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eXXon posted:I don't think he really stole content any more than 99% of SFF writers do, but the magical school subgenre is preeetty well-established at this point and nothing he did with it was new. I don't think 'theft' is a big deal to be honest. People can come up with similar/same ideas without knowing the original source. But he totally stole it. They are not his original ideas as he totally got them from another source. And I know the poster is talking about his 'magic systems'. TheGreatEvilKing posted:The key to understanding the magic school is thst its all taken from Rothfuss' eternal college days. This is 100% true. Especially the focus on student loans. Lottery of Babylon posted:actually Kvothe is really cool when he totally owns Ambrose in a really cool and clever and smart and ownful way Evil Fluffy posted:The only reason Ambrose is the villain is because he’s being an aggressive sexpest when we first meet him. Otherwise he’d just be some noble who keeps doing poo poo to some arrogant freshman who thinks the world revolves around them. He has to keep going out of his way to make Ambrose awful otherwise people, might remember just how much of a little bastard kvothe is. He's not even a sexpest in his first scene! In his first scene he cheats Kvothe out of some money and lets him get into trouble when he kept insisting to go into the Stacks (despite that being off-limits to uhh people who only just passed the exam). He only sexpests later and Kvothe makes a big deal out of it with his WHY DON'T YOU gently caress THAT WHOREEEEE IN A BACKALLEY SINCE YOU'RE TREATING HER LIKE A WHOREEEEE line which in reality would not get a "oh you're so cool and handsome and dreamy" response. Also I got the impression that Rothfuss completely forgot that Kvothe is suppose to be a kid during all of this. Or that the Wizard College people are suppose to be 20+ years old. Since Kvothe is 15-16 during the first two books, so it makes little sense for anyone to think he was super cool and handsome because he's a snot-nosed twerp still. Kchama fucked around with this message at 13:04 on May 18, 2022 |
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May 18, 2022 11:12
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Its like a US high school drama where teens are being played by people in their mid 20s and they inexplicably have the concerns of people who are older than them by a few years.
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May 18, 2022 12:57
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Southpaugh posted:Its like a US high school drama where teens are being played by people in their mid 20s and they inexplicably have the concerns of people who are older than them by a few years. Except it is just Kvothe who is like that, whereas all the Wizard College dudes who are ACTUALLY suppose to be 20+ years old. I can't tell you how old since well... outside of Kvothe and that one guy who is like 50 and still in college, we don't know jack about anybody.
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May 18, 2022 13:07
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Kchama posted:Except it is just Kvothe who is like that, whereas all the Wizard College dudes who are ACTUALLY suppose to be 20+ years old. I can't tell you how old since well... outside of Kvothe and that one guy who is like 50 and still in college, we don't know jack about anybody. you know the most important thing about them: which ones like quotey and which ones don't
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May 18, 2022 16:33
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It is kinda funny that Kvothe is high school age in book one and lives out Rothfuss' extremely bland college fantasies, like struggling with debt while not noticing that all of his sexy female classmates want to gently caress him. Then in book 2 he ages and matures a bit while clearly descending to high or frankly middle school-level fantasies.
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May 18, 2022 17:00
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eXXon posted:It is kinda funny that Kvothe is high school age in book one and lives out Rothfuss' extremely bland college fantasies, like struggling with debt while not noticing that all of his sexy female classmates want to gently caress him. Then in book 2 he ages and matures a bit while clearly descending to high or frankly middle school-level fantasies. Given the fragmentary nature of the second book and how choppy and "un-Kvothe-like" Kvothe is in it, the theory is he wrote those short stories first (probably for college assignments, when everyone read them they stood up and clapped). Then he wrote Name of the Wind, then when his work ethic completely disappeared and his publisher pressured him for a sequel he took the extant shorts and strung them together with bad transitions into a "novel".
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May 18, 2022 17:49
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Genuinely curious how Name of the Wind skyrocketed to the top of so many reviewer lists. It's not like there's a standard of fantasy literature that is in the toilet. You could easily find better written books then NotW every single year going back to the 60s. It's not terrible, but there's more then a few "everyone stood up and clapped" moments in it that are sort of like fan-fiction in their level of quality that should've been dinged harder in reviews of the book. It has all the trappings of a good fantasy book, but not a 10 million best seller. The closest thing I can compare it to is Rick and Morty. Becomes wildly popular and highly praised, then sort of up its own rear end and people being huge fans of it is actually more a comment on their personality then the media itself.
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May 18, 2022 18:26
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College being expensive: you don't understand the pain and suffering, the torment of being surrounded by the wealthy elites and having to work so hard at my job doing the things I love for a lot of money, but not enough money Parents being raped and murdered, entire life being destroyed, left alone for years and forced onto the streets: I moped around for a bit, then took a bath and pulled myself together, nbd
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May 18, 2022 19:50
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pentyne posted:Genuinely curious how Name of the Wind skyrocketed to the top of so many reviewer lists. It's slurry that goes down smooth but can't be chewed, but that doesn't bother readers who don't want to chew their food in the first place What makes Pat unique is that he did an unusually good job of flavoring it in a way to trick readers into the belief they are chewing
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May 18, 2022 20:24
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pentyne posted:Genuinely curious how Name of the Wind skyrocketed to the top of so many reviewer lists. Advertising is extremely important, and if you have friends in high places your friends can spread it around and make you very well-known and purchased. Rothfuss was personal friends with the people who ran the original contest he won, and they made sure his name got spread about the fantasy big names and he got picked up by publishers very invested in buying his work sight unseen. Aall three books were supposed to have been already finished, to literally avoid GRRM or Jordan-esque 'the books are never finished (by the original author anyways)' issues. Basically same reason why Ready Player One or Eragon were such big hits despite being hot garbage. Raiad posted:College being expensive: you don't understand the pain and suffering, the torment of being surrounded by the wealthy elites and having to work so hard at my job doing the things I love for a lot of money, but not enough money You can tell which parts were the actual plot of Name of the Wind and which were short stories dropped in to fill the page count - everything after his parents died to him going to Magic College and taking the bath was a separate short story, which is why he does zero magic in that entire section despite how much it would otherwise help him and why the big emphasis on how the bath changed his looks (so the years of being a constant-beaten street urchin literally disappear!) and 'reawakens his sleeping mind' (so now he can suddenly do magic again!).
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May 18, 2022 23:06
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Yeah the street urchin phase is bizarre as hell, especially since he had all the same talents like being a music God and yet wasn't able to find a single way to turn those abilities into making money until his magic bath and stealing a noble clothes set.
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May 18, 2022 23:16
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Being charitable, wasn't the point that he'd almost gone feral from the stress and desperation of his panicked flight from danger? That he'd lost his human connection and needed an act of sime human kindness to bring him back to his senses? I'm sure a talented fantasy author could make that really compelling.
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May 18, 2022 23:35
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Kchama posted:You can tell which parts were the actual plot of Name of the Wind and which were short stories dropped in to fill the page count - everything after his parents died to him going to Magic College and taking the bath was a separate short story, which is why he does zero magic in that entire section despite how much it would otherwise help him and why the big emphasis on how the bath changed his looks (so the years of being a constant-beaten street urchin literally disappear!) and 'reawakens his sleeping mind' (so now he can suddenly do magic again!). And despite life in the city being so horrible, he never even thought about going back to the forest, where he lived for half a year without any issues 
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May 18, 2022 23:47
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Being charitable, wasn't the point that he'd almost gone feral from the stress and desperation of his panicked flight from danger? That he'd lost his human connection and needed an act of sime human kindness to bring him back to his senses? It could've been, if his entire personality, education, and training that was sufficient enough for him to get into magic school several years early hadn't been switched off the entire time and only took a bath and a silk cravat to activate.
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May 19, 2022 00:20
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Being charitable, wasn't the point that he'd almost gone feral from the stress and desperation of his panicked flight from danger? That he'd lost his human connection and needed an act of sime human kindness to bring him back to his senses? Beyond what Pentyne said, it isn't even human kindness that 'brings him back to his senses', as him getting to the city in the first place involved a man and his son treating him kindly. He refuses to go with them to where they live and never seriously considers going after them and they're forgotten afterwards. Also, it was like six months until he went to the city, and then he stayed in the city for like three years like that. The bath and noble clothes actually involved him scamming people into giving him things. He just suddenly went "Oh, it's time for me to go to magic school" and suddenly his personality completely changes.
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May 19, 2022 00:36
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pentyne posted:Genuinely curious how Name of the Wind skyrocketed to the top of so many reviewer lists. Easy to digest while it has the feeling of depth and complexity. Couple that with a lot of forgiveness given to the first book because "there were so many possibilities." And for all it's faults, it is a well done audiobook that is aided by the fact that the passages don't hold up to repeat scrutiny but they sound nice on first pass.
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May 19, 2022 00:46
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PJOmega posted:Easy to digest while it has the feeling of depth and complexity. Couple that with a lot of forgiveness given to the first book because "there were so many possibilities." I did know someone who loved it because it 'sounded lyrical'. She agreed that they didn't hold up on repeat scrutiny, but she just wanted to read something that sounded nice.
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May 19, 2022 00:49
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Kchama posted:I did know someone who loved it because it 'sounded lyrical'. She agreed that they didn't hold up on repeat scrutiny, but she just wanted to read something that sounded nice. If you’re not at all familiar with poetry the books sound poetic. Poetic sounding poo poo about being better than everyone at everything without practicing; at magic school. You can see why the Harry Potter generation was ripe for “orphan goes to magic college”
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May 19, 2022 00:55
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pentyne posted:Yeah the street urchin phase is bizarre as hell, especially since he had all the same talents like being a music God and yet wasn't able to find a single way to turn those abilities into making money until his magic bath and stealing a noble clothes set. his d&d bard knew pick pocket, and he had to work out how he got it in his backstory
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May 19, 2022 02:26
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Kchama posted:Beyond what Pentyne said, it isn't even human kindness that 'brings him back to his senses', as him getting to the city in the first place involved a man and his son treating him kindly. He refuses to go with them to where they live and never seriously considers going after them and they're forgotten afterwards. Also, it was like six months until he went to the city, and then he stayed in the city for like three years like that. I read the book once 10 years ago, and from what I remember, all he does is stroll into a high end clothing shop looking exactly the same, and just puts on airs and speaks like a noble child who was mugged and needs an outfit, maybe says something or name drops someone he knows makes them take him seriously. Reads like it takes zero effort, works instantly, and within 24 hours he's literally completely different. I can't remember why, was it he managed to save up a paltry sum but enough to get into magic school? What in the book actually triggered the "welp, time to leave" moment?
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May 19, 2022 02:40
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pentyne posted:What in the book actually triggered the "welp, time to leave" moment? It's gonna be stupid, you know, but: 1. The storyteller Skarpi is telling stories at the tavern about heroes and, importantly, the Chandrian. 2. The Inquisition (Justices of Tehlen), not seen before or since, show up and take Skarpi. 3. This all triggers an emotional breakthrough for Kvothe and he moves past the loss of his parents and the troupe and can think about the future again. 4. Which makes him think about the Chandrian, why they cared about his parents, and how he could learn how to get revenge. 5. Hence, the University.
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May 19, 2022 02:56
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pentyne posted:I read the book once 10 years ago, and from what I remember, all he does is stroll into a high end clothing shop looking exactly the same, and just puts on airs and speaks like a noble child who was mugged and needs an outfit, maybe says something or name drops someone he knows makes them take him seriously. Reads like it takes zero effort, works instantly, and within 24 hours he's literally completely different. That's basically how it happened, yes. He was incredibly smug and demeaning about it all, too. ulmont posted:It's gonna be stupid, you know, but: This is correct, yes. Reminder that the HQ of the Inquisition is just down the road from Imre, City of Magic. Also, it's very blatantly 'hinted' that the Inquisition dude was one of the Chandrians, which would be cool if anything came from it. Also a reminder that Kvothe was so amazing in his exam that he was paid to attend Magic College.
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May 19, 2022 03:19
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It's crazy to think that back in 2012 after reading the books once and putting them down I really thought there was some n'th D chess going on and it was going to be an amazing third book that explained everything. Reading these threads literally reminded me of the parts of the book I just glossed over or forget, aside from me literally going "what the gently caress...." for many parts of book 2 and then looking back to realize that they were genuinely bad even in the unreliable narrator sense because of the writing itself. It's part of the trash taste palate where if you mostly consume low quality garbage, you don't have a good understand of what makes something good. I've never quite turned on a piece of media I got super into quite as hard as this. I know the warning sign was when I gave the person who introduced me to Book of the New Sun a copy of NoTW and when I asked what they thought they looked at me kind of weird and said it wasn't very good.
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May 19, 2022 03:37
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Wise Man's Fear is very clearly why Rothfuss's star dimmed so much. It's just an awful book in every single way. Name of the Wind isn't good, to say the least, but at least it seemed to have some sort of clue what it was doing. And then WMF came out and made it clear that nope, Rothfuss had zero clue what he was doing and anything that seemed cool in the original was little better than an accident.
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May 19, 2022 03:51
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It doubled down and then some on the worst parts of the first book. Part of me is glad I read it if only when lovely garbage in other fantasy stuff pops up I can go "well, it at least it isn't as bad as the poo poo Rothfuss writes". Not that it excuses that skeevy, gross trash in those books but it could have been so much worse.
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May 19, 2022 03:55
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pentyne posted:It's crazy to think that back in 2012 after reading the books once and putting them down I really thought there was some n'th D chess going on and it was going to be an amazing third book that explained everything. There's the potential for amazing levels of kayfabe and unreliability in narrators that are hinted at in the first book but the promise is very much not paid off, if it was ever really intended.
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May 19, 2022 04:06
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Jimbot posted:It doubled down and then some on the worst parts of the first book. Part of me is glad I read it if only when lovely garbage in other fantasy stuff pops up I can go "well, it at least it isn't as bad as the poo poo Rothfuss writes". Not that it excuses that skeevy, gross trash in those books but it could have been so much worse. The most baffling part was how it just decided the whole gimmick of the first book that people liked, the "Oh do you SEE?" aspect of how all the legendary stuff was actually mundane (I mean, set aside the dragon), but then WMF is just "Oh yeah he actually did gently caress a sex goddess so hard she thought he was some sex genius and then wrote a dumb half-song but then didn't finish it and this made her let him go" and THEN "Oh yeah he visited the sex ninjas and was trained in being a ninja, and also sex". Ugh.
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May 19, 2022 04:08
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The one thing I remember particularly finding interesting at the time were the snippets of stories we get about what happened in the distant past. The implication seemed to be that the arrested storyteller's story about Lanre, the fantasy-bible's story of the life of fantasy-Jesus, the children's fairy tale about the boy who fell in love with the moon and stole it, etc were all meant to be retellings of the same historical event, but viewed through very different lenses and corrupted over time in different ways and with different degrees of literal-historicalness-versus-adaptation. If that had been done well, I could see myself getting really into the piecing the truth together from several contradictory narratives with various levels of distortion. But there's only a few of those to work with, and there's no actual worldbuilding on which to base any theories or interpretations of them beyond "Skarpi's version is the literal truth and Kvothe was right to call Denna a stupid whore for writing a song where Lanre's not pure evil", and that's only like ten pages out of two thousand, and Rothfuss has no actual idea how myths and stories evolve over time to do it right.
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May 19, 2022 08:57
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I think that if your defense of a story is "well maybe it's all made up and the last book reveals what really happens" it only works as a defense if the last book comes out. I wonder what % of the die hard fans are into the Kool aid for the unreliable narrator aspect and which of them just think he's a truth telling badass "anti" hero. The Denna stuff is by far some of the worst, since it carries over into the current setting making it seem important, and Kvothe literally has a incel nice guy breakdown moment with her after loving a sex fairy so good he ruins her.
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May 19, 2022 19:30
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Kchama posted:The most baffling part was how it just decided the whole gimmick of the first book that people liked, the "Oh do you SEE?" aspect of how all the legendary stuff was actually mundane (I mean, set aside the dragon), but then WMF is just "Oh yeah he actually did gently caress a sex goddess so hard she thought he was some sex genius and then wrote a dumb half-song but then didn't finish it and this made her let him go" and THEN "Oh yeah he visited the sex ninjas and was trained in being a ninja, and also sex". I think I said this before, but if he was doing it on purpose it would be a good trilogy about the way myths work and do some interesting things about the interaction between people as people and people as subjects of stories. The first book could be about how relatively mundane things become big stories in the retelling, the second being places where the myths are accurate, and the third being places where the myths fall short of reality (the myth is that he killed an angel, but really it was a godlike being, or something like that). Rothfuss is not good enough to actually do this.
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May 20, 2022 18:16
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Oh gosh, all this griping about how terrible the second book is made me remember the "not all men" poo poo Rothfuss wrote when Kvothe was talking with a SA victim. What in the goddamn. That's how you talk to victims speaking through trauma, you "well akshually!!!" them into silence. He's such a loser.
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May 20, 2022 20:07
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Kchama posted:He's not even a sexpest in his first scene! In his first scene he cheats Kvothe out of some money and lets him get into trouble when he kept insisting to go into the Stacks (despite that being off-limits to uhh people who only just passed the exam). I thought in his first scene he was trying to PUA his way into hooking up with some girl at the Stacks but I'd have to re-read to see if I'm mistaken so I'll just assume I am. pentyne posted:Genuinely curious how Name of the Wind skyrocketed to the top of so many reviewer lists. The same way Twilight did and countless other garbage Though Stephanie Meyer actually capitalized on her chance fully while Rothfuss is busy creeping on girls at conventions and engaging in very shady charity activity. * I remember reading that section and when they fought it 100% reads like Kvothe used Felurian's True Name and never realized it, but that that is how he was able to survive and everything after, including her being "impressed" by him was because she was literally under his control. Again, if Rothfuss was actually a good writer then either the Felurian stuff would just be him getting taken in by some witch in the woods who people think is Felurian, or it'd be "yeah so I think I might've Named her and that's the only reason she didn't kill me like everyone else. Also please ignore the moral implications of what Naming her implies for everything we did after that." Jimbot posted:Oh gosh, all this griping about how terrible the second book is made me remember the "not all men" poo poo Rothfuss wrote when Kvothe was talking with a SA victim. That's the same victim who he drugged to put them to sleep and was caressing their face right?
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May 20, 2022 22:31
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Notahippie posted:I think I said this before, but if he was doing it on purpose it would be a good trilogy about the way myths work and do some interesting things about the interaction between people as people and people as subjects of stories. The first book could be about how relatively mundane things become big stories in the retelling, the second being places where the myths are accurate, and the third being places where the myths fall short of reality (the myth is that he killed an angel, but really it was a godlike being, or something like that). It really didn't help that he absolutely picked the wrong stories for which. The sex stories being the literally true ones was... well, a really bad idea. Evil Fluffy posted:I thought in his first scene he was trying to PUA his way into hooking up with some girl at the Stacks but I'd have to re-read to see if I'm mistaken so I'll just assume I am. That was his second scene. His first scene was telling Kvothe to gently caress off from the library place because Kvothe wasn't actually fully admitted to the University yet. And then later Kvothe comes back to go "Ok I'm a member, lemme in" and Ambrose was doing his PUA thing with Fela. quote:* I remember reading that section and when they fought it 100% reads like Kvothe used Felurian's True Name and never realized it, but that that is how he was able to survive and everything after, including her being "impressed" by him was because she was literally under his control. Again, if Rothfuss was actually a good writer then either the Felurian stuff would just be him getting taken in by some witch in the woods who people think is Felurian, or it'd be "yeah so I think I might've Named her and that's the only reason she didn't kill me like everyone else. Also please ignore the moral implications of what Naming her implies for everything we did after that." Rothfuss tried to have it both ways here, where Kvothe initially survived because he Named her, but then later he fucks her so good that her amazement is genuine, etc. quote:That's the same victim who he drugged to put them to sleep and was caressing their face right? Yes. That was from the original short story that Rothfuss entered into the contest, where it was suppose to be ambiguous whether Kvothe was a good guy or not as it was Rothfuss's first time writing Kvothe so him acting creepy was a red herring and the big reveal of how good he was was him murdering everyone (even the other victims of the bandits) because they dared make his people look bad. That is also why it is written so differently, because he just put it in the book with minimal editing for consistency. Which works better as an introduction short story and not 1500 pages into an epic, especially not after the part where he is poisoned with drugs that make him lose all inhibitions just to make it clear that he could never sexually assault a woman because he's just That Good that he can't do it even when drugged in a way that'd specifically take away any reluctance to do that sort of thing.
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May 20, 2022 23:26
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Dear Pat, I read TNOTW over ten years ago when one of my best friends randomly gifted it to me. The day WMF came out, he bought it and let me borrow it because he knew I’d finish it in a day given my passion for your work. Since then, I’ve encouraged countless friends, strangers, and acquaintances to seek out your stories. I’ve gone through the intermittent cycles of googling “the doors of stone” hoping I’ll finally get to learn the answers to the many mysteries in your stories. I’ve read the many interesting fan theories posted in this forum over the years, and I’ve speculated with my friends about Denna’s story and the truth about Lanre. I’ve bought your first two books in multiple formats. I still hope I get to read DOS one day. But I want you to know, even if I never get the pleasure of reading another one of your works, I truly appreciate what you’ve already accomplished. King killer is the finest piece of writing I’ve ever encountered, and I’ve read my fair share of books at this point. I am sad that so many fans have grown bitter and resentful towards you over the years. I understand their frustration. Your work is incomparable. They are Denner Resin addicts eager for another taste of your lyrical prose and narrative genius. I truly wish we could, at long last, achieve some sort of rapprochement between Pat and his fans on Reddit. I wish Pat could temper his frustration with his fans’…uhhh… eagerness—it’s his fault, ultimately, for writing something so good that people are still clamoring for more over a decade later. I wish our community could understand that Pat, like all of us, is a human being. And that the ever rising tide of vitriol towards Pat does nothing to advance their cause or the well being of a man whose ideas and creative genius they so obviously admire. I hope Pat and all of KkC fandom has a happy, healthy, and wonderful summer (assuming you live northern hemisphere). I’ll be back in a few months to read the latest theories and DOS gripes. Until then, cheers! Sincerely, A longtime KKC fan and very depressed law student
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May 24, 2022 23:55
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Yikes.
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May 25, 2022 00:21
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Solastor 33 points 9 hours ago He has an utter disregard for more than his fan base. I don't want to get into deep details in a public space, but I've been in a situation where he decided that a group I'm a part of would babysit his children at a convention where we were presenters without asking us while we were trying to do our poo poo. Just straight up left his kids, hosed off, and saddled us with them before we could even notice he was gone. I've other stories as well, but I don't really want to spread them in an open space. The man writes mostly competently, but is such an unbearable rear end in a top hat in every interaction I've had with him (with me not even acting as a fan or anything) that at this point I probably won't end up reading DoS if it ever actually gets released.
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May 25, 2022 01:43
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That Pat Rothfuss has children is terrifying and I wish those kids the best of luck. That poster should've called CPS right then and there and reported the kids as abandoned.
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May 25, 2022 02:03
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I was part of another writing community when NotW was first published, and Rothfuss joined to do the whole “hi I’m Patrick Rothfuss, published author” thing and then threw a poo poo-fit when we weren’t using ~*~compliment sandwiches~*~ when critiquing each other’s writing. That whole interaction put me off ever reading any of his books and it sounds like it was a good early warning system.
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May 25, 2022 03:09
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The first rule in the Rothfuss household is Do Not Touch The Cheerios Box Collection.
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May 25, 2022 03:15
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the ice cream invitation stories were enough for me to consign him the trash heap List of reasons to pass on rothfuss - Wrote a rapist in Tides of Numenora and asked you to question if he was really a bad guy - hosed up behavior at conventions quote:- I was at a convention and a recent acquaintance, a woman half his age, geeked out upon meeting him and invited him to sit and talk at a table with other fans. He offered her a private chat in his hotel room with the promise of ice cream. She says no at which point he promptly about faces leaving a trail of dust and beard hair behind him, just total cold shoulder. - the insanely gross Hobbit blog post quote:And sure, she was girl-shaped, and that was cool. And she was cute, in an understated, freckly way. And sometimes you’d stare at her breasts when you were supposed to be paying attention in biology. But you were 16. You stared at everyone’s breasts back then. quote:At a convention, I met Kvothfuss and heard him speak. He mentioned that he has "literally" hundreds of beta readers, but he had a rule for offering feedback, and the rule is thus: Don't offer advice on the sentence or paragraph level. That's his wheelhouse. He's spent "literally" hundreds of hours pouring over every line so the read goes smoothly "like water rushing over river stones". quote:But as I read more it all started sounding like a *huge* pain in the rear end. The books went on and on about about how I’m supposed to check the ph level and… I don’t know, hydroginize things or some poo poo like that. - His insane defense of not finishing the series quote:“The way that I write is largely implicit because if I wanted you to know more, I would’ve written it in the book. What I want you to do is wonder. And I have left treasure in there for people who want to wonder...and then wander...and then delve and theorize and bicker. I wrote this book not to be read the first time—that’s almost a byproduct. I wrote the book for people reading it a second time, so they go “oh, I couldn’t understand it, but now...”. pentyne fucked around with this message at 03:31 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 03:16
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