Bitcoin: no angel investors, only Faustian bargains

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Bitcoin: no angel investors, only Faustian bargains

A Wizard of Goatse: Dec 14, 2014

it's the same dumbass libertarian logic it's always been, where if a corporation forms a private army and sends them to clap you in chains and sell you to a salt mine for your unpaid electric bill that's freedom, because the huge abstract entities oppressing you are not called government. You could theoretically start your own NFT market, so Opensea isn't a central authority, except that Opensea already dominates the niche and nobody has any reason to value some rando knockoff initiative over the big market where all the money is. You could build an elaborate Rube Goldberg machine to produce a million ledgers independently establishing your ownership of nothing, but don't ask how this is different from just not owning anything.

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 18, 2022

# ? May 18, 2022 17:35

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# ? May 29, 2024 22:40

Tarquinn: Jul 3, 2007; I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you
my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal.; Hell Gem

LifeSunDeath posted:

gonna start an NFT based dating site called Plenty of Grifts.

Does that mean all the dick pics will be on the blockchain?

# ? May 18, 2022 17:59

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Durzel posted:

The weird thing about this I think is that people hail NFTs as giving true ownership of thing. Because the blockchain is the arbiter of truth, no one can deny the truth that you own thing (or a link to thing at any rate). Except, OpenSea has positioned itself to be the arbiter of truth of ownership of things. When Seth Green had a bunch of NFTs stolen recently, one got sold but the others were "frozen" on OpenSea, somehow. So, the blockchain is incidental to ownership it would seem, and OpenSea is actually the gatekeeper.

If enough people use OpenSea, then OpenSea becomes (and arguably already is) the centralised, opaque, autocratic authority on who owns what, which runs counter to the whole "decentralised, power to the people" conceit surely?. They can - apparently - stop you selling the stuff you own, and perhaps even tell everyone except you that you aren't the legitimate owner of things if it so chooses, even though the blockchain is supposed to be the thing that defines ownership. If something is transferred to someone else, and everyone agrees (block confirmations) that it is transferred, then they own it in totality. There is no technical "on chain" difference between an NFT that was stolen from someone and one that was legitimately transferred as part of an agreed sale.

At least with something tangible once you own it (or have stolen it) you have it in your possession. With the brave new world of digital asset ownership the likes of OpenSea can taint your ownership, legitimate or otherwise, and prevent you basically getting any value from ownership since they are the de facto marketplace. How is that giving more power to the people?

They can stop you from selling it on OpenSea but not other platforms.

The real rub comes in when someone buys it on Larry's Discount NFT Trading and tries to re-sell it down the road. Does being locked out of OpenSea make it forever tainted? What happens if the people buying on another platform aren't aware that it's been locked out of OpenSea? How does OpenSea verify that a stolen NFT really is stolen as opposed to the owner doing a private sale and then trying to burn the purchaser?

# ? May 18, 2022 18:02

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

It's just the token. It's only ever the token. People are buying and selling hyperlinks worth hundreds of thousands/millions of dollars. But it's a unique, one of a kind hyperlink.

I mean, sometimes ownership of the token can confer benefits in other systems, (e.g. skins in games), but those are granted through informal agreements outside of the blockchain and can (and will) disappear at a moment's notice. If a photographer is just putting a photo on opensea, it's just the token. whoever buys it has no right to use that photo for anything.

Some lawyer made a video about the legal questions surrounding NFTs and there's an interesting wrinkle about rights not stored on the blockchain.

You can sell an NFT and include the copyright, for example. But most NFT's aren't containing a complex document (because size affects gas fees I believe - it's why the pics are stored on servers rather than on the chain itself) so the sales contract isn't something that is going to stay affixed to that NFT.

So let's say you buy a piece of art as an NFT, and the artist includes copyright and whatever other ownership stakes you care to name. Do those rights transfer to the second buyer when you sell that NFT? Probably not, which is hilarious. I mean, you COULD make up a new sales agreement that includes that stuff all over again, but at this point you're drafting a non-NFT sales agreement for each NFT and at that point why do you even have the NFT?

You can just, you know, buy the rights to a piece of digital artwork the old fashioned way and then sell those rights down the road if you so choose.

# ? May 18, 2022 18:06

Sucrose: Dec 9, 2009

I want all this poo poo to hurry up and blow up now before it takes the entire economy down with it.

# ? May 18, 2022 18:17

Gutcruncher: Apr 16, 2005; Go home and be a family man!

Yes correct, NFTs are useless in any actual art or IP sales since in the end you will have to have a real contract along with it anyways.

The future of ownership!!

# ? May 18, 2022 18:17

A Wizard of Goatse: Dec 14, 2014

there isn't AFAICT any reason you couldn't write up a contract that grants copyright to the bearer of the NFT and leave it at that, but there's a reason nobody with a copyright worth having is rushing to have their lawyers draft a paper saying "whoever holds this document owns all rights to Mickey Mouse". Since no NFT is worth owning the copyright to, the validity of this may never be tested.

Sucrose posted:

I want all this poo poo to hurry up and blow up now before it takes the entire economy down with it.

too late lol

# ? May 18, 2022 18:18

Hello Sailor: May 3, 2006; we're all mad here

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

it's the same dumbass libertarian logic it's always been, where if a corporation forms a private army and sends them to clap you in chains and sell you to a salt mine for your unpaid electric bill that's freedom, because the huge abstract entities oppressing you are not called government.

Tbf, they wouldn't even wait for an unpaid bill if the ROI for whatever they made from selling their customers into slavery exceeded the expected profit from selling them electricity.

# ? May 18, 2022 18:22

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

Tarquinn posted:

Does that mean all the dick pics will be on the blockchain?

cockchain

# ? May 18, 2022 18:43

Agents are GO!: Dec 29, 2004

Dabir posted:

cockchain

Code is schlong.

# ? May 18, 2022 18:52

Sophy Wackles: Dec 17, 2000; > access main security grid
access: PERMISSION DENIED.

Lowen SoDium posted:

This guy is one of you, isn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9nv0Ol-R5Q&t=35s

This is really good even though the lecturer is obviously a bit internet poisoned.

# ? May 18, 2022 18:59

HappyHippo: Nov 19, 2003; Do you have an Air Miles Card?

Sophy Wackles posted:

This is really good even though the lecturer is obviously a bit internet poisoned.

Pretty funny, at 38:30 he offhandedly mentions that "algorithm stablecoins are snake oil that implode spectacularly"

This was posted in February

# ? May 18, 2022 19:08

pippy: May 29, 2013; CRIMES

staberind posted:

so, do the bad pictures of apes date or do the people dumb enough to buy them date?
one seems unremarkcable, like a kind of roleplay as a furry with slightly less chance of std's while the other is going to be an even bigger dumpster fire than usual.
Looking forwards to the extremely public meltdowns in either case.

"oh, you look nothing like your ape...." etc.

ahaahahahahahahaahahahahhahaahahahahahahahahahahahahah, to no ones surprise:

There is no way this wasn't a joke:
https://twitter.com/y4kxyz/status/1524893128444067841

# ? May 18, 2022 19:23

Planet X: Dec 10, 2003; GOOD MORNING

Oh see I thought that was a joke and not a real thing

# ? May 18, 2022 19:28

Sophy Wackles: Dec 17, 2000; > access main security grid
access: PERMISSION DENIED.

HappyHippo posted:

Pretty funny, at 38:30 he offhandedly mentions that "algorithm stablecoins are snake oil that implode spectacularly"

This was posted in February

lol yeah I noticed that too.

He also mentioned a site that tracks these crypto/blockchain scams and disasters. Dunno if it's been linked here:

https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

# ? May 18, 2022 19:30

limp_cheese: Sep 10, 2007; Nothing to see here. Move along.

LifeSunDeath posted:

gonna start an NFT based dating site called Plenty of Grifts.

I like the female ape that looks like she is on the verge of crying and doesn't want to be there. Really nails the female experience of dealing with these guys.

# ? May 18, 2022 19:36

Mercury_Storm: Jun 12, 2003; *chomp chomp chomp*

pippy posted:

There is no way this wasn't a joke:
https://twitter.com/y4kxyz/status/1524893128444067841

of course the obvious solution to this common dating app issue: they should just date the other bros, problem solved.

# ? May 18, 2022 19:37

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Mercury_Storm posted:

of course the obvious solution to this common dating app issue: they should just date the other bros, problem solved.

https://twitter.com/meakoopa/status/1526993466525360128

# ? May 18, 2022 19:39

WorldIndustries: Dec 21, 2004

https://twitter.com/web3isgreat/status/1526987597167345664

really hope this goes somewhere

# ? May 18, 2022 19:39

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Enjoy being poor, Do Kwan

# ? May 18, 2022 19:42

Lowen SoDium: Jun 5, 2003; Highen Fiber; Clapping Larry

pippy posted:

There is no way this wasn't a joke:
https://twitter.com/y4kxyz/status/1524893128444067841

Shared this with my wife. She said "Bro's have holes, I don't see the problem"

# ? May 18, 2022 19:44

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

Aren't you just supposed to close your eyes and imagine the NFT they presented as?

# ? May 18, 2022 19:45

Gutcruncher: Apr 16, 2005; Go home and be a family man!

It�s supposed to be decentralized and it just naturally became centralized. It�s supposed to be Tinder and it just naturally became Grinder. Life finds a way

# ? May 18, 2022 19:47

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

there isn't AFAICT any reason you couldn't write up a contract that grants copyright to the bearer of the NFT and leave it at that, but there's a reason nobody with a copyright worth having is rushing to have their lawyers draft a paper saying "whoever holds this document owns all rights to Mickey Mouse". Since no NFT is worth owning the copyright to, the validity of this may never be tested.

too late lol

The problem with this is that the contract is only between the people who are party to signing it. If you and an artist sign that contract, and then you sell it to me, and I sell it to someone else, no one involved in that third sale ever signed the original contract. There MIGHT be an argument that you're obligated to transfer the copyright to me, but I"m under no obligation to do that for the other guy.

fake edit: found that lawyer's video. It's another good one that really focuses in on just how insanely problematic NFT's are from a contract law standpoint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6aeL83z_9Y

# ? May 18, 2022 19:48

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

limp_cheese posted:

I like the female ape that looks like she is on the verge of crying and doesn't want to be there. Really nails the female experience of dealing with these guys.

Is Coincel a term yet?

Can we make it one?

# ? May 18, 2022 19:53

Gutcruncher: Apr 16, 2005; Go home and be a family man!

Cyrano4747 posted:

Is Coincel a term yet?

Can we make it one?

Isn�t it the massive coinsell causing this crisis!?

# ? May 18, 2022 20:01

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

It's a mystery why an app with the slogan 'Meet degenerates online' couldn't attract any women.

# ? May 18, 2022 20:07

funeral home DJ: Apr 21, 2003; Pillbug

Lowen SoDium posted:

Shared this with my wife. She said "Bro's have holes, I don't see the problem"

"Bro Hole" is a pretty pro-tier username IMO.

# ? May 18, 2022 20:08

kdrudy: Sep 19, 2009

funeral home DJ posted:

"Bro Hole" is a pretty pro-tier username IMO.

You gotta pay the troll toll

# ? May 18, 2022 20:11

SAY YOHO: Oct 5, 2021

The Saddest Rhino posted:

The first nft that I'm made aware of was featured in the Feels Good Man documentary and its a pepe Homer. It was sold for 300k

https://twitter.com/AltcoinDailyio/status/1366963955193712641?t=GtkOK5KgsKB_FefLLmlaFA&s=19

I'm pretty sure this ain't patient zero, but this may have been the catalyst for the nft craze and the bored ape yacht club people threw in a ton of money to promote their apes

Haven't heard of lazy lions for awhile wonder what's up with them

https://twitter.com/DrLazyLions/status/1526866564498214913?t=x2z3kq4hBvQGiTuMdWB61Q&s=19

Oh god

# ? May 18, 2022 20:14

Dr. Video Games 0031: Jul 17, 2004

SAY YOHO posted:

aside from the fact that they're both an island with a river, i don't see it

# ? May 18, 2022 20:36

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Mozi posted:

Forget it, Jake. It's Apetown.

This should be the official internet slogan now

# ? May 18, 2022 20:43

SAY YOHO: Oct 5, 2021

More I just noticed the similarity and wanted to post a map I like.

# ? May 18, 2022 20:44

That DICK!: Sep 28, 2010

Noob Saibot posted:

This should be the official internet slogan now

# ? May 18, 2022 20:46

Beefed Owl: Sep 13, 2007; Come at me scrub-lord I'm ripped!

# ? May 18, 2022 21:12

LifeSunDeath: Jan 4, 2007; still gay rights and smoke weed every day

Cyrano4747 posted:

Some lawyer made a video about the legal questions surrounding NFTs and there's an interesting wrinkle about rights not stored on the blockchain.

You can sell an NFT and include the copyright, for example. But most NFT's aren't containing a complex document (because size affects gas fees I believe - it's why the pics are stored on servers rather than on the chain itself) so the sales contract isn't something that is going to stay affixed to that NFT.

So let's say you buy a piece of art as an NFT, and the artist includes copyright and whatever other ownership stakes you care to name. Do those rights transfer to the second buyer when you sell that NFT? Probably not, which is hilarious. I mean, you COULD make up a new sales agreement that includes that stuff all over again, but at this point you're drafting a non-NFT sales agreement for each NFT and at that point why do you even have the NFT?

You can just, you know, buy the rights to a piece of digital artwork the old fashioned way and then sell those rights down the road if you so choose.

I really love trying to do the thought exercise of being a good faith actor owning an NFT. Just LOL!

# ? May 18, 2022 22:33

mdxi: Mar 13, 2006; to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING

limp_cheese posted:

I like the female ape that looks like she is on the verge of crying and doesn't want to be there. Really nails the ~~female~~ experience of dealing with these guys.

ftfy

# ? May 18, 2022 22:43