The US will lose WW3

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animist: Aug 28, 2018

Bar Ran Dun posted:

so does the navy still have this conceptual flaw in what it wants... yes probably

they're still making aircraft carriers lol

# ? May 14, 2022 20:00

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# ? May 23, 2024 03:18

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

Frosted Flake posted:

Just thinking back to Cold War US sub accidents and I�m going to firmly side with �steel quality matters�. USS Scorpion might have been structural failure, right?

i read a book 10 years ago claiming theres acoustic evidence for macho bullshit cold wars bumper cars that we know took place between russian/american subs on the day the scorpion was lost

# ? May 14, 2022 20:03

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

Cerebral Bore posted:

probably not that cold, actually. seawater reaches its maximum density at about 0�C, so in polar waters the water is actually at its coldest at the surface and the deeper you go the closer it gets to zero

right like it might be 50 below one day if they need to come up through an ice sheet to launch the missiles

# ? May 14, 2022 20:04

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

animist posted:

they're still making aircraft carriers lol

Aircraft carriers �work� doctrinally insofar as their purpose is to rapidly bomb small states or non-state actors within small states. Their stated doctrinal role in major power conflict has been obsolete since the 70�s with the Tu-22, and only increased with time and the potency of ASMs and those massive Soviet anti-ship missiles.

However, the Navy has engaged in magical thinking since the early 80�s to work around this, stating than an Alpha Strike from a supercarrier is a real thing that will happen in wartime.

# ? May 14, 2022 21:26

The Atomic Man-Boy: Jul 23, 2007

Regarde Aduck posted:

yeah i think sometimes his brain was kinda working right but the bit that controls his speech is mush for sure

I mean Trump is a dumb guy, but his saving grace was that his attention span prevented him from absorbing the logic of the MIC, even when they blared it at him. Thus he could reiterate extremely obvious ways the Great Satan is hosed up like �we kill people too,� �a trillion dollars for a plane that can�t fly is a bad deal,� and �the US being the only country to pay into NATO is a bad deal.�

Of course he�s too dumb, lazy, and greedy to do anything about it, which is why he left office getting banned on twitter as opposed to getting Dallas�d.

# ? May 14, 2022 21:32

Riot Bimbo: Dec 28, 2006

maybe we should just have a series of outwardly beligerent and stupid presidents to chaperone this decrepit and evil empire into its sunset years and prompt euthanasia???

# ? May 14, 2022 21:45

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Riot Bimbo posted:

maybe we should just have a series of outwardly beligerent and stupid presidents to chaperone this decrepit and evil empire into its sunset years and prompt euthanasia???

biden is basically emperor Tiberius, a weirdo ancient pedophile doing nothing from his palace. which means up next is Caligula :getin:

# ? May 14, 2022 23:23

Fish of hemp: Apr 1, 2011; A friendly little mouse!

Frosted Flake posted:

When a Chinese shipyard screwed up their carrier they executed the guy, so, you know

Well have they made a working aircraft carrier after that?

# ? May 14, 2022 23:29

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Fish of hemp posted:

Well have they made a working aircraft carrier after that?

2 in service 1 under construction iirc

# ? May 14, 2022 23:31

Ansar Santa: Jul 12, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

2 in service 1 under construction iirc

but do you really think their asiatic authoritarian mindsets can really produce a proper carrier like our free western ones can?

# ? May 15, 2022 06:10

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

it is only 2012 they could land on one.

that�s a lotta doctrine to work out in a decade

# ? May 15, 2022 06:18

Bar Crow: Oct 10, 2012

The Navy should have gone with figurative combat ships.

# ? May 15, 2022 06:37

Fish of hemp: Apr 1, 2011; A friendly little mouse!

A Russian troll farm posted:

but do you really think their asiatic authoritarian mindsets can really produce a proper carrier like our free western ones can?

No, I'm pretty sure their supreme collectivist communist morality will make them even unable to contemplate grifting and cutting corners to their own advantage.

# ? May 15, 2022 12:02

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Southpaugh posted:

is this one of those times hes right though?

Trump is a baby who sees things with innocent eyes so he's like "can you believe the korean war never ended? We should end it!" which is correct but he literally didn't know that until someone told him. That can be a good thing but also a very bad thing when he tries to nuke China

# ? May 15, 2022 17:10

Best Friends: Nov 4, 2011

Bar Crow posted:

The Navy should have gone with figurative combat ships.

lol

# ? May 15, 2022 17:29

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

Trump is a baby who sees things with innocent eyes so he's like "can you believe the korean war never ended? We should end it!" which is correct but he literally didn't know that until someone told him. That can be a good thing but also a very bad thing when he tries to nuke China

but hes donald the dove.

# ? May 15, 2022 18:51

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

Bar Crow posted:

The Navy should have gone with figurative combat ships.

rhetorical combat ships are the new fad these days

# ? May 15, 2022 19:58

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

the navy has laid down the new blackpill-class cruisers

# ? May 15, 2022 19:59

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

the navy doomscroller

# ? May 15, 2022 20:16

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

There is still a use for carriers outside bombing small nations, fighters can still launch their own anti-ship missiles and try to intercept other missiles but it is a numbers game.

The issue the US is having is not only many of its carriers need to be retired soon but tbh f-35 is a complete mess that has a sustainably low readiness rate while the US can�t buy more f-18s. In addition, the US is having to retire its cruisers and now is being distracted by the Russians.

Basically, the US� strategy in the Pacific is hoping Japan/SK/Australia do all the heavy lifting because the US doesn�t have the fleet strength to challenge China directly.

# ? May 15, 2022 20:46

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1525892925384601600

:staredog:

# ? May 16, 2022 00:17

Top Gun Reference: Oct 9, 2012; Pillbug

Fish of hemp posted:

No, I'm pretty sure their supreme collectivist communist morality will make them even unable to contemplate grifting and cutting corners to their own advantage.

correct

# ? May 16, 2022 01:28

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

Danann posted:

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1525892925384601600

Man that architect was either really subversive or really loving dumb.

# ? May 16, 2022 01:42

Facehammer: Mar 11, 2008

Or, y'know,

# ? May 16, 2022 01:43

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

I, L, H and U shaped barracks buildings are pretty common for reasons I can�t remember - something about hallways, so I can see trying to place 4 in a square block like that would lead to that, but only pre 1940 or whatever when nobody considered the combined shape.

# ? May 16, 2022 02:40

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

that�s Coronado and I think that building is from the 60�s

# ? May 16, 2022 03:00

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Bar Ran Dun posted:

that�s Coronado and I think that building is from the 60�s

so the architect was probably just a Hogan�s Heroes fan

# ? May 16, 2022 03:47

shove me like you do: Dec 9, 2007; Real Neato; Fun Shoe

If I'm remembering correctly that building didn't initially look like that, but there was an addition made to it that they did nazi coming.

# ? May 16, 2022 15:24

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

I remember reading of a town that planted a bunch of trees in the shape of a swastika in their forest during ww2. 50 years later someone notices these trees from a helicopter because they grew up. so the local town council pays to have the trees cut down, leaving a swastika shaped hole in their forest......

# ? May 16, 2022 18:04

Goast: Jul 23, 2011; by VideoGames

Rutibex posted:

I remember reading of a town that planted a bunch of trees in the shape of a swastika in their forest during ww2. 50 years later someone notices these trees from a helicopter because they grew up. so the local town council pays to have the trees cut down, leaving a swastika shaped hole in their forest......

the nazis did that loving everywhere they invaded, they are still found in the weirdest spots

# ? May 16, 2022 18:10

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

the trees turned red at a time of year. thats how they saw them

# ? May 16, 2022 18:25

yellowcar: Feb 14, 2010

Rutibex posted:

I remember reading of a town that planted a bunch of trees in the shape of a swastika in their forest during ww2. 50 years later someone notices these trees from a helicopter because they grew up. so the local town council pays to have the trees cut down, leaving a swastika shaped hole in their forest......

i learned about it from a ytmnd meme lol

# ? May 16, 2022 21:41

Southpaugh: May 26, 2007; Smokey Bacon

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

Trump is a baby who sees things with innocent eyes so he's like "can you believe the korean war never ended? We should end it!" which is correct but he literally didn't know that until someone told him. That can be a good thing but also a very bad thing when he tries to nuke China

Speaking strictly from a materialist perspective he's the greatest american president of my life time (cos he hated hilary enough to ignore dem foreign policy)

# ? May 17, 2022 02:27

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Southpaugh posted:

Speaking strictly from a materialist perspective he's the greatest american president of my life time (cos he hated hilary enough to ignore dem foreign policy)

trump gave the american people $2000. thats more than any president i can think of in my lifetime

# ? May 17, 2022 02:50

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Rutibex posted:

trump gave the american people $2000. thats more than any president i can think of in my lifetime

$1800

# ? May 17, 2022 04:38

captainbananas: Sep 11, 2002; Ahoy, Captain!

Real hurthling! posted:

right like it might be 50 below one day if they need to come up through an ice sheet to launch the missiles

good news; soon USN won't even have to worry about breaching ice sheets to first-strike russia from the arctic circle!

indigi posted:

so the architect was probably just a Hogan�s Heroes fan

the architect was probably oberst klink himself courtesy of Operation Paperclip

# ? May 17, 2022 11:32

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

So the 4th Psyops group put an ad out for itself

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VA4e0NqyYMw&feature=youtu.be

I thought this poo poo was going to be a movie ad or something. loving insane

# ? May 19, 2022 16:28

Falukorv: Jun 23, 2013; A funny little mouse!

Real hurthling! posted:

the trees turned red at a time of year. thats how they saw them

Yeah the Brandenburg forest swastika were made out of larches surrounded by pine. Larch turns yellow in autumn before shedding their leaves even though it is a conifer.
Only got discovered in the 90s after they did a bunch of aerial surveys for all state-owned land. Wonder how much longer it would have gone unnoticed if the survey wasnt done in late autumn. By now i guess they probably would have been discovered with all the eyes in the sky?

That it was planted on a boring forest in nowhereville, East Germany probably helped it remain hidden.

Falukorv has issued a correction as of 03:06 on May 21, 2022

# ? May 21, 2022 02:59

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

Chinese (military) rocket science is pretty neat
https://twitter.com/snekotron/status/1528196063122886662

quote:

Since I've been talking about artillery systems today and since there seems to be some interest in the topic, I'm going to take this opportunity to talk about one of the most overlooked segments of the global arms market - Chinese MLRS.

Pictured: PHL-16, public reveal 2019 1/

The PLA's adoption of MLRS artillery came with the economic assistance from the USSR in the years following WW2, with deliveries of BM-13 132mm Katyusha systems. These served in the war in Korea. /2

Owing to the poor industrial base, especially after the Sino-Soviet split, indigenous developments for a time focused on towed, short range MLRS systems. The first of these was adopted in 1958 as the Type 58. It fired American-style 114mm rockets with a range of 5km. /3

This was shortly followed by the Type 63, which is said to have been inspired by the Soviet RPU-14 (towed variant of BM-14), though the caliber was reduced to 107mm. 8.5km range. The PLA of this day focused on light infantry tactics. Versatility and transportability. /4

Together with the towed Type 63, a "heavy" self-propelled Type 63 MLRS was also adopted, with 130mm rockets. This has a distinctive configuration of 10 rockets on the upper row and 9 on the bottom. An updated version with a tracked carrier was adopted in 1970 as the Type 70. /5

Although the political turmoil of the 70s stagnated technological development, the economic boom of the 80s saw the beginnings of the rearmament and modernization of the PLA. First was the Type 81, which was a copy of the Soviet BM-21 grad. Range was identical at 20km. /6

This was followed in the next year by the Type 82, which was a truck-mounted replacement for the old Type 63, firing the same 130mm rockets, but with the load increased from 19 to 30. Range was 10km. /7

But perhaps the first really interesting development was the Type 83, which was China's first foray into the development of heavy MLRS systems. Although it only had a short production run until 1988, this 4x273mm MLRS was an important tech demonstrator. Max range: 40km. /8

Although the Type 83 was withdrawn from service in the 1990s, it ignited an interest in heavy MLRS, and it evolved into the WM-80, which increased the rocket load to 8 and range to 80km. Although ultimately not adopted by the PLA, it was offered for export. /9

Meanwhile, also in the 90s, the PLA received a modernization of its Grads in the form of the Type 89, with a tracked carrier and some updated munitions. A hydraulic reloading system was adapted from the Czech RM-70 and could reload all 40 tubes in 2 minutes. /10

Now we're getting into big boy territory. The 90s also saw the indigenous development of the WS-1, the first of the truly long range Chinese MLRS. If featured a 6x300mm (4x300mm for WS-1B) and had a max range of 180km for the B version. Ultimately not adopted. Sold to Turkey. /11

Concurrently with the WS-1, China developed the A-series of MLRS after studying the Soviet BM-30. The A-100 visually resembles the Smerch, but with 10 tubes instead of 12. It offered some other improvements like longer range (120km). Modernized A100s are operated by 🇵🇰&🇹🇿. /12

The development of the A-series continued with the A-200 and A-300, offering ranges of 200km and 290km in an 8x300mm payload configuration. Readers might be more familiar with these as they are also known as the Polonez and Polonez-M operated by Belarus. /13

As the WS-1, the A-series was never adopted by the PLA but served as important tech demonstrators that led to the development of the PLA-adopted PHL-03, which debuted in 2003. This featured a 12x300mm configuration with 160km range with the latest rockets. /14

Meanwhile, to not forget about the humble grad, the old launcher received another modernization in the form of the PHL-11, with a new ballistic computer and modular capability. In addition to the 20x122mm grad rockets, it can carry 6x220mm or 1x610mm ballistic missile. /15

The WS series of rockets continued to be developed, in the form of the WS-2, revealed in 2008. This is an even heavier MLRS with 6x400mm rockets, with the D version having over a range of 350km. This was ultimately not adopted (yet) but is offered for export. /16

What is quite interesting about the Chinese procurement system is that a lot of these projects, even if they don't make it into PLA adoption, are kept alive and serve as important tech demonstrators whose features can be incorporated into full-run production platforms. /17

Which brings us to the latest and greatest, the PHL-16 AKA PCL191, an 8x370mm launcher. As we've seen, the PLA has the most stringent requirements for adoption. Just being large and powerful isn't enough. It has to have a balanced payload, modularity, and ease of servicing. /18

Range on these 370mm rockets is often quoted at 220km, but there are extended range rockets that have been quoted at 280 or 350km. Each of the 2 4x370mm cells can be fitted with a BRE8 ballistic missile or a TL-7B anti-ship missile. Once launched the PHL-16 can depart in <1min. /19

Rockets and missiles can be also launched remotely from the vehicle by using remote control unit.

Anyway, this has been an overview of Chinese MLRS development. It is a huge player in the global arms market, and any discussion of MLRS wouldn't be complete without them. /20 END