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Hi all, throwing together a Whitehack mega dungeon in an Arcanum-esque Industrial Age setting where I want the monsters and loot to feel like the Venn diagram overlap of the SCP Foundation and the works of Øyvind Thorsby. Other than Rutibex's book which I have purchased am and currently reading, any recommendations on modules, compendiums, and the like that would be good sources of inspiration for monsters, magic items, and weird poo poo to encounter? I have no issues converting material or adjusting it to fit, I just feel like the more weird monsters and magic items I can throw in the mix the better. The Hackmaster monster books were our go to back in the day so that is the ground floor of weirdness I'm trying to build off of. I'm sure there are some Dungeon Crawl Classics modules that have that vibe if anyone can recommend any.
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May 18, 2022 06:32
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Paladin posted:Hi all, throwing together a Whitehack mega dungeon in an Arcanum-esque Industrial Age setting where I want the monsters and loot to feel like the Venn diagram overlap of the SCP Foundation and the works of Øyvind Thorsby. Skerples’ Magical Industrial Revolution (probably have the name wrong), Into The Odd, Electric Bastionland, Fire on the Velvet Horizon are where I’d start
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May 18, 2022 06:39
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Paladin posted:Hi all, throwing together a Whitehack mega dungeon in an Arcanum-esque Industrial Age setting where I want the monsters and loot to feel like the Venn diagram overlap of the SCP Foundation and the works of Øyvind Thorsby. drat I need to pick up the pace I'm currently writting a dungeon module where D&D characters raid an SCP containment facility  You should check out the Dr Bob videos on YouTube they are a good collection of monsters that fit into D&D.For stuff I can reccomend the Fiend Folio from 1e is a very good monster manual full of all the weird poo poo. The mega-module Dungeons of Dread is extremely good. It contains Lost Cavens of Tsojcanth but more importantly Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, both of which are full of weird rear end monsters. Expedition is litteraly a crashed spaceship full of aliens and robots, you can reskin it as an SCP facility easily. Expedition also has a bunch of scifi loot and special rules for disintegrating yourself trying to figure it out. Dark Sun campaign setting is also a great source of horrors. Oh and Gamma World!
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May 18, 2022 06:51
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Paladin posted:Hi all, throwing together a Whitehack mega dungeon in an Arcanum-esque Industrial Age setting where I want the monsters and loot to feel like the Venn diagram overlap of the SCP Foundation and the works of Øyvind Thorsby.
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May 18, 2022 07:08
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These are all great, thanks!
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May 18, 2022 15:47
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Do any of you have experience with the way armor works in either edition of Black Hack? Or any alternate armor rules? Building the basic to-hit roll around armor type is a Problem when you're using a D&D base for different genres. But I haven't been able to wrap my head around how the Black Hack variants change the dynamic, since I've never played it.
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May 19, 2022 16:32
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Halloween Jack posted:Do any of you have experience with the way armor works in either edition of Black Hack? Or any alternate armor rules? Just build your specialty weapon system assuming that every AC value corresponds to a specific armor type. Even though the existance of monster natural armor and shields and enchanted armor and dexterity bonuses all make this not the case. That's what Gary Gygax did for 1e AD&D 
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May 19, 2022 16:41
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In Black Hack 2e at least, you roll against an ability score to avoid damage. If you fail such a roll, you can then choose to use your armor. Using your armor means taking one of the "armor dice" a particular piece of armor grants you and putting it in a "broken" pile. Doing this lets you ignore all damage from that hit, but you're down one die now. You then have to repair that armor die later when you rest. As an example, plate and mail gives you 4 armor dice, which means you can selectively ignore all of the damage from 4 separate hits in the same expedition.
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May 19, 2022 16:42
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Oh, I understand how the mechanics work. I'm just curious about how it changes the game when the difficulty to hit is determined by the PC's ability score and level, and armor doesn't affect the to-hit roll at all.
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May 19, 2022 17:03
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Rutibex posted:Just build your specialty weapon system assuming that every AC value corresponds to a specific armor type. Even though the existance of monster natural armor and shields and enchanted armor and dexterity bonuses all make this not the case. Apparently when actually running a game himself even he abandoned the 'Weapon type vs Armour' table for being a clunky waste of time.
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May 19, 2022 22:15
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I'm still astonished that he didn't even hint at a task resolution system in 1e. Like, roll under stat on a d20 is right there, and I don't doubt he would have done that kind of thing all the time.
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May 19, 2022 23:45
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sebmojo posted:I'm still astonished that he didn't even hint at a task resolution system in 1e. Like, roll under stat on a d20 is right there, and I don't doubt he would have done that kind of thing all the time. He teaches you the best task resolution system of all math 
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May 20, 2022 02:51
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The implicit 1E task resolution system is roll under d%, after weighing in all the factors you think are important, in 5% chunks. IDK, but my guess is that Gygax did spitball percentage chances in actual play -- but 1E is what you get when you try to write out that spitballing as if it was a real codified system you were using. You weren't -- but you needed to do it to wrangle all the bullshit that had grown around 0E into an "official" way of playing that was all "by Gary Gygax" without Dave Arneson.
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May 20, 2022 03:00
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Deptfordx posted:Apparently when actually running a game himself even he abandoned the 'Weapon type vs Armour' table for being a clunky waste of time.
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May 20, 2022 07:06
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Wow.
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May 20, 2022 07:20
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Yeah, the idea of weapon variation isn't a bad one, lots of systems use it. It's just done badly in 1E. I also wanted to differentiate weaons a little more meaningfully in my current OSE game. So I included a few new weapon traits. Including Armour Piercing as a trait for weapons good against armour like maces. Gives +1 to hit vs medium armour (Mail etc), +2 vs heavy armour (Plate). Same for monsters, just decide what their armour is equivalent too, a Dragon has heavy armour for example. Makes for real choices between weapons that do more damage (Swords etc) vs ones better against more armoured targets etc
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May 20, 2022 09:32
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Honestly all you need for a complex weapon system is to lean into damage types. Some editions of D&D do this with skeletons, making them have damage reduction to piercing or slashing damage but not bludgeoning. Just put similar resistances into every armor and suddenly the damage type matters, and weapons become more than their damage die.
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May 20, 2022 09:39
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cavegirl has solved the osr alignment argument once and for all and also provided a character option http://cavegirlgames.blogspot.com/2022/05/chaos-warriors.html
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May 20, 2022 09:53
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the keep on the borderlands is full of tax records
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May 20, 2022 09:56
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From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!
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May 20, 2022 10:08
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90s Cringe Rock posted:cavegirl has solved the osr alignment argument once and for all and also provided a character option I'm just laughing at the thought of showing this to ol' EGG and imagining his reaction. 
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May 20, 2022 11:25
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90s Cringe Rock posted:cavegirl has solved the osr alignment argument once and for all and also provided a character option * No player character above the age of 17 may become or remain a Chaos Warrior
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May 20, 2022 11:57
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Gonna play a Chaos Warrior Chaos Monk hell yeah man: http://hillcantons.blogspot.com/2013/01/new-ll-class-chaos-monk.html
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May 20, 2022 12:00
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Comrade Koba posted:* No player character above the age of 17 may become or remain a Chaos Warrior Powerful gently caress u dad energy
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May 20, 2022 12:19
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Cavegirl posted:Ideas like 'lawful good' or 'chaotic neutral' are word games designed to stop you thinking clearly
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May 20, 2022 13:01
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Playing Baldur's Gate I and II is making me really want to play something classic D&D-like. Playing Baldur's Gate I and II is making me really hate how a lot of D&D actually plays like: D&D seems to be one of those games that really ends up better when ported to a computer game that can handle all the calculations in the background and don't mind if you treat a fight as a tactical puzzle that you get multiple attempts at. I want to look at cool magic items and think about tactical matrices of weapon types, I don't actually want to encounter a monster with immunity to +2 weapons and less and 90% Magic Resistance, because that's the kind of thing that I can't imagine going any other way than a surprise party wipe and/or a feeling of having to basically outguess the DM on which kind of monster he's going to have show up.
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May 20, 2022 13:24
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Combat just takes so long on tabletop compared to a computer game. If you had 3 BG style encounters, even throwaway ones that aren't major threats, it would take all night to resolve. Aggressively using morale checks seems to help this somewhat, where a system like Knave has enemies making a check at half health, or if their leader dies, or if half of their number is killed, which can result in parley or retreat, which helps avoid spending several combat rounds finishing up a fight that's already decided as dumb monsters fight to the death. In BG, you just rest between each encounter so there's not really a strategic attrition of resources happening very often either, whereas in Knave maybe losing a few hit points wrapping up an encounter that was decided several rounds ago could have longer term impact on the party since they may be weaker in a subsequent encounter.
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May 20, 2022 14:20
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sebmojo posted:I'm still astonished that he didn't even hint at a task resolution system in 1e. Like, roll under stat on a d20 is right there, and I don't doubt he would have done that kind of thing all the time. I don't know why someone didn't release an XCOM-style 4e game, because its grid-based LOS combat system seems perfectly suited to all that positional math.
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May 20, 2022 14:31
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Does anybody have a recommendation for equipment catalogs out there? I’m thinking of mostly mundane equipment here, like the Arms and Equipment Guide from AD&D 2e, or maybe the GURPS Low Tech equipment gear. I want to have this kind of Sears-Roebuck, Whole Earth Provisions style catalog that players will be able to look through when “in town”. I’d prefer a physical book but if there’s a PDF that I can print and bind that fills the bill here, that’d be ideal.
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May 20, 2022 14:59
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Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, only available in PDF new but you might be able to find a used one out there.
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May 20, 2022 15:00
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"In all, I included the details because of insistance of some avid palyers that were in touch with me, regretted listening to them, for the RPG is not suited to combat simulation... As I noted above, we never used the weapons vs. armor type adjustments. – Gary Gygax, ENWorld Q&A, 7th September, 2005" every time this mealy-mouthed fucker even came close to admitting a mistake he blamed it on someone else
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May 20, 2022 15:48
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Rutibex posted:Some editions of D&D do this with skeletons, making them have damage reduction to piercing or slashing damage but not bludgeoning. I always felt that this was misguided: piercing should do basically nothing, blunt maybe some, but edged weapons are how to get through a bone. more to the point, I think we completely ignored this rule in every game I've played.
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May 20, 2022 15:57
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I feel like bare bone, no flesh to cushion the impact, blunt should be as effective as slashing.
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May 20, 2022 16:06
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Cutting through bone is pretty hard once it's dried out. You can try it for yourself the next time you have chicken wings or ribs.
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May 20, 2022 16:09
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Empty Sandwich posted:I always felt that this was misguided: piercing should do basically nothing, blunt maybe some, but edged weapons are how to get through a bone. I remember using it or something like it in 2e, but we also had weird possibly house rules that impacted what the thief could backstab--like a slime didn't really have a back to stab so you couldn't get bonus damage that way. Did we just make up that dumb rule as kids or did it have some foundation in a book?
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May 20, 2022 16:09
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I find it difficult to make different types of weapons and armor more interesting in D&D combat. It's all so abstract that pretty much any advantage you could name boils down to a bonus to hit and/or damage. Usually vs. other specific types of weapons and armor, and table lookup is exactly what I want to avoid
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May 20, 2022 16:18
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Empty Sandwich posted:"In all, I included the details because of insistance of some avid palyers that were in touch with me, regretted listening to them, for the RPG is not suited to combat simulation... As I noted above, we never used the weapons vs. armor type adjustments. – Gary Gygax, ENWorld Q&A, 7th September, 2005" Weird, I don't remember ordering this poo poo sandwich. I kid, but honestly it is a really lovely response. Coming from the video game world, one of the refrains I heard a lot was that player feedback is essential--- but that the specific complaints players put forward weren't always a good indicator of what those players actually want, and in particular players' ideas for how to fix issues need to be taken with a whole expanse of salt flats. If you're a designer and unable to actually ferret out what players aren't satisfied with, and make the informed and intentional decision as to whether the design will benefit from or support the necessary changes to meet the hopes of any particular players who are dissatisfied, then it's possible you're kind of failing as a designer. Also lol at how many times over the years Gygax said that D&D isn't suited to combat simulation, yet it's increasingly become exactly that. At least by some definition of "simulation."
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May 20, 2022 16:19
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A Strange Aeon posted:I remember using it or something like it in 2e, but we also had weird possibly house rules that impacted what the thief could backstab--like a slime didn't really have a back to stab so you couldn't get bonus damage that way. Did we just make up that dumb rule as kids or did it have some foundation in a book? I may be misremembering but I'm almost certain that 2e had a backstab rule that specifically said you had to be able to identify a target's weakpoints or something like that. It could have been a houserule, yeah, but we definitely played the same way, nothing amorphous could be backstabbed.
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May 20, 2022 16:21
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Siivola posted:Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, only available in PDF new but you might be able to find a used one out there. Yeah, this is literally designed to be like a mail order catalogue. I bought a hard copy earlier this year for $70, and it was well spent.
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May 20, 2022 16:24
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I thought part of the point of AD&D was to create a "tournament standard" game? It feels a lot more like the exact opposite of that. Like it was a playtest where he opened the gates for all the people he personally played/corresponded with to test out their house rules.
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May 20, 2022 16:27
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