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CubanMissile posted:Well if your typical liberal is to be believed, them just showing up somehow stops evil from rising again. Once the evil is legally in charge, there's nothing you can legally do about it.
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May 12, 2022 03:14
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theCalamity posted:It would be nice to see. What other states are following this lead? This is scrapping the bottom of the barrel of the least Dems could so it would be nice if other states jumped on board.
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May 12, 2022 05:55
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:What other states are following this lead? This is scrapping the bottom of the barrel of the least Dems could so it would be nice if other states jumped on board. The tweet thread you're linking without reading includes reference to similar legislation in DC, for starters. There are a bunch of others in the works, depending on how you define the scope of the legislation in question. Note the article's from early April.
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May 12, 2022 08:00
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theCalamity posted:It would be nice to see. Nice to see they continue to recognize corporations as people. The Republican copy writes itself, "Democrats recognize Disney as a person, but not a child in its mother's womb." Very tone deaf.
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May 12, 2022 09:07
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Kalit posted:
- I don't think so - No - Well, I could use the extra money but not really. I definitely feel money pressure but I'm sure she does too. It's a fairly informal agreement with a basic lease for areas of my house I can't really use since my divorce and after my mom died (she lived with me for a while). If I were a greedy gently caress, I could easily charge more for it but she's ideal for the space and who the gently caress knows what kind of person I might end up with. She's clean, nice, quiet and pays me in cash every month on a fixed income. I don't see any reason to gently caress with that situation on any level really just for an extra few hundred bucks a month. Sorry. Not really US News. Probably should have PM'd you.
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May 12, 2022 11:53
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BiggerBoat posted:- I don't think so Thank you for your response on this. Since rent control/stabilization laws are sweeping the nation, I felt like it's not too far off topic (as long as it wasn't too personal, sorry about your situation but it sounds like you're making the best of it). Too bad most/nearly all property owners don't have your attitude.
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May 12, 2022 12:00
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PeterCat posted:Nice to see they continue to recognize corporations as people. To be fair, this is more to say that any companies that are discriminated against for support of trans rights or abortion rights are also welcome and will be protected if I understand this right. Due to the SCOTUS ruling that companies are people too they've probably got to put that in there if they don't want to have the law challenged the first time ____ clearly transphobic company shows up in the state after claiming discrimination and then sues and takes it all the way up to the SCOTUS to get the whole law repealed. Which could be disastrous for the non-corporate victims if there are things like criminal charges and financial penalties in play in the state that they were forced to flee from. Aside from that, protecting companies that are trying to do the right thing in the favor of Republican malfeasance is also a really good idea too in the long run. As Desantis' behavior has made it clear that the Republicans view materially punishing companies that go against their will is also an issue. Meaning that it's important to take the long view of also protecting businesses that hold the view that discrimination is not okay in the public eye, since otherwise they may seek to simply side with the Republicans for fear of losing money. Thereby giving the Republicans an important foothold in making these monstrous laws the standard of the land. As a bonus it also firmly sticks a thumb in the eye of any Republican who sabotages their own economy in pursuit of bigotry by targeting businesses. Since it's essentially saying "Hey! These sadistic losers are making you lose money! Why don't you bring as much of that cash as you want to our state instead!". Which can put internal pressure on the Republican held states to vote these assholes out if the law is done correctly while potentially bolstering the economy of blue states. It's also possible (if refugee laws protect businesses as well as a standard) it puts internal pressure on the Republican party as a whole to find a less repugnant and inarguably evil cause to champion since at the end of the day the old school Republicans care about money and power alone. Neither of those things are easy to get if the donor money starts to taper off or go to the other party in greater quantities. Either way, these refugee bills are unilaterally a good both in practice and morality in a country where the Republicans are slavishly devoted to a section of their base that doesn't consider other human beings different from them to be human beings deserving of rights, safety, or even existence. Archonex fucked around with this message at 13:41 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 12:48
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It's pretty wild to me that in 2022 we're going to have a functional rerun of the fugitive slave laws versus personal liberty laws. Not surprising, just "drat, we're really here, huh."
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May 12, 2022 12:57
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Kanos posted:It's pretty wild to me that in 2022 we're going to have a functional rerun of the fugitive slave laws versus personal liberty laws. Yeah. It's loving absurd that we're retreading this ground so long after the fact that issues like this should have been settled. But to be fair, as a country we never really reckoned with the fact that an increasingly small chunk of our population does not really hold the ideals of "freedom, justice, and equality for all" as being a thing they are obligated to pursue. For quite some time nor did we as a country ever really legislatively, culturally, or institutionally take the issue of stopping the beliefs of the post civil war confederates and their ideological descendants (who successfully relitigated the conflict into them being noble heroes who were crushed by northern corruption or whatever the excuse of the hour is), supremacists, or literal fascists and literal nazis* despite the myriad boondoggles of corruption, bigotry, and just outright sadism that came from tolerating institutionalized and cultural racism and bigotry. So the long and short of it is that sooner or later we were going to have this conflict of ideals again. And assuming we don't make it unfeasible for these groups to organize before they are suppressed yet again this time around future generations will probably have to fight the same battles legislatively or, in the worst case, with violence. Hopefully this time we make it impractical for hate groups to operate on a national level for good so they can stop plaguing our country and her people. *Fun fact, back before WW2 we had dedicated fascist political groups. When Nazi Germany rolled around they were all about that mass murder, thievery from their chosen targets of hatred, etc, etc. We also had a dedicated communist movement. Both ended up officially disappearing during WW2 and onwards. In the case of the communists disappearing? They were crushed out of existence (to the point of actions against them straight up being illegal, like holding their candidates in jail/prison without legitimate charges to keep them from winning/running.) by collaboration from the two parties when it became apparent that they were in serious jeopardy of being deposed due to serious gently caress ups that basically boiled down to reasons like "we cozied up to corrupt capitalists and banking associations too much and when the bubble popped and poo poo like the Great Depression inevitably hit people were literally starving to death or couldn't even afford shoes in parts of the country, and they were right to blame us.". Couple this with the cold war propaganda also targeting the communist party and you have a recipe for them shriveling (alongside labor rights, ironically). In fact, given what some scholars have claimed things like the New Deal were partially an attempt to keep the country from going communist or socialist by taking pressure off of the Republicans and Democratic parties and their respective mistakes in governance. Of course, then things like the Business Coup happened and apparently no one learned their lesson despite a literal conspiracy of capitalists trying to overthrow the country in retaliation for not letting people starve to death via taxing the rich fairly.  Just a link to the wikipedia of one of the groups operating back then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Communist_Party_USA The fascists though? The supremacists, the neo-confederates, and the nazi sympathizers and the like? They saw the writing on the wall once the evidence of industrialized genocides came out to the public and went dark by starting to focus primarily on infiltrating the two dominant political parties and religions that were susceptible to their rhetoric (like various branches of Evangelicalism, which had been having issues with only short lived boosts of popularity due to the inerrancy movement being increasingly seen as dumb as heck even to lay persons who had a basic education**.). Of course, the southern shift booted most of them out to the Republican party. Hence why at certain points over the last century you can see numerous people referring to conservative candidates and pundits as crypto-nazis similar to what Gore Vidal once did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_the_Americas Suffice to say that the boomers and silents really should have focused more on wiping these groups out if we wanted the Republican party to be less insane and racist. Hindsight 20/20 and all, but yeah. Definitely a collective gently caress up on the part of those that came before. ** Honestly, you can probably link the evangelical movement's overall antipathy towards public education partially back to this (and racism/bigotry in general obviously) if you were willing to do some historical digging. Though i'll say that the modern evangelical is nothing like some of the evangelicals of old. Especially back during the civil war period. Reading up on their history it's shocking how hard times and continual bad choices on the part of their cultural leaders has lead to a movement that is distinctly downright anti-christian in nature in their rejection of empathy towards others. And i'm really not kidding about that. In fact, some of the evangelicals of the civil war time period were straight up militant abolitionists. It was to the point where there was at least one place in the south where escaped slaves could walk around in public without fear of reprisal due to the evangelicals and intellectuals of the area actively threatening (and might actually have done so to lend some heft to their threats) to straight up murder anyone that went after the escaped slaves. Then they hit some hard times, kicked out their intellectual types during and after the inerrancy movement, and generally just kept listening to the worst/most immoral people possible and things lead to where they are now. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:45 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 13:15
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Archonex posted:
Nice post, appreciate the effort. I want to say though, the problem is more stark than this: the vast majority of the population has never believed in this and still does not now, except for very narrow definitions of each of those four words. Our society just gradually lopes along expanding what it means to be free or to be equal or who gets to be excluded from "all".
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May 12, 2022 15:09
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Archonex posted:Though i'll say that the modern evangelical is nothing like some of the evangelicals of old. Especially back during the civil war period. Reading up on their history it's shocking how hard times and continual bad choices on the part of their cultural leaders has lead to a movement that is distinctly downright anti-christian in nature in their rejection of empathy towards others.
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May 12, 2022 15:41
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Nice post, appreciate the effort. I want to say though, the problem is more stark than this: the vast majority of the population has never believed in this and still does not now, except for very narrow definitions of each of those four words. Our society just gradually lopes along expanding what it means to be free or to be equal or who gets to be excluded from "all". there is a very interesting book from a few years back called American Nations that explored this, a little short version, the various colonization waves of different people into America brought with them VERY different angles on what 'freedom' meant; in New York it was freedom to trade with whoever, in New England it was freedom to build your ideal religious society, in Virginia it was freedom to build an idealized feudal society, in West Virginia it was freedom to tell the Virginians to gently caress off, in Pennsylvania it was freedom to leave all the horrors of the old world's wars behind, and in the Carolinas it was freedom to brutalize the absolute poo poo out of your inferiors a lot of the story of american domestic politics is the story of these various ideas entering into temporary alliances against the other ones; an interesting observation is that West Virginia and its descendants (greater appalachia, as he ends up calling it) have an unbroken string of picking the winner in internal disputes and then getting just loving ANNIHILATED by the triumphant victors as a thank you. whether it's aligning with the North in the Civil War or with the Republican party now, their reward for loyal service as a junior partner in a coalition is consistently getting the poo poo kicked out of them.
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May 12, 2022 16:40
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Nice post, appreciate the effort. I want to say though, the problem is more stark than this: the vast majority of the population has never believed in this and still does not now, except for very narrow definitions of each of those four words. Our society just gradually lopes along expanding what it means to be free or to be equal or who gets to be excluded from "all". I highly disagree with this. When polling it becomes apparent that the majority of Americans are in favor of civil rights for trans people and the right to an abortion. As abuse towards them and Republican/religious abuses of power become more evident this polling becomes even more strongly in favor of the protection of trans people's rights and the right to an abortion. Just look at the Roe V Wade decision. Radical extremist Christians barely make up even a notable part of the country. However due to the hosed up system of reliance on them by the Republican party coupled with them having some billionaire and multi millionaire backers willing to throw vast sums of money around to see certain groups of people get hurt or murdered they have an outsized influence compared to their actual size and representation in our democracy. The other part of it is that after the southern shift the Republicans made the closest thing people in this century are probably going to see to a devil's bargain (and I am roughly quoting a Republican who was foundational in the southern strategy in this) with the tattered concept of evangelicalism that currently exists. This came part and parcel along with the bigots that had been steadily trying to tie themselves to the religious movement since before the southern strategy. Something the Republicans were if not okay with, then certainly weren't against aligning their political interests with during and after the southern shift via aligning with supremacist movements and religious movements that had an implicit or explicit supremacist bent. Take modern Dominionism as an example of what I mean, and then factor in their slowly increasing influence over parts of the evangelical base over the decades since they aligned with the Republican party. A sizable chunk of the modern evangelical religion has ended up as much as an extension of certain supremacist movements as it is a Republican prop to get voters out to the polls. Couple this with the apathy internal to both evangelicalism and the Republican party to this really hosed up system of perverse incentives and it eventually became entrenched to the point that an industry was built around it. Evangelical leaders and their sock puppets make huge amounts of money pushing bigotry. Hence why you have bastards like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and co desperately angling for that money. Ditto for Fox News as well. The end result being that you have an entrenched system of supremacism and bigotry that despite being sick and perverse (especially by the beliefs of Christianity) has huge financial and political incentives to opt into it if you lack the morals (or for the lay person, awareness) to recognize how wrong it is. And of course the Republicans keep stoking this base since they can't ditch them without probably losing at least a few upcoming elections for the next few cycles while disgust towards the party simmers down to something approachable. Which is something no politician is going to do without these people becoming a greater liability than they are advantage since it would be political suicide. And the evangelical movements keep losing young people since young people are more educated and willing to use sources of communication that make it screamingly obvious from interacting with persecuted minorities that the racists and bigots are full of poo poo. So every time both groups have the chance to have an epiphany and do the right thing they just keep trending towards greater extremism that alienates even more people. Since past a certain point it's either rip the band aid off and take your licks or insist it's the entire world (barring genocidal authoritarian places like Russia and China, ironically) that's wrong and you are the right ones/chosen people/etc. Which of course leads to greater attempts at abuses of power after the rhetoric sets a new baseline. Which leads to more people quietly having doubts while others just hit their breaking point and leave. Which inevitably leads to another "come to jesus" moment where the evangelicals and Republicans have to choose whether to course correct or double down again. Which leads to even greater extremism by way of fear of having to actually reap what they sowed and the cycle repeats ad infinitum until they're irrelevant unless they do an end run around our political system. Which is the problem we see now with the Republican party and attendant extremist religious groups. The upside to this is that the groups pushing bigotry are in the minority. In fact, if it wasn't for the fact that millions to tens of millions of dollars went into this movement from absurdly rich bastards* it would have gone nowhere and been local at best. It's also why they spend so much time making crazy literal anti-christian cults like the Family (of which a certain recent Republican SCOTUS nominee was a part of, if I recall correctly) that say that the weak will come last, the strong are the first, etc, etc. It's for the purpose of training up prospective political operatives or politicians to co-opt the system against the will of the people. TL;DR: Racism, bigotry, and patriarchy is extremist/right wing Christianity and vice versa to these people. Politically and especially financially they are tied together at the hip. *Of course this is also a tremendous weakness of the current religious and cultural supremacist movement as a whole. If they start getting heavily taxed or just have their money confiscated due to literally trying to murder as many people as possible via institutionalized bigotry they're hosed in terms of negotiating power to keep the Republicans interested in them outside of ideologically aligned zealots. The alternative would be the Republicans having to capitulate entirely and just ignore the lack of financial incentives to do what the extremists want in exchange for votes. Incidentally, this is also why many of the seated Republicans who benefit from this (and extremist right wing Christians obviously) will drop the mask of affability vis a vis "just asking the Jewish Question" about whatever minority is the target of the week and start foaming at the mouth the moment someone on the Democratic party side of things intimates that they want to try to start taking these groups to task by looking at revising the financial protections safeguarding religions and associated religious hate groups from being taxed. Since if they lose that cost free inflow of money the movement to gently caress over minorities is going to take a serious blow not just to it's current progress but also possibly it's appeal to other awful human beings in the future out of greed or just things separate from religious extremism. Which means less money all around for those two groups, which means less political power all around for them, etc, etc. Archonex fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 16:40
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cat botherer posted:Good post. Kind of interesting to me how pre late-antique religions didn't really value empathy or moral universalism, but instead had a theology based around power and submission, with accompanying rewards and punishments. The psychological impulses towards that make sense, and but its weird to see strains of Christianity heading right back there. One of the things that's never gotten old for me is quoting the bible at religious nuts. Both my father and father-in-law were educated in strict New England catholic schools and are hardcore right wing reactionaries absolutely lose their mind when I show them overlaps between the actual text of the Bible and basic tenets of Marx-based leftism. One of these days my father-in-law is going to kick me out but until then I just can't resist poking the beast. "And how did Jesus vet everyone he gave bread and fish to as having or actively seeking professional employment?"
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May 12, 2022 16:40
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Archonex posted:I highly disagree with this. When polling it becomes apparent that the majority of Americans are in favor of civil rights for trans people and the right to an abortion. As abuse towards them and Republican/religious abuses of power become more evident this polling becomes even more strongly in favor of the protection of trans people's rights and the right to an abortion. Just look at the Roe V Wade decision. This isn't what I meant. You worried that a small chunk of our population does not hold the ideals of "freedom, justice, and equality for all" as something they are obligated to pursue, and I responded that the great majority do not see those as universal ideals. Sure, people are broadly in favor of civil rights as we now define civil rights. But they're not in favor of freedom and justice and equality for the homeless. They're not in favor of freedom and equality in their own communities when they're setting housing policy. They're not in favor of equal rights for convicted criminals. They're not in favor of justice for the wrong kinds of people, like drug addicts. They broadly support a capitalist class society with inherent, built-in inequality, because they perceive that as a virtue. I could go on forever. And you probably meant none of that when you used the catchphrase, but what about any of that is not relevant to the concepts of freedom and equality? It's not that we aren't making a slow march towards greater freedom, justice, and equality for greater numbers of people. It is that the idea that this nation was ever founded on a universal notion of "liberty and justice for all" beyond being a cute phrase. We pretend like it is more than that, but it requires warping the definitions of each term, even the most obvious ones like "all". [edit: atrocious pre-coffee brain fart removed] BRAKE FOR MOOSE fucked around with this message at 17:09 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 17:05
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https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1524781702681440256?s=20&t=T8WkLU16og_eH2a0SZT6RA But she doesn't need to reaffirm her support for him. You can't say that abortion rights are human rights and then turn around and support someone who is anti-abortion.
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May 12, 2022 17:09
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:This isn't what I meant. You worried that a small chunk of our population does not hold the ideals of "freedom, justice, and equality for all" as something they are obligated to pursue, and I responded that the great majority do not see those as universal ideals. Sure, people are broadly in favor of civil rights as we now define civil rights. But they're not in favor of freedom and justice and equality for the homeless. They're not in favor of freedom and equality in their own communities when they're setting housing policy. They're not in favor of equal rights for convicted criminals. They're not in favor of justice for the wrong kinds of people, like drug addicts. They broadly support a capitalist class society with inherent, built-in inequality, because they perceive that as a virtue. I could go on forever. And you probably meant none of that when you used the catchphrase, but what about any of that is not relevant to the concepts of freedom and equality? I think a majority probably thinks those are ideals they have, but in reality become complete fascists when that "freedom, justice, and equality for all" means being inconvenienced in some small way, or a 2% increase in taxes, or when they see their property values threatened. My personal experience has generally been with like 90% of all the lefty/liberal people I've known IRL having a huge compassion blindspot wrt the unhoused. Just astonishing lack of empathy, given that many of them 100% understand that we are in the midst of a housing crisis and that people are constantly priced out of their neighborhoods.
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May 12, 2022 17:16
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1524781702681440256?s=20&t=T8WkLU16og_eH2a0SZT6RA If the party is actually pro-choice, why would they ever take the risk to keep someone in a position where they could be the deciding vote? Like it is entirely possible that the Dems hang onto the House by a single seat, and that seat could very well be Cuellar's. They're not stupid, they just don't actually care.
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May 12, 2022 17:20
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1524781702681440256?s=20&t=T8WkLU16og_eH2a0SZT6RA There is no reason why anyone should believe Democrats will do anything to protect abortion rights when things like this just keep happening.
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May 12, 2022 17:22
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Fister Roboto posted:If the party is actually pro-choice, why would they ever take the risk to keep someone in a position where they could be the deciding vote? Like it is entirely possible that the Dems hang onto the House by a single seat, and that seat could very well be Cuellar's. Pelosi literally waves off the reporter's question by saying she thought he was "going to take it to choice or something" instead of his asking why she's supporting a corrupt piece of poo poo. That she and Clyburn unabashedly went to Cuellar's district to campaign for him a couple days after the Alito leak shows how Dem leadership feels about abortion: It's an issue to trot out for fundraising & votes and literally nothing else. Biden even stated publicly the other day that the party is hoping to exploit a scotus decision for the midterms. They don't care about abortion except for its financial & electoral utility.
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May 12, 2022 17:32
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Monmouth has a new poll out; Biden's approvals have swung 43 points in the last 18 months: quote:Among typical household expenses most Americans pay, a majority (58%) say it is currently difficult for them to afford gas for their cars. Just over half also say it is difficult for them to pay grocery bills (52%), their tax bills (51%), and health care deductibles and out of pocket expenses (51%). Just under half say the same about health insurance premiums (48%) and fewer than 4 in 10 say making their mortgage or rent payment (37%) is difficult. A Monmouth poll from 2017 – the year before Democrats took control of the House of Representatives – found somewhat more people saying these expenses were easy to meet and fewer saying they were difficult, with the ease of buying groceries being the starkest change (62% easy in 2017 versus 47% easy in 2022).
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May 12, 2022 17:41
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1524781702681440256?s=20&t=T8WkLU16og_eH2a0SZT6RA You do not in fact have to support and platform someone who doesn't believe in human rights just because they're a coworker on "your team". The most important people to Democratic politicians is their coworkers and the rest of us get whatever scraps of feeling they have left
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May 12, 2022 17:44
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https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1524800192956055553 subpoenas were issued for members of congress. They'll likely ignore them and that will be that. Also democrat political https://twitter.com/sarahnferris/status/1524792388677402626 Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 18:20 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 18:17
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Professor Beetus posted:I think a majority probably thinks those are ideals they have, but in reality become complete fascists... This is how you get tons of people saying that "The United States is a Christian Nation" or that it was founded on christian beliefs (it wasn't) and associate whatever they think Jesus was with being a good patriotic american simply virtue of attending church. I feel comfortable saying about 90 to 95% of what churches do is complete bullshit, flies in the face of the bible's teachings and is mainly used as a tool to gain power and the money that goes with it. They get to carve out a nice, tax free business for themselves and justify the horrible poo poo they preach with the self justifying idea that they speak for god. I'm not trying to be a religion sucks edge lord here but I live in the south and, lemme tell you, it's a business first and foremost. At least for the larger churches. Wasn't the whole american revolution mainly founded on people explicitly wanting to flee the combined powers of the government and the church?
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May 12, 2022 18:21
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm not trying to be a religion sucks edge lord here but I live in the south and, lemme tell you, it's a business first and foremost. At least for the larger churches. Wasn't the whole american revolution mainly founded on people explicitly wanting to flee the combined powers of the government and the church? I thought it was mainly people that didn't want to pay their taxes. Lots of the original colonists were fleeing that though.
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May 12, 2022 18:22
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I think those two things were intertwined? no?Willa Rogers posted:Monmouth has a new poll out; Biden's approvals have swung 43 points in the last 18 months: Brace yourselves for Trump 2.0 This is abysmal.
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May 12, 2022 18:24
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BiggerBoat posted:This is how you get tons of people saying that "The United States is a Christian Nation" or that it was founded on christian beliefs (it wasn't) and associate whatever they think Jesus was with being a good patriotic american simply virtue of attending church. I feel comfortable saying about 90 to 95% of what churches do is complete bullshit, flies in the face of the bible's teachings and is mainly used as a tool to gain power and the money that goes with it. They get to carve out a nice, tax free business for themselves and justify the horrible poo poo they preach with the self justifying idea that they speak for god. Take away their tax-exempt status, enforce labor standards on them, and watch them run like cockroaches when the lights turn on.
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May 12, 2022 18:25
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Also democrat political This is disingenuous at best. Using decision instead of choice when a woman wants/needs to abort is at worst a lateral move in thinking. Frankly, the fact they're saying the talking point should be accessible instead of rare seems like a much bigger point that they might actually know what they're talking about for once.
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May 12, 2022 18:33
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Robviously posted:This is disingenuous at best. Using decision instead of choice when a woman wants/needs to abort is at worst a lateral move in thinking. Frankly, the fact they're saying the talking point should be accessible instead of rare seems like a much bigger point that they might actually know what they're talking about for once. Yeah, it's not all bad, but decision vs choice is just asinine focus group bullshit.
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May 12, 2022 18:38
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Robviously posted:This is disingenuous at best. Using decision instead of choice when a woman wants/needs to abort is at worst a lateral move in thinking. Frankly, the fact they're saying the talking point should be accessible instead of rare seems like a much bigger point that they might actually know what they're talking about for once. Yeah, imo "decision" instead of "choice" is an improvement. You "choose" to do something that you may or want to do. You "decide" whether to seek treatment for an issue or not. Is it all reactionary due to shitbird messaging? Yes, but it's changing to counter it without actually ceding any meaning. They're focusing on the medical aspect of abortion which is probably going to be the winning option because lol civil rights in America. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 18:42 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 18:39
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BiggerBoat posted:
Pretty much every state up until the 1830s/40s had a "state church" that received preferential treatment. The 1st Amendment to my knowledge was seen as restricting only the Federal Govt. from choosing a national church, not states in the early period post-Revolution. Most of the colonists were annoyed at the Church of England getting favoritism instead of their local Baptist or Methodist or Puritan Church. Although I think Virginia had Anglicanism as their state church. The Puritans/Pilgrims coming over is frequently cited as "looking for religious freedom", but the Puritans by and large were leaving England because politically they were losing power as non-Puritans were pretty tired of their zealous and strict rule. It was more about getting out of dodge before the coming backlash then being poor and persecuted.
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May 12, 2022 18:51
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CuddleCryptid posted:Yeah, imo "decision" instead of "choice" is an improvement. You "choose" to do something that you may or want to do. You "decide" whether to seek treatment for an issue or not. Pundits are thinking it's shooting themselves in the foot so maybe it's actually good https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1524811581875421184
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May 12, 2022 19:01
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Pundits are thinking it's shooting themselves in the foot so maybe it's actually good I await Kristol or Frum's opinion on this so I know which take is the incorrect one. Weigel is alas too much a wild card and is correct about things sometimes Personally, this just feels like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic to me. Good changes imho but the war here has advanced quite a bit beyond where this would change anything
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May 12, 2022 19:08
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Robviously posted:This is disingenuous at best. Using decision instead of choice when a woman wants/needs to abort is at worst a lateral move in thinking. Frankly, the fact they're saying the talking point should be accessible instead of rare seems like a much bigger point that they might actually know what they're talking about for once. Agreed. I still don't understand why a lot of people here push back on me when I suggest that the Dems have a very serious messaging problem. What else do you call this? The poo poo they come with is 99/100 times the end result of them trying to come up with something that will offend the fewest amount of people possible and focus grouping it with a lot of really old people instead of just getting to the truth of the matter and coming up with language that communicates that truthfully. It reeks of a room of twenty 60 year old rich people deciding what to call things and it resembles a bunch of studio execs loving up a good movie. We're always reacting and on the defensive; seeking out a middle ground that barely exists and that consistently shifts rightward in part at least due to precise poo poo like this because we consistently let the opposition dictate the framing on things. How many Make America Who is this poo poo designed to appeal to? What is it trying to say or communicate? To make the word "abortion" less icky and entire idea more palatable to...whom exactly? These mythical centrists? Jesus Christ, just loving stand for something and loving say it using concise language and fight for it. That's what Republicans do with all their horrible poo poo and we see time and time again that it fires up their base. I mean, say what you want about them but they rarely come off as "weak" at least and, when they do, they tend to get run out. They're salesmen in a capitalist nation utterly dominated by them. We sell explanations and excuses. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 19:11 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 19:09
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some new text messages were released from the January 6th committee between Meadows, Brooks, and Jordan. https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1524815190054821890
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May 12, 2022 19:18
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1524781702681440256?s=20&t=T8WkLU16og_eH2a0SZT6RA Cuellar is in a primary vs a progressive. Leadership would rather an anti choice moderate than a pro choice progressive. That's why I think they're endorsing him. They don't care about his views on abortion, they want him to help block progressives.
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May 12, 2022 19:32
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Clyburn most certainly does, given his machinations for the last several years.
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May 12, 2022 19:33
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reminder that Nance as house leader said "we shouldn't primary Democrat incumbents" and then went on to support a Senate primary for Joe Kennedy against Ed Markey lmao https://mobile.twitter.com/bostonglobe/status/1296485356502765568
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May 12, 2022 19:40
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ex post facho posted:reminder that Nance as house leader said "we shouldn't primary Democrat incumbents" and then went on to support a Senate primary for Joe Kennedy against Ed Markey lmao
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May 12, 2022 19:46
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BiggerBoat posted:I think those two things were intertwined? no? Trump is going to not only win the popular vote but at this rate will also win nearly half of Latino voters and and probably around a quarter of black voters. With the market continuing to fall and other countries becoming less stable, it’s clear that Biden and the rest of the Democrats aren’t going to be up to the task of fixing this issue because they don’t have the balls to discipline their members and that for them and their supporters the true solutions are beyond their lexicon of the neoliberal ideology.
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May 12, 2022 20:04
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