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It failed because, as we discussed long ago, big heroes aren't interesting
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May 20, 2022 01:51
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Endless Mike posted:It failed because, as we discussed long ago, big heroes aren't interesting
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May 20, 2022 02:00
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Endless Mike posted:It failed because, as we discussed long ago, big heroes aren't interesting Give us an X-Men book of just Blob tending bar. Cheers: Krakoa
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May 20, 2022 02:24
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Nessus posted:What about big heroines? Those have a market niche. Don't stare, your mind fixates, next thing you're cruising some real weird chat rooms
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May 20, 2022 02:24
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Speaking of big heroes, for awhile I've had some vague urge to figure out what the Hulk's deal is. Like, I get his deal that he gets strong when he's angry, but how does that work as a 70 year long comic series? The only Hulk I've read is Planet Hulk, which I understand to be a unique Hulk moment, not representative of typical Hulk stuff. So anyway, the Barnes and Noble near me is closing and they had 40% off everything, I got there like 20 minutes before closing, so I blindly grabbed the two biggest Hulk collections they had. Which turned out to be The Incredible Hulk Epic Collections 5 & 6, containing The Incredible Hulk 138-178 and Avengers 88. Is that good Hulk? Is it representative of the larger Hulk oeuvre?
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May 20, 2022 02:42
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I'm not the biggest Hulk guy but it seems like those early Hulk issues are not well regarded and the runs to read are Peter David's on The Incredible Hulk and Al Ewing's recent Immortal Hulk.
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May 20, 2022 02:48
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Ultraman was just a boring comic, nothing about it really showed what was interesting about the character/setting. I also felt the 6 issue runs didn't give it enough time to really tell anything interesting.
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May 20, 2022 02:53
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Cloks posted:I'm not the biggest Hulk guy but it seems like those early Hulk issues are not well regarded and the runs to read are Peter David's on The Incredible Hulk and Al Ewing's recent Immortal Hulk. Well, poo poo. Azubah posted:Ultraman was just a boring comic, nothing about it really showed what was interesting about the character/setting. I also felt the 6 issue runs didn't give it enough time to really tell anything interesting. The big problem is that it jettisoned everything interesting about the original character and setting. The optimism and faith in humanity's potential is gone, it's not an ensemble piece, the SSSP isn't a group of professional, talented adults working together for the greater good, there isn't a huge variety of monsters and aliens. And instead of solid episodic stories we get a vague and uninteresting overarching plot that promises to eventually go somewhere, at some point in the future, assuming the series doesn't get canceled.
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May 20, 2022 03:05
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Gripweed posted:Well, poo poo. Depends how enthusiastic you are for very earnest cheesy retro comics, I've heard good things about that era. Also checked out some issues myself, I've been curious to sample different eras and stuff. That era is Herb Trimpe on art, who's one of the most loved Hulk artists. And Roy Thomas writing, seems like pretty solid fun stuff for the time. Erik Larsen has referenced it on Savage Dragon a few times, and worked with Herb too. https://savagedragoncomics.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/savage-156-herb-trimpe-hulk.png
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May 20, 2022 03:17
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One thing I will never, ever get over is the weird rear end posture Larsen draws in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmDU46xAtmU
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May 20, 2022 03:21
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Gotta love it.
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May 20, 2022 03:25
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:One thing I will never, ever get over is the weird rear end posture Larsen draws in Me before the video: "I mean it's probably not that weird, everybody's got a style" Me 5 seconds in: 
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May 20, 2022 03:42
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Hulk’s appeal, at least to me, is that he’s a big green angry guy that still fundamentally doesn’t want to hurt people. He mostly wants to be left alone and have people be nice to him. He’s strong and knows it, but he can’t quite make the logical leap that he’s scaring people or hurting them I’m typically not a fan of when they make Green Hulk intelligent. The childlike side of him is the more interesting part, imo
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May 20, 2022 03:49
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Gripweed posted:Speaking of big heroes, for a while I've had some vague urge to figure out what the Hulk's deal is. Like, I get his deal that he gets strong when he's angry, but how does that work as a 70 yearlong comic series? The only Hulk I've read is Planet Hulk, which I understand to be a unique Hulk moment, not representative of typical Hulk stuff. So anyway, the Barnes and Noble near me is closing and they had 40% off everything, I got there like 20 minutes before closing, so I blindly grabbed the two biggest Hulk collections they had. Which turned out to be The Incredible Hulk Epic Collections 5 & 6, containing The Incredible Hulk 138-178 and Avengers 88. Is that good Hulk? Is it representative of the larger Hulk oeuvre? Those books end two issues before Wolverine's first appearance. Got to hold a Hulk #180 yesterday, which was pretty cool. So, I've been thinking about the Hulk as well.
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May 20, 2022 03:57
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I have a massive nostalgia for the Len Wein and Roger Stern Hulk years (immediately after those Epic collections end) because those were some of the first comics (of my dad's) I read when I was a kid. It still holds a place in my mind and I go back to it a lot, they're classic while not being hokey.Open Marriage Night posted:Those books end two issues before Wolverine's first appearance.  
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May 20, 2022 04:19
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Cael posted:I have a massive nostalgia for the Len Wein and Roger Stern Hulk years (immediately after those Epic collections end) because those were some of the first comics (of my dad's) I read when I was a kid. It still holds a place in my mind and I go back to it a lot, they're classic while not being hokey. Honestly that whole run where Herb Trimpe is co-plotting with folks is amazing and worth the read. Ewing was pulling from it even in Immortal Hulk.
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May 20, 2022 04:32
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Wendigo's back there yelling at those kids to get off his lawn and have their fight somewhere else.
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May 20, 2022 05:24
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:One thing I will never, ever get over is the weird rear end posture Larsen draws in It's not that weird. My kid uses the same stance to push his peas around his plate.
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May 20, 2022 08:00
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Karma Tornado posted:maybe the Conan rights holders wanted some of that Shuma Gorath Lego set money and when Marvel told them that the giant one-eyed magic octopus fighting Dr Strange in a movie was actually a separate, legally distinct giant one-eyed magic octopus they balked at being treated like talent instead of business partners, who knows. Lol at CPI (or any of the pulp/adventure holding entities) being "business partners." They are glorified rights-vending machines and are all notorious for having incredibly stupid ideas that every licensee ignores. The stupidest idea that they keep having, of course, is setting up their own production companies to produce their own media. Collect your rents or indulge your creativity, buddy, don't let the one ruin the other.
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May 20, 2022 13:07
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oh, I know, and they're almost certainly doing this to try to milk a little more out of the license before Conan goes public domain and ends up in a Dynamite book where he hangs out with Mandrake the Magician or whatever, but if we're throwing guesses as to why a license might be pulled, why not go full hog.
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May 20, 2022 14:04
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That article linked said that Marvel chose not to renew the license, though who knows exactly. I'll say Dark Horse was ruling with Conan, and I liked the idea of them adapting every Robert E. Howard story. They got pretty close. The recent Conan books have seemed a little generic at Marvel to me, but you can't top Kurt Busiek adapting Howard I think. Always room for more takes on Conan though. I think with Conan for me, what tends to blow me away is the awe, wonder, and earnestness. When they make it a bit self-aware or campy or modern tone or whatever they're going for at Marvel, it just isn't as magic to me. I loved how it felt like a historical chronicle of a man's life as well at Dark Horse. Also when Conan goes public domain, will it be like Sherlock Holmes where later stories by Robert E Howard still won't be public domain for a bit etc? Not sure how that works. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 22:02 on May 20, 2022 |
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May 20, 2022 21:57
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I absolutely misread that Conan guy's statement, whoops.
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May 21, 2022 00:13
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Heavy Metal posted:
When it first goes public domain it will just be the first story, but all of Howard's Conan stuff was published in like a 5 year period, so the rest will also become public domain quickly. Any parts of his lore invented by other, later writers won't be public domain.
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May 21, 2022 00:30
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Mind you the trademarks for Conan won't be expiring which is a whole other kettle of fish
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May 21, 2022 00:44
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Gripweed posted:The big problem is that it jettisoned everything interesting about the original character and setting. The optimism and faith in humanity's potential is gone, it's not an ensemble piece, the SSSP isn't a group of professional, talented adults working together for the greater good, there isn't a huge variety of monsters and aliens. And instead of solid episodic stories we get a vague and uninteresting overarching plot that promises to eventually go somewhere, at some point in the future, assuming the series doesn't get canceled. Agreed, it's missing what made it special in order to make a mystery.
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May 21, 2022 00:59
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Gripweed posted:The big problem is that it jettisoned everything interesting about the original character and setting. The optimism and faith in humanity's potential is gone, it's not an ensemble piece, the SSSP isn't a group of professional, talented adults working together for the greater good, there isn't a huge variety of monsters and aliens. And instead of solid episodic stories we get a vague and uninteresting overarching plot that promises to eventually go somewhere, at some point in the future, assuming the series doesn't get canceled. This just sounds like Star Trek
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May 21, 2022 01:33
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Gologle posted:This just sounds like Star Trek Nerds are gonna be nerds no matter what the era. Gene and and the Tsuburaya crew was probably drinking from the same source. to be honest considering star trek ultraman batman and thunderbirds all hit in 1966 it was kind of a banner year for nerd tv
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May 21, 2022 03:53
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Cael posted:I have a massive nostalgia for the Len Wein and Roger Stern Hulk years (immediately after those Epic collections end) because those were some of the first comics (of my dad's) I read when I was a kid. It still holds a place in my mind and I go back to it a lot, they're classic while not being hokey. The crossroads era is also a lot of fun. I also highly recommend the defenders if you want some good hulk
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May 24, 2022 21:00
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from Chip! Zdarsky's latest substack, concerning characters being portrayed "incorrectly"Chip! Zdarsky posted:I always think of Dan Slott writing Amazing Spider-Man. The guy was on the title for ten years and there were still people complaining that he wasn’t writing Peter Parker “correctly.” I’m sorry but, after ten years, Dan’s version of Spidey IS the character . There’s so much “Spider-Man wouldn’t do that.” Well, I read that comic, it was published by Marvel and is all official so guess what, Spider-Man DOES do that (go down on Black Cat).
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May 25, 2022 15:14
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Lol I always thought he kind of sucked
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May 25, 2022 17:19
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Yeah I'm gotta flat-out disagree with Chip there. I don't care that he's his peer or corporate bedfellow, tenure does not dictate quality.
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May 25, 2022 17:39
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His post isn't really about quality it's kind of about meta-ownership of these characters and narratives. " I don't think Spider-Man would do that" vs " well Spider-Man did that so think about why he would do that instead of what you thought he would have done instead."
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May 25, 2022 17:45
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That doesn’t really make sense unless there is more to that quote but even in that reading jumping through hoops to validate writing you think is bad seems tedious?
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May 25, 2022 18:06
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I think he just wanted to make a joke about Spider-Man going down on Black Cat.
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May 25, 2022 18:12
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Spider-Man does what Batman won't
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May 25, 2022 18:20
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A true American hero.
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May 25, 2022 18:34
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I mean if you really wanted to do it the more obvious example is that with comics in general (and spider man in particular) nothing that happens in any creative teams run will matter when the next one comes up
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May 25, 2022 19:08
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It's ultimately the push and pull between the various writers and the audience. If fans and later writers like what you did with a character, it will remain a relevant touchstone for that character. If not, it'll be forgotten as soon as feasible. Well, unless the writers get into the Pym loop of "I will be the one to finally redeem x character of y characterization. poo poo, I reminded people about y again."
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May 25, 2022 19:31
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Nilbop posted:Yeah I'm gotta flat-out disagree with Chip there. I don't care that he's his peer or corporate bedfellow, tenure does not dictate quality.
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May 25, 2022 19:35
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Basically Chip is saying people are more bitching that they do like how Spidey was portrayed, and that "this is not how Spidey would act" is kind of a dumb argument after he has acted that way for like 100 issues. As a reader, i have zero ownership over Spider-Man, so how I personal think he "should be" written is basically meaningless, esp. when Marvel wants to portray him a certain way. They own the character. That is how he acts. I may feel that Ghost Rider should only be hunting down people who still says Friends is a funny show, but just because I feel that way, doesn't mean it's true. And someone can argue that a character has a certain 'history' of acting some certain way, but in comics nothing makes sense and nothing matters anyway, and how a character acted in 1997 is really not an indicator of how they should or will act in 2020 and beyond. The universe has probably been rebooted 5 times since then anyway. I agree 100% with Chip, he is not arguing quality, he is pointing out that comic readers have some unwarranted "ownership" over characters they in fact do not own at all. At least, that's how I read it. site posted:Spider-Man does what Batman won't Genesis does what Nintendon't enigmahfc fucked around with this message at 20:02 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 20:00
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