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Cease to Hope posted:nobody is saying azov battalion aren't white supremacists regrettably, inaccurate, there's a large number of people out there willing to say that no actually they're just Ukranian patriots and suggesting otherwise is Russian propaganda. is there a more specific subset of everybody you have in mind?
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May 15, 2022 19:07
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Best Friends posted:The argument is that you can’t say the “heroes of Azovstal” (Azov battalion) aren’t actually white supremacists when they proudly wear the sonnenrad while saying the shooter is a white supremacist in part for proudly displaying the sonnenrad. Liberals at large are trying to make some distinction between these two similar belief systems with identical symbols. Liberal mods in this forum have gone so far as to prohibit any discussion of Azov’s views, while very much not prohibiting celebration of their acts. Who said that? I don't see anyone saying *anything* more 'forgiving' than 'that is a white supremacists symbol, not exclusively an Azov symbol, Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:that is not, in fact, the argument. it is a continuation of something the left has been saying since well before D+D had its whoopsie-donated-to-the-Bandera-Appreciation-Society moment. you are not required to support fascists in order to accomplish a short term political goal. Using Azov and Ukraine interchangeably is not a really valid or truthful.
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May 15, 2022 19:10
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:regrettably, inaccurate, there's a large number of people out there willing to say that no actually they're just Ukranian patriots and suggesting otherwise is Russian propaganda. is there a more specific subset of everybody you have in mind? okay go find a thread where people are saying that rather than making GBS threads up this one with more posts where you use "nazis" as shorthand for ukraine
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May 15, 2022 19:11
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The people uncritically saying the Azov battalion are unproblematic patriots are all members of the US security infrastructure who will accept anything if it gives Russia a black eye, and none of them post here
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May 15, 2022 19:13
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DarkCrawler posted:The reasons why my philosophy is rejected is not because of strength of arguments or the concrete effect it would and has had on societies (proven in the same thread) but emotional and personal. Everyone's hysterical but you, got it in one. Anyway, I did read those paragraphs of texts of yours, most of them, and mostly what I saw was dismissal of analyses, be it religious or material, and this thread continues the same, with you dismissing philosophic traditional ones as well, which means that I can't even identify where I'd agree with you, because with an identity-based one or a class- based or what have you, I could, but I'm left instead with your constant insistence that fascism is only promulgated in this society through the weakness of liberals and socialists daring to associate with conservatives. Will this lead to a Nietzschean argument? Or will you disavow that too. See, I think you're afraid that I'm trying to pigeonhole you into some monstrous ideology so I can dismiss you, but in reality, I don't care what you believe in, I just wish I knew what it was beyond surface distaste of conservatism. It's not that I find your thoughts evil, no, worse - I find them shallow. JT Jag posted:Hey folks, just got here but I have a hot take: the events in Buffalo are bad and so is white supremacist fascism It's really hosed, and the inclusion of streaming is leaving me with a real sickening feeling just like Christchurch. There's a lot to analyze there, the idea of this as a social experience, which I think has far more to do with it than any feeling of disempowerment. Driving hours to an area that has no electoral impact on you, to manipulate a loophole in local gun ordinances, none of that really gels with actually thinking you're being "replaced" by minorities who have power over you. It's all an excuse to find meaning, and the only society people have is cultural. I'm reminded of that tweet of the person who gave up fascism when they discovered V-tubers, and while it's entirely possible that was just a shitpost, it really does make me think people sink into this stuff for lack of any meaning in life, and with a proper civic initiative, a Deal of any novel kind... but in the meantime, people are without their fathers, mothers, son, and daughters, and I just feel nauseous inside.
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May 15, 2022 19:15
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Like if you want to say 'Ukraine has a lovely wannabe Nazi group among it's soldiers' that is 100% accurate. It is also true, with some variation' of every military worldwide because shockingly people like that are drawn to military service. Trying to connect it to Ukraine is an absurd loving stretch considering there are plenty of American military soldiers who fit the bill.
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May 15, 2022 19:18
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Cease to Hope posted:nobody is saying azov battalion aren't white supremacists https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/azov-battalion-we-are-patriots-were-fighting-the-real-nazis-of-the-21st-century-sdccf0w9t https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/04/07/what-is-azov-regiment-honest-answers-to-the-most-common-questions/ And then of course there is the tweet thread that started this discussion. More broadly, the “heroes of azovstal” are the big cause in western liberal circles right now. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-band-makes-plea-mariupol-eurovision-final-2022-05-14/ quote:"Please help Ukraine, Mariupol. Help Azovstal right now," lead singer Oleh Psiuk shouted from the front of the stage in the Italian city of Turin after the band performed its song "Stefania".
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May 15, 2022 19:19
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Cease to Hope posted:lemme know when you run into the liberal saying that fascists are okay to support, ideally without needing to say that "ukraine" is synonymous with "fascists" No one really says they're "ok to support" but you have to admit that there's a lot of "we need to understand and reach out to them" poo poo that works its way into the political discourse. Because they're people too and all but gently caress that. I mean, they ARE people and that is true but I draw the line at meeting any fascist halfway (or any way at all) and loathe politicians and everyday people or posters who try or think it's productive reaching out to them in any way. I can understand how they got to where they are and why they're mad about poo poo but there's no middle ground to carve out with them ANYWHERE and they can all burn to death in a fire for all I care.
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May 15, 2022 19:21
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Willa Rogers posted:Ugh, I'm not going to blame people of color for the long tradition of white racism, even when it's among white liberals. The crosstabs for this are pretty opaque because of the weird "conspiratorial thinkers" divide, but you can establish that a not-insignificant number of non-white folks have very negative views of immigrants. For some reason they don't do a direct breakdown of the Great Replacement question by white vs non-white, but on page 17 they have breakdowns for questions like "there's a major risk that illegal immigrants will commit crimes in the US" is 33% for non-white folks overall (working backwards from their definition of conspiratorial thinkers being grouped based on the 75th percentile and a statement that the low and high conspiratorial thinkers are ethnically and racially similar). https://apnorc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Immigration-Report_V15.pdf I'm not really sure how seriously to take any particular number seriously as representative - the sample is likely biased relative to the general population, so it's probably more useful to look at the relative numbers rather than the absolute. Specifically, they took responses from an online survey where participants could get $3, so there might have been people grinding it out as fast as possible adding noise to the sample - no single question had a response get less than 14% from a quick scan, so it might make sense to assume there is a floor due to the methods. They say in the methodology section that they removed ones completed in less than 1/3 the expected time, with 50% or more non-response, and with straight-line grids, but that doesn't exclude other patterns like going from left to right repeatedly, etc. One thing that the summary doesn't emphasize but which seems important to me is that the elderly are actually LESS likely to fit their definition of conspiratorial thinkers - the age group most weighted towards it is 30-44, while the 60+ category is weighted against to a similar degree. In other words, rather than the "Fox News Grandpa", the typical conspiratorial thinker is more like a parent with a school-aged child in terms of age
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May 15, 2022 19:23
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are you aware of which thread this is? whining about european liberals is pretty far off topic
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May 15, 2022 19:28
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Tbf sometimes I try and have something to say from an outsiders perspective, as I don't live in the USA. But I hope I don't come across like this. Also shallow attempts to help are at least attempting to help. We should all be reading more and developing looping more ofc, but it's good to help folks if you can.
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May 15, 2022 19:35
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Cease to Hope posted:are you aware of which thread this is? Yes, it’s the one in which this discussion started and where you asked for if anyone was saying the things I posted. (it’s also a thread where, unlike the Ukraine war thread, the mods have not prohibited discussion of whether Azov battalion is white supremacist). I could find plenty more sources from Americans saying the defenders of Azovstal are heroes and that Azov battalion is “complicated” if that would satisfy your request.
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May 15, 2022 19:38
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DarkCrawler posted:This by the way was a common problem in this thread, people completely unable to quote me on any things they claimed I was proposing (say, genocide) or being (included but not limited to being a fascist in disguise and literally demonic). You are mis-remembering the thread, DarkCrawler. No one called you "demonic," (I just double-checked to be sure). Instead, you made an argument that other posters having dinner with your parents is "satanist in practice": DarkCrawler posted:If this is what you live by, all power to you. To me it sounds more nihilist than anything I propose, and downright satanist in practice, but it sounds like a more decent lifestyle than say, the fascism exhibited by the people you and others continue to associate with. This is quite obviously not calling you demonic. In fact, it more clearly looks like you were implying that it was other posters who were demonic - not the other way around! I did, however, say that your argument for severing was actually cursed* and provided a hadith, ayah, and excerpt from a tafsir to make my argument for it, which I will replicate here for the benefit of people seeking wisdom: Quran (13:25) posted:"But as for those who break their bond with God after it has been established [in their nature], and cut asunder what God has bidden to be joined , and spread corruption on earth - their due is rejection [by God], and theirs is a most evil fate [in the life to come]." Me, lol posted:In case there was any doubt about what "cutting asunder what God has bidden to be joined" means, translator and sheikh Leopold Weiss / Muhammad Asad leaves this footnote to the ayah: If you can't even remember that it was you that brought the demonic into the discussion and not other posters, perhaps you should let that thread lie fallow.
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May 15, 2022 19:47
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ImpAtom posted:Like if you want to say 'Ukraine has a lovely wannabe Nazi group among it's soldiers' that is 100% accurate. It is also true, with some variation' of every military worldwide because shockingly people like that are drawn to military service. Trying to connect it to Ukraine is an absurd loving stretch considering there are plenty of American military soldiers who fit the bill. While I would say that I'm "on the left", much of the left's response to the Ukraine War has been very disappointing. Hearing arguments of "but there are Nazis in Ukraine and you support them? LOL!" when in reality in any conflict in world history has extremist sides, especially if it's a side that's a "big tent" so to speak. The answer to "why should other countries supply Ukraine if they have Nazis?" is easily answered by the Nazis make up a tiny fraction of those fighting, and it will be far easier to deal with that tiny fraction getting weapons as opposed to all of Ukraine ceasing to exist and being under authoritarian Russian control. Yes it seems like cutting piece of your nose to spite your face but that's what war is. And if that wasn't enough, the Russian side has plenty of Nazi battalions in their army too so...  This isn't even getting into the other arguments such as "why doesn't Ukraine secede the territory Russia wants and end the war immediately?" or "but the US made Ukraine pro-US/EU friendly when the citizens democratically voted in their new government!" Of course this isn't to say there aren't concerns with the conflict. Such as the soon to be near 100 billion spent on aiding/supplying Ukraine all the while the domestic economy here is disastrous for the average American and free healthcare, endling homelessness, and other issues seem like pipe dreams of "how are you going to pay for it!?" despite spending on them would be substantial less than the money given to Ukraine. And I'm not even going to get into Russia being prompted up as the new Nazi Germany grave threat of the 21st century when they struggle to (and maybe even can't) take over Kiev. And yes, a lot of these articles from "respected" publications such as the New York Times on some of these (totally not Nazi) soldiers come across as a modern version of this. What I'm trying to say is that the war is sort of a test for the left, and it's sad to see so many of them failing it due to siding more with Ukraine with Russia means in their minds "siding with the United States and Capitalism, which is undoubtably bad no matter the context." punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 19:59 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 19:54
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BougieBitch posted:The crosstabs for this are pretty opaque because of the weird "conspiratorial thinkers" divide, but you can establish that a not-insignificant number of non-white folks have very negative views of immigrants. For some reason they don't do a direct breakdown of the Great Replacement question by white vs non-white, but on page 17 they have breakdowns for questions like "there's a major risk that illegal immigrants will commit crimes in the US" is 33% for non-white folks overall (working backwards from their definition of conspiratorial thinkers being grouped based on the 75th percentile and a statement that the low and high conspiratorial thinkers are ethnically and racially similar). This has a little bit of an "unskewing the polls" feel to it but I get looking at cross tabs and things and studying methodology so I dunno. But a poll revealing that something like 1 out of every 4 democrats have racist tendencies doesn't hit me as all that far out of bounds. I mean, I have racist tendencies but work hard not to, you know?
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May 15, 2022 19:54
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The conservative voting base is moving away from Trump and is primed for the next GOP fascist in line They aren't going to vote for Diet Trump when Trump is on the (e: primary) ballot though, I don't care what this poll says. They probably didn't count all the folks that screamed "TRUMP!" into the phones and hung up like in 2016. Bellmaker fucked around with this message at 20:05 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 20:00
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regressives will vote for what ever is on team R in the general.
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May 15, 2022 20:04
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punk rebel ecks posted:The answer to "why should other countries supply Ukraine if they have Nazis?" is easily answered by the Nazis make up a tiny fraction of those fighting, and it will be far easier to deal with that tiny fraction getting weapons as opposed to all of Ukraine ceasing to exist and being under authoritarian Russian control. I question the relevance of this number, especially in light of the Afghanistan analogy and what a small % of the population the Taliban is and I question the willingness of the US and it's MIC to "deal with" anything after the Russian army is repelled. See also: Israel. Otherwise I generally agree with everything you said and this is a good post. It's a complicated issue and people mostly don't deserve to be pelted with vegetables about it.
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May 15, 2022 20:11
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punk rebel ecks posted:While I would say that I'm "on the left", much of the left's response to the Ukraine War has been very disappointing. The thing is, it shouldn't matter if Ukraine was fascist or not, they shouldn't be the recipient of billions of dollars of military aid because rarely has us funneling weapons anywhere in the world done well. America can not act as arbiter of every country's nuclear ambitions and then turn around and act as the weapon's dealer of the world, it sends a clear message that the US wants to destabilize the world for its own profit because it knows it has the reliable safety of a nuclear stockpile to back up its security. If America turned around and gave billions of dollars to Palestine in arms, it would not be a good thing. Those arms aren't for free either, so it's very much a practice of debt slavery for the Eastern Bloc (which is NATO's main ambitions anyway) that has no Ukrainian interest in mind anyway. There is no real hero in this war, but most of the left agrees on that anyway, with very few people believing denazification is a legit casus belli for Russia. Even if Ukraine was completely Nazi, it's not Russia's job to "liberate" them any more than it was America's job to liberate Iraq from a dictator like Saddam. But that's the thing, with all that said, there is still a visible and clearly influential fascist movement in Ukraine, and after watching liberals insist that any protest that had one Nazi flag was a fascist protest (which I don't disagree with) then go on to shrug about a parliament with a significant fascist minority... that feels very much like an incoherent philosophy. It should not be this easy to take a side in this conflict, and the irritating lack of even seeming neutrality from certain moderators in this space is frustrating. There was never a pinned charity thread here during the Sudanese civil war, for example. But no, Russia is not a good actor, is not justified in its invasion efforts just as any empire is justified in its invasion efforts. It's just also that NATO is not justified in its existence, America's support is not justified, etc. It's World War I all over again: There is no winner. Probably Magic fucked around with this message at 20:17 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 20:14
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PhazonLink posted:regressives will vote for what ever is on team R in the general. Of course they will, but how motivated will the 5% of people who may / may not vote be to actually show up? They didn't show up for Romney, or for McCain. They showed up twice for Trump (but not in 2018).
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May 15, 2022 20:31
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Probably Magic posted:The thing is, it shouldn't matter if Ukraine was fascist or not, they shouldn't be the recipient of billions of dollars of military aid because rarely has us funneling weapons anywhere in the world done well. America can not act as arbiter of every country's nuclear ambitions and then turn around and act as the weapon's dealer of the world, it sends a clear message that the US wants to destabilize the world for its own profit because it knows it has the reliable safety of a nuclear stockpile to back up its security. If America turned around and gave billions of dollars to Palestine in arms, it would not be a good thing. Those arms aren't for free either, so it's very much a practice of debt slavery for the Eastern Bloc (which is NATO's main ambitions anyway) that has no Ukrainian interest in mind anyway. I should have made this more clear, but my stance is that the United States shouldn't be giving Ukraine any type of aid, especially since that money would be better served at helping the American people. Let Europe handle Russia, a country that is so weak and dysfunctional that they struggle to take over arguably the poorest country in Europe. Probably Magic posted:There is no real hero in this war Probably Magic posted:There is no real hero in this war, but most of the left agrees on that anyway, with very few people believing denazification is a legit casus belli for Russia. Even if Ukraine was completely Nazi, it's not Russia's job to "liberate" them any more than it was America's job to liberate Iraq from a dictator like Saddam. But that's the thing, with all that said, there is still a visible and clearly influential fascist movement in Ukraine, and after watching liberals insist that any protest that had one Nazi flag was a fascist protest (which I don't disagree with) then go on to shrug about a parliament with a significant fascist minority... that feels very much like an incoherent philosophy. It should not be this easy to take a side in this conflict, and the irritating lack of even seeming neutrality from certain moderators in this space is frustrating. There was never a pinned charity thread here during the Sudanese civil war, for example. But no, Russia is not a good actor, is not justified in its invasion efforts just as any empire is justified in its invasion efforts. It's just also that NATO is not justified in its existence, America's support is not justified, etc. It's World War I all over again: There is no winner. I agree with you that the hypocrisy is very amusing. The Middle East and Africa are filled with conflict, yet nobody gives a poo poo. People didn't even give a poo poo about Yemen until Bernie Sanders brought attention to it. That said there still are things that just seem odd. The "fascist movement" in Ukraine is weak to the point where it got barely 2% of the vote. One could argue that there is a stronger fascist movement in the United States. Yet if the United States was invaded by a hypothetical Russia that had more military might than the U.S. in order to "denazify" the country , it's obvious which nation is "in the wrong". This is Ukraine's fight and much of the left falling into the trap of seeing at as a pawn played in America's and Russia's chess game because Ukraine became America's piece eight years ago is very disappointing.
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May 15, 2022 20:33
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People still don't give a poo poo about Yemen
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May 15, 2022 20:39
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Probably Magic posted:The thing is, it shouldn't matter if Ukraine was fascist or not, they shouldn't be the recipient of billions of dollars of military aid because rarely has us funneling weapons anywhere in the world done well. America can not act as arbiter of every country's nuclear ambitions and then turn around and act as the weapon's dealer of the world, it sends a clear message that the US wants to destabilize the world for its own profit because it knows it has the reliable safety of a nuclear stockpile to back up its security. If America turned around and gave billions of dollars to Palestine in arms, it would not be a good thing. Those arms aren't for free either, so it's very much a practice of debt slavery for the Eastern Bloc (which is NATO's main ambitions anyway) that has no Ukrainian interest in mind anyway. Can you support the statement that NATO's main ambition is debt slavery for the Eastern Bloc? That's a hell of an allegation. Probably Magic posted:There is no real hero in this war, but most of the left agrees on that anyway, with very few people believing denazification is a legit casus belli for Russia. Even if Ukraine was completely Nazi, it's not Russia's job to "liberate" them any more than it was America's job to liberate Iraq from a dictator like Saddam. But that's the thing, with all that said, there is still a visible and clearly influential fascist movement in Ukraine, and after watching liberals insist that any protest that had one Nazi flag was a fascist protest (which I don't disagree with) then go on to shrug about a parliament with a significant fascist minority... that feels very much like an incoherent philosophy. It should not be this easy to take a side in this conflict, and the irritating lack of even seeming neutrality from certain moderators in this space is frustrating. There was never a pinned charity thread here during the Sudanese civil war, for example. But no, Russia is not a good actor, is not justified in its invasion efforts just as any empire is justified in its invasion efforts. It's just also that NATO is not justified in its existence, America's support is not justified, etc. It's World War I all over again: There is no winner. Not really. Ukraine gets a lot of support because it's a situation with a pretty unambiguous bad actor. There's really no good justification for Russia to invade, and so supporting the victim of this invasion is popular. That isn't to say that there isn't a huge amount of hypocrisy. There is, but as I see it there are other conflicts that should be treated the way the Ukraine conflict has been, rather than ignoring the issue. Pointing at the Asov battalion as a way to "both sides" is a bit like pointing at bad actors in the Soviet Union and arguing that Lend Lease was a bad idea and that we shouldn't have sent weapons and material. Just because the US is doing something doesn't make it automatically bad. DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 20:55 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 20:51
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BougieBitch posted:One thing that the summary doesn't emphasize but which seems important to me is that the elderly are actually LESS likely to fit their definition of conspiratorial thinkers - the age group most weighted towards it is 30-44, while the 60+ category is weighted against to a similar degree. In other words, rather than the "Fox News Grandpa", the typical conspiratorial thinker is more like a parent with a school-aged child in terms of age Isn't the 30-44 age group Fox News' strongest demographic? Or is just that the majority of that age group watches Fox News over the other two cable-news channels?
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May 15, 2022 20:55
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https://twitter.com/katieglueck/status/1525927548714201088
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May 15, 2022 21:01
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^^^ Christ, does Lamb have a Russian mind gun in addition to a Carville-supported superPAC?Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The conservative voting base is moving away from Trump and is primed for the next GOP fascist in line I wonder if the split would be much different if Dems voters asked whether they considered themselves Biden supporters or Democratic Party supporters; I reckon that Biden's nos. would be lower than Trump's (which is part of why I doubt he'll be running for re-election). lol, I went looking to see if the poll asked that & came across this "don't blame me; I voted for Bernie" result instead: 
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May 15, 2022 21:04
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More from that NBC poll. This seems counter to York's tweet & those other results:  More proof that Bernie shoulda won:  The president that America yearns for: 
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May 15, 2022 21:18
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:People still don't give a poo poo about Yemen Congress actually passed "something" and for a very brief time some people did. Not anymore though. lol Willa Rogers posted:More from that NBC poll. Americans hunger for change is only going to get bigger as the economy gets worse for lower middle class and below, as well as Millennials and Gen Z gradually replacing Gen X and Boomers. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 21:23 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 21:21
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I'm President Disney
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May 15, 2022 21:29
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JT Jag posted:Hey folks, just got here but I have a hot take: the events in Buffalo are bad and so is white supremacist fascism Yes yes, but did you ever consider that it's actually liberals that are bad?
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May 15, 2022 21:53
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Rigel posted:Serious question: white supremacists and neo-nazis seem to have just.... a really weirdly enormous number of symbols associated with their movements and hateful philosophy. Why? It's arrested development. They need physical markers of approval because they have child brains still. Like Dwight on the office with his boyscout badges. They need outside approval from an authority that is easily recognizable to other idiots in their in-group. quote:In Dwight’s world, everything worth learning is teachable, and medals, certificates and formal membership in meritocratic institutions is evidence of success. Even where play behaviors are concerned, the Dwights of the world can more easily get lost in points-and-rules worlds. It is significant that Dwight has never seen/read Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (which is about creative-performance play), but is obsessed with gaming worlds and sci-fi/fantasy universes. The Sean fucked around with this message at 22:08 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 21:59
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Of course they will, but how motivated will the 5% of people who may / may not vote be to actually show up? They didn't show up for Romney, or for McCain. They showed up twice for Trump (but not in 2018).
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May 15, 2022 22:14
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Best Friends posted:Yes, it’s the one in which this discussion started and where you asked for if anyone was saying the things I posted. reading "nobody [in this discussion] is saying X" as "nobody [anywhere in the world, at any time, regardless of whether it's otherwise related to the thread] is saying X" is tendentious nonsense
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May 15, 2022 22:19
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punk rebel ecks posted:Congress actually passed "something" and for a very brief time some people did. "Something" that got vetoed by Trump, and never bothered to do anything further after Biden got elected and announced that we were only gonna enable "defensive" genocide from here on out DeadlyMuffin posted:Can you support the statement that NATO's main ambition is debt slavery for the Eastern Bloc? That's a hell of an allegation. If you think there being an unambiguous bad actor is what makes the Ukraine conflict unique and is the driving factor in its support, you are either not paying attention at all or else you have just uncritically accepted US domestic propaganda regarding other conflicts in which there are absolutely unambiguous bad actors The biggest difference between Ukraine and other imperial victims has nothing to do with ambiguity or lack thereof, it's that Ukrainians are white
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May 15, 2022 22:27
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ImpAtom posted:Who said that? I don't see anyone saying *anything* more 'forgiving' than 'that is a white supremacists symbol, not exclusively an Azov symbol, I have a hard time seeing this any other way than a bad-faith attempt to misconstrue the point of leftists in this thread - not that the mods care (one of which contributed to the dogpile but has since become silent). cat botherer fucked around with this message at 22:36 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 22:32
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https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/1525947999314227202?s=20 This is terrible.
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May 15, 2022 22:34
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The mass shootings are extending until they merge into a continuum. There are no longer mass shootings, there is only the one mass shooting that no longer begins or ends
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May 15, 2022 22:37
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:"Something" that got vetoed by Trump, and never bothered to do anything further after Biden got elected and announced that we were only gonna enable "defensive" genocide from here on out
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May 15, 2022 22:50
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It amazes me how many ACAB leftists' view on Ukraine seems to be "stop resisting!" I never hear calls of "Russia should just withdraw from Ukraine," it's always "Ukraine should top resisting and other countries should stop supporting Ukraine because it will just prolong the war. Also, Ukrainians are Nazis."
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May 15, 2022 22:59
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| # ? May 28, 2024 07:46 |
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BiggerBoat posted:This has a little bit of an "unskewing the polls" feel to it but I get looking at cross tabs and things and studying methodology so I dunno. But a poll revealing that something like 1 out of every 4 democrats have racist tendencies doesn't hit me as all that far out of bounds. I mean, I have racist tendencies but work hard not to, you know? The specific claim isn't just "kinda racist", but rather "believes that motivated parties in the US are deliberately bringing in immigrants as a way to weaken native-born Americans". Specifically, the questions are: Do you agree or disagree with the following statement: There is a group of people in this country who are trying to replace native-born Americans with immigrants who agree with their political views. and How concerned are you that native-born Americans are losing their economic, political, and cultural influence in this country because of the growing population of immigrants? And the 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 is the number that strongly/somewhat agrees with the first and is extremely/very about the second, respectively. They pull out a separate number in the report summary that is the overlap of those two groups as "believes in Great Replacement", but either one of those individually is pretty racist in a straightforward way, not just like stereotyping but believing in some kind of monolithic other or thinking that immigrants as a whole are going to do something "concerning". I think it is also notable that on the first statement roughly a third responded "neither agree nor disagree", which seems relevant in terms of the methodology. I'm not going to pontificate about it, but basically a lot of this is reminiscent of the recurring astonishment when people get polled about angels, demons, ghosts, magic, etc - there's always some weirdly large batshit response rate even when you ask a question like "is water wet", and that's why I'm saying it is more productive to look at things in a self-contained way (within the bounds of the polling) instead of assuming that you can generalize the percentages to the population as a whole. Willa Rogers posted:Isn't the 30-44 age group Fox News' strongest demographic? Or is just that the majority of that age group watches Fox News over the other two cable-news channels? I went to check this and I think there might be some weird obfuscation on Fox's part there. Here's a result I get from a quick Google: https://deadline.com/2022/04/fox-news-cable-news-ratings-april-1235010435/ In terms of viewers, Tucker Carlson gets 3.39 million, but only 560,000 in the 25-54 demo. By extension, either there are a massive number of 0-24 viewers, or 60% or more of the viewers are 55+. The other shows all have worse or similar ratios assuming I can do math, so it certainly seems that as far as Fox News is concerned it IS for the olds. However, the people in the other survey who are clocked as conspiratorial thinkers are getting their news from social media, OANN, etc. In other words, the source of the problem for most of the "Great Replacement" stuff seems to be the internet, even though the framing for some of the reporting is focused on Carlson specifically. He might be the highest individual contributor to the problem, but in aggregate Youtube channels or Facebook shares are doing much more harm BougieBitch fucked around with this message at 23:28 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 23:14
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