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Yeah, every gang can do things that, if not break, at least distort the game. The best thing to do is have an Arbitrator who is proactive enough to notice and have a word with players if their lists are dangerously unfun, and knowledgeable enough to pre-warn players about wargear/weapon/skill choices that can be a problem. Honestly though, you see a lot of furore on the internet about what X or Y gang can do and how no other gang can equal it (missing the fact that other gang can do something else) with the assumption that makes the game unplayable. In my real life experience that isn't the case, because players tend to build a mix of models and then use them as WYSIWYG, and because people naturally want to play a series of campaign games with their friends, not crush an unsuspecting player once and then sit there without any opponent. For example, if you had a Van Saar player whose naturally high BS, Shooting Skills and access to good weaponry (although the weaponry is actually about the same as what any other gang can access) is dominating in big open tables, it's pretty simple to add more solid terrain or direct players to scenarios that will require movement and close-in play around objectives. If you have a Corpse Grinder Cult player who is spamming Initiates (which are one of the truly under-costed things in the game, they cost half of what most other gangers do for the same statline, with above-average armour and the Infiltrate skill included) then people just need to have a word with him to introduce more model variety or they'll house rule the Infiltrate ability away, or restrict it to D3 models per scenario, or whatever else you fancy.
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May 10, 2022 09:14
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I went to buy an Underhive Scum or outcast or whatever gang today, and they’ve disappeared. Barely even a mention anywhere.
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May 10, 2022 23:59
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Huh. They're packaged as a set of 4 "Hive Scum" now. Weird
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May 11, 2022 00:28
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Hey, what are the official rules on third party miniatures these days? I think it used to be 51% of a miniature needed to be GW? I'm specifically looking at those wonderful Victoria Miniatures versions of the Imperial Guard and thinking one box of that would make a great Kill Team, but I hope to play in tournaments and, while I know there's always the answer of "whatever your FLG says", I'd like to know what the official stance is as a starting point.
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May 11, 2022 16:16
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Jack B Nimble posted:Hey, what are the official rules on third party miniatures these days? It really depends on where you intend to play. If you want to play at an official GW venue or sponsored event they will officially state that zero non-GW components are to be used. You might get away with comparatively subtle things like unhelmeted head swaps (eg. something where an observer would have to both look pretty closely and have a comprehensive knowledge of all components produced by the company), but basically GW has become vastly less tolerant of any competitors stuff being used. That said, as far as I know basically any other context couldn't give less of a poo poo.
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May 11, 2022 16:39
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Yeah, don't bother with other manufacturers if you're thinking about playing in any official capacity. Even your lenient FLGS may be under pressure to disallow non-GW if there is a tourney with GW support of any kind.
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May 11, 2022 16:43
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Ok, gotcha. Of course since it's KT I can collect a third party team and not at all preclude myself from tournaments with other armies, but it's good to know how things stand.
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May 11, 2022 16:52
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For Kill Team no one gives a fuuuuuck, much like Blood Bowl*. *If they do laugh at them and find someone cooler to play with
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May 11, 2022 18:22
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Been painting some necromunda dudettes 
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May 11, 2022 18:29
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working mom posted:Been painting some necromunda dudettes Old munda is great munda, nice job 
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May 11, 2022 20:58
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working mom posted:Been painting some necromunda dudettes Is that modern-version Escher reloading a grenade launcher? Nice bit of modelling if so.
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May 11, 2022 21:35
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Virtual Russian posted:Haha, so is the balance between gangs as off as it was in the old Necromunda? Playing Van Saar in that version was essentially a faux-pas as the become so overpowered as campaigns went on. The hate for them was immense. We didn't let anyone play them in our big campaign. The rule of thumb is that if Van Saar are running away with the campaign you aren't using enough terrain. Newcromunda has this thing where instead of all the gangs starting with identical stats they start off with gang based ones (so Goliaths get +1S, +1T and Van Saars get +1BS. It feels like you start three or four games into your campaign for both good and ill.
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May 11, 2022 22:48
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I talked up Epic Armageddon too much and now I have four people asking me to 3D print them forces  This was a mistake
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May 12, 2022 05:00
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I talked up Epic Armageddon too much and now I have four people asking me to 3D print them forces Sounds like a great problem to have! I've only got one person into it in my local area so far, but there is also a huge epic scene here. Genghis Cohen posted:Yeah, every gang can do things that, if not break, at least distort the game. The best thing to do is have an Arbitrator who is proactive enough to notice and have a word with players if their lists are dangerously unfun, and knowledgeable enough to pre-warn players about wargear/weapon/skill choices that can be a problem. Yeah when I ran a huge campaign with around 10 players myself and another did this. We just plain didn't allow Van Saars, building a custom gang as a replacement for the Van Saars. It ran really well and was a ton of fun. Virtual Russian fucked around with this message at 05:21 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 05:18
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Genghis Cohen posted:Is that modern-version Escher reloading a grenade launcher? Nice bit of modelling if so. It is! Its from the krieg set, had to do some posing and filling but thought it looked better than the giant magazine ones for escher
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May 12, 2022 08:27
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Virtual Russian posted:Sounds like a great problem to have! I've only got one person into it in my local area so far, but there is also a huge epic scene here. Yeah, a lot of the moaning about balance on the internet is about hypothetical situations - well, if my opponent uses Goliath Genesmithing for additional Wounds and Toughness and takes Ablative Overlays on everyone and Frenzon Collars and Falsehoods on every melee fighter then we're boned. All things that would need the Arbitrator to be asleep at the wheel and the player involved to be really tone-deaf. If a real life group falls into these traps, it's either a one-off mistake or the issue is with the people as much as the game. That said, it's not trivial for the Arbitrator to keep on top of this, many players do enjoy the mini-game of 'how can I make my gang as deadly as possible', either without thinking through the consequences or assuming everyone else is doing the same. In our current campaign (I am not arbitrating this time) we have a Slave Ogryn gang. Their player has taken only the leader/champions and lobo-slaves, no regular Ogryns. All the important guys have Falsehoods. His leader has a Frenzon Collar. I mean, I'll be fair to him, he has not tried to take Ablative Overlays, although that would have been stopped by the Arbitrator anyway. He's not a bad guy, he does perceive when something isn't fair. But obviously that line for him might be a bit different to the several newer players we have in the group! Interestingly I don't see Van Saar as a balance problem that needs extensive house ruling. Their 4" movement and lack of any effectiveness in melee make them, IMO, way worse than say Delaque, who can't shoot as well, but can access top-tier melee champions to balance out their roster. As said already, if Van Saar are a problem in your group it's fixable with terrain rather than weakening the gang's rules. I'd be more worried about Corpse Grinders. working mom posted:It is! Its from the krieg set, had to do some posing and filling but thought it looked better than the giant magazine ones for escher Well done! I have a similar-looking one from the GSC Atalan Jackals on my Orlock dirtbikes. It's a cool weapon.
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May 12, 2022 09:08
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Genghis Cohen posted:
My campaign was about a decade ago, so Oldcromunda. Van Saars were madly overpowered as they had access to special upgrades no one else could get. Plus the game massively favours shooting in the late game, and the Van Saars got insanely good at it. While melee gangs had much more modest upgrades, and you had to charge through Van Saar overwatches.
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May 13, 2022 07:02
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Virtual Russian posted:My campaign was about a decade ago, so Oldcromunda. Van Saars were madly overpowered as they had access to special upgrades no one else could get. Plus the game massively favours shooting in the late game, and the Van Saars got insanely good at it. While melee gangs had much more modest upgrades, and you had to charge through Van Saar overwatches. Ah, Oldcromunda, didn't get that. Yeah, shooting was miserable with Overwatch rules then. Every once in a while someone asking about Newcromunda asks 'oh, can I still put my guys on Overwatch' and gets told it's a special skill now. If they are disappointed by this news, I mentally mark them down as being a really unfun person to play against.
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May 13, 2022 08:48
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Van Saar don't seem all that horrible because amazing shooting is still something you can work around and they do have weaknesses. Corpse Grinders, however, are straight up banned in my campaign because that gang is just unfixable. You can nerf them, sure, but the general principle of an all-melee gang whose gimmick is super long charge distances is just unfun and garbage design in the context of Necromunda.
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May 13, 2022 09:12
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Genghis Cohen posted:Yeah, shooting was miserable with Overwatch rules then. ... I mentally mark them down as being a really unfun person to play against. This is a grotesque oversimplification Squibsy fucked around with this message at 09:40 on May 13, 2022 |
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May 13, 2022 09:37
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Squibsy posted:This is a grotesque oversimplification I know you played a lot more Oldcromunda than I ever did, but you'll have a hard time convincing me they should have kept Overwatch as a universal action. My overwhelming memory of it was just having shooting-dominant gangs sit there and say 'come at me' to melee gangs, which then either declined the match, or eventually ran forward and got shot. Basically making the games a contest of who would run out of patience and commit to the losing moves (moving forward or dropping out of Overwatch) first. Guildencrantz posted:Van Saar don't seem all that horrible because amazing shooting is still something you can work around and they do have weaknesses. Corpse Grinders, however, are straight up banned in my campaign because that gang is just unfixable. You can nerf them, sure, but the general principle of an all-melee gang whose gimmick is super long charge distances is just unfun and garbage design in the context of Necromunda. Yeah, the CGC need a LOT of house ruling limits to work. I still don't know what they were smoking with 25 cred Initiates. They're gangers with a great skill and good armour, FFS!
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May 13, 2022 10:10
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I find that a pretty funny statement from an Infinity player  No doubt, Overwatch would have a different place in an alternating activations game as opposed to full-turn IGOUGO. As for Oldmunda, it simply was not as bad as you describe. So many things were different about the old game. Shooting was dominant, but it is in Newmunda too. The faction balance meat that all gangs needed to, and could, take a more even approach. Everyone could make competent shooters, everyone could make competent melee fighters, and using them in support of each other made for a different but rewarding tactical experience. Access to super deadly guns was much more restricted, with the heavy weapons generally being the high damage/high rate of fire choices, and consequently having their mobility severely limited. Access to special weapons was also very limited.* Newmunda adds all kinds of extra lethality in the basic weapons slot, with boltguns and combat shotguns being examples that come to mind. Additionally, failing an ammo roll meant that weapon was out of use for the whole game, which meant that shooting gangs would become combat ineffective over time - albeit unpredictably so, with many of the best weapons having a much greater chance to lose ammo due to difficult target rolls or a high rate of fire forcing more checks. By contrast, close combat was very swingy but was SUPER deadly. Not being able to pick your advances meant that it was much much more difficult to min/max your fighters, meaning you had to make the most of your advances and find ways to utilise weird hybrid characters. This generally meant that shots were hitting on 5+ or worse due to cover, range penalties, and the Overwatch penalty. When hitting on a 6 forced an ammo roll, it often would mean you had an opportunity take a shot but choose not to because hitting with those slim odds would mean you had a high chance of taking the active weapon out of the game. It wasn't all rosy of course, there was the general problem of randomised advances sometimes gifting one gang with a tonne of gold and another with all the poo poo. And I and others made many a post on Yaktribe positing house rules to tilt the balance a little bit away from shooting and towards close combat, but it wasn't anywhere close to the boring grind fest you describe. * Except Van Saar. Their Juves could get the Specialist skill before they even level up to being gangers... 
Squibsy fucked around with this message at 10:49 on May 13, 2022 |
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May 13, 2022 10:45
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Squibsy posted:I find that a pretty funny statement from an Infinity player Haha, in fact Infinity vastly favours the Active player over the Reactive. Partly because you can use the full Burst value of your weapons, but just as much, or in combination with that, you have control over where on the board, ie between what models, the interactions are happening. Yes models in Infinity all react to movement by the Active player, but that does not at all encourage wholly defensive strategies! I know you're probably saying that tongue in cheek anyway, I'm just biting to defend my other favourite game. I'm not saying that Oldcromunda couldn't be fun, just that Overwatch was a negative mechanic. Maybe you had better experiences with your gaming group than I did. I agree that Newcromunda is significantly powered up in terms of both stats and weaponry. I personally like that when it comes to variety of modelling and play experiences, but I agree it can escalate into ridiculousness quite quickly. All too often in the end of our campaigns it just comes down to 2+ to-hit rolls with lascannons and melta guns. I do think that Newcromunda has a workable balance between close combat and shooting, simply because it's so much more decisive to get into close combat with better fighters. But they are different games, in theme as well as mechanics. Have you been playing much Newcromunda?
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May 13, 2022 14:40
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Welp, this kickstarter just ended and I am in for 23 Ork units so I guess I am building an ork force for warmaster. Any advice on an effective 3k build that I can get a start on? I am thinking about a Mongol horde type deal with the minimum infantry and a lot of high-mobility units. Highly recommend this guy's dark elves, too. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leonswerk/tribal-orc-and-goblin-miniatures-for-10mm-scale-wargaming?ref=activity
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May 13, 2022 15:55
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Genghis Cohen posted:Haha, in fact Infinity vastly favours the Active player over the Reactive. Partly because you can use the full Burst value of your weapons, but just as much, or in combination with that, you have control over where on the board, ie between what models, the interactions are happening. Yes models in Infinity all react to movement by the Active player, but that does not at all encourage wholly defensive strategies! I know you're probably saying that tongue in cheek anyway, I'm just biting to defend my other favourite game. I wasn't trying to make a case that Oldmunda could be fun - the fact that a community enthusiastically kept it alive for many years speaks for itself. (There were dozens of us... Dozens!) My point was that in the context of the old game's balance, Overwatch was not a bad mechanic. I wrote a bunch of words before that I'm happy with as making my point so I'm not going to keep beating this drum. Anyway. Newmunda frustrates me primarily because I feel like the game has lost the atmosphere of leading a bunch of desperate, ill equipped losers and feels more like fielding a squad of paramilitary fighters in a proxy war. Rules-wise, I strongly dislike the purchasing of advances, and the phenomenal bloat in terms of items and weapon keywords in my opinion consistently has eroded the initially strong basic game that was in the core rules. Also the maddeningly inconsistent way that rules with the same name would be repeated with different language across different books. I felt that it was a pretty good game at its core but the sloppy writing makes it very hard to love. I think I stopped playing around the time of Book of Ruin. And yes, the Infinity quip was definitely tongue in cheek 
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May 13, 2022 16:48
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Agreed with the gangs not feeling like Gangs anymore. It's too easy to get ahold of top grade gear and then have all your champions/gangers equipped with the optimal stuff. If I ever run a campaign, I'm tempted to limit non-basic weapons to 1 or 2 of each per gang just to get more variety in use.
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May 13, 2022 21:49
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Have any of you tried out Goonhammer's custom Necromunda supplement Lost Zone? I haven't myself but apparently its supposed to restore some of the oldcromunda feeling of desperation to the gangs.
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May 13, 2022 22:02
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despite the ash wastes box price, the Dustback Helamites seem to be a winner, since I've stumbled across, already, three different conversions, one for the Imperial Guard, one for the skaven(jezzails) and one for Kings of War
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May 14, 2022 01:10
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Well they are giant bugs with weirdo riders. If this isn't a mini that gets everyones wheels spining I don't know what is.
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May 14, 2022 07:41
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Virtual Russian posted:Sounds like a great problem to have! I've only got one person into it in my local area so far, but there is also a huge epic scene here. If either of you are in the Bay Area, take a +1. I've found my old orks and am fixing my 3d printer this weekend. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggghhhh
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May 14, 2022 09:33
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Covermeinsunshine posted:Well they are giant bugs with weirdo riders. If this isn't a mini that gets everyones wheels spining I don't know what is. Yeah, I'm eying them for my AdMech
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May 14, 2022 16:13
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https://spruesandbrews.com/2022/05/14/adeptus-titanicus-dire-wolf-heavy-scout-titan-unboxing/ The new AT scout titan is up for preorders from FW and seems a lot better than in the official GW articles. Looks like decent rules and the model is more flexible than the single ED-209 pose they previewed. With the previous eye-gouging pricing on other Titanicus resin models I was expecting at least £50 for this, but instead it's just under the cost of the plastic Reaver. Pretty reasonable for Forge World. I guess GW learned that £44 for a single knight model was a bit much and actually want to sell the Dire Wolf.
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May 14, 2022 22:19
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mllaneza posted:If either of you are in the Bay Area, take a +1. I've found my old orks and am fixing my 3d printer this weekend. We are canadians.
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May 15, 2022 11:28
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Painted the last 4 members of my gang for now 
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May 15, 2022 17:38
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mllaneza posted:If either of you are in the Bay Area, take a +1. I've found my old orks and am fixing my 3d printer this weekend. I moved out of San Jose last year, sadness.
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May 15, 2022 21:59
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working mom posted:Painted the last 4 members of my gang for now lol i love seeing those old 90s models, they look great!
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May 15, 2022 22:02
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the over the shoulder coat is so cool I'd love to see that model modded into a commissioner somehow
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May 15, 2022 23:02
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Squats get battle suits in Necromunda https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/16/the-squats-make-battlesuits-out-of-mining-equipment-and-corpses-out-of-other-gangs/ 
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May 16, 2022 15:14
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Hihohe posted:Squats get battle suits in Necromunda Huh. I wasn't feeling the squat gang minis at all... But I'm feeling this??
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May 16, 2022 15:42
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It doesn't feel v necromunda to me.
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May 16, 2022 15:50
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