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Zore posted:They've let Ghastly learn like 4 punch moves since Gen II. It's 2022 and this poster doesn't know about "tongue punching"
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May 22, 2022 07:37
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qnqnx posted:But first, give all physical statted Electric types Volt Tackle. Imho just buff Wild Charge to 120 and bump Volt Tackle to 150, like it’s Pikachu/Raichu we’re talking about, they need the help.
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May 22, 2022 13:25
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Shiroc posted:Adding more people wouldn’t necessarily make anything better. lol
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May 22, 2022 16:08
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Last Celebration posted:Imho just buff Wild Charge to 120 and bump Volt Tackle to 150, like it’s Pikachu/Raichu we’re talking about, they need the help. PIkachu deserves nothing. Now give raichu an exclusive move that's electric but extra damage if you outspeed an opponent.
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May 22, 2022 16:49
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Give raichu a gun.
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May 22, 2022 17:18
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:PIkachu deserves nothing. Physical Electro Ball?
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May 22, 2022 17:21
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Alolan Raichu is cool as hell
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May 22, 2022 17:37
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indigi posted:lol What's your point here? I'm not being a dick I'm really asking. I don't know very much about game development.
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May 22, 2022 17:42
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Countblanc posted:Give raichu a mini railgun. 
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May 22, 2022 17:51
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Countblanc posted:Give raichu a vikavolt
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May 22, 2022 17:52
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Delete Pikachu entirely and make the evolution line Pichu->Raichu-> Gorochu
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May 22, 2022 17:59
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HopperUK posted:What's your point here? I'm not being a dick I'm really asking. I don't know very much about game development. that adding more people would solve some problems like animation quality/quantity (and thus bullshit decisions like dexit). not adding more people certainly won’t solve anything it also happens to be the only argument simps ever seem to land on when posting about why fans wanting more out of a game are being haters/unreasonable. “you can’t expect a multi billion dollar property to simply add more developers (like every other comparable franchise), that’s toxic!!”
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May 22, 2022 18:00
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indigi posted:that adding more people would solve some problems like animation quality/quantity (and thus bullshit decisions like dexit). not adding more people certainly won’t solve anything Except they won't, because why hire more people if you can make billions with the same or even fewer people? And we can't spend any time polishing the games, we gotta release them to introduce the new anime/card games/merchandising in time, gotta get them out by holidays. That's the number 1 reason Pokemon games fell in quality, they went full capitalism. Pokemon is ultimately the Assassin's Creed the Nintendo, the frecuent release with a new setting and the occassional shift in mechanics but usually keeping the basics. People wanting more are in the right, but Pokemon is too big to fail unless they release a game on E.T/Sonic 2006 levels of disaster.
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May 22, 2022 18:16
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Yeah that’s my opinion as well but people in this thread insist on arguing that they’re all (or at least mostly) productive, beneficial creative decisions
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May 22, 2022 18:50
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indigi posted:that adding more people would solve some problems like animation quality/quantity (and thus bullshit decisions like dexit). not adding more people certainly won’t solve anything IIRC the models and animations are made by Creatures Inc, for use in more than just the GameFreak games. So who knows what are they using that manpower on and why the already existing and "future proofed" models were suddenly not good enough
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May 22, 2022 19:02
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The biggest problem with Pokémon is that people constantly demand they carry the entire legacy forward for every game and it grinds down on being able to ever break away into something wholly transformative. The catching and battle mechanics are entirely archaic. It’s clear that they view it as a problem because every game keeps trying new things. Let’s Go and Legends changed catching. The agile/strong style stuff that I don’t think really worked. Bosses that break the rules like Totems, Eternatus, the Nobles. But anything they change or leave behind makes people melt down so they’re in a culdesac where they can fiddle on the fringes. Adding more characters gets people mad about cutscenes. Not having enough cutscenes gets people mad about the story lacking. gently caress off with the simp poo poo because the only reason why I engaged with you was because you were complaining specifically about how Home stored moves differently because of different games having different rules and that is wrong, showing how they’re lovely devs who can’t plan anything. It’s idiotic to say they need to advance but also be all the same. It’s idiotic to say that handling the variations is somehow the easier, lazy path forward.
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May 22, 2022 19:04
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Change is not always good.
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May 22, 2022 19:08
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qnqnx posted:Change is not always good. I’m fine with change, especially when it involves upgrading to hardware that allows developers to be more ambitious and creative. I’m not fine with arbitrarily removing fun things from games with a less fun or without replacement, lack of aspiration, and purposelessly limiting gameplay decisions Shiroc posted:The biggest problem with Pokémon is that people constantly demand they carry the entire legacy forward for every game and it grinds down on being able to ever break away into something wholly transformative. Lol
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May 22, 2022 19:14
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Shiroc posted:The biggest problem with Pokémon is that people constantly demand they carry the entire legacy forward for every game and it grinds down on being able to ever break away into something wholly transformative. The catching and battle mechanics are entirely archaic. It’s clear that they view it as a problem because every game keeps trying new things. Let’s Go and Legends changed catching. The agile/strong style stuff that I don’t think really worked. Bosses that break the rules like Totems, Eternatus, the Nobles. But anything they change or leave behind makes people melt down so they’re in a culdesac where they can fiddle on the fringes. Adding more characters gets people mad about cutscenes. Not having enough cutscenes gets people mad about the story lacking. Not having more cutscenes are not why people found the story of SwSh lacking. it was the not having anything of weight or note happen with you doing it that did it. And honestly if their solution to changing up the formula was making me just play the most boring stealth gameplay to catch thousands of pokemon I was never actually interested in using and instead just immediately deleting them for things to use on pokemon I cared about making the whole exercise feel like a boring pointless grind I'd rather them just focus on making the core experience have some actual polish to it like we did in the Gen 5 and 7 era. Just pull back the overall scale and just make A Pokemon Game with The Things You Expect but well polished and given enough depth and things to do it works. The last pokemon game that felt feature complete and like they hit all the notes they wanted was...BW2 which released a literal loving decade ago. I don't even expect them to bring everything back, but it's also incredibly stupid to expect a 'wholly transformative' experience over them doing what they did well done well again. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 19:19 on May 22, 2022 |
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May 22, 2022 19:16
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Pokemon, a creatures catching franchise struggling to break free off the weight of "large variety of creatures to catch"indigi posted:I’m fine with change, especially when it involves upgrading to hardware that allows developers to be more ambitious and creative. I’m not fine with arbitrarily removing fun things from games with a less fun or without replacement, lack of aspiration, and purposelessly limiting gameplay decisions Remembering now that somewhere GameFreak admitted that much liked features like DexNav or following pokemon do not return because "if you want them, play the older games that have it" qnqnx fucked around with this message at 19:22 on May 22, 2022 |
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May 22, 2022 19:19
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qnqnx posted:Pokemon, a creatures catching franchise struggling to break free off the weight of "large variety of creatures to catch" Also if they wanted to actually loving stick to this bit, why the gently caress are there pokemon that have been in every release since the restricted list happened? I haven't been able to use Minior in a game for half a decade at this point but I have to look at loving Flareon wasting space in my Dex every single game?
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May 22, 2022 19:20
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The last pokemon game that felt feature complete and like they hit all the notes they wanted was...BW2 which released a literal loving decade ago. I’d say USUM had that feeling too
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May 22, 2022 19:26
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indigi posted:I’d say USUM had that feeling too The battle tower still left a lot to be desired but I could see someone arguing this.
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May 22, 2022 19:27
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Goldeen is in every. single. game. Goldeen.
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May 22, 2022 19:28
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also if they wanted to actually loving stick to this bit, why the gently caress are there pokemon that have been in every release since the restricted list happened? I haven't been able to use Minior in a game for half a decade at this point but I have to look at loving Flareon wasting space in my Dex every single game? Flareon is more popular than Minior, mystery solved
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May 22, 2022 19:28
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galagazombie posted:Goldeen is in every. single. game. Goldeen. It's very funny that the missing Gen 6 and gen 7 pokes have been unavailable longer than they were available in pokemons history. And by funny I mean No actually this whole situation is stupid as hell. Very excited to see Scarlet come out and figure out who's gonna be missing for the next decade. Shiroc posted:Flareon is more popular than Minior, mystery solved Hey that's a dogshit way to handle that decision. Much like a lot of GF's design decisions. Mystery solved.
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May 22, 2022 19:31
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Shiroc posted:Flareon is more popular than Minior, mystery solved Envision a merchandise driven franchise, were better designs fall off the wayside because most plushie buyers are braindead consumers.
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May 22, 2022 19:35
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It's very funny that the missing Gen 6 and gen 7 pokes have been unavailable longer than they were available in pokemons history. I feel like that's the main reason for the rotation system they seem to be pulling. Release a set of games with roughly half the species, some you care about, others who you don't care about, then work on another set of the games with another randomized set of monsters, some you sorely missed, others you still don't care about, and now others that were in the previous entry, repeat this for the rest of the Switch's life cycle until they do this whole process over again for the next console. Its all to get consumers to buy more games ultimately.
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May 22, 2022 19:36
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qnqnx posted:Envision a merchandise driven franchise, were better designs fall off the wayside because most plushie buyers are braindead consumers. Surely this will lead to a wholly transformative new experience
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May 22, 2022 19:36
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Fluffy fire fox dog cat thing > rock candy eaten by giant space noodle I don't make the rules
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May 22, 2022 19:37
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I miss Minior as well and I'll be very glad to see it usable in Scarlet and Violet since Comet (the Minior I bred in Gen 7 but never got the chance to train) is still sitting in the cold storage of Home.
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May 22, 2022 19:39
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I understand why people are upset about Dexit and I am too to an extent but honestly, I'm fine with "We're not going to have literally every single Pokemon available in this game, that's just too much." That'd be fine! Limiting the types of Pokemon you can catch in an entry is a fine design decision! It's going to upset some people but it does allow for things like being able to better balance the game. But doing things like "Taking away a mid game Special type Bug move leaving most Pokemon severely disadvantaged" doesn't do that. It's not like Signal Beam Venonat was ruling the loving meta from on high, there's literally zero reason to remove it aside from either "The devs are stupid/lazy" (which I don't think is true) or "The devs straight up don't have enough time to release a finished game" (which I think is). Changing movesets around is another fine design decision, I'm not against that, but movesets should be changed to either boost a weaker Pokemon that needed some help, or making an incredibly overpowered Pokemon a little less overpowered. And like I said, removing Signal Beam doesn't qualify. Pokemon that learned Signal Beam weren't overpowered because it, and removing it makes them weaker, not stronger. To show I'm not against this sort of thing though, I'll give an example. I think removing Hidden Power was good. It's not really that fun if a Pokemon can always have a perfect counter to things that would normally counter them. Even if it was a weaker move attack power-wise, it still made some Pokemon way too OP to have that option. Shiroc posted:It’s idiotic to say they need to advance but also be all the same. No it isn't, this is what Super Mario Bros. 3 did. It advanced the mechanics and experience of the original Super Mario Bros., while also still being a game where you jump on Goombas and grab power ups and fight Bowser. Same with Link to the Past, it was basically a souped up version of the original LoZ. Being the same while advancing is what a lot of great game series do! Now of course sometimes the advancements make the experience wholly different too, Symphony of the Night drastically redefined what Castlevania was and what it would be in the future. This is different from a side game where the series is experimenting (like, Super Mario RPG did not change how mainline Mario games are made), and I'm fine with things being drastically different in a side game, like every move doesn't necessary need to be in stuff like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon or Rumble World. I've just accepted that Pokemon doesn't want to advance but still be the same because it's cheaper and easier to just do what they can in the short development time they're given, and they're making more money than God so they have no reason to improve their product. It sucks, but as they say,  I'll still buy their products because I think they're still pretty fun, I just wish they did better.
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May 22, 2022 19:41
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Zuzie posted:I feel like that's the main reason for the rotation system they seem to be pulling. Release a set of games with roughly half the species, some you care about, others who you don't care about, then work on another set of the games with another randomized set of monsters, some you sorely missed, others you still don't care about, and now others that were in the previous entry, repeat this for the rest of the Switch's life cycle until they do this whole process over again for the next console. That doesn’t really make sense as a sales technique, if anything it’s an incentive for someone to skip a game that doesn’t have their favorite in it
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May 22, 2022 19:41
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also if they wanted to actually loving stick to this bit, why the gently caress are there pokemon that have been in every release since the restricted list happened? I haven't been able to use Minior in a game for half a decade at this point but I have to look at loving Flareon wasting space in my Dex every single game? Aren't pikachu, eevee, and clefairy practically guaranteed to be in every pokemon game and spinoff, which would naturally include their evo-lines in a mainline pokemon game? Expect flareons, at least.
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May 22, 2022 19:42
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Twelve by Pies posted:I understand why people are upset about Dexit and I am too to an extent but honestly, I'm fine with "We're not going to have literally every single Pokemon available in this game, that's just too much." That'd be fine! Limiting the types of Pokemon you can catch in an entry is a fine design decision! It's going to upset some people but it does allow for things like being able to better balance the game. I’d be ok (not happy, but ok) with not every Pokémon being in every game if every Pokémon would be in every generation. if you’re remaking Unova then fine cut a bunch of gen 1-5 mons from the mainline game since they’ll be in the remakes. if you’re doing a Legends entry you can chop it up even more. also let’s not pretend that “game balance” has been a legitimate consideration since Gen 5 Lux Animus posted:Aren't pikachu, eevee, and clefairy practically guaranteed to be in every pokemon game and spinoff, which would naturally include their evo-lines in a mainline pokemon game? Expect flareons, at least. if their regional form won’t be in every game a Pokémon is in I don’t see why you’d have to include every eeveeloution. can you get an Alolan Raichu in swish without trading? no fire stone in this game, deal with it indigi fucked around with this message at 19:47 on May 22, 2022 |
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May 22, 2022 19:45
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indigi posted:That doesn’t really make sense as a sales technique, if anything it’s an incentive for someone to skip a game that doesn’t have their favorite in it Depends on how many favorite Pokemon you actually have and if you're actually hyper-focused on just playing games with those specific Pokemon. The chances of a specific game having all your favorite monsters in it are slim though since they really seem like they just take a dartboard approach with who gets to be in the next set of games.
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May 22, 2022 19:47
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Zuzie posted:Depends on how many favorite Pokemon you actually have and if you're actually hyper-focused on just playing games with those specific Pokemon. this person would buy every game in any case though
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May 22, 2022 19:48
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Twelve by Pies posted:I understand why people are upset about Dexit and I am too to an extent but honestly, I'm fine with "We're not going to have literally every single Pokemon available in this game, that's just too much." That'd be fine! Limiting the types of Pokemon you can catch in an entry is a fine design decision! It's going to upset some people but it does allow for things like being able to better balance the game. Yeah I'd get that if that was the reason but as you said the movelist cuts and the pokemon cuts mostly just meant what pokemon that showed up usually just were worse across the board to actually use. (Until move tutors added in DLC please spend more money thank you!) It's just lovely. The game's overall quality also tanked compared to previous ones so if feels like the player basically got nothing out of cutting out a bunch of poo poo from the game. Like online interface's shittiness aside, just being online and in the Wild area, which is where they expect you to spend most of your post story play time, ran drat close to single digit framerates with near constant hitching. If Sw/Sh came out and was B/W or S/M level of quality just without all the pokemon and Arceus came out and was a Revelatory Transformative Experience I'd be a lot more forgiving but...everything that's come out has been not great to just plain bad. Lux Animus posted:Aren't pikachu, eevee, and clefairy practically guaranteed to be in every pokemon game and spinoff, which would naturally include their evo-lines in a mainline pokemon game? Expect flareons, at least. Yeah and that...loving sucks. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 19:55 on May 22, 2022 |
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May 22, 2022 19:50
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Twelve by Pies posted:No it isn't, this is what Super Mario Bros. 3 did. It advanced the mechanics and experience of the original Super Mario Bros., while also still being a game where you jump on Goombas and grab power ups and fight Bowser. Same with Link to the Past, it was basically a souped up version of the original LoZ. Being the same while advancing is what a lot of great game series do! Now of course sometimes the advancements make the experience wholly different too, Symphony of the Night drastically redefined what Castlevania was and what it would be in the future. This is different from a side game where the series is experimenting (like, Super Mario RPG did not change how mainline Mario games are made), and I'm fine with things being drastically different in a side game, like every move doesn't necessary need to be in stuff like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon or Rumble World. The comparison to Mario I would go for is Mario 64. I think Pokemon has largely been advancing like if Mario had only kept trying to have the mainline be 2d ones forever. Mario 64 managed to maintain the overall vibe of Mario while opening the games up to do a ton of new things. It was only 10 years from Super Mario Brothers to Mario 64. Its now been 25 from Pokemon Red to now. The space is getting exhausted.
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May 22, 2022 19:53
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yeah I'd get that if that was the reason but as you said the movelist cuts and the pokemon cuts mostly just meant what pokemon that showed up usually just were worse across the board to actually use. (Until move tutors added in DLC please spend more money thank you!) It's just lovely. The game's overall quality also tanked compared to previous ones so if feels like the player basically got nothing out of cutting out a bunch of poo poo from the game. Like online interface's shittiness aside, just being online and in the Wild area, which is where they expect you to spend most of your post story play time, ran drat close to single digit framerates with near constant hitching. If someone told me the cuts were intentional, with the objective to sell more DLC I'd believe it Funny too how XY had nearly perfected online interactions and it got thrown out for reasons unknown to the sane and logical.
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May 22, 2022 19:54
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