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The Victorian to1930s mental hospital aesthetic is scary due to the implications on what happens there, which you associate with the Cybermen. The modern tech versions horror is from stripping of all humanity from you, including your body, voice, even thoughts as your brain is placed into a sterile tin can.
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May 15, 2022 16:28
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 Can't believe the Chumblies are back
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May 15, 2022 18:01
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The original pitch for the Cybermen is rooted in horror tropes that are inherently pretty ableist and it's very tricky to find alternatives that are still that kind of viscerally horrifying without getting in (deserved) trouble with disability advocates. The Dark Water Cybermen were abjectly horrifying as a perversion of the sanctity of death/don't cremate me, to the point that there were complaints! But a lot of people.have forgotten that due to the shadow of CyberBrig, or transformed that horror into outrage at the idea that, say, Amy and Rory got cyberized off screen.
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May 15, 2022 18:29
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There’s casting news for the 60th anniversary special that you’d be very hard pressed to avoid for the next year. https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1525898812467957764
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May 15, 2022 19:15
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The_Doctor posted:There’s casting news for the 60th anniversary special that you’d be very hard pressed to avoid for the next year. who are those people
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May 15, 2022 19:22
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I'm gonna be mad if those aren't their outfits thoughquote:filming scenes that are due to air in 2023 to coincide with the show’s 60th anniversary celebrations. Coincide...? So like...little prequel buildup teasers ala Time Lord Victorious having dozens of little offshoot things over various mediums to promote it? Vinylshadow fucked around with this message at 19:29 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 19:22
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Extremely mixed feelings right now.
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May 15, 2022 19:33
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If they wanted me interested in the next season, they’ve put a lot of effort into doing just that so far aside from “who’s running it”
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May 15, 2022 19:36
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bring back K-9 again. But full-time, this time.
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May 15, 2022 19:50
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I'm only going to be mad if this happens and we don't also see the return of Cribbins
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May 15, 2022 20:40
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You know what? I'm just going to come out and say it, I don't care that it makes me look like a brave and handsome risktaker with lots of money.... I'm looking forward to the next season of Doctor Who!
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May 15, 2022 21:54
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Jerusalem posted:You know what? I'm just going to come out and say it, I don't care that it makes me look like a brave and handsome risktaker with lots of money.... I'm looking forward to the next season of Doctor Who! I think anyone who agrees with this is brave, handsome, and also has many sexual partners as they prefer. I agree with your statement.
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May 15, 2022 22:04
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Jerusalem posted:I'm looking forward to the next season of Doctor Who! Me too, I'm just at the point where The Doctor has to humbly ask The Brigadier for help getting the TARDIS console out of a rubbish tip, while Liz Shaw laughs. I'll miss Liz, but I know we have Jo Grant to look forward to in the next season 
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May 16, 2022 00:48
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If nothing else, I expect another round of RTD Who to at least be interesting and often fun. That’s more than I can say about Chibnall’s run.
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May 16, 2022 00:49
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It felt like no-one was having fun at any point while making it.
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May 16, 2022 01:01
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DoctorWhat posted:The original pitch for the Cybermen is rooted in horror tropes that are inherently pretty ableist and it's very tricky to find alternatives that are still that kind of viscerally horrifying without getting in (deserved) trouble with disability advocates. Dark Water is a perfect example of how you could make Cybermen into something horrifying in a modern way, but even that just turned them into Action Robots for a lot of it. Sort of an inherent flaw of the base design, I think. I think the big issue of the original Cybermen is that they're inherently just EXTREMELY dated. They stem from an extremely of-the-time anxiety, and sure, you can go back to that well at times (like World Enough and Time) but without finding something new about its horror you either hold on to the superficially creepy parts or bang the drum of an anxiety that's been settled for decades. Pacemakers just aren't a haunting prospect anymore!
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May 16, 2022 01:41
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For me the true horror of the Cybermen has always been and probably always will be that they're just emptily going through the motions of being "alive". The whole thing was that they must survive (THEY MUZZZZT!) but in pursuing that, they completely lost sight of the original goal - the PEOPLE wanted to stay alive - and it became about continuing to exist at all costs, including the cost of no longer being "you" in any conceivable way, or even an individual at all.... hell, even a species. Cybermen have become so lost in a now meaningless imperative that they convert other races they meet in order to keep the population ranks up of "Cybermen" with no notion of what that actually means. It's also why I dislike stories where they seem to have a cohesive purpose they are working towards. Because they don't. They just muzzzzt survive and that is all. My ideal Cybermen story is one where humans or whoever are locked in a pitched battle with them and losing ground right up to the point the Doctor convinces the humans to cease hostilities and retreat a specific distance away from the Cybermen, at which point the Cybermen just.... stop. Because they're no longer under threat, their pointless survival is no longer jeopardized, and so they go back to simply existing without purpose or function beyond the very fact that they are. THAT poo poo is terrifying to me. Edit: Human Resources by Big Finish is perhaps the closest I've seen to that. The Cybermen aren't the aggressors (though at first they seem to be), they're just responding to a threat. It also includes the 8th Doctor asking the question I wish all Doctors would ask of the Cybermen. Cyberman: We muzzzt survive. 8th Doctor: Yes.... but WHY!?! Cyberman: ......................we MUZZZZT! Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 05:58 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 02:26
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At this stage, I think we need new Cybermen who aren’t based around body part replacement but rather brain and behavior modification. Something closer to the “turn humans into data storage” story. Make them about ideological survival first and foremost, a projection of the wrong application of “survival of the fittest” and linked to the idea that a competative “marketplace of ideas” guarantees that only the best ideas survive. Extract emotion from people and program them for ideological purity, versus what little is left of the Dalek’s focus on genetic purity. Make the body part replacement, if it happens, a consequence of the ideology and its associated sociopathic behavior.
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May 16, 2022 04:39
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Cleretic posted:Dark Water is a perfect example of how you could make Cybermen into something horrifying in a modern way, but even that just turned them into Action Robots for a lot of it. Sort of an inherent flaw of the base design, I think. Both Dark Water and World Enough and Time do pretty well at communicating the basic horror of the cyber process. WE&T obviously has BIll going through it, but while DW has some Iron Man Cybermen, there's also just a bunch of them wandering bewildered around a graveyard. Jerusalem posted:My ideal Cybermen story is one where humans or whoever are locked in a pitched battle with them and losing ground right up to the point the Doctor convinces the humans to cease hostilities and retreat a specific distance away from the Cybermen, at which point the Cybermen just.... stop. Because they're no longer under threat, their pointless survival is no longer jeopardized, and so they go back to simply existing without purpose or function beyond the very fact that they are. I was thinking this just the other day and wondering this HAD happened in a story already. You'd have to do it carefully so that the Cybermen just don't suddenly have object permanence, but I like the idea of Cybermen just chilling if their conversion quotas have been met or the species they're interacting with isn't compatible. One of the best things about The Tenth Planet is how chatty the Cyberman is. He's not really hostile until after he's been provoked. Also, "DELETE" is a loving terrible catchphrase and turns them into Daleks, But poo poo. Narsham posted:At this stage, I think we need new Cybermen who aren’t based around body part replacement but rather brain and behavior modification. Something closer to the “turn humans into data storage” story. Make them about ideological survival first and foremost, a projection of the wrong application of “survival of the fittest” and linked to the idea that a competative “marketplace of ideas” guarantees that only the best ideas survive. Extract emotion from people and program them for ideological purity, versus what little is left of the Dalek’s focus on genetic purity. If you want to keep the physical modification thing you could set it in a near-future story where inhuman augmentations are required for manual labor. As long as it's coerced/involuntary and the enhancements are things like a drill arm or a super-calculation helmet for McDonald's workers, I think you mostly avoid the pitfall of stigmatizing people who have prosthetic legs. Make the horror about the unwillingness and cold calculation of capitalism.
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May 16, 2022 04:50
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tbh I think you'd run into a bunch of problems if you tried to depict a version of the Cybermen that isn't anti-cyborg, anti-science, anti-trauma, etc. etc. that still treats the Cybermen as serious existentially aggressive villains. They're built to talk about a few specific issues really well, but they're not open for much flexibility on those issues. You get the odd exception -- Kroton the "good" Cyberman -- but that's not an approach lacking in xenophobia.
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May 16, 2022 05:20
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I mean, you can do the Cybermen as the ongoing process of eugenics, as opposed to the completed project of the Daleks. What if the Cybermen were outwardly still human, but were Peter Theil style vampires harvesting organs from an underclass. You could hide that they were Cybermen at all until a reveal point
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May 16, 2022 07:03
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I dunno if they're still Cybermen then, so much as more generic vampires or organ harvesters. I guess my problem is that there's still a central Cybermen-ness that goes beyond the organ harvesting, and part of that is the ironic dehumanisation -- there's a tragedy to becoming a cyberman, as opposed to just becoming the cybermen's lunch/stomach. There's an excellent New Adventure proposal probably still floating around the Internet, that was about the Vatican hunting down Cybermen, that would have combined Nazi hunter iconography with ecclesiastic concerns regarding the existence of the human soul after death, etc. Cybermen as vampires (and fascists), but examined through a lens that focuses on Christian suffering and (religious) conversion. Really interesting stuff.
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May 16, 2022 08:14
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Jerusalem posted:My ideal Cybermen story is one where humans or whoever are locked in a pitched battle with them and losing ground right up to the point the Doctor convinces the humans to cease hostilities and retreat a specific distance away from the Cybermen, at which point the Cybermen just.... stop. Because they're no longer under threat, their pointless survival is no longer jeopardized, and so they go back to simply existing without purpose or function beyond the very fact that they are. Would work well for a Cybermen in the far far future of a decaying universe. Determined to survive as long as possible so conserving all their energy beyond what is needed to deal with threats or acquire resources that could extend their survival time.
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May 16, 2022 08:29
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Senor Tron posted:Would work well for a Cybermen in the far far future of a decaying universe. Determined to survive as long as possible so conserving all their energy beyond what is needed to deal with threats or acquire resources that could extend their survival time. You've essentially described the Toclafane.
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May 16, 2022 08:37
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Which ironically from memory were originally written as a potential replacement for the Dalek in Dalek if they couldn't get the rights, right?Senor Tron posted:Would work well for a Cybermen in the far far future of a decaying universe. Determined to survive as long as possible so conserving all their energy beyond what is needed to deal with threats or acquire resources that could extend their survival time. Something I really dig about Tomb of the Cybermen is that the tomb itself, including the iconography and (from memory) the computer systems etc.... are all trappings that the Cybermen have created with purpose. They don't give a poo poo about branding or REALLY have a need for the systems in place above their cryo-chambers, that's all there as a honeypot to find intelligent beings they can then use to create more LIKE UZZZZ because they'd reached a point where their "population" had dwindled so far they were at threat of extinction (not realizing what they initially set out to save was already long dead). Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 09:41 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 09:37
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DoctorWhat posted:I mean, you can do the Cybermen as the ongoing process of eugenics, as opposed to the completed project of the Daleks. Kind of happens in The Harvest. Except they're a group of Cybermen who are trying to being converted back into humans, taking organs and flesh from a London hospital
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May 16, 2022 14:37
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Rochallor posted:Also, "DELETE" is a loving terrible catchphrase and turns them into Daleks, But poo poo. https://tenor.com/bC2U7.gif
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May 16, 2022 14:50
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What if the cybermen were augmented humans who signed up voluntarily but then got fully cyberconverted and became victims after they failed to pay monthly subscription fees for their new hardware and the villain is like "hahaha you should have read the end user license agreement muuaahahaha you must survive!".
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May 16, 2022 14:57
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Davros1 posted:Kind of happens in The Harvest. Except they're a group of Cybermen who are trying to being converted back into humans, taking organs and flesh from a London hospital drat. <scrubs through short story idea> Anyway, they’re now filming, with yesterday’s Tennant/Tate announcement timed so today’s filming didn’t leak out his involvement. Might be time to reactivate the spoiler thread? New costume?! 
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May 16, 2022 16:06
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The_Doctor posted:drat. <scrubs through short story idea> Spacepig when 
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May 16, 2022 16:20
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My idea for new Cyberman episode: Opening shot of a computer with an AOL chat window *door opening noise* *badalump* text appears in the chat: a/s/l? (yes I know someone on your friend list wouldn't be asking asl at that point, but that's the kind of missed detail I think is necessary for TV)
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May 16, 2022 16:32
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Khanstant posted:My idea for new Cyberman episode: Opening shot of a computer with an AOL chat window *door opening noise* *badalump* text appears in the chat: a/s/l? They're Cybermen, not Cyber-men.
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May 16, 2022 17:43
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You might want a spoiler thread since some extra casting was spotted there too.
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May 16, 2022 18:03
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https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorrwho/status/1526247114656952321?s=20&t=TqwDHG53MAUB2bfhiM23Dw
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May 16, 2022 18:43
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Szmitten posted:You might want a spoiler thread since some extra casting was spotted there too. We have one!
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May 16, 2022 18:47
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https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1526261204355887105?s=20&t=D8q-zY2jf95ZjywonDQ7QQ
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May 16, 2022 19:07
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Teek posted:https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1526261204355887105?s=20&t=D8q-zY2jf95ZjywonDQ7QQ I am kinda confused about this element from the cast announcement page (spoiled in case anyone wants to avoid discussion): "Yasmin Finney has joined the cast of Doctor Who playing the character of Rose and is filming scenes that are due to air in 2023 to coincide with the show’s 60th anniversary... Speaking of joining Doctor Who Yasmin says: "...I cannot wait to begin this journey and for you all to see how Rose blossoms. Get Ready.” Russell T Davies, Showrunner adds: “Life on Doctor Who gets brighter and wilder, how can there be another Rose? You’ll find out in 2023..." Is this just RTD not knowing any other character names to apply to companion characters? Or are they going out of their way to admit that they want to replicate the 10/Rose dynamic in RTD Vol. 2? Because if there's one element from that era that I don't want them to revisit, it's that, and if this is their plan right out the gate then I'm suddenly leery of the show's future again.
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May 16, 2022 19:59
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Come over to the spoiler thread if you want a possible explanation.
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May 16, 2022 20:05
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Oh, the TERF piss is going to be boiling tonight. 
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May 16, 2022 20:19
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TinTower posted:Oh, the TERF piss is going to be boiling tonight. 
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