the station in Alien Isolation where you have these massive achievements of humanity with a threadbare skeleton crew that gives no fucks. They had a pretty good train of alien logic for how the queen comes to be too. An alien bursts out of someone, eats some stuff and grows a bit pretty quickly. After that there's a bunch of if statements that determines its next phase of growth. Like once it's grown a bit there's a queen and some eggs around? It hangs there and protects the queen/eggs and becomes a praetorian. There's already a hive of aliens around the queen/eggs? Start bringing beings in to get facehugged. It's by itself? Its behavior gets a little erratic because there's no queen but in general its life is now "There's no queen and I'm not a queen? start eggmorphing whatever I can until I can get a queen facehugger on someone, there's still no queen? I dunno maybe just eat folks or uh", and so on. Once it grows a bit and is in one of these situations it then grows into the different designs we've seen depending on its job. I like it because it goes into the cooler aspects of ants beyond. Like IIRC for a lot of species of ants when they're first born their anatomy is the same, but they're grown into different roles and forms based on the diet they're fed early on by the other ants to make sure there's 1 queen, ___ proportion of workers, soldiers, etc. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:55 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 15:29
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sigher posted:We get the infestation happened with Newt's father right? So did that Xeno start kidnapping people and hauling them to the Derelict? Did it go back to the Derelict, somehow, and haul eggs back? The Queen is in the atmosphere processor laying eggs, that's her hive, but how'd she get there? Or was the first Xeno the Queen that retreated and set up shop? The two cuts of the film present two different scenarios: In the theatrical, it's implied that a whole team of colonists went to explore the space-ship, and a bunch of them got face-crabbed at the same time. "There's no telling how many of them [had been] exposed", but there are six crabs in those preservation tanks - two live and four dead. (In the context of Alien 1, those four dead crabs imply four baby aliens.) So, around one day after finding the ship, you've got a young queen and at least three helpers running around, gathering up supplies to build a nest. This actually provides a decent explanation for how the aliens were able to destroy the colony so quickly: communication immediately lost, half-eaten donuts lying around, etc. The Special Edition actually messes this up because, as you note, the timeline doesn't make any sense. Newt's dad is the only one crabbed. The film cuts away, but Newt's mom presumably drives him back to the colony for treatment. So, 24 hours later, you've got a single young queen running around the colony, gathering up food and bodies so that she can eventually hunker down to produce her first egg. This means multiple days pass between initial exposure and the creation of a second adult alien. The queen spends a good chunk of that time completely immobile, yet the colonists just kinda faff around. Nobody fixes the radio. And at what point did they collect the five additional crabs? SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 16:20 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 16:17
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sigher posted:It's also a little strange that there's literally no one on the Sulaco communicating with the ground team to send in the 2nd drop ship if need be(also, why the hell do they even have a 2nd when the whole team fits on one? I guess they'd run smaller teams or something but it seems like one hell of a military investment of equipment with almost no hands on deck). I get that the Sulaco is autonomous enough to keep itself in orbit, but I'd think that they'd have another quote:Is there ever an explanation in the expanded canon as to how the Queen came to be? We get the infestation happened with Newt's father right? So did that Xeno start kidnapping people and hauling them to the Derelict? Did it go back to the Derelict, somehow, and haul eggs back? The Queen is in the atmosphere processor laying eggs, that's her hive, but how'd she get there? Or was the first Xeno the Queen that retreated and set up shop? PeterCat posted:You could just kludge the two methods of egg production together and assume that one Alien can turn people into eggs, but that one of those will become a queen which is a more efficient way of producing a lot of eggs. Aliens are weird, I see it as a lot of contingencies that aren’t meant to be fully understood. It’s also fiction so they’re going to do whatever is most interesting or useful for the story. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 17:09 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 16:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The two cuts of the film present two different scenarios: This is not a blanket "ambiguity is good", an equally important part of film making is explaining what does need to be explained and god it sucks when film makers are inappropriately ambiguous.
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May 12, 2022 18:13
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The two cuts of the film present two different scenarios: I always thought the Queen was hanging out somewhere in the derelict when Kane got facehugged in Alien 1. After a bunch of colonists got facehugged in Alien II, she and the new drones set up shop beneath the atmosphere processor where the meat is. Then it was open season for the facehuggers.
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May 12, 2022 18:13
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Neo Rasa posted:Like once it's grown a bit there's a queen and some eggs around? It hangs there and protects the queen/eggs and becomes a praetorian. There's already a hive of aliens around the queen/eggs? Start bringing beings in to get facehugged.
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May 12, 2022 18:17
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Speaking of Alien lifecycle stuff, the RTS game “AvP: Extinction” translates it into gameplay terms and it’s a lot of fun. You can only produce new Aliens by capturing hosts, so you have to send Aliens out to knock people out and then either drag them back to the hive or deploy facehuggers in the field to spawn Aliens on the spot. It’s all very accelerated because it’s a videogame. There’s one mission where you start with a single facehugger and have to jump-start a hive from nothing, eventually overrunning a research facility and wiping it out. It’s a real stand-out mission. The game also had an elaborate in-universe Bestiary where it explained all of the gameplay mechanics, units, and upgrades for all three factions in in-universe terms, it was pretty neat. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 18:39 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 18:37
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Xenomrph posted:Speaking of Alien lifecycle stuff, the RTS game “AvP: Extinction” translates it into gameplay terms and it’s a lot of fun. There’s one mission where you start with a single facehugger and have to jump-start a hive from nothing, eventually overrunning a research facility and wiping it out. It’s a real stand-out mission. this game was cool but should have been on PC with online multiplayer so you could use the sick end game units more 16-bit Butt-Head fucked around with this message at 18:40 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 18:38
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