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is it weird to write letter chord names with the figured bass inversion symbols? i have the urge to do that a lot cause slash chords look cluttered when you have a bunch in succession
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May 3, 2022 22:27
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landgrabber posted:is it weird to write letter chord names with the figured bass inversion symbols? i have the urge to do that a lot cause slash chords look cluttered when you have a bunch in succession Whatever helps you get the correct sound out man  I am now done with music theory and piano proficiency for my undergrad now that this semester is over. Still hate analysis but drat I can write 4 part harmonies like a mf now.
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May 3, 2022 23:00
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landgrabber posted:is it weird to write letter chord names with the figured bass inversion symbols? i have the urge to do that a lot cause slash chords look cluttered when you have a bunch in succession only problem is that writing a triad in 1st inversion looks too similar to a writing a 6 chord (i.e., a triad with an added 6th), which is a chord that is likely to appear from time to time in jazz. if you are writing it for yourself, anything works, but if you were writing it for me (or someone else who doesn't play a lot of classical music) i would prefer the ugly slash chords
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May 4, 2022 15:44
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I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction for modal guitar. Right now I'm doing the "guitar cheat" thing where I've memorized the major scale pattern up and down the fretboard and just move it to play modally (or at least I think I am?) For example, I'll put on a backing track in the key of E minor, then play the G major scale (over the entire fretboard) over it to play Aoelian. Or the D major scale to play Dorian. This just seems "too easy" to me and I feel like I'm doing something wrong and not really grasping what modes are or how to use them. Anybody can clear this up for me or point me in the right direction to learn more/what I'm doing wrong? Thank you very much
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May 12, 2022 19:03
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Yeah, you aren't playing different modes, you're still just playing a major scale, which is the same as an Ionian scale. A type scale can be characterized by the intervals between each note in the scale. For example, in a C major scale you have: major 2nd (M2) between 1st and 2nd note, M2 between 2nd and 3rd, minor 2nd (m2) between 3rd and 4th, M2 between 4th and 5th, M2 between 5th and 6th, M2 between 6th and 7th, m2 between 7th and 8th So, M2, M2, m2, M2, M2, M2, m2 Regardless of what note you start on, if you keep this pattern, it is a major scale. So, if you play the same pattern on your fretboard on different parts of the neck, you're still just playing the same type of scale. A different type of scale, Dorian for example, has this pattern: M2, m2, M2, M2, M2, m2, M2 If you play that pattern anywhere on the neck, you're playing a Dorian scale. Notice that this pattern is the same as the pattern for a major scale, but shifted over by one note. If you take the pattern you know for a major scale, but start and end on the second note, that's Dorian. For the rest of the modes, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and Locrian, it's the same deal, except you take the major scale and start on the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, notes, respectively. Collectively these are called the Diatonic Modes. tl;dr: the major scale, and all the diatonic modes have their own patterns on the fretboard that are different from each other. bltzn fucked around with this message at 20:01 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 19:57
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I bought some really cool piano flash cards that I use to modulate around. You're really close on the idea. https://i.imgur.com/l8Gbbg4.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/r4icxAT.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/uxjfDIL.jpeg The e minor scale is the g major scale. If you want to play in E Dorian, it's the F# major scale. Also I could be way wrong Edit: as I have it set up, I can build a progression and then modulate it by literally moving the cards and transpose by going up or down a row
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May 12, 2022 20:17
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I rely on the Guitar Grimoire Scales and Modes book a lot
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May 12, 2022 20:21
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JesustheDarkLord posted:The e minor scale is the g major scale. If you want to play in E Dorian, it's the F# major scale. You're getting some concepts mixed up. The e minor key signature is the same as the G major key signature. A major scale can never also be a minor scale or any other type of scale except a major scale. Same goes with any other scale
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May 12, 2022 20:40
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Thanks for all the help everyone! Time for me to study everything everyone posted here. The one thing I'm unclear about is WHEN to play the correct shapes. For example, if I'm soloing over G > C > D, and I want to play Mixolydian, would I play the G myxo pattern over the G, the C myxo pattern over the C, etc? Or would I just use the G myxo pattern for the whole progression? Or am I still misunderstanding how they work?
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May 12, 2022 21:28
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If you're up for some YouTube, check out the Signals Music Studio channel. He's done a ton of work describing how to use modes on guitar.
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May 12, 2022 22:09
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Kvlt! posted:Thanks for all the help everyone! Time for me to study everything everyone posted here. Could be wrong (I've also been trying to tease out this stuff over the past couple months) but I don't know why you'd wanna play mixolydian over all 3 of those chords. If you were in G major you'd play the major over G, the C lydian over the C, and the D mixolydian over the D. If it was G mixolydian (but I see this way less), you'd do C ionian and D dorian. You end up in G mixolydian a lot starting in/from C major as I, but that's in the context of G as a 5th of C This has the advantage of keeping everything diatonic, and you can kinda derive a lot of this stuff by playing the same notes of the scale of the key you're in just going from like 2nd to 9th instead of 1st to 8th. And I think this lets you kind of suggest different harmonies by for example naturalizing the sharp 4th in lydian (so it feels more like ionian) as a blue note but I am now talking completely speculatively/out my rear end instead of just kind of
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May 12, 2022 23:02
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ColdPie posted:If you're up for some YouTube, check out the Signals Music Studio channel. He's done a ton of work describing how to use modes on guitar. This is a great channel. Thanks! JamesKPolk posted:Could be wrong (I've also been trying to tease out this stuff over the past couple months) but I don't know why you'd wanna play mixolydian over all 3 of those chords. If you were in G major you'd play the major over G, the C lydian over the C, and the D mixolydian over the D. If it was G mixolydian (but I see this way less), you'd do C ionian and D dorian. You end up in G mixolydian a lot starting in/from C major as I, but that's in the context of G as a 5th of C Thanks for taking the time to write this, but a lot of it is already over my head. I think I need to go back and really lock down my basic theory before I get too deep into modes. When you say "C lydian over the C and D myxo over the D" why is that? How do you know which mode to play over which chords?
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May 13, 2022 03:37
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Kvlt! posted:This is a great channel. Thanks! Again, disclaimer that I'm really in a similar spot and all this stuff should have "... I think" caveats. There's a circle of modes going Ionian -> Phryggian -> Dorian -> Lydian -> Mixolydian -> Aeolian -> Locrian -> Ionian (major) Or Aeolian -> Locrian -> Ionian -> Ionian -> Phryggian -> Dorian -> Lydian -> Mixolydian -> Aeolian (minor) Corresponding to scale degrees, which is like a breakdown of what mode to play for that degree to make sure the scale is using notes that are in the key you're in, for all the notes/degrees. So like Major being Ionian, if you play a scale in Ionian G great you're grooving for the I chord. If you move to the IV chord of the key, then playing Ionian C (c major) would mostly be fine except the C has a F natural, and the G has a F#, so to resolve this you sharpen the 4th degree of the C chord and then you're in Lydian. Still playing notes that are in the G major scale, cause that's your key, even though you're in C. Then moving to the V, the D chord, you are mostly there again sticking to the same notes (F# and the rest are white keys), but from D, that means your 7 is flat (it's a C and D major has a C#/Db). Subbing to stay in key gives you a dominant 7th chord, or a mixolydian mode (major w/ a minor 7th). These are rules to break if you want, but like the natural 4th when you're playing over the IV chord in a major key sticks out, clangs a little more than the sharpened one. And like for the above examples, you're not gonna notice except on the 4 of the IV and the 7 of the V, though other modes/degrees get a little wilder
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May 13, 2022 05:14
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JamesKPolk posted:Ionian -> Phryggian -> Dorian -> Lydian -> Mixolydian -> Aeolian -> Locrian -> Ionian (major) mostly right, but Dorian is supposed to come before Phrygian
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May 16, 2022 14:05
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Kvlt! posted:I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction for modal guitar. It's recommended that you also try to understand modes in terms of how each mode differs from the major scale, or maybe how it differs from the minor scale. For example, if you want to play G mixolydian, instead of playing the C major scale starting on G, you should also be able to play the G major scale but with a flat-7 instead of a natural 7. Another example, if you want to play D dorian, instead of playing C major and start on D, you should be able to play the D major scale, but with a flat-7 and a flat-3. Or if its easier, you should be able to play the D minor scale but with a natural-6 instead of a flat-6. It's not that your way of understanding it is wrong, it's not wrong! But thinking about modes in this other way can help you reason about them faster and with less effort when you are trying to improvise. It's good to have both.
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May 16, 2022 14:21
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HA is right - you definitely want to think about modes in relation to their parallel major or minor key rather than "C major = G mixolydian = D dorian" etc. each mode has a characteristic sound that defines it, and it's important to practice hearing that sound. for example, put on an A minor backing track, and noodle around in A natural minor. then, start playing an F# instead of F natural for A Dorian. that'll give you a sense of how Dorian differs from natural minor. now you have this sound available, as a tool, whenever you're improvising in a minor key. now, practice the same thing with the other modes and their corresponding color tone: Major modes: Ionian, Lydian (#4), Mixolydian (b7) Minor modes: Aeolian, Dorian (natural 6), Phrygian (b2) (ignore Locrian for now) if you don't yet know how to construct major and minor scales for a given key yet, work on that first. same if you don't know what i mean by the various intervals. always make sure you know what notes you're playing in addition to the scale's shape on guitar.
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May 18, 2022 13:40
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Helianthus Annuus posted:mostly right, but Dorian is supposed to come before Phrygian hah! I knew something looked off. Anyway, hence all the disclaimers, this is the level of error I'm making
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May 19, 2022 02:19
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JamesKPolk posted:hah! I knew something looked off. Anyway, hence all the disclaimers, this is the level of error I'm making i wonder if you were thinking about Phrygian's b2, then something like "flat-2 immediately follows the root note" somehow turned into "Phrygian is the next mode after Ionian" a.p. dent posted:Major modes: Ionian, Lydian (#4), Mixolydian (b7) if this right here were the beginning-and-end of what you know about the modes, it would be enough to use them fluently! And it's easier to remember each mode's characteristic tone than it is to remember their sequence in the major scale.
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May 19, 2022 04:09
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What exactly is it when you transpose a phrase by a few semitones? It's some sort of key change, but I'm having trouble quickly identifying what. Say, for example, that I have this sorta chugging placeholder bassline for a metal(-ish) track in IIRC A minor: https://voca.ro/1gm0ee1UoJeB It starts off in the key of A minor (A B C D E F G), then drops two semitones down to what I think is G Aeolian (G A B♭ C D E♭ F G). I haven't really studied diatonic scales, and am really only used to whatever's happening with majors and minors. So, I don't know if this is a common pattern despite it showing up a lot if you just gently caress around and transpose by a small number of semitones. Does transposing entire phrases by a number of semitones (aside from a perfect fifth, obviously) have a particular name? Is it a known thing?
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May 29, 2022 19:41
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Without any other musical context it just sounds like plain old chord progression in one key.
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May 29, 2022 20:02
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Is it really a chord progression in a single key if it shifts to incorporate notes that aren't in the home key (i.e. B♭)?
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May 29, 2022 20:08
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Yep. You can have non-chord notes that simply function as non-chord notes.
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May 29, 2022 20:19
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You might also be looking for the term "sequence."
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May 30, 2022 03:34
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Pollyanna posted:What exactly is it when you transpose a phrase by a few semitones? It's some sort of key change, but I'm having trouble quickly identifying what. I only hear three notes in the A minor part, then another three notes in the G minor part -- I hear A C D; then i hear G Bb C. In both parts: root, minor third, perfect fourth. These notes could all be diatonic to the key of F major, which would make it A Phrygian going to G Dorian. But the notes are few enough to allow for other possibilities too. Pollyanna posted:Is it really a chord progression in a single key if it shifts to incorporate notes that aren't in the home key (i.e. B♭)? There aren't enough notes to establish the key, so there isn't enough musical information for the ear to hear the Bb as non-diatonic. Because we haven't heard any notes that could rule out the possibility that we're in F major. I wouldn't call it a chord progression if it's just two chords, I would call it a "vamp".
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May 30, 2022 04:49
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To help answer your question, I use the term "planing" to describe a situation where you play some chord, then play the same chord voicing but shift the whole thing up or down so that you don't change the intervals that make up the chord. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_harmony I especially use that term when the following chord includes notes that aren't in the key that the first chord came from. I also sometimes say "constant structure" but that has its own wikipedia article, even though my understanding is that it's the same thing as "planing". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_structure Maybe there's a subtle difference that someone can tell me to help me appreciate the distinction?
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May 30, 2022 04:55
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Pollyanna posted:What exactly is it when you transpose a phrase by a few semitones? It's some sort of key change, but I'm having trouble quickly identifying what. i'm a little confused about what you're looking for. you've kind of given the definition of transpose, so that's what i'd call it. is there any reason you specified "A minor", then "G Aeolian"? Aeolian is the mode name of natural minor, so i wasn't sure if that was intentional. more generally, any note is possible in any key, depending on context. using the notes of a different scale doesn't mean the key has changed. this is more about how it feels - is there a different note or chord that sounds like "home", where the music resolves? or, has the quality changed from major to minor or vice-versa? if so, you probably have a key change (also known as "modulation"). if not, you're probably just emphasizing different notes, but the key of the piece hasn't changed.
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May 31, 2022 17:56
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a.p. dent posted:i'm a little confused about what you're looking for. you've kind of given the definition of transpose, so that's what i'd call it. i agree its correct to call it transposition. i would also agree to calling it "G minor" instead of "G Aeolian". when someone asks me for "A minor," to me, that means "Definitely m3, but M6 is possible, m2 is possible, M7 is possible, lots of things are possible". But if i hear "G Aeolian" or "G natural minor", then i suppose i am meant to play m3, m6, m7, and to shun m2, M3, b5, M6, and M7.
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Jun 1, 2022 03:00
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i moveds my hands down two semis and makededs the notes what look like g aeolian on wikipedia 
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Jun 1, 2022 03:09
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Pollyanna posted:i moveds my hands down two semis and makededs the notes what look like g aeolian on wikipedia i learned my music theory on wikipedia, so i have to agree with you  Did it go like this? "it can't just be A minor and G minor, could it? It has to have a special name!"
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Jun 1, 2022 03:23
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G minor is two semitones away from A minor???? 
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Jun 1, 2022 03:26
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Put it this way: if we ended up in G Aeolian, and we didn't change keys, that means it wasn't just A minor, it was... A Locrian  Under that interpretation we are in Bb Major, not F major like I said before. Maybe audition notes from each key against your vamp, and see which vibe is more what you were feeling?
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Jun 1, 2022 03:41
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Can I get some recommendations on books with little assignments to keep me on task? I'd like to be able to do something generic for placeholders for video game stuff. If I had to pick a genre, then maybe classical (or epic classical?) vs anything like jazz, or blues. I can glean stuff from videos but I'd rather have something to lists out a topic for a bit and then urges me to do a 30-second something with it. That would at least give me something to post online and ask if I understood it at all. Independent of that, I wanted to find something on percussion and drumming. Teenaged Rocko would screw around in Impulse Tracker and repeat two chords (and sometimes do four!) without ever having any real command of percussion and I'd like to see if Older Rocko can maybe evolve from that.
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Jun 8, 2022 08:17
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Can I get some recommendations on books with little assignments to keep me on task? I'd like to be able to do something generic for placeholders for video game stuff. If I had to pick a genre, then maybe classical (or epic classical?) vs anything like jazz, or blues. I can glean stuff from videos but I'd rather have something to lists out a topic for a bit and then urges me to do a 30-second something with it. That would at least give me something to post online and ask if I understood it at all. since nobody has responded yet (and if anybody has more specific ideas, please chime in): what you're describing is essentially a college level intro to music theory class. any decent music theory textbook will either have exercises like you describe, or have a workbook on the side with lots of material like that. i would recommend the textbook from my theory class, but a) it wasn't particularly good and b) i don't remember what it was called
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Jun 8, 2022 19:45
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Can I get some recommendations on books with little assignments to keep me on task? I'd like to be able to do something generic for placeholders for video game stuff. If I had to pick a genre, then maybe classical (or epic classical?) vs anything like jazz, or blues. I can glean stuff from videos but I'd rather have something to lists out a topic for a bit and then urges me to do a 30-second something with it. That would at least give me something to post online and ask if I understood it at all. OP, i also dont have any recommendations either! I read The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine, but it sounds like thats not what you're looking for, because you say you aren't so interested in the jazz or the blues. I also am not much of a drummer, so I encourage you to post your question in Drum Thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3547037 But i didn't read many other books, i learned music theory like a language -- watched a bunch of youtubes where they talked about these things, until i could understand the jargon. I also used ear training phone apps on the train to work for several weeks. Since you said video games, i recommend this https://www.youtube.com/c/8bitMusicTheory Since you said you want to do assignments, and if you are interested in doing ear training like I did, you might like this https://www.musictheory.net/exercises When I listen to someone speak about music theory, or when I have something to say, I use my guitar and my ears to find the notes and the intervals to make sure i'm getting the names right. If you don't play a guitar, use a midi keyboard?
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Jun 9, 2022 04:35
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Can I get some recommendations on books with little assignments to keep me on task? I'd like to be able to do something generic for placeholders for video game stuff. If I had to pick a genre, then maybe classical (or epic classical?) vs anything like jazz, or blues. I can glean stuff from videos but I'd rather have something to lists out a topic for a bit and then urges me to do a 30-second something with it. That would at least give me something to post online and ask if I understood it at all. Hi friend. I found this book to be quite good and absolutely chock full of exercises both on staff and instrument. It's probably the best I've found for your topic (and boy I've blown a lot of money on bad theory books) ISBN-13: 978-1538101230, ISBN-10: 1538101238
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Jun 9, 2022 19:51
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Basic Poster posted:Hi friend. ugh, i ordered it, because i'm a massive idiot who will order literally every music book ever recommended to me. THANKS A LOT!!
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Jun 9, 2022 19:59
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a.p. dent posted:ugh, i ordered it, because i'm a massive idiot who will order literally every music book ever recommended to me. THANKS A LOT!! I get you, me too. But honestly that's the best one I've come across with exercises built in. As a more general treatise, I can't say enough about "how music really works" which was recommended to me by this thread. I don't think I've ever read a book that thick (1000 or so pages!) Ever and I could hardly put it down. It's amazing.
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Jun 9, 2022 20:20
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Yeah I'll try Music Theory and Composition: A Practical Approach from that. I figured a college-level book generally followed the format I wanted, but if I had to choose, I'd want one endorsed by somebody that didn't have it thrust down their throat. I'm surprised on the drumming/percussion thing. I guess I'll try the drumming thread at some point here.
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Jun 9, 2022 22:19
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i found this pretty chord resolution writing a song and wasn't sure if it has a name. the progression is: V7 -> bVI in a minor key. in Gm: D7 -> Eb. i guess this would be a deceptive cadence in major, but i hadn't seen it used in a minor key. really nice effect. now that i'm writing it out, it seems pretty obvious that it works due to leading tone resolution
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Jun 10, 2022 13:00
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a.p. dent posted:i found this pretty chord resolution writing a song and wasn't sure if it has a name. the progression is: sounds cool, i guess this sounds most similar to iii -> IV in a major key. Before I could get to my guitar, i thought it would be more similar to vii -> I, but no, its more like a iii -> IV to me, especially with the hint about G minor (same notes as Bb major, which has Eb as the IV chord). The Dm chord in the key of G minor can easily become D7 if we want to play in G harmonic minor. Normally D7 would want to take us to Gm in that situation, so I agree with calling it a deceptive cadence. So, nice find, mister dent
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Jun 10, 2022 15:04
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