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By too much credit I mean too much importance. I don't think they've had any real impact on the larger discourse, outside of helping some toxic fans stew in their toxicity better.
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May 14, 2022 21:53
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Blood Boils posted:I mean, I'm saying they are popular and fun but not very good at being critics. Doesn't seem like too much credit. Wait, what’s wrong with Ellis’ Hobbit videos?
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May 14, 2022 22:15
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thrawn527 posted:Wait, what’s wrong with Ellis’ Hobbit videos? "hobbit" is a slur
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May 14, 2022 22:25
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thrawn527 posted:Wait, what’s wrong with Ellis’ Hobbit videos? Nothing, her standard of criticism is so wildly above that of RLM that it's a mad comparison.
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May 14, 2022 23:16
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The weird thing about this is that Simon Pegg basically agrees with all this.
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May 15, 2022 09:25
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Simon Pegg wrote it. Its literally what he believes.
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May 15, 2022 10:02
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It's not wrong, the prequels sucked. The sequels being somehow worse does not make the prequels any better.
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May 15, 2022 10:11
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thrawn527 posted:Wait, what’s wrong with Ellis’ Hobbit videos? There's maybe 10 minutes of actual criticism of the hobbit movies in probably 2+ hours of video, and most of that criticism is really weak stuff, similar to rlm's. Like one example; comparing the Aragorn takin' a little tumble off the cliff scene with the Bombur Barrel Bounce and saying the former has tension and the latter does not, with no further elaboration. It's not hard to figure out why the hobbit scene lacks tension, there's no danger, but it's unclear why she thinks the 2 towers scene does: did anyone think Jackson was gonna drown Strider off camera in the middle of the story? The bulk of the 3 videos is spent describing how much the LOTR meant to her (which is fine enough if that's of interest to you) and the irl production woes (it's good to inform fans about Jackson and other execs anti-labor efforts). I assume she meant to imply that the troubled making of the movies had the effect of making the movies themselves bad, but I can't recall any solid links being drawn. Blade Runner was a troubled production for example, but that's irrelevant to whether it's a good or bad film. stev posted:Nothing, her standard of criticism is so wildly above that of RLM that it's a mad comparison. Ellis' sense of humor is less crude, and her politics are better, but her level of criticism is basically the same: working backwards from a conclusion, appeals to (dubious) storytelling "rules", inconsistent standards, poorly defined terms, etc. She seems like a relatively smart & nice person! I genuinely laughed at a couple of her Gandalf jokes! And like with rlm's prequel vids, it's not her fault so many nerds use her hobbit reviews as "proof" for their opinion being correct - it's just the unfortunate state of our art/media literacy. Fwiw I'd say Ellis has more potential to improve than the rlm boys. It's hard to imagine them ever approaching hbomb's level, but with some analytical sharpening she could. Mechafunkzilla posted:"hobbit" is a slur No, that's "halfling"
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May 15, 2022 10:12
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Did Ellis ever recover from doubling down over Raya?
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May 15, 2022 10:56
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She's quit youtube due to constant harassment, yeah.
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May 15, 2022 11:04
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She went after me because I said her book sucked, so, I appreciate her dragging my dumb rear end into the Internet culture wars.
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May 15, 2022 13:06
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Blood Boils posted:
RLM doesn't pretend it's anything other than what it is. Being better critics would not improve their content. Is Hbomberguy the guy who did a video criticizing another reviewer for using a kind of item Dark Souls 2 gives you in droves and which gives you a big advantage, based on the notion that a different game disincentivizes it? Spermando fucked around with this message at 13:25 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 13:22
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Blood Boils posted:There's maybe 10 minutes of actual criticism of the hobbit movies in probably 2+ hours of video, and most of that criticism is really weak stuff, similar to rlm's. Would you say she stretched a short critique that could've been one video into a 3 part monstrosity?
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May 15, 2022 13:53
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Spermando posted:RLM doesn't pretend it's anything other than what it is. Being better critics would not improve their content. I agree with the first, that's why I keep saying it's not their fault their vids became gospel to prequel haters. Absolutely disagree with the second, that's crazy lol quote:Is Hbomberguy the guy who did a video criticizing another reviewer for using a kind of item Dark Souls 2 gives you in droves and which gives you a big advantage, based on the notion that a different game disincentivizes it? He does defend dark souls 2, but that doesn't sound accurate. Admittedly it's been awhile since I watched that one. You should check him out, he's very good! jisforjosh posted:Would you say she stretched a short critique that could've been one video into a 3 part monstrosity? No, I think the critique is largely missing. The length of a given essay isn't important, I am merely high lighting the fact there's very little in there of what the videos are often claimed to be by fans.
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May 15, 2022 15:36
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Almost Blue posted:The weird thing about this is that Simon Pegg basically agrees with all this. It's not weird. I think it's more likely he's just self-aware of how absurd his opinion about Episode I is and channels that energy into something comedic instead of being bitter or whatever.
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May 15, 2022 17:03
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keep punching joe posted:It's not wrong, the prequels sucked. The sequels being somehow worse does not make the prequels any better. Sucked is harsh but they're films for children that are far surpassed by an animated TV series produced after them and I think that says an awful lot. Nostalgia is powerful so many of those kids who saw the sequels will have a ton of fondness for them in 10-15 years.
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May 15, 2022 19:38
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I don't think it's the usual circumstance ITT because the forums trend more elderly, but I do think it's common that the prequel loving youths can't really separate the prequel films from the cartoons. Fair enough but it does mean conversations with them can devolve into talking past each other. I think this is especially germane with eg RLM esque criticisms about the lack of audience relatable/likeable characters. The youths spent like 20x more time with those characters and often don't completely separate that out
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May 15, 2022 19:46
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maybe relatable/likeable characters was always a dumb criticism
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May 15, 2022 20:51
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Don't get me wrong, everyone's welcome to feel that way, I just feel like it needs clarified whether that's really an opinion based on the movies alone or factoring in the clone wars multimedia experience sometimes
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May 15, 2022 20:59
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I'm middle aged and love the prequels on their own merits without having seen a full episode of the cartoons and only having read a couple comics There are dozens of us!!!!
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May 15, 2022 21:05
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I don't think the youth of today have had their minds frazzled by some gizmo to the point they can't remember the difference between films and cartoons to be blunt, needing likeable/relatable characters smacks of small-minded conservatism to me. for creators, it encourages weaker character writing; for audiences, it inhibits the development of empathy as a life skill
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May 15, 2022 21:08
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I can’t see how anyone ITT can even pretend to have a serious opinion about Star Wars until they’ve spent $8,000 on the fully immersive Disney resort experience to really get into the skins of those living in that galaxy oppressed by the Empire.
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May 15, 2022 21:11
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Every time I've tried to watch the cartoons I find them deeply embarrassing but I think the prequels are at this point the best of all of the Star Wars movies.
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May 15, 2022 21:45
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Yes attack if the clones is crazy good
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May 15, 2022 23:52
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I'm ambivalent on the CW cartoon but after recently watching all the prequels for the first time in 10+ years I'll defend TPM as being the most interesting of the prequels. It feels less like a prequel to the movies that exist and more like a revised version of the original mess of a script with as many bad ideas as he could fit into it. Tonally it feels less like a SW movie and more like...Krull, or something, like it's the prequel to a completely different series. It rocks.
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May 16, 2022 00:06
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I think it works as an inversion/deliberate retread, kind of like MGS 2 or some of the later Gundam series. There's a young boy, in a desert, destined for the life of a great warrior. In A New Hope, he's brought into that life by the abstract call of adventure. He makes a conscious choice to embark on it. In TPM, he's brought into it because he's a slave won in a gambling game, then taken in by a warrior cult that serves a decaying, stagnant government. The characters are forcibly recreating the hero's journey of the original and it obviously backfires on them. Speaking of reassessing the prequels, there was a reasonably successful video and/or article talking about the great series 'hidden inside' the prequels. All it really was was echoing a lot of criticism of the prequels, but assuming they weren't mistakes. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 00:48 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 00:46
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TPM looks nice. It is a nice lookin movie.
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May 16, 2022 01:31
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I did a critical reevaluation of the prequels a little while ago after having spent the tailend of my college years influenced by RLM's prequel reviews (circa 2009ish?). Those reviews informed my opinion on Star Wars so hard, and looking back it's super embarrasing to me. I loved the prequels as a kid -- TPM came out whe I was like 12 or 13? My first midnight show was AOTC, and by the time ROTS came out, I was a senior in high school; that midnight screening I saw with a bunch of my friends is something I remember fondly. RLM made me dislike something from my youth, lmao. In my prequel rewatch, and having spent the last several years engaged in really lovely film discouse lol, my main takeaway was that RLM actually kinda suck and the prequels are fine. TPM especially; my appreciation for that movie was grown immensely, especially wrt its aesthetics. Both the Clone Wars and Rebels series heavily played a part in reforming my perspective; those shows did a lot of heavy lifting to embellish/supplement what George was trying to do with the prequel trilogy imo.
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May 16, 2022 01:44
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teagone posted:I did a critical reevaluation of the prequels a little while ago after having spent the tailend of my college years influenced by RLM's prequel reviews (circa 2009ish?). Those reviews informed my opinion on Star Wars so hard, and looking back it's super embarrasing to me. I loved the prequels as a kid -- TPM came out whe I was like 12 or 13? My first midnight show was AOTC, and by the time ROTS came out, I was a senior in high school; that midnight screening I saw with a bunch of my friends is something I remember fondly. RLM made me dislike something from my youth, lmao. On the topic of aesthetics, there was a lot of discussion of how stuff was new and shiny because of CGI, instead of being a deliberate choice showing a very different point of the universe's history. It was amazing how hard it was to convince people that CGI is perfectly capable of creating a worn out, dirty ship and the ships were something else on purpose.
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May 16, 2022 02:16
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 Spaceship from the best Star Wars film.
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May 16, 2022 03:34
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All of Padme's spaceships are gorgeous. Top-tier Star Wars ships.
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May 16, 2022 03:35
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Snowman_McK posted:On the topic of aesthetics, there was a lot of discussion of how stuff was new and shiny because of CGI, instead of being a deliberate choice showing a very different point of the universe's history. It was amazing how hard it was to convince people that CGI is perfectly capable of creating a worn out, dirty ship and the ships were something else on purpose. I mean you literally have the entire podracing sequence made up entirely of worn out and dirty rocket chariots.
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May 16, 2022 04:13
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I like the prequels. Though I seem to recall the second movie is a bit dull? I thought TPM was a fine movie, with a good design language and some decent humor. Although Jarjar was a bit grating at some points. Like getting between the engines of the pod racer so he can go numb. But then we have the Gungan fight against the robots and yes, I did chuckle. Slapstick fights can be fun. But the decision that Anakin was a 9 year old boy will never not make me cringe. Irrespective of whether Jake Lloyd can act or not, it just seems weird.
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May 16, 2022 08:33
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Yeah I have come around on the prequels after being steadfastly a RLM-ist for years. There is a lot to like about those movies, and a lot of the complaints are dumb. Not RLM's fault the Internet ran with many of the sillier complaints they threw out there, I'd say. Amd then there are many things about the movies that are just rough to watch. Like a space gnu farting in Jar Jars face, and suchlike.
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May 16, 2022 08:41
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The overarching story of the prequels is outstanding. The execution is meh
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May 16, 2022 08:42
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Darth TNT posted:I like the prequels. Though I seem to recall the second movie is a bit dull? Eh, I think kid Anakin works in context of a story that's basically about your escapist nostalgia coming back to bite you. Anakin's a special kid swept up in a grand adventure and told he's the chosen one, and then he comes back some years later as a hunky unstable child soldier reluctantly indoctrinated into the janissary cult too late to fully give himself over to it, an underappreciated war hero slash living weapon. ...suddenly realising that Raiden from Metal Gear is basically Anakin. Which is probably on purpose. (while Big Boss is Darth Vader. And of course there's deliberate similarities between Raiden and Big Boss's arcs)
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May 16, 2022 10:38
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Captain Splendid posted:The overarching story of the prequels is outstanding. I wouldn't say meh, I'd say clunky and uneven. But also fascinating and cool and consistently engaging.
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May 16, 2022 11:01
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Guy A. Person posted:I can’t see how anyone ITT can even pretend to have a serious opinion about Star Wars until they’ve spent $8,000 on the fully immersive Disney resort experience to really get into the skins of those living in that galaxy oppressed by the Empire. i'm going to spend that amount of money but instead be one of the oppressing guys
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May 16, 2022 11:29
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I don't even know if the Prequels are good or not but they're pretty clearly extremely similar to the original films in a lot of ways, and the attempts to diagnose what "went wrong" with Lucas feel very misguided because of that. He's always been like that!
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May 16, 2022 12:33
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I think if you'd had anyone other than George directing the actors a lot of problems with the prequels would've gone away.
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May 16, 2022 12:39
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