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TheIncredulousHulk posted:If the US running guns for Ukraine happens to dovetail with the correct ethical, moral course, that's just simple coincidence, and if conditions shift in such a way that US interests no longer align with the correct ethical, moral course, the US is not going to make any effort to adjust to follow it because ethics and morals were never actually a US consideration in the first place. They would not "disregard" the ethical, moral course or any other similar verb, because it was always entirely orthogonal Okay, so your argument is that the US *is* doing the right thing, but for the wrong reason?
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May 16, 2022 08:17
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Mormon Star Wars posted:You are mis-remembering the thread, DarkCrawler. No one called you "demonic," (I just double-checked to be sure). Instead, you made an argument that other posters having dinner with your parents is "satanist in practice": Don't quote selectively. quote:Does this mean everyone should just do what feels nice to them because individual actions have no meaning? That the only possible good derived from abandoning fascists is whether or not it effects my mental health? I'm referring to satanism as a nihilist ideology. Satanists don't actually worship demons. quote:I did, however, say that your argument for severing was actually cursed* and provided a hadith, ayah, and excerpt from a tafsir to make my argument for it, which I will replicate here for the benefit of people seeking wisdom: Oh right, actually cursed not demonic. I'll admit that I mixed up one religious accusation towards me with other. They're not equally weird accusations, or anything. And it wasn't me who brought up said thread. Nor who brought up religion in the first place, unless you count using a slang term as that. Probably Magic posted:Everyone's hysterical but you, got it in one. Anyway, I did read those paragraphs of texts of yours, most of them, and mostly what I saw was dismissal of analyses, be it religious or material, and this thread continues the same, with you dismissing philosophic traditional ones as well, which means that I can't even identify where I'd agree with you, because with an identity-based one or a class- based or what have you, I could, but I'm left instead with your constant insistence that fascism is only promulgated in this society through the weakness of liberals and socialists daring to associate with conservatives. Will this lead to a Nietzschean argument? Or will you disavow that too. See, I think you're afraid that I'm trying to pigeonhole you into some monstrous ideology so I can dismiss you, but in reality, I don't care what you believe in, I just wish I knew what it was beyond surface distaste of conservatism. It's not that I find your thoughts evil, no, worse - I find them shallow. If you'd actually read my posts you'd know that I made a quite big post about where fascism rises and how it can be defeated which was not "solely about the weakness of liberals and socialists daring to associate with conservatives". This is your own, false intrepretration of what I wrote. I didn't simply "dismiss" said arguments beyond religious. I responded in full. This is again your own false intrepretration. You made the claim that my I "crave total isolation" and require "disenfranchisement" for my ideal to be reality. I said I already that I live in that ideal and no disenfranchiment is needed, and how this squares up with your (false) interpretation of my philosophy. You, as always in these cases, refused to answer, instead nitpicking a single thing that made you angry. Then you dropped the argument about "total isolation" and "disenfranchisement" completely, to wax poetic about how what I wrote is "shallow" without actually demonstrating why and claiming I didn't submit justifications for my ideology, though I did. Do you think that is somehow a less shallow way of arguing anything? Just dropping arguments without a word and alluding to someone's arguments being bad without actually demonstrating why? Epic High Five posted:What argument? You've not made an argument, you've made demands and elaborated that they are based on your opinion and feeling. Nobody here cares that you did it once, somewhere else apparently, and to no other satisfaction but your own. You came in here to make the argument, so make it, I asked a few specific questions and so did PM, that'd be a good place to start. There are many good reasons to cut someone out of your life, but specifically if you want it to represent a pro/anti-fascist binary, when has someone ceasing communication with their Trump voting grandmother hindered the march of Fascism in the west? And again, this is the claim that cutting out grandma is the complete and total summation of my argument about fascism can be defeated and that I have never mentioned any other political strategies tied to isolation of fascists and hatred towards them. Except I already did it here too, and in said thread. You asking this: quote:when has someone ceasing communication with their Trump voting grandmother hindered the march of Fascism in the west? Is again, trying to reduce my claim into something it isn't and framing the issue into me having to prove that one person cutting someone off is super important. No, one person can't achieve anything on their own. Do you want me to quote the several times I already said that? Here's one. quote:And no for the umpteenth time, individual action on its own doesn’t accomplish anything anywhere. So no, one person in society not associating with fascists does nothing. Is that clear enough? And I missed this question: Epic High Five posted:Oh so then the problem is one of gun control and not maintaining a contact list that passes sufficiently rigorous examination then? Pretty brave of you to undercut your own argument like that. Because yes, the problem of fascists and any other ideologues lashing out against society violently is definitely a problem of gun control if you don't have it. But let's frame my argument in regards to that. When it comes to the left in particular not being able to reach a position of power to do gun control, it is about its' widespread refusal to use political tactics that have worked. In effective propaganda particularly, this would require you to be mean to fascists. Something that clearly isn't happening due to the widespread acceptance of fascism and fascists in all levels of American society. So if the political class representing the left isn't hostile to fascism and fascists, it needs to be a bottom-up approach. This is very unlikely to be instituted by people who hang out with, love and deflect blame from fascists.
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May 16, 2022 08:30
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DarkCrawler, in the nicest possible way, please stop. No-one gives a poo poo about your none evidential musings about how fascism can be stopped by shunning alone. People have asked you questions about your points of view and you retreat into testerical musings on how they are all against you and are simply "unwilling to do the hard work". When people raise objections you shout, when people try to ask you to explain you complain. Every time anything approaching clarity on what you want people to do and how that will create the end result you want you return to saying "not like that". If not like that then how? If your not going to tell people how then what do you want? What you apparently want is to argue about something you don't actually understand on the internet. But please, do it on a tumblr or a blog where you can curate your own little area and stop inflicting this many words to say nothing. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 09:09 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 09:03
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DeadlyMuffin posted:Okay, so your argument is that the US *is* doing the right thing, but for the wrong reason? No? I didn't say that at all What I said was that it's possible that what the US is doing and what the "right thing" is here(which I've purposely avoided weighing in on for the sake of arguing from the same premise as the posters I've been responding to) could be in a state of temporary overlap(as defined by the posters who think gun running is the right thing), but if so, it's a product of coincidence and there's nothing binding the two together going forward and it shouldn't be understood as such I will use a goon analogy to explain if the distinction is still unclear: Say the gym and the Cheesecake Factory are in the same direction, but the Cheesecake Factory is farther away. The "right thing" might be to stop at the gym to exercise and then return home to drink a protein shake and eat some greens or whatever. You are technically driving in this direction, and depending on what point in the drive you're at, the path to the two destinations are functionally indistinguishable. But you are actually heading to the Cheesecake Factory to eat your sadness instead. Driving past the gym to reach the Cheesecake Factory is not the same thing as driving to the gym, and you are not going to stop at the gym by accident even if you're heading that way, because the gym is not what you left your dank gooncave to do The US is not "doing the right thing for the wrong reason." It is doing its own thing with no heed to the "right thing" and it's not going to see the "right thing" through even if(again, for argument's sake) its thing and the "right thing" have been in alignment thus far, because they will not be forever since they are different things
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May 16, 2022 09:11
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It's probably about time to wrap up the Ukraine derail. It's not directly linked to any specific current events and is a broader ideological-ethical-moral discussion the substance of which is not really covering new ground for D&D, plus we have a dedicated Ukraine/Russia thread already. If you don't like the rules and thread culture of the main Ukraine/Russia thread, you're welcome to resurrect the ClancyChat thread which is somewhat related (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3995624) or start a new one.
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May 16, 2022 09:31
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ElrondHubbard posted:Ukraine wasn't getting into NATO with giant territorial disputes and I don't think anyone ever proposed to station nukes there even if they were admitted. Oh, there were BIG hurdles to Ukraine joining; getting Turkey and Germany to vote for it would have been like pulling teeth. They were not insurmountable, though, and given the organization's lack of expansion in the last few years, plus constant rumblings from think-tanks and Washington, one could certainly be fooled. Even is it was a stable nation operating in good faith, and not a paranoid, wounded former empire like Russia. Nothing about this situation is a 'shining example' of anything. But hey, at least making things clear might add some stability. Whether or not a system this vile even deserves to be stable is another question, but hey, I'm considering that less war is better than more war. It at least seems more rational than this "Ooops, you stepped too far into this region where my secret service and NGOs were seeding freedom, down goes the government! That or we starve their population with a blockade/invade them to show what happens to those who stray" game. And as for the Solomon Islands, you might want to tell that to the Assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, who very specifically did not rule out a military response when describing the "potential regional security implications of the agreement not just for ourselves, but for allies and partners across the region.” And we all know US interventions are NEVER out of hand or genocidal! Just ask Iraq or Lybia. Just the finest diplomacy this side of Talleyrand. It's not like fraying empires take rash actions or try to make examples of straying nations in the periphery, right? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 16, 2022 12:58
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https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1526170656290783235 Reading this, it sounds like it's more based around housing supply overall, not subsidizing new housing to ensure it's sale price/rental price is affordable (which is what the headline gave me the impression of). But regardless, this definitely sounds like a great step and will hopefully help state/local governments move towards allowing/building more housing. Which we are in desperate need of nation-wide. Here is a summary of changes listed in the article: quote:Among the new policies announced Monday are steps to leverage existing federal funding to encourage state and local reform to zoning and land use policies, a senior administration official told reporters, via funding from the bipartisan infrastructure law and the Department of Transportation. A second official noted that the administration will take steps to improve federal financing mechanisms for manufactured housing, multifamily housing, and the construction and rehabilitation of single-family homes. Kalit fucked around with this message at 13:26 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 13:13
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PeterCat posted:Moved to next page. PeterCat posted:I'm reposting this as it got buried on the last page. The argument isn't about how much power leftists/left leaning politicians have, it's just about the views that many leftists on line and elsewhere are espousing in regards to the Ukraine war. I'm not sure that "was last post on a page" necessitates reposting. It's just kind of how forums work. I already acknowledged, and you quoted it, that I understood that you were talking about anecdotal situations that you claim to have experienced outside of the thread "on line (sic) and elsewhere" and that you were not discussing or debating people in the thread. Further elaboration was not needed. It might be best if you argue with the people saying things that you don't like where they post or say these things. Again, as you quoted me saying already, I acknowledged that you were not posting about what was being discussed in the thread. The Sean fucked around with this message at 13:54 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 13:29
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The Sean posted:How is the US the only government that could do this? There are no other countries that could do so? not even remotely close, no. Not even to within an order of magnitude of it, either. HonorableTB posted:What other countries can summon $32 billion dollars in military aid on a whim without bankrupting themselves? And then do that level of spending multiple times? China maybe? The EU as a collective? Good luck tho, Germany barely had anything to send at all. This is the result of relying on the American military umbrella for most of the last 50 years. china has essentially zero power projection ability (or, for that matter, military cross-globe logistics capacity). It's also a major priority of theirs, but they're only just starting and it takes a very long time to build up to
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May 16, 2022 13:53
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Is someone pouring too much salt into the Senate Democrat's cafeteria food? That is 3 Democratic Senators and 1 likely Democratic Senate nominee having a stroke in 2 months. All of them were young and two of them in great physical shape otherwise. https://twitter.com/ChrisVanHollen/status/1526027910783680513
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May 16, 2022 14:14
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The Havana Syndrome machine has been perfected, and aimed at the Democrat wing of the Capitol
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May 16, 2022 14:16
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Kalit posted:https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1526170656290783235 The leaning on local zoning changes by dealing/withholding money could be hugely significant or it could be nothing. The second part about changing federal funding for more multi-family housing and manufactured homes/reducing the number of institutional investors buying single-family homes is going to be very significant, but only within those small categories. There's not a ton of houses being directly funded through HUD and even though institutional investors have been buying a lot of single family homes recently, they still only own ~1.5% of the single-family home market. That means even if that provision was effective in wiping out 100% of institutional investor owners of single-family homes, it wouldn't impact ~98.5% of houses. Very positive first steps, but the potential outcomes are going to vary wildly by region and housing type. Could be significant in some areas, but with just these changes you aren't going to see uniform changes across every region/market.
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May 16, 2022 14:21
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haveblue posted:The Havana Syndrome machine has been perfected, and aimed at the Democrat wing of the Capitol Well, at least they'll get good healthcare out of it.
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May 16, 2022 14:26
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Is someone pouring too much salt into the Senate Democrat's cafeteria food? based on his description it’s not a stroke. Obviously no telling what he was told/is disclosing tho
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May 16, 2022 14:29
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I know the "official" reason that vendors give for selling ghost guns is that they are "a kit and fun for a hobbyist to assemble; like a model ship," but this feels like the company that sells those single plastic roses in a glass tube that is shaped like a perfect crack pipe at gas stations in poor neighborhoods. Surely, they must know that lower-income areas with high crack usage aren't coincidentally buying tens of thousands of plastic roses every month, right? When your primary selling point for your kit is that they: quote:are untraceable firearms that are typically sold through unregulated sellers, without background checks, waiting periods, sales records retention, age restrictions or other restrictions. and somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of your product are used in crimes, then you have to know what's up, right? quote:In California alone, ghost guns accounted for 25 to 50% of firearms recovered at crime scenes over an 18-month period during 2020 and 2021, according to the County of Santa Clara Crime Lab. https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1526192205647454208
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May 16, 2022 14:35
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Somewhat related, but apparently Fox News is going with the theory that the Buffalo shooter was radicalized by violent video games because he streamed his shooting on twitch and "shootings have gotten worse since video games became realistic." Despite the existence of a manifesto that clearly outlines his white supremacist beliefs, basically quotes Fox News host Tucker Carlson word for word in parts, and states that he was radicalized online. https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1525974474234990594
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May 16, 2022 14:49
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The (one) reporter asks about violent video games, but the guy he's asking takes the "we need churches as community, not online communities" tack, so it's hardly "Fox News is going with the theory that the Buffalo shooter was radicalized by violent video games." If anything, the interviewed guy is reinforcing the idea that online hate groups aren't healthy, and led to the shooting.
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May 16, 2022 14:55
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Violent video games are too realistic. *Shows clips of quake 2*
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May 16, 2022 15:10
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Willa Rogers posted:The (one) reporter asks about violent video games, but the guy he's asking takes the "we need churches as community, not online communities" tack, so it's hardly "Fox News is going with the theory that the Buffalo shooter was radicalized by violent video games." The reporter brings up the causality of video games out of nowhere. This also isn't the only time Fox did it yesterday or today. Britt Hume was on and said that "video games turned shootings into mass shootings because they desensitize and glorify mass killings while training kids to carry them out." And another reporter that was interviewing Hume said that because he livestreamed the shooting on Twitch.com, that video games and streamer culture may have pushed him towards it. They are also really not discussing his manifesto or motives at all. They have mentioned his manifesto and replacement theory as a possible cause exactly as many times as they have video games. https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1526190794033577986
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May 16, 2022 15:11
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"Violent video games are making it too easy for people to carry out the very hateful things we preach daily without guilt" - Fox News.
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May 16, 2022 15:15
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The Supreme Court just ruled 6-3 in favor of Ted Cruz to allow candidates who loan their campaigns money to keep fundraising after the election to pay down the debt and to raise a limitless amount of money to pay themselves back; striking down the McCain-Feingold provision that limited the amount to $250,000 and limited it to the next election cycle. This was a case that Cruz purposefully set up by loaning himself $250,001 and then paying it all back with campaign funds. Ruling just came down. Don't see any articles yet. Edit: reading through the opinions and lol: Kagan writes in the dissent: quote:"allowing those payments to go forward unrestrained, today's decision can only bring this country's political system into further disrepute." The majority responds: quote:"Finally, the Government argues for deference to Congress’s “legislative judgment” that Section 304 furthers an anticorruption goal. Given scant evidence of corruption..." "This law has been successful in preventing candidates from engaging corruption and since it has been successful in preventing corruption, we see no evidence of corruption, and therefore no need for the law." Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 15:20 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 15:17
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CommieGIR posted:"Violent video games are making it too easy for people to carry out the very hateful things we preach daily without guilt" - Fox News. Instead of playing violent video games y'all should be watching the bow tie wearing fascists explain replacement theory.
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May 16, 2022 15:20
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Dang, the church members in socal tackled the gunman:quote:A gunman killed one person and wounded five others at a Taiwanese luncheon in a Laguna Woods church on Sunday, then was tackled by churchgoers who hogtied his legs with extension cords, officials said. https://www.ocregister.com/2022/05/...m_medium=social
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May 16, 2022 15:21
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This kind of meta-commentary always leaves me wanting; is the FOXosphere going to do anything and everything it can do obfuscate stochastic links to its programming? Of course it is. Now show me where the guy keeping track of the CNN/MSNBCosphere is keeping the tally of how many times either of those networks has framed the issue as one of the psychological impact of living in the dying imperial core creating everything from anomie to hostility within the whole of a population giving them cause to seek extremist positions and solutions as their material conditions degrade around them and the only one they're told to blame is the "other", whether that Other be The Jews, The Transes, The Russians, The Chinese, The Gays.......
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May 16, 2022 15:21
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Lib and let die posted:This kind of meta-commentary always leaves me wanting; is the FOXosphere going to do anything and everything it can do obfuscate stochastic links to its programming? Of course it is. I don't think that's fitting in a tweet.
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May 16, 2022 15:23
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The reporter brings up the causality of video games out of nowhere. This also isn't the only time Fox did it yesterday or today. Yeah, ok; I don't watch Fox News enough (or even at all) to get this sort of broad overview. This is context you omitted in your first post.
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May 16, 2022 15:23
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Lib and let die posted:This kind of meta-commentary always leaves me wanting; is the FOXosphere going to do anything and everything it can do obfuscate stochastic links to its programming? Of course it is. Its like people expect Fox News to react to more of the same outrage that's thrown at them on a near daily basis. Or that this is finally the time Fox executives gasp and say "my god what have I done". Something like 1/3rd of Americans believe that immigrants are being brought into America for more favorable election results and Fox will happily sell ads to those people between Tucker's 14 words segments. Shaming and pointing out hypocrisy have always been near-worthless tools for dealing with fascists.
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May 16, 2022 15:30
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The House GOP Conference Chair is either really bad at timing, or just doubling down on replacement theory the day after the shooting. https://twitter.com/EliseStefanik/status/1526169590841106432 https://twitter.com/NewAlaafinOyo/status/1526189352937725952
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May 16, 2022 15:34
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Willa Rogers posted:Kind of stunned at almost one out of every four Democrats being stone-cold racists according to that poll. Are you being sarcastic? Like Reagan Democrats have been a thing since... Reagan.
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May 16, 2022 15:51
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The House GOP Conference Chair is either really bad at timing, or just doubling down on replacement theory the day after the shooting. They still think Replacement Theory is a big winner for them so they're currently defending the shooting on Twitter with "What about Waukesha when a BLM leader screamed "DIE WHITEY DIE" while driving a semi-truck through a parade and killed a thousand children!?"
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May 16, 2022 15:55
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Oracle posted:Are you being sarcastic? Like Reagan Democrats have been a thing since... Reagan. No, I wasn't being sarcastic. Willa Rogers posted:Ugh, I'm not going to blame people of color for the long tradition of white racism, even when it's among white liberals.
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May 16, 2022 16:11
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Is someone pouring too much salt into the Senate Democrat's cafeteria food? How many of them had covid?
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May 16, 2022 16:28
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According to the poll demographic info, it isn't necessarily Reagan Democrats. Non-white Democrats are more likely to think that immigration will result in "native born Americans losing economic, political, and cultural influence." The vast majority of the total comes from white Republicans, but among Democrats, it is disproportionately people with lower education, incomes, and people of color. Not that surprising, because there has been a long history of "their taking our jobs" rhetoric around blue collar labor for a while. The AFL-CIO was extremely anti-immigration up until the 80's. There is also a perception that immigrants take lower wage jobs. Illegal immigrants generally do, but legal immigrants are much better educated and compensated than the average American. They tend to get mashed together into one entity when talking about immigrants and jobs, though. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:34 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 16:30
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Ted Cruz has killed any last vestige of campaign finance reform of McCain-Feingold. https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1526208168015147009 https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1526212313916788736 Love when senators make trojan horse lawsuits to affect laws instead of legislating them. The supreme court is an arm of the GOP at this point, and we need to pack that fucker with progressive judges. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 16:35 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 16:31
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Oracle posted:How many of them had covid? None of them. Well, none of them ever tested positive for it at least.
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May 16, 2022 16:33
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Ted Cruz has killed any last vestige of campaign finance reform of mccian-feingold. Yeah, as if we needed further proof that SCOTUS is effectively dead as a functional system, here it is.
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May 16, 2022 16:34
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The second part about changing federal funding for more multi-family housing and manufactured homes/reducing the number of institutional investors buying single-family homes is going to be very significant, but only within those small categories. There's not a ton of houses being directly funded through HUD and even though institutional investors have been buying a lot of single family homes recently, they still only own ~1.5% of the single-family home market. That means even if that provision was effective in wiping out 100% of institutional investor owners of single-family homes, it wouldn't impact ~98.5% of houses. Where did you pull this figure from? I've always found investor ownership of SFHs an opaque subject that is hard to get solid data on.
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May 16, 2022 16:39
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:According to the poll demographic info, it isn't necessarily Reagan Democrats. Non-white Democrats are more likely to think that immigration will result in "native born Americans losing economic, political, and cultural influence." Yeah, ok, that makes sense. I have heard a lot of resentment among black friends and acquaintances about immigrants competing for the same jobs and willing to do it for cheaper. Even African immigrants (which is a whole other kettle of fish). And I think a lot of it severely underestimates the animosity of various Central/South American countries for each other's inhabitants. We tend to lump them all together under the Hispanic banner but there are definite differences just like there are among European countries. A lot of people of Mexican descent in Texas hating on the most recent immigrants from C/S America as 'thieves' and 'gangsters' and what have you as one example. My husband's parents disapproved of him dating a Korean girl back in the day (they're Chinese) and her parents feelings were mutual. I think we're coming up on the limits of our understanding of racism when faced with the current reality of intra-racial bigotry and discrimination. Its becoming more like 19th century America where you had ethnic rivalries and established populations vs. the newly arrived. One thing that never changes is that every population of immigrants once established just can't wait to pull the ladder up behind them, sigh.
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May 16, 2022 16:46
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, as if we needed further proof that SCOTUS is effectively dead as a functional system, here it is. I know we are all pissing in the wind here, but it is time the Dems either pack the courts, reject/ignore the Supreme Court, or outright dismantle it. We are on the track to a complete fascist takeover and without direct action from the party in power the future in inevitable. Any talk that pretends to give legitimacy to the courts, including lip services or even discussion of the legal arguments, is to support the terrorists taking over the country. If one thinks that is too far, they should ask themselves what would be effectively different if the court’s reasoning was “gently caress you because I said so”.
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May 16, 2022 16:46
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I know we are all pissing in the wind here, but it is time the Dems either pack the courts, reject/ignore the Supreme Court, or outright dismantle it. Yeah I don't see a lot of positive outcomes between the Roe ruling and this.
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May 16, 2022 16:49
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