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fnox posted:How? I'm sorry but just, how can it possibly be more destructive for Scandinavia, when the only one of the two that could possibly, feasibly attack us is Russia? Also, are you serious, Russian imperialism is "less destructive"? Largest mass migration thus far since Syria (which was also loving exacerbated by Russian imperialism), largest land war since WWII, a body count that is a quarter that of the Iraq War except within 3 months instead of 8 years. Get loving real. No, are you serious? You don't know about how destructive US imperialism has been? Maybe you should read up on the subject once in a while. The US has destabilized large parts of the Middle east, they've staged coup's which has lead to even more deaths, they regularly take part in wars/interventions whenever it suits their capitalist interests, to this very day they're still bombing loving Yemen dude. But even if it was less destructive it doesn't matter, I'm opposed to all imperialism, I'm not here to defend loving Russia or anything. gently caress imperialism in all forms. And we shouldn't join loving NATO
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May 19, 2022 20:36
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Nordic alliance would be too weak. A european alliance is not happening whilst Nato exists. So for common security it is the only real choice. And arent we Scandinavians also a part of the imperium of Western finance and trade ? We are plugged into it and will suffer greatly when it falls. Its too late now to pretend that we were ever apart from it or that we have different interests.
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May 19, 2022 20:55
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Kamrat posted:And we shouldn't join loving NATO The Swedish Chomsky
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May 19, 2022 21:29
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If it calms the leftmostests of us, it is a very real possibility that the Americans fold in of themselves over a couple presidential elections and leave NATO - as dumb as that sounds. Their isolationist streak has always been strong and that's an urge that grows popular exponentially in societies that starts succumbing to their own hatreds of themselves. The trouble with strenghtening the EU project in any military direction at all, let alone to be independent from the influence of the 5 (you know who they are. The anglo-saxons.), is that the north and east likes Washington a whole hell of a lot more than they like Paris-Berlin. (Sidenote, but important; European power/politics revolve around the FrancoGerman alliance. All the rest of us are arguably fringe members still, and however the norm might change in coming decades, we're a very long ways away from an balanced, integrated supranational Europe now.) But a NATO where the US has decisively stopped functioning as designed, or one better, abandoned the strongest geopolitical tool in world history, is much more well positioned to become that military dimension of a unified Europe that have been hypothesised. The need for it will still be there, american vacuum or not, the infrastructure hasn't gone anywhere, and it is easier to believe that Norway-Czechia-Italy et al finds a solution to that vacuum instead of dissolving the hard fought solution to their territorial integrity. Aka NATO. And that's a big reason to join NATO irregardless of the american future or any other.
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May 19, 2022 22:25
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:Well, you see, ehm, thotsky is a tankie. Tankie traditionally refers to someone who explains, and usually by extension supports (however regrettably), the necessity* of violence/warcrimes/etc. comitted by authoritarian communist/stalinist states and regimes. However, Putin is just a run of the mill fascist, running a fascist empire. People carrying water for fascists have a name too, and it's not tankie. *: Literally never actually necessary
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May 19, 2022 22:32
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Tankie traditionally refers to someone who explains, and usually by extension supports (however regrettably), the necessity* of violence/warcrimes/etc. comitted by authoritarian communist/stalinist states and regimes. However, Putin is just a run of the mill fascist, running a fascist empire. People carrying water for fascists have a name too, and it's not tankie. You have never had friends in RKU or KPLMR(r) have you
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May 19, 2022 22:44
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The Guardian is perfectly comfortable describing the stuff it publishes as propaganda (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/15/war-enabling-not-war-winning-how-are-drones-affecting-the-ukraine-war). Why does the term bother you guys so much? It's just another tool in warfare, the term itself carries no moral implications.
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May 19, 2022 23:01
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Kamrat posted:No one is forced to join a war but you're pressured to help out. On the other hand, NATO membership isn't strictly necessary. Ukraine deployed troops to both Iraq and Afghanistan, for example, but to be fair, illegal wars on false pretense were popular at the time.
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May 19, 2022 23:59
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In summary, NATO membership is a land of contrasts.
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May 20, 2022 05:34
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Rust Martialis posted:In summary, NATO membership is a land of defense contracts.
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May 20, 2022 05:48
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May 20, 2022 06:41
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A distinction without a difference, frankly
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May 20, 2022 06:44
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Baudolino posted:Would Sweden be willing to expel one or two kurdish activists if it really had to? Signs point to yes
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May 20, 2022 15:12
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TV2 claims monkeypox has a 1-3% mortality rate, Ritzau via DR (unclear if citing SST) claims it isn't dangerous to humans at all in a news story about WHO calling an emergency meeting. Glad our press is so consistently competent.
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May 20, 2022 18:51
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We're more likely to throw the turkish ambassador out of the country than to extradite anyone, let alone an MP. Turkey truly is deranged Russia lite.
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May 20, 2022 19:28
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SplitSoul posted:TV2 claims monkeypox has a 1-3% mortality rate, Ritzau via DR (unclear if citing SST) claims it isn't dangerous to humans at all in a news story about WHO calling an emergency meeting. Glad our press is so consistently competent.
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May 20, 2022 20:54
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Realistically, the more important question is: Does it scar you permanently? You do get to brag about having had something as exotic as monkeypox.
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May 21, 2022 09:21
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I was a snotty apolitical teen who didn't even get to vote and had no idea what either option could possibly entail, but I still remember seeing footage of Anders Fogh struggling to hold back tears when the result came in and understood on a visceral level that this was the good result. Complete coincidence but I found a box of my old PC games and in there was a cutout from a local political cartoonist. I am pretty sure this was published after Sweden voted no. 
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May 21, 2022 12:02
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Threadkiller Dog posted:We're more likely to throw the turkish ambassador out of the country than to extradite anyone, let alone an MP. Turkey truly is deranged Russia lite. gently caress Erdogan and gently caress his entire bullshit authoritarian chauvinist regime. Luckily this spat might be over soon as his country plummets into economic ruin.
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May 21, 2022 18:53
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Sweden and Finland signing over their sovereignty to NATO in 2022 when Trump and the Republicans, who are Russian puppets, are very likely to take even more control of the United States in 2022 and 2024 due to the recession and high gas prices seems counterproductive imho. Finland and Sweden might as well call up Putin and apply to join the CSTO directly.
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May 22, 2022 19:09
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NATO: the solution to and cause of all muskovite problems.
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May 22, 2022 19:16
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ted hitler hunter posted:Sweden and Finland signing over their sovereignty to NATO 
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May 22, 2022 19:43
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Cugel the Clever posted:In what way does NATO membership "sign over sovereignty"? Anything that involves two or more countries doing anything together is signing inner sovereignty. See also every discussion about the EU.
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May 22, 2022 20:00
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BonHair posted:Anything that involves two or more countries doing anything together
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May 22, 2022 20:20
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ted hitler hunter posted:Sweden and Finland signing over their sovereignty to NATO in 2022 when Trump and the Republicans, who are Russian puppets, are very likely to take even more control of the United States in 2022 and 2024 due to the recession and high gas prices seems counterproductive imho. Finland and Sweden might as well call up Putin and apply to join the CSTO directly. SYQ
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May 22, 2022 20:24
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Get your cspam brain rot posting out of here thanks
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May 22, 2022 20:25
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Cugel the Clever posted:lol, that definition is sooo broad as to be utterly useless No. Eurovision is a threat to Danish sovereignty.
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May 22, 2022 20:28
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I love these type of trolls where it's like a little game and you're supposed to not point out the glaring inconsistency in the statement.
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May 22, 2022 21:29
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BonHair posted:No. Eurovision is a threat to Danish sovereignty. Emmelie de Forest betrayed King Christian IV and the Danish veterans of Thirty Year's War! 
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May 22, 2022 21:53
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I can understand wanting a referendum for joining NATO. It is a big decision for the country with an implicit long-term commitment behind it, but has NATO asked for half the things being expressed as fears here? There are US bases in some European countries, but half of those bases are legacies of WWII where troops just never left. Even discounting those, the US hasn't established much of anything terribly eastern-facing; there's no American air bases in Poland or the Baltic States. Establishing American air bases hasn't been a demand of previous NATO membership. NATO itself was rather infamously fractured when the Iraq War kicked off. Remember Freedom Fries? France, a major NATO member, loudly objected to the invasion and steadfastly refused to participate. Hell, Germany, the country what with US air bases dating back to WWII, didn't participate. The UK joined because Tony Blair is a weird man with crazy eyes and an unsettling smile. It's reasonable to want the public to decide this major move in foreign policy, but good lord, keep an even keel.
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May 23, 2022 07:18
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Canada skipped Iraq in 2003, as a NATO member. We did have a few guys there, embedded in US units on exchange, plus a ship in the Gulf. No units though.
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May 23, 2022 08:24
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https://twitter.com/TClausen_/status/1528374554221064192
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May 23, 2022 10:15
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Ofaloaf posted:the US hasn't established much of anything terribly eastern-facing Incredible that anyone seriously buys this line. Are ABM defensive weapons, too?
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May 23, 2022 14:32
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I wasn't thinking about missiles, which fair enough with that. I was focusing on bases though, because the earlier discussion was talking about permanent bases and I assume such places that would involve lots of American servicemen in uniforms matching around and that was a factor in the issue.
Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 15:03 on May 23, 2022 |
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May 23, 2022 15:01
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Ofaloaf posted:I wasn't thinking about missiles, which fair enough with that. I was focusing on bases though, because the earlier discussion was talking about permanent bases and I assume such places that would involve lots of American servicemen in uniforms matching around and that was a factor in the issue. Going by the South Korean experience, the greatest concern with American bases would probably be a sharp uptick in local rape statistics.
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May 23, 2022 17:17
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SplitSoul posted:Going by the South Korean experience, the greatest concern with American bases would probably be a sharp uptick in local rape statistics. We had some big American military boat docked in Stockholm or whatever and two sailors instantly got busted in a prostitution sting like the very same night
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May 23, 2022 17:34
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Konec Hry posted:We had some big American military boat docked in Stockholm or whatever and two sailors instantly got busted in a prostitution sting like the very same night With Ukrainian prostitutes.
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May 23, 2022 21:27
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Konec Hry posted:We had some big American military boat docked in Stockholm or whatever and two sailors instantly got busted in a prostitution sting like the very same night Home of the brave, land of the free 
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May 23, 2022 21:34
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Pro-NATO people: ”we must join Nato because we can’t trust that other countries will help us if we are attacked!” Also pro-NATO people: ”hey silly gooses stop worrying about being dragged into a war because of Nato, members refuse to join in wars like, all the time it’s practically optional” Just funny how often I see these two selling points being used side to side without even a raised eyebrow
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May 24, 2022 12:49
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lilljonas posted:Pro-NATO people: ”we must join Nato because we can’t trust that other countries will help us if we are attacked!”
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May 24, 2022 12:53
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