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Even something as seemingly innocuous as a laser printer can draw forty amps briefly as it fuses the toner to the paper.
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May 1, 2022 01:47
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I guess I will scratch printing off my list of things I planned to do during a long term power outage. 
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May 1, 2022 02:19
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What if it’s an emergency?
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May 1, 2022 02:21
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:A window AC would probably be worse than your mini-split. You can absolutely try your setup with the mini-split and just plan for the contingency that if the fridge kicks on while the AC is running while you're trying to microwave food that SOMETHING is going to be very unhappy. This could be any of the big loads and/or the generator. The mini-split may undervolt and not come back on for a long while; the generator may stall and you lose all power for a bit; the fridge may trip offline and go into some protective mode for longer than your food is good for.... If you were in a constrained-generation location (off-grid, boat, etc), then there'd be load-shedding set up, but that's overkill for a house.
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May 1, 2022 02:40
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:A window AC would probably be worse than your mini-split. You can absolutely try your setup with the mini-split and just plan for the contingency that if the fridge kicks on while the AC is running while you're trying to microwave food that SOMETHING is going to be very unhappy. This could be any of the big loads and/or the generator. The mini-split may undervolt and not come back on for a long while; the generator may stall and you lose all power for a bit; the fridge may trip offline and go into some protective mode for longer than your food is good for.... If you were in a constrained-generation location (off-grid, boat, etc), then there'd be load-shedding set up, but that's overkill for a house. When we had someone in to do a service upgrade/panel swap, they just disconnected the meter themselves & cut and recrimped the service entry connectors.. the only thing the power company was involve in was providing the meter pan. In theory the power company was supposed to come back out and inspect (and re-seal) the meter, but they never did even after they were notified.
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May 1, 2022 03:02
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devicenull posted:When we had someone in to do a service upgrade/panel swap, they just disconnected the meter themselves & cut and recrimped the service entry connectors.. the only thing the power company was involve in was providing the meter pan. In theory the power company was supposed to come back out and inspect (and re-seal) the meter, but they never did even after they were notified. Well, yeah. When I did my own service upgrade, I myself (as a homeowner) pulled the meter, did the upgrade, and put the meter back in. The inspector showed up a week or so after he was scheduled and gave me a green check. This is because I'd scheduled the power company to come out six times and they never showed and I was tired of having forty two glorious spaces of breakers sit empty. The power company asked me if anyone had been tampering with my service like two years later when someone FINALLY deigned to show up and noticed that the seal was still missing. The right way and the way it actually happens may differ depending on locality.
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May 1, 2022 06:15
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Slugworth posted:Running the numbers, unless I'm misunderstanding something, or not accounting for things like resistance You're not accounting for the generator manufacturer lying to you/assuming the generator is and always will be capable of operating at 100% factory target specs and the inrush current of starting an AC compressor - although in your case inverter based mini splits may make this a lot better on the starting side and then surprise you when they go to full tilt because you're now trying to run on generator on a hotter day than you've tried before. Things change once you're actually trying to make this stuff work in the field (particularly when you're running on the ragged edges of capacity), so whatever you end up doing or choosing to keep on or off make sure you practice this all ahead of time before you actually need it.
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May 1, 2022 15:29
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Slugworth posted:Oh, I'm not the guy with the mini split, mine is a standard central ac. If yours is a standard single stage ac that starts with a bang to full throttle you're going to bog down or stall your generator. Motors draw whole multiples of their runtime rated amount during a cold start. They draw the most going from stopped to moving just a tiny bit, and it falls off rapidly as it approaches run speed and load. Your breakers are designed to allow this safely and the grid handles this by being several zillion times larger supply than needed. Your unit helps smooth this out with the start capacitor. Larger the capacitor, better it's smoothed out. That bogging causes undervoltage (brown out) conditions which can damage sensitive electronics. Especially if you are already not getting a good sine wave already from the generator. In industrial systems there are surge ratings into several hundred % depending on the needs of the system, as well as capacitor (or battery) banks that are included in that calculation to further smooth all of this out. Your home portable generator has this rating as well, but it's going to be incredibly small, and only if the motor is "up to speed", low demand, and idling comfortably at line voltage. It may not be published, and is not really meant to be relied on. This is what people are harping on in a bit of round about way - small rating home generators just don't have the overdraw buffers to run large motor loads, especially not instantaneous loads. Even if they can handle 125% for 3s that's just not much if you need 200% for 10s. Inverter driven fully variable speed hvac smooth this out by making the whole startup to speed be a soft start, top end is still the same but you can also do things to manage this maxing out by setting the target temp very high and turning on eco mode.
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May 1, 2022 15:53
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They call me Mr. Minisplit. Well, everyone except you guys. I'm the one with the minisplits, the other poster has a single whole house unit. I piggybacked on the conversation since it was relevant to my recent installation.
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May 1, 2022 18:54
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H110Hawk posted:If yours is a standard single stage ac that starts with a bang to full throttle you're going to bog down or stall your generator. Motors draw whole multiples of their runtime rated amount during a cold start. They draw the most going from stopped to moving just a tiny bit, and it falls off rapidly as it approaches run speed and load. Your breakers are designed to allow this safely and the grid handles this by being several zillion times larger supply than needed. Your unit helps smooth this out with the start capacitor. Larger the capacitor, better it's smoothed out. Would something like this help? https://www.micro-air.com/products_easystart_368_softstarter_microair.cfm I can't actually tell WTF that does, the docs kinda just present it as snake oil...
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May 1, 2022 22:31
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devicenull posted:Would something like this help? https://www.micro-air.com/products_easystart_368_softstarter_microair.cfm It's just a larger capacitor, and they do help with inrush load. I run my RV air conditioner on a 4k inverter generator with no issues. However, it's only 15k BTUs at 25A, and horribly inefficient. I'd say a modern mini-split could run on a 7k generator with zero problems as long as it's less than around 20k BTUS, especially the super-efficient 19+ SEER units we're seeing now. I can't run the microwave and A/C at the same time, though.
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May 1, 2022 23:47
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When a motor is connected to the grid, it’s backed by effectively infinite generation. The bottlneck is the local wiring and breaker, and while those are not infinite in capability, the nominal ampere limit can be greatly exceeded and everything is fine as long as the excursion is brief. Everything is designed with this knowledge. Now, if you have a generator that’s rated at thirty amps, that’s more of a hard limit. You cannot pull ninety amps from it even for a fraction of a second. I just doesn’t have the raw size to provide that power, in either its mechanical or electrical parts. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 02:15 on May 2, 2022 |
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May 2, 2022 00:53
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Well thanks for the info folks, guess the generator will still be useful, but significantly less so than various "what size generator do you need?" articles and actual reviews of the generator in question suggested it would be.
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May 2, 2022 02:07
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devicenull posted:Would something like this help? https://www.micro-air.com/products_easystart_368_softstarter_microair.cfm When the rotor on a plain single phase induction motor isn't turning, there's zero torque & zero back back emf. The winding just looks like a resistance heater and will draw lots of current. As the rotor speeds up, it starts generating a back emf and the current into the winding drops. There's a couple of ways to deal with how to get the rotor initially turning, the common one for a medium sized appliance like an air conditioner is to have a 2nd winding that's fed a phase-shifted version of the main winding so that it starts turning. (Basically building yourself a crappy local knockoff of 3-phase power). A start capacitor is used in the circuit to phase shift the mains voltage. That widget is replacing the factory circuitry on the start winding with something that is hopefully a more ideal phase shift angle and bigger voltage than the factory circuit. That will increase peak inrush over small timescales, but also increase starting torque. If the motor gets up to speed sooner, it stops looking like a wire sooner and current might drop fast enough to not trip a breaker.
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May 2, 2022 04:11
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wallaka posted:I run my RV air conditioner on a 4k inverter generator with no issues. However, it's only 15k BTUs at 25A, and horribly inefficient. I'd say a modern mini-split could run on a 7k generator with zero problems as long as it's less than around 20k BTUS, especially the super-efficient 19+ SEER units we're seeing now. I have had no issues running an 18k BTU AC (250V-30A, 6-30P plug) as well as another in-room portable AC off of a Firman dual fuel 9400/7500W generator, but I haven’t done it for more than…12? Hours in a row.
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May 2, 2022 16:13
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I know this is a dumb question and deep down I know the answer, but I'm asking it anyway. We had some switches and outlets of an unknown provenance replaced, but probably around 10-15 years old. There's no use in saving them for reuse, is there? The 50 cent savings of not having to buy a new switch or outlet seem vastly outweighed by the fact that I have no idea what kind of life they've led. On the other hand, I've got, for example, a 3-way switch that was in place for about a week that the electrician installed, that I replaced with a glowing switch, that I feel confident enough to chuck it in the parts bin if I ever need a switch like that.
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May 3, 2022 18:10
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FISHMANPET posted:I know this is a dumb question and deep down I know the answer, but I'm asking it anyway. Old stuff just toss. New enough stuff I put in the parts bin to be tossed later. They're wear items and 15 years is old enough to be replaced anyway.
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May 3, 2022 18:24
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FISHMANPET posted:I know this is a dumb question and deep down I know the answer, but I'm asking it anyway. Always toss old and used up parts ~unless~ there's a chance you need to part match it in the future. For light switches I don't think that's a concern so junk it.
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May 3, 2022 18:24
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SpartanIvy posted:Always toss old and used up parts ~unless~ there's a chance you need to part match it in the future. For light switches I don't think that's a concern so junk it. Are they recyclable at all or just straight to the landfill? I have a box filled with all the almond colored switches / dimmers / plates that I’m pretty sure were original to my 1984 house sitting in the garage.
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May 3, 2022 20:19
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If you're really hell bent on it the switches and dimmers have some metal content but the plates are just trash especially if they don't have any flex to them. They're made of ABS these days but that old is probably some kind of unmeltable thermoset resin
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May 3, 2022 22:26
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movax posted:Are they recyclable at all or just straight to the landfill? I have a box filled with all the almond colored switches / dimmers / plates that I’m pretty sure were original to my 1984 house sitting in the garage. I just toss them 
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May 3, 2022 23:43
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They should be able to get ground up faceplate and all and then density (inertia flying off a belt) + magnetic sorted for recycling. Whether your local trash heap is doing that is anyone's guess. On their own though no one is going to be taking them apart to recycle.
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May 3, 2022 23:46
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Yeah, not interested in monetary value, more in the least Earth-murdering thing to do. Sounds like it’s just not economical for anyone to bother with them.
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May 5, 2022 21:14
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movax posted:Yeah, not interested in monetary value, more in the least Earth-murdering thing to do. Sounds like it’s just not economical for anyone to bother with them. Sadly right now those are directly mapped. Without a direct mandate on the manufacturer to recycle their items in a fashion that's cleaner than mining new resources it's never going to wind up happening. That being said they likely do wind up getting recycled at least in places that attempt to pull metal from trash streams and grind it.
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May 5, 2022 21:19
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I’m going to run some Cat6 on the outside of my house to the back to get to some cameras / access points. Will run it mostly in PVC to junction boxes along the way. Question is, when I want to exit a junction box to get to an AP or something — what do I use? Cord grip or similar? Seems like a common use case, just don’t know what to Google for. Has to be something besides a RJ-45 keystone under an in-use cover?
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May 15, 2022 02:30
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movax posted:I’m going to run some Cat6 on the outside of my house to the back to get to some cameras / access points. Will run it mostly in PVC to junction boxes along the way. Question is, when I want to exit a junction box to get to an AP or something — what do I use? Cord grip or similar? Seems like a common use case, just don’t know what to Google for. Stp weatherized keystones basically if it's directly exposed to the elements. I don't know the exact term but it's basically a keystone the wire goes into with a rubber boot thing. Lots of outdoor equipment will come with the right enough stuff though. Cameras will often just use a box they mount straight onto and you do the connection inside there. Or the way everyone else does it - yolo and pray it never gets hit.
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May 15, 2022 03:31
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Went to go replace an old halogen fixture on my garage and of course this is what I get I'm thinking my best bet is probably to put a surface mount junction box on the inside of the garage on the other side of the hole and just run the wires from the new fixture through the hole into the box?
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May 16, 2022 05:22
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Okay guys. Parents got a fancy as hell new HVAC system. 18 SEER, all inverter based, variable speed loving everything, etc. I'm pushing them to do a whole house surge protector, they don't want to spend pro money. I'm comfortable inside a live panel (though the main power feed goes directly into the main 100 amp breaker on this, from the other side of the wall - it's maybe 18" of wire at most from the meter pan outside into the main breaker). Their jurisdiction will do a wink wink nudge nudge on electrical so long as you don't pull the meter. What I'm running into is.. it's a mid 90s Challenger panel. I haven't had the dead front off in over a decade (only to disconnect the former microwave and range circuits - the original microwave was built into a wall above a single wall oven, the range circuit has never been used and ends in a blank box under a gas range, blank plate on the box). I'm not sure who keeps turning the drat range breaker back on..  but those two circuits are physically disconnected and capped off inside the panel, taped up, and have labels stating what purpose they used to serve (neutral and ground still connected on them).(fake edit: okay, guess someone turned the range breaker back on at some point.. I only see it every few months)   Can I do a whole house surge protector here? I'm guessing I'll need a tandem breaker that'll go under the existing range breaker (I'd rather not repurpose it, in case they decide to go to an induction cooktop). If I can, where does it get mounted? Inside the panel, or in the wall cavity below it? There's no crawlspace, I'm 99% sure no wiring exits from the bottom (if it does, it's 1 or 2 circuits - very likely the patio outlet circuits). All wiring that I can remember exits at the top and sides of the existing panel. What's throwing me is it's Challenger, the tag on the door says I can use Challenger or Westinghouse breakers. I can't recall the last time I've seen either in a big box store, but I don't exactly breaker shop often. This is the original panel from late 1994, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who's ever removed the cover (and only to disconnect the original range and microwave circuits). I'd also like to swap out the AC breaker to match the new unit if possible; the last 2 units kept the old school disconnect even though the breaker was severely overamped for the units (in fact, when the cap went on the last unit, it wound up melting one wire all the way from the contactor to the disconnect  ). The installers threw in a new 30 amp breaker for the outside unit and pulling new wire from it to the condenser (they said the wiring going to the disconnect was fine, which I don't doubt given it SHOULD have been sized for a 50 amp breaker.. they said the old unit was pulling 27 amps running).
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 08:31 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 08:24
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ErikTheRed posted:Went to go replace an old halogen fixture on my garage and of course this is what I get My memory of the code is that you are required to have an access point (e.g. junction box, receptacle, LR conduit box) on top of every wall penetration. Fixtures don't count as access points. So yes, put a box on there, then put the light on the box.
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May 16, 2022 15:22
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:My memory of the code is that you are required to have an access point (e.g. junction box, receptacle, LR conduit box) on top of every wall penetration. Fixtures don't count as access points. So yes, put a box on there, then put the light on the box. Cool, I think there's enough slack to get the wires into a box on the outside. Thanks!
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May 16, 2022 15:48
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movax posted:I’m going to run some Cat6 on the outside of my house to the back to get to some cameras / access points. Will run it mostly in PVC to junction boxes along the way. Question is, when I want to exit a junction box to get to an AP or something — what do I use? Cord grip or similar? Seems like a common use case, just don’t know what to Google for. The other thing you might need depending on your install case is a "cable gland", a wierd name for a waterproof box connector.
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May 16, 2022 16:13
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TacoHavoc posted:The other thing you might need depending on your install case is a "cable gland", a wierd name for a waterproof box connector. Yeah, cable gland is what I'm used to working on industrial / automotive / rail type stuff, but if there is anything I've learned about resi/commercial stuff, there are weird slang terms for everything. That would definitely be the way to hit IP6x levels of sealing and exit a sealed box, wasn't sure if there was a better way or not.
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May 16, 2022 17:21
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Our house has some lovely external hanging lights and a security flood light that appeared to be plugged into extension cords wired into an exterior light which I'm looking at fixing (getting rid of everything except the lamp). I think it's a simple enough fix to take care of without needing to get an electrician (and is much to small for any of them to even have a conversation with me right now), but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I don't have perfect pictures, but in here's what I'm looking at taking the lamp off the wall:  the thick two thick green cords on the top are the outdoor extension cords with the left one going to the hanging lights and the right one going to the security light. I believe I would just cut the electrical tape (there's no wire nuts) and pull the white and black wires from the two extension cords. There are also two green (Ground?) wires from the extension cords are just twisted to each other (effectively doing nothing I think), so I can cut those and then dispose of both of the extension cords. I would then just take the remaining white and red wire from the lamp and reconnect those to the white/black line from the house with a wirenut/electrical tape (after stripping the ends of all the wires). Only other issue I'm not sure of is that the braided ground wire from the lamp is connected to the ground screw of the bracket, but I don't see anywhere that a ground wire is connected to either that screw or the bracket at all. I do see a copper wire just sitting on the upper left so I think I just need to secure that with the nut to the left of it and that takes care of that? Or do I need to pull it and secure it with the ground screw as well?
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May 18, 2022 05:11
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STR posted:What's throwing me is it's Challenger, the tag on the door says I can use Challenger or Westinghouse breakers. I can't recall the last time I've seen either in a big box store, but I don't exactly breaker shop often. This is the original panel from late 1994, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who's ever removed the cover (and only to disconnect the original range and microwave circuits). Eaton BR type breakers are cross listed for Challenger Type C. Apparently it would also be wise to replace every breaker in the panel with a modern Eaton as the Challengers can be problematic. Given that, you should then also be able to just pop in an Eaton BRNSURGE in there as it connects exactly like a duplex BR breaker, with a pigtail over to the neutral bar.
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May 18, 2022 07:09
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So, I have a question. A major electrical line is about two yards outside my window. It has a big thick ridged cylinder around it. Something is going hmmm at a semi-regular interval. Is the round thing a transformer, and is the humming normal? Cellphone picture taken intno the sun through a window screen, sorry.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-x8ZpWQSLM
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May 19, 2022 00:56
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Arsenic Lupin posted:So, I have a question. A major electrical line is about two yards outside my window. It has a big thick ridged cylinder around it. Something is going hmmm at a semi-regular interval. Is the round thing a transformer, and is the humming normal? That's a splice box for cable tv wire. It's a low voltage signal, and most easement/setback rules for it are 'as long as it doesn't rub on things when it's windy'. It's also why it's the lowest on the pole, nothing bad is gonna happen if you bump it or grab it. Power lines are generally up much higher and have a much larger setback requirement. Edit: The humming is most likely the actual electrical lines further up.
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May 19, 2022 01:17
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:That's a splice box for cable tv wire. It's a low voltage signal, and most easement/setback rules for it are 'as long as it doesn't rub on things when it's windy'. It's also why it's the lowest on the pole, nothing bad is gonna happen if you bump it or grab it. Power lines are generally up much higher and have a much larger setback requirement. Thank you!
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May 19, 2022 02:20
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Barenaked Ladies fan eh?
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May 19, 2022 03:19
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Inner Light posted:Barenaked Ladies fan eh? Very much so.
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May 19, 2022 04:38
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at night does this light up your room?
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May 19, 2022 11:55
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