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Just off the top of my head, bearing in mind that this LP is my only exposure to this game, some things they could have done with naval units: All naval units should have the ability to hit land units. Give cruisers and submarines cruise missiles. Let cruisers act as ranged units against air, not just melee units. Put stuff to capture in the sea, and let naval units capture them. Alternatively, let ships drop landing parties or whatever, have the ship be able to move into coastal properties and capture them. Include a vision barrier to keep land units from seeing into water - maybe something like fog of war by default, but only working to keep land units from seeing out to sea. If you want to see and contest the water, you need navy (or air). Air units should be less effective against naval units in general.
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Apr 22, 2022 21:23
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Cythereal posted:
This is one of the things they do in Endless Legend to try and make the sea matter (Endless Legend's terrible combat aside). Little bases or resource generators, mists, choppy seas that eat movement points; there's a lot that you could crib from it for the Hypothetical AW5.
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Apr 22, 2022 22:26
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Cythereal posted:Just off the top of my head, bearing in mind that this LP is my only exposure to this game, some things they could have done with naval units: Those sound like a lot of great ideas to me. I also think DoR did a good job adding the very cheap and useful Gunboat unit which livened up naval combat and also made transport by sea affordable for infantry (kind of like Black Boats did in DS but more so). And making the capital ships so powerful that it's worth having a bit of a navy just to protect them.
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Apr 23, 2022 01:30
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Days of ruin is the one where battleships gain the ability to move and fire on the same turn, right?
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Apr 23, 2022 06:24
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I think the most straightforward and accurate way to make naval strategy dynamic is to go all in on fog of war.
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Apr 23, 2022 07:06
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Discendo Vox posted:I think the most straightforward and accurate way to make naval strategy dynamic is to go all in on fog of war. I'm not convinced that that, on its own, would fix very much. I think some of these other changes people have been talking about would be necessary too. 31: To the Rescue Here's a mission I always liked a lot. It's a shame it's over so quickly.
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Apr 23, 2022 18:58
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An air unit that cannot attack ground units being able to block them from moving is just so wonderfully gamey.
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Apr 23, 2022 19:15
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Xarn posted:An air unit that cannot attack ground units being able to block them from moving is just so wonderfully gamey. it would simply be too scary to walk underneath the fighter. what if one crashed on us omg omg
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Apr 23, 2022 20:44
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The thing I think about most with these games, from playing AW1 and just seeing various LPs, is drat is it miserable not having danger zones. Especially on a huge map like this with a full map-wide set of attacks. I hope the remake added that in.
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Apr 23, 2022 21:31
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rannum posted:The thing I think about most with these games, from playing AW1 and just seeing various LPs, is drat is it miserable not having danger zones. Especially on a huge map like this with a full map-wide set of attacks. That absolutely would be a great feature. I was thinking on this mission and the next one how helpful it would be. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure they intended it to be part of the required skill level to beat the mission that one have to maintain a good idea of where the black cannons and lasers and whatnot are. Melth fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Apr 24, 2022 |
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Apr 23, 2022 23:31
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32: Great Sea Battle One of the greatest challenges I've ever tackled in Advance Wars- beating this difficult mission via frontal assault while taking zero casualties. I hadn't originally planned to beat the whole Green Earth campaign without casualties, but just noticed it was happening right before this mission and decided to continue it!
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Apr 24, 2022 23:18
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That was one hell of a run, Melth. Given how generous the par time is, my guess is your unrealistic, head on approach may be what the devs actually assumed people would do!
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Apr 25, 2022 05:30
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Discendo Vox posted:That was one hell of a run, Melth. Given how generous the par time is, my guess is your unrealistic, head on approach may be what the devs actually assumed people would do! I think the 'sneaky' approach is the intended one, since if you yield the game pretty much explicitly tells you to have Green Earth + Orange Star distract the enemy while Yellow Comet sneaks a rocket in. In general I think they set up most factory missions where the main country army holds off what they expected would be an overwhelming force while the ally sneaks in and bombs the pipe. That's by far the most natural way to beat the Blue Moon and Yellow Comet factory missions with those conveniently located airports for getting a sneaky bomber in. Likewise with Orange Star but without the allied army.
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Apr 25, 2022 06:48
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Melth posted:I think the 'sneaky' approach is the intended one, since if you yield the game pretty much explicitly tells you to have Green Earth + Orange Star distract the enemy while Yellow Comet sneaks a rocket in. I like this setup. It rewards you for out-thinking the enemy, however obvious the game makes it, and encourages you to avoid a brute force approach.
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Apr 25, 2022 15:05
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Three fighters, five bombers and three neotanks knocking at Hawke's factory doors. Does it seem the setup for a joke to anyone else?
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Apr 25, 2022 19:59
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Omobono posted:Three fighters, five bombers and three neotanks knocking at Hawke's factory doors. It does, but I still haven't come up with a good punchline! 33: Hot Pursuit Here's the first black hole mission
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Apr 30, 2022 16:12
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Well, you made that mission look silly. Sturm of course planned to lose the mission because it makes him seem less incompetent, but he probably didn't plan on losing it quite like this. "The enemy has destroyed the black cannons, there must have been a very dramatic fight where they destroyed my entire army". "No sir, actually they ignored everything you had except for these 3 tanks that they blew up entirely out of spite."
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Apr 30, 2022 19:40
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honestly kind of feels like a mission that they didn't finish. It's weird how there's that whole water portion you just...never have to interact with? And is in fact, better not to? Mesing with a navy at all will do nothing but bring you more time spent capturing, dealing with the ships, and then moving battle ships up (after getting the funds and so forth) so it's not even worth doing in theory. At least in other maps, even if having a navy isn't something you should bother with, it's sort of "on the way" and you could see someone doing it. Or how there are NO enemies whatsoever to deal with if you don't break the pipes. The sheer amount covered by the cannons is a lot but I dunno Maybe it was designed as a breather mission before the finale
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May 1, 2022 04:20
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I just think the developers never considered that you might not want to bust the pipe seams and take on storm's army.
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May 1, 2022 04:43
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Just caught up on this thread and it's been super enjoyable! I played Dual Strike back in the day but don't remember much about it. I appreciate your attempt to find order in the nonsense throwaway story.
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May 1, 2022 23:08
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I think the intention might be to use battleships as a backdoor to snipe the two black cannons on the sides? I don't recall if their range can cover that?
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May 2, 2022 17:12
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pokeyman posted:Just caught up on this thread and it's been super enjoyable! I played Dual Strike back in the day but don't remember much about it. Thanks! I think I like this episodic stuff better than the more linear stories of AW1 and AW:DS. Those I would call bad stories, whereas this is just a collection of tiny vignettes, with a good number of them making self-contained sense at least. Marluxia posted:I think the intention might be to use battleships as a backdoor to snipe the two black cannons on the sides? I don't recall if their range can cover that? Sadly no they can't. You come out one short. Unless you're Grit, in which case you can just barely hit one cannon. After fighting through Sturm's forces with Grit's horrible navy. And of course that means you're not well positioned to use Grit rockets in the middle or anything.
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May 2, 2022 23:49
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My second global league game reverses the COs from my match against Starduster. Now I'm the one playing Max and trying to win fast vs Eagle. Advance Wars By Web, The Two Towers
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May 8, 2022 22:08
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That was really cool. Quite surprising of your opponent not to go after the top tower at all.
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May 8, 2022 22:36
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Caught up on the multiplayer episodes and I could watch 'em all day. Seems like a ton of work but it's much appreciated. I'm curious about what's up with ambushes in replays. I think it's consistent in how it breaks but I can't quite figure it out. I was even tempted to try to fix it until you showed the bit about it not being open source.
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May 9, 2022 03:19
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It looks like the replay catches that an ambush occurred, but doesn't have data on what tile it occurred in. So the unit displays in the original tile until a later action updates it's location
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May 9, 2022 05:00
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FoolyCharged posted:It looks like the replay catches that an ambush occurred, but doesn't have data on what tile it occurred in. So the unit displays in the original tile until a later action updates it's location Sometimes the replay does seem to show the ambush properly though. I'm almost certain that a couple of times I've seen it do a little 'ambush!' animation. 90% of the time though yeah, it displays in the original tile until a later action updates the location. pokeyman posted:Caught up on the multiplayer episodes and I could watch 'em all day. Seems like a ton of work but it's much appreciated. Thanks! They're definitely the toughest videos to make, but they're fun too. I'm working on a new one collaborating with Advance Warrior now. I was also going to do another co-commentary with another youtuber today, but he surrendered a bit early so I don't think it would make a good video. anilEhilated posted:That was really cool. Quite surprising of your opponent not to go after the top tower at all. I agree that it's weird the opponent didn't go after the top tower- weird but not surprising. My opponent seems to be playing like a lot of the top players, who completely ignore the weak side com tower on this map and don't even try to harass it. I guess they just assume they'll get the strong side com tower. But I knew I had an infallible way to grab his strong side com tower. It was just a question of whether I could keep it. It looks like the opponent did redirect an infantry to try to grab the northern com tower- but it was too late at that point, which was also as I had planned. Melth fucked around with this message at 06:52 on May 9, 2022 |
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May 9, 2022 06:45
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When I did mission 33 I came up with the incredible strategy of building up a line of Kanbei rockets while I had Grit build battleships to shoot one of the black cannons down, had him move an APC with an infantry to the other side of the map to grab the port by Eagle (because he’s not going to ever use it), and repeating the process on the other end, and only then opening the pipe seams and watching a good reminder that Kanbei units are even more broken than Sturm units in stats as those Neotanks were blown to pieces in rapid order without killing a single rocket Combined with an accidental Meteor Strike bait (rather than hitting said rocket line it slammed into Grits battleships instead) and it was a total curbstomp
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May 11, 2022 15:27
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the Orb of Zot posted:When I did mission 33 I came up with the incredible strategy of building up a line of Kanbei rockets while I had Grit build battleships to shoot one of the black cannons down, had him move an APC with an infantry to the other side of the map to grab the port by Eagle (because he’s not going to ever use it), and repeating the process on the other end, and only then opening the pipe seams and watching a good reminder that Kanbei units are even more broken than Sturm units in stats as those Neotanks were blown to pieces in rapid order without killing a single rocket Very nice! Sounds time consuming though!
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May 12, 2022 06:49
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34: Final Front Even after all these years, this mission is still quite challenging. A lot of things went wrong while playing this, and I learned more about how Sturm's meteor targeting works in this game (inconsistently!). Like I said when I started this run though, my goal is to show robust strategies that work even when things go wrong rather than ones that rely on luck and AI cooperation, so I suppose this is a very fitting end to the normal campaign. I'll be moving on to the Hard Campaign soon!
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May 15, 2022 20:42
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Man you can really feel the exhaustion set in around the hour mark and it never lets up I still remember how tiring the final map of the first game was Also your comment about it easier in Hard Mode made me look up the map and that...sure was a decision they made on the layout, huh
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May 16, 2022 02:53
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I could never beat that mission when I played as a kid. I think in part it's because I put Andy in the center thinking his power would be good for a dug in defense while using eagle and Kanbei to go up the sides with bombers. Just could never get enough of an economy going to punch through in time.
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May 16, 2022 03:38
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Soylent Pudding posted:I could never beat that mission when I played as a kid. I think in part it's because I put Andy in the center thinking his power would be good for a dug in defense while using eagle and Kanbei to go up the sides with bombers. Just could never get enough of an economy going to punch through in time. I think I remember I tried Andy in the middle at one point too as a kid, and I also tried Sami since she can capture the two bases north of the middle. But that's useless because anything built there gets torn to shreds immediately anyway. Colin is totally viable and I think I was using him and Max and Kanbei when I beat it. I had to redo it though because I only got a B rank since I had no idea how the power score worked and had got all the kills with the wrong army.
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May 16, 2022 05:03
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That was an impressive endurance match, congrats! Sonja's continued presence as a playable CO baffles me. Given that she's supposed to be the fog of war CO, and how rarely fog of war even appears in this game, you'd figure that at minimum her CO powers would let her plunge a map that's not normally fog of war into the fog for a turn or two.
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May 16, 2022 14:11
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Cythereal posted:That was an impressive endurance match, congrats! You would also figure a master of tactics wouldn't have units that just do less damage across the board for no reason, but Sonja is actually really bad at everything
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May 16, 2022 16:21
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I can see how Colin would be a viable choice on the final mission, I can just never make myself enjoy swarm of weaker units over a few strong ones. My random how to make Sonja suck less idea is that her units shouldn't lose their action when ambushed in fog of war.
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May 16, 2022 18:57
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FoolyCharged posted:You would also figure a master of tactics wouldn't have units that just do less damage across the board for no reason, but Sonja is actually really bad at everything I still remain uncertain what the in-universe explanation for her being terrible is! This game doesn't even tell you that she has bad luck in the first place, though AW1 did.
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May 16, 2022 19:04
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That final mission seems to be an absurd jump in difficulty, 300 point score or no. I'm surprised the game doesn't hardwire the target for Sturm's ability, then tell the player how it operates- that would also render him a bit more balanced for multiplayer. The flipside is that this video illustrates the level of tilted mission conditions and enemy abilities that the game needs to compensate for its limited AI and still challenge a player that has mastered its mechanics. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:51 on May 17, 2022 |
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May 17, 2022 03:34
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Discendo Vox posted:That final mission seems to be an absurd jump in difficulty, 300 point score or no. I'm surprised the game doesn't hardwire the target for Sturm's ability, then tell the player how it operates- that would also render him a bit more balanced for multiplayer. Part of the problem is that Melth was trying to fight Sturm head-to-head, despite what a juggernaut he is. But, the other two thing is that he didn't know about how Black Cannons choose between equal-value targets (right-to-left, in the case of the eastern Black Cannon). Yes, you can predict which Bomber the Black Cannons fire on. For that matter, you can also predict that Sturm's Fighters will go for Bombers with normal Defense, rather than boosted Defense (like what Eagle & Kanbei have). In fact, you can even predict the order in which Sturm's units moves (it goes according to type). Thus, you have the potential for a much easier mission to S-Rank, even if Sturm's Fighter spawns in the middle (as shown here): Advance Wars 2—Final Front (S-Rank in 9 Days) Of course, Melth's way was much more interesting—far more climactic. Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 10:33 on May 17, 2022 |
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May 17, 2022 10:09
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That's arguably worse, because it has to rely even harder on AI mechanisms that aren't explained.
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May 17, 2022 23:08
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