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Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


MRC48B posted:

Smart people start budgeting for a replacement at around the age of your system. Do you have a backup heat source to keep you from freezing for a few days if they have to order parts?

I do! The unit has an internal resistive electric ($$$!) unit for emergency use if geothermal parts go. I'm hoping to have a propane fireplace come winter as well in case the blower itself goes down or if it's a more major failure. I found a place that would sell me a new unit and I can install myself should there be a major bummer. The purge looks to be a pain in the rear end, but shouldn't be too bad if the loop itself never loses pressure.

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randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

TheLawinator posted:

Flex duct runs better be short in general. How many returns in the house? Why are they changing out the ductwork?

There are now 4 returns in the house; previously 3. It's a fairly typical 90s open layout house that was all the rage at the time - all the bedrooms on one side, kitchen/dining on the other, living room and den in the center. The original main return was above the master bedroom door just off the den (master bedroom being off on its own corner), another outside the hallway at floor level for the other bedrooms, and finally one on the wall at floor level right by the kitchen/entry.

I was up there to visit last week. The new return is 2 feet away from the main one :downs: (and crooked, which drove my OCD nuts) - BUT, it's on the other side of a doorway (inside the master bedroom, and they usually sleep with that door closed). Their bedroom is a solid 10+ degrees cooler than it used to be; it's about the same temp as the rest of the house now, whereas before it could be 85+ in that room when the rest of the house was 72ish. The original ductwork was literally falling apart (it was from 1994). Several vents have also been added around the house.

My own impression is the install was rushed, but it's definitely quality equipment, and it has a 12 year parts/10 year labor warranty as long as they add a whole house surge protector asap. Instead of changing out the 50 amp breaker in the panel, they replaced the outside disconnect with one with a 40 amp breaker (Challenger is long gone, so they likely didn't want to touch the panel - the previous disconnect was just a disconnect, no fuses or breaker). My biggest irk is they not only tore out the existing concrete pad, they also installed a smaller plastic one... and didn't bolt the outside unit down. Texas gets some strong storms, and being a side exit system, it's tall and narrow - that sucker will fall over the first time Thor gets angry. I was able to easily tip it a bit with one hand. They're supposed to be coming back out to bolt it down, but given the pad (it's just plastic), I doubt it'll do much against strong wind.

I feel like he probably overpaid a bit, but he did go for all Daikin, all variable speed, some kind of Daikin air scrubber, with the fancy pants Daikin One+ thermostat (that fucker alone is $yikes$). That house was downright frigid when I was there (set at 68, hottest it ever got was 69... when it was 100 outside); the system does run nonstop during the day, but except for the hottest hour or two of the day, it was barely running - both the interior fan and the outside unit. At full bore, the outside unit was still pretty quiet, inside unit about as noisy as the circa 1994 York furnace it replaced (which wasn't loud at all). Looking at the day by day data from their smart meter, their electric bill looks like it's going to go down significantly. Also, 5" thick filter now, which should reduce how often my elderly stepfather has to go up into the attic to change the filter.

What particularly bugs me about the new return is it's next to the bedroom smoke detector. I did change out all of the smoke alarms while I was there (they were all the original BRK models from 1994; replaced with the current version, interconnected AC w/battery backup, uses the same plug even), so at least they hopefully have less of a chance of dying in a fire. But if a fire starts in the master bedroom, I doubt that particular smoke will do jack poo poo until the smoke gets pretty thick unless the HVAC happens to be off. At least there's 6 of them...



(why yes, they do have foundation issues, whatever gave you that idea?)

randomidiot fucked around with this message at 05:27 on May 22, 2022

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

STR posted:


What particularly bugs me about the new return is it's next to the bedroom smoke detector. I did change out all of the smoke alarms while I was there (they were all the original BRK models from 1994; replaced with the current version, interconnected AC w/battery backup, uses the same plug even), so at least they hopefully have less of a chance of dying in a fire. But if a fire starts in the master bedroom, I doubt that particular smoke will do jack poo poo until the smoke gets pretty thick unless the HVAC happens to be off. At least there's 6 of them...

No, smokes next to (or inside of, for large commercial equipment) returns is where you want them. It is extremely unlikely the return airflow is strong enough to keep particulates from reaching the sensors. Supply flow can do this though.

And if they're newer photo detectors, they will work just fine.

the only thing you want to think about is a carbon monoxide and an LEL detector if the house has propane or natgas appliances.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.
Alright, how boned am I:



Came back from vacation. Reset the thermostat to normal temps, and things appear to cool fine. However, at some point during unpacking we noticed that the upstairs was way warmer than downstairs (they're on separate zones). Check the history, and the system has been on but the temp keeps going up. Not good, clearly.

For reference, about a year ago our HVAC maintenance tech added 2 lbs of refrigerant. So we're aware of a potential slow leak, but the guy said it was a "watch and see" situation. I had my doubts, but he seemed awfully nonchalant about it... and I guess everything's been fine until today, so there's that.

Is this us being flat out of refrigerant? Or is there another issue here? Haven't had time to troubleshoot, but I don't really know where to start.

Follow-up: we have Trane systems, but our HVAC maintenance contract is through a non-Trane company. We've been thinking of switching to another company anyhow. Is it worth going to a "certified" Trane service company? Or when it comes to fixing leaks is one just as good as another (assuming they're equally competent at their job)? I dunno if parts cost/availability is a factor here (i.e. cheaper/faster for a "certified" dealer) or if it doesn't matter.

edit: so I did shut the system down, of course. Not sure if maybe it froze up, but we've never had that issue before. I'll probably try to fire it back up in the morning and see what happens I guess!

DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 01:23 on May 23, 2022

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

DaveSauce posted:

For reference, about a year ago our HVAC maintenance tech added 2 lbs of refrigerant. So we're aware of a potential slow leak, but the guy said it was a "watch and see" situation. I had my doubts, but he seemed awfully nonchalant about it... and I guess everything's been fine until today, so there's that.

Leak search and repair is an art. a time consuming (and therfore expensive) art. Most customers don't want to pay for it, so gas and go is the standard for any system not over the EPA limit (aka every residential system ever made)

quote:

Is this us being flat out of refrigerant? Or is there another issue here? Haven't had time to troubleshoot, but I don't really know where to start.
Is the large tube going to the ahu beer can cold, is the outdoor unit humming. you're probably low enough to be iced or off on a safety switch.

quote:

Follow-up: we have Trane systems, but our HVAC maintenance contract is through a non-Trane company. We've been thinking of switching to another company anyhow. Is it worth going to a "certified" Trane service company? Or when it comes to fixing leaks is one just as good as another (assuming they're equally competent at their job)? I dunno if parts cost/availability is a factor here (i.e. cheaper/faster for a "certified" dealer) or if it doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter. trane doesn't lock other contractors out of parts and support, and there's nothing new or proprietary secret about home systems.

quote:

edit: so I did shut the system down, of course. Not sure if maybe it froze up, but we've never had that issue before. I'll probably try to fire it back up in the morning and see what happens I guess!

good luck, would rec you get someone scheduled for a visit.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.
Good info, thanks! Haven't had a chance to go out and look at the system, but I'll probably just call a tech out. Even in the best case there's just about nothing I can fix myself here, unless somehow a bad cap/contactor is the culprit.

I did dig up the old invoice where they topped it off and they put an estimate on there saying they charge $240 for finding a leak, which is not bad... IIRC the guy said the typical problem is about a $3k cost to fix, but that was off the cuff so I don't know how accurate it is.

All that said, I fired it up this morning and it cooled decently:



Today won't get nearly as hot as yesterday so it might be able to keep up, we'll see. Next few days should be relatively cool, so better now than in a few weeks when it gets hot and stays hot.

DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 14:15 on May 23, 2022

JimbobDobalina
Aug 29, 2005

I will munch on your endocrine system
I had our furnace and AC unit replaced last year, and because we get a lot of wild fire smoke in our area during summer, the contractor suggested and installed a pristine air electrostatic filter system. It was great, and we didn't get any smoke smell inside the house despite the air outside being basically unbreathable. We got a year supply (4) filters with the install, but we are out now.

Installer quoted $180 for another year of replacements, which seemed a bit steep for a box of 16x25 fibreglass mesh sheets. Looking to see if anyone is familiar with these, and if this pricing is comparable. In Canada, so a bit higher is to be expected.

This is the unit:
https://www.pristineaircleaner.com/indoor-air-solutions/iaq-1000

And the media box part number: 3LP1625

As far as I can tell, pristine air only sell through dealers, and there's only one dealer in my area, of course. Am I getting ripped off?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

DaveSauce posted:

Good info, thanks! Haven't had a chance to go out and look at the system, but I'll probably just call a tech out. Even in the best case there's just about nothing I can fix myself here, unless somehow a bad cap/contactor is the culprit.

I did dig up the old invoice where they topped it off and they put an estimate on there saying they charge $240 for finding a leak, which is not bad... IIRC the guy said the typical problem is about a $3k cost to fix, but that was off the cuff so I don't know how accurate it is.

All that said, I fired it up this morning and it cooled decently:



Today won't get nearly as hot as yesterday so it might be able to keep up, we'll see. Next few days should be relatively cool, so better now than in a few weeks when it gets hot and stays hot.

If they didn't fix the leak then you're low and the next hot day is going to overwhelm it. You're also working your unit harder. You should get someone out sooner than later. Every day there is a little less in the system. Assuming there is UV dye in it you could check the easily visible spots with a blacklight and see if there is an obvious spray somewhere. I don't know if that's a thing in residential AC, it's definitely a thing in cars.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

H110Hawk posted:

If they didn't fix the leak then you're low and the next hot day is going to overwhelm it. You're also working your unit harder. You should get someone out sooner than later. Every day there is a little less in the system. Assuming there is UV dye in it you could check the easily visible spots with a blacklight and see if there is an obvious spray somewhere. I don't know if that's a thing in residential AC, it's definitely a thing in cars.

Yeah, got someone scheduled for Thursday. They haven't done our summer maintenance yet, so they're going to do that so we don't have to pay for the call out. I guess! Probably going to have them fix the leak this time (provided that's the issue). I don't know why, but I didn't get a lot of confidence from the tech that there actually was a leak... he really didn't make it seem like a big deal, so I got the impression that he may have been mistaken on his measurements, or maybe he (or someone before him) accidentally vented some while hooking up gauges. I dunno, we'll see Thursday.

The other thing that was suggested to me by a co-worker is that the condenser fan may not have been spinning. I know I have a sketchy cap on that system, so that's a possibility, but I dunno if that would cause this, and with as much cycling as it's done today I'd have expected it to do the same thing.

But in any case, system still running just fine. Been cycling on and off all day so far, but again it's not nearly as hot as yesterday so it's not working nearly as hard (edit: eh, high is actually higher than it was supposed to be, but still low 80s instead of high 80s).

DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 18:57 on May 23, 2022

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

DaveSauce posted:

maybe he (or someone before him) accidentally vented some while hooking up gauges. I dunno, we'll see Thursday.

lol no.

We're talking multiple POUNDS of missing refrigerant before your symptoms would occur. There would be a greasy spot and dead patch in your lawn where this happened.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.
I figured, but I'm trying to cling to some hope that my barely 9 year old system doesn't have a leak in it already. Not that I paid to install it, and not that we don't have savings to fix it, but one of the features of the house when we bought it was that they just replaced both HVAC zones in 2013, so we were hoping we would be able to get away with basic maintenance for at least a few more years before having to drop money on repairs.

But anyhow, we're still happy:



And HomeAssistant has better resolution on it:



:shrug:

DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 19:46 on May 23, 2022

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


JimbobDobalina posted:

I had our furnace and AC unit replaced last year, and because we get a lot of wild fire smoke in our area during summer, the contractor suggested and installed a pristine air electrostatic filter system. It was great, and we didn't get any smoke smell inside the house despite the air outside being basically unbreathable. We got a year supply (4) filters with the install, but we are out now.

Installer quoted $180 for another year of replacements, which seemed a bit steep for a box of 16x25 fibreglass mesh sheets. Looking to see if anyone is familiar with these, and if this pricing is comparable. In Canada, so a bit higher is to be expected.

This is the unit:
https://www.pristineaircleaner.com/indoor-air-solutions/iaq-1000

And the media box part number: 3LP1625

As far as I can tell, pristine air only sell through dealers, and there's only one dealer in my area, of course. Am I getting ripped off?

Looking at Amazon I see filter media that is electrostatic, and the size you need. Chances are there is nothing inherently unique to the PristineAir units and you just need to find something that will fit. I purchase a lot of filtration and HEPA's for work and there is definitely a racket of filter people who try to make things way more complicated than it is.

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.
Ok my compressor is replaced. The service guy is now begging me to get rid of my 2nd gen Nest because he's convinced it's the cause.

I feel like he means well but, I'm obviously not keen on spending another $200 after paying to redo this work. His evidence is that the contactor turned off and back on when there was a continuous demand. Is this something I can ask Nest to evaluate?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Vaporware posted:

Ok my compressor is replaced. The service guy is now begging me to get rid of my 2nd gen Nest because he's convinced it's the cause.

I feel like he means well but, I'm obviously not keen on spending another $200 after paying to redo this work. His evidence is that the contactor turned off and back on when there was a continuous demand. Is this something I can ask Nest to evaluate?

It's the same loving failure that all of them have: the solid state relays in the base are going bad and are loving up your HVAC system.

Put it in the trash where it belongs.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


A Google smart device destroying HVAC systems? That sounds about right to me.

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007
Hair Elf

Vaporware posted:

Ok my compressor is replaced. The service guy is now begging me to get rid of my 2nd gen Nest because he's convinced it's the cause.

I feel like he means well but, I'm obviously not keen on spending another $200 after paying to redo this work. His evidence is that the contactor turned off and back on when there was a continuous demand. Is this something I can ask Nest to evaluate?

Is your Nest siphoning power when it runs or do you have a dedicated C wire powering it?

I've read issues about the way it siphons power causing problems with some HVAC units.

E: I've been using an Ecobee for a couple years and it hasn't caused any issues with my 2016 HVAC system yet. So maybe switch to that if you want all the "smart" features. Also get BeeStat for all the analytics you'd ever want :science:

SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 16:51 on May 25, 2022

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Vaporware posted:

Ok my compressor is replaced. The service guy is now begging me to get rid of my 2nd gen Nest because he's convinced it's the cause.

I feel like he means well but, I'm obviously not keen on spending another $200 after paying to redo this work. His evidence is that the contactor turned off and back on when there was a continuous demand. Is this something I can ask Nest to evaluate?

For probably $40 you can get a thermostat that will work perfectly for a decade+. The ac guy could have set you up while he was there.

Sell the trash on Facebook or something. Stop buying $200 gizmos to run your house.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

Nest thermostats are known to be trash and have issues.

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.
Thanks, He was very passionate that it was a problem, but didn't pass along the why it was a problem. Makes sense.

I was looking at the run signals in the history for the same time period and obviously the relays won't show, since the signal dropped at the relay not at the control signal.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Vaporware posted:

Thanks, He was very passionate that it was a problem, but didn't pass along the why it was a problem. Makes sense.

I was looking at the run signals in the history for the same time period and obviously the relays won't show, since the signal dropped at the relay not at the control signal.

See if Google will rma it, then sell that poo poo on to the next sucker. If they ask why you're selling it say you just don't want to deal with setting it up.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Vaporware posted:

Thanks, He was very passionate that it was a problem, but didn't pass along the why it was a problem. Makes sense.

I was looking at the run signals in the history for the same time period and obviously the relays won't show, since the signal dropped at the relay not at the control signal.

I had one that went badly enough that taking the thermostat off the base wasn't enough to get the compressor to stop running (while nothing else in the system was running). The SSR was passing something along the lines of 14-ish volts and that was enough for the contactor to close.

This is not a smart thermostat problem. This is a "Nest is poo poo" problem. It's been happening since the very beginning, they barely admit to it and when they do they say it's been fixed/changed, and these stories keep on happening. I wonder how many times these internet of poo poo devices have destroyed stuff and it wasn't caught/attributed to them.

TL;DR:


SpartanIvy posted:

E: I've been using an Ecobee for a couple years and it hasn't caused any issues with my 2016 HVAC system yet. So maybe switch to that if you want all the "smart" features.

Or a straight zwave thermostat and control it with something else like home assistant. But something with actual relays in it.

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.
I got mine way back in 2008? So it's not like I haven't got the $200 out of it.

I don't have any other smart home devices because I was so underwhelmed by this one

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Vaporware posted:

I got mine way back in 2008? So it's not like I haven't got the $200 out of it.

Did you though? How much money has it actually saved you over a basic $40 programmable thermostat or a $60 one with an occupancy sensor vs. how much did it just cost you to get this repaired?

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.

Motronic posted:

Did you though? How much money has it actually saved you over a basic $40 programmable thermostat or a $60 one with an occupancy sensor vs. how much did it just cost you to get this repaired?

I'm not sure your point?
The system I replaced was 25 years old and died of old age. The other one next to it is still running. I believe it contributed to the failure but without any feedback on what actually failed in the compressor, I really can't feel bad about walking into a home ownership disaster. It's no different than accidentally buying lovely windows or a bad garage door opener.
I purchased a thermostat more than a decade ago and thought about it twice since then (Added a C wire and moved). It hasn't given me any indication of being a problem until now so I couldn't have known to replace it. No general product warning or recalls have been issued and they were on the shelf at Lowes today.

Hed
Mar 31, 2004

Fun Shoe
So is the cool thread Rec ecobee? 4? Lite?

I need two since I have zoned systems and I don’t think I need extra sensors. I will never yell at my thermostat or use Goog/Alexa, I will just set a program and I guess enrich HA via Zwave/ZigBee. HomeKit would be ok but that can be through HA.
Having charts would be interesting I guess but I’ll never look at them except to say “see, the whole house dehumidifier was awesome look what it did”

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

Hed posted:

So is the cool thread Rec ecobee? 4? Lite?

I need two since I have zoned systems and I don’t think I need extra sensors. I will never yell at my thermostat or use Goog/Alexa, I will just set a program and I guess enrich HA via Zwave/ZigBee. HomeKit would be ok but that can be through HA.
Having charts would be interesting I guess but I’ll never look at them except to say “see, the whole house dehumidifier was awesome look what it did”

Idiot homeowner here and I'm pleased as punch with my Ecobee 3. Integrates pretty well in to HA, but I generally just use that for monitoring and let Ecobee do its own thing. Having a 7-day schedule built in to it with the configurable presets really eliminates the need to do anything but look at it with HA. That said, if you WFH sporadically you could use HA to change which preset its using based on presence sensors.

edit: also, you can group the two thermostats together so that they match settings, i.e. changing one will change them both. Not a big deal, but saves having to do everything twice if you take more manual control.



OK so post-mortem to this:

DaveSauce posted:

Alright, how boned am I:




Uh... refrigerant is fine!

Here's what they measured, to anyone who knows how to read this:

OD Temp 82
Supply Temp 57
Return Temp 77
Refrigerant High 321
Refrigerant Low 129
Cool Only Superheat 11
Cool Only Subcooling 10

So how I had to add 2 lbs a year ago I don't know... not that I can actually read those numbers, but the tech said it looks like there was never a leak to begin with. He was saying that sometimes leaks will seal themselves. Sounds odd, but I'm far from an expert in this so I'll believe it.

Anyhow, the cap was pretty bad, but that only supplies the compressor and the condenser fan. I'm told the fan not starting wouldn't necessarily have caused these symptoms. I don't know what about the compressor not starting... I assume basically nothing would happen? But the tech didn't bother mentioning it, so I dunno.

The tech's theory was that the blower actually wasn't running for some reason at the time. This unit is actually a variable speed, so there's no bad cap to be had here. He was saying that these can have a hiccup and work fine for a year or two and then start to fail, or it could be headed for failure soon.

So I guess from my view, either the bad cap caused the compressor to not start (just that one time), or the main blower decided not to start (just that one time).

Any thoughts?

DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 21:10 on May 27, 2022

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

DaveSauce posted:

Any thoughts?

Find a better HVAC guy.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

Motronic posted:

Find a better HVAC guy.

Cool. Care to expand?

So was this current tech an idiot for having no idea what caused the issue, or was the previous tech an idiot for adding refrigerant unnecessarily?

edit: same company, different techs. The previous tech that added refrigerant was the guy that usually comes out, the one that came out a few days ago was one I don't think has been here before.

DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 21:43 on May 27, 2022

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

DaveSauce posted:

Cool. Care to expand?

So was this current tech an idiot for having no idea what caused the issue, or was the previous tech an idiot for adding refrigerant unnecessarily?

Either/both. Take your pick.

The bottom line is that you've now gotten two different techs from the same place and neither has solved your problem or even been able to tell you what it is. That's the reason for my brief and accurate comment.

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

DaveSauce posted:

previous tech an idiot for adding refrigerant unnecessarily?

you have no way of telling whether this is actually true or not, unless you have ref numbers from the work order two years ago.

Really tiny leaks can take years to show charge loss. I had one where it leaked out the suction side service valve, but only when the system was lightly loaded. if it was hot outside, no beep on the detector.

that subcool is technically in the "ok" range, but but I would expect it to be a bit higher at only 82f outside.

the reality may be he was unable to find anything specifically wrong at the time he looked. ecm fans are incredibly annoying in this aspect. the inside function is very inscrutable.

we cannot judge his competence from a snapshot of a single service call reported second hand via forum post.

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


Motronic posted:

IThis is not a smart thermostat problem. This is a "Nest is poo poo" problem. It's been happening since the very beginning, they barely admit to it and when they do they say it's been fixed/changed, and these stories keep on happening. I wonder how many times these internet of poo poo devices have destroyed stuff and it wasn't caught/attributed to them.
Holy cow. I'd heard horrible things about the smoke alarms, but this is also very bad.

SpaceCadetBob
Dec 27, 2012

Hed posted:

So is the cool thread Rec ecobee? 4? Lite?

I need two since I have zoned systems and I don’t think I need extra sensors. I will never yell at my thermostat or use Goog/Alexa, I will just set a program and I guess enrich HA via Zwave/ZigBee. HomeKit would be ok but that can be through HA.
Having charts would be interesting I guess but I’ll never look at them except to say “see, the whole house dehumidifier was awesome look what it did”

No specific rec besides I’ve had the 3 for quite a few years with no problem.

However I did a review for their new premium model on cnet and did a quick dive into the tech specs a bit after the review noted that it came with an air quality sensor.

Just a word of warning to anyone, that although the device displays quality ratings for both VoC and CO2 levels there isn’t an actual CO2 sensor in the device and it just guesses at co2 concentration based on the VoC sensor reading.
i had to dig through quite a few layers of obfuscation on ecobee’s website to get that info so I’m pretty grumpy with them this week for trying to bullshit everyone on a new feature.

Having an airthings sensor running in my house for a month now I can safely say that in a house with a carbon medium air filter VoC and CO2 levels are not correlated!

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

MRC48B posted:

you have no way of telling whether this is actually true or not, unless you have ref numbers from the work order two years ago.

Really tiny leaks can take years to show charge loss. I had one where it leaked out the suction side service valve, but only when the system was lightly loaded. if it was hot outside, no beep on the detector.

that subcool is technically in the "ok" range, but but I would expect it to be a bit higher at only 82f outside.

the reality may be he was unable to find anything specifically wrong at the time he looked. ecm fans are incredibly annoying in this aspect. the inside function is very inscrutable.

we cannot judge his competence from a snapshot of a single service call reported second hand via forum post.

Yeah see that's why I was asking... when I see "get another HVAC guy" I assume someone did something obviously wrong. I get that there's very little to go on, which is why I'm asking questions... trying to figure out what I need to plan/budget for and if it's going to be soon or a few years off.

I dug up the report from 1 year ago when they did the refrigerant top off:

OD Temp 70
Refrigerant High 282.8
Refrigerant Low 114
Cool Only Subcooling 10

It's all I got. I assume this is after adding refrigerant? No clue, this is all the report has.

Also found June 2019 (we skipped summer 2020), slightly different format:

Temp Rise (heating) n/a
Temp Drop (Cooling) 21
Check Electrical Connects tight
Evap Coil Condition rusted
Filter Condition ok
Duct Condition fair
Check Drain Line cleared
Overall Appearance ok
Float Switch recommend SS2
Ambient Temp 84
Suction PSI 130
Discharge PSI 325
Superheat
Subcooling
Check Contactor

And also April 2018:

Outdoor temp 73
High 265
Low 110
Subcool 8
Superheat 17

:shrug:

All different techs, it looks like, but the same company. Thought the last tech we had had been here a few times, but maybe that was fall tune-ups.

edit:

so to be sure, I'm not trying to blame the techs. I work in industrial automation, I know how this poo poo goes. I'm trying to figure out what's going on and if I need to dig deeper, or if I can just wait it out and see what happens. Right now especially with parts in short supply, I don't want to be caught out in the peak of summer without a/c and be stuck for months if it's preventable. I understand if it's unpredictable, but I simply do not have the knowledge to know if this is a "who knows" situation or if this is something I can get ahead of.

edit again: OK that makes it seem a bit more dire than it actually is. It's not a holy gently caress emergency, just trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Multi-thousand dollar repairs on something that is supposed to have at least a few years left is frustrating.

DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 01:35 on May 28, 2022

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Arsenic Lupin posted:

Holy cow. I'd heard horrible things about the smoke alarms, but this is also very bad.

We've got big rear end radiant heat tubes that heat about 60k sqft of industrial shop that was controlled by dumb thermostats. We upgraded to Mysa, or Myza, wifi units just so we could program it for the weekends. Fast forward a year, everything worked great, until one day the relay boxes are clacking and smacking like an epileptic at a rave. Come to find out over the weekend there was a firmware update that forced the unit into pulse width modulation mode. The radiant tubes didn't even have a chance to start but the algorithm decided how it wanted to run and hosed up half a dozen relays. Other than the lazy factor of setting temps in the office, there was zero benefit over a $40 semi-dumb weekend programmable thermostat. Trying to reach them was an exercise in futility as there was just a generic web form for tech support.

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

2018 says slightly low to me,

2019 is useless without temp or superheat /subcool numbers

2021 seems like before numbers, definitely slightly low.

Invalido
Dec 28, 2005

BICHAELING


The blower for the geothermal AC finally showed up! The boxes are filter (barely showing in the background), blower, heat exchanger. Duct connections are 250mm. Waiting for some rubber feet for the blower and some 250mm elbows that were forgotten but it's getting closer. Sadly none of these large air duct things are available OTC for amateurs in this country so everything needs to be ordered. Central residential AC or forced air heating systems for that matter (apart from mostly retrofitted air/air heat pump mini split units) aren't really a thing here - it's all sweating during the infrequent summer heat waves and radiators/floor heating in the winter pretty much. Parts for the smaller outlets branching off of the main cool air duct are readily available though since diameters up to 125mm are common in kitchen fans, residential mechanical ventilation and so on.



The one and only air inlet is also in place. It sits by the front door in the central hallway. It needs a nice cover plate full of holes, yet to be fabricated. The wallpaper is probaby 40+ years old and the ceiling panel is hella ugly but one thing at a time.

Mattavist
May 24, 2003

Looking for advice on what will be my first HVAC project! Bought a house last year and summer is upon me. Our living room is an additional room that was added on top of our garage. It is not connected to the HVAC in the rest of the house. In the winter we used a space heater, and now that it’s getting warmer this room gets to nearly 100F during the day.

This room has a closet attached. The previous owners knocked a hole into the wall in the closet and installed a window A/C unit. Sadly the A/C cools only the closet! The cold air stays in there when I leave the closet door open or stick a box fan in the doorway.

Here’s what I’m considering as a temporary measure until we have some remodeling done in a couple years:

1. Install a duct in the wall connecting the closet to main room, a few feet down from the ceiling
2. Install a vent grill on the main room side
3. Install one of these vent booster fans on the closet side to pull cold air out of the closet and blow it into the main room

Is there anything horribly wrong with this idea?

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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

What leads you to believe the current system installed in the home has enough capacity to service this additional room? I wouldn't make that assumption.

If it doesn't you probably want to put a minisplit in there.

E: Oh wait you're talking about piping up your window ac unit in a closet? Um, yeah. Buy a mini split.

SpaceCadetBob
Dec 27, 2012

Mattavist posted:

Looking for advice on what will be my first HVAC project! Bought a house last year and summer is upon me. Our living room is an additional room that was added on top of our garage. It is not connected to the HVAC in the rest of the house. In the winter we used a space heater, and now that it’s getting warmer this room gets to nearly 100F during the day.

This room has a closet attached. The previous owners knocked a hole into the wall in the closet and installed a window A/C unit. Sadly the A/C cools only the closet! The cold air stays in there when I leave the closet door open or stick a box fan in the doorway.

Here’s what I’m considering as a temporary measure until we have some remodeling done in a couple years:

1. Install a duct in the wall connecting the closet to main room, a few feet down from the ceiling
2. Install a vent grill on the main room side
3. Install one of these vent booster fans on the closet side to pull cold air out of the closet and blow it into the main room

Is there anything horribly wrong with this idea?



If the room is getting actually into the 100F range it sounds more like an insulation problem than an AC problem.

It sounds like you are trying to turn that closet into a jury rigged air handler, and if that is as much of a temporary solution as you want to do then you need to setup both a supply and return air path. (suck air into the closet through one opening, and blow it back out through another.)

What kind of remodeling plans do you have for the space? Again, having a 100F living space is just bad, so it would be pretty high on my priority list. Like posted above, a minisplit is the real solution as it will also give you heat in the winter.

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Super-NintendoUser
Jan 16, 2004

COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES
Soiled Meat
If one of my mini split indoor units had a couple drops of dark oil under it that indicates a refrigerant leak right? I turned the system off and called the guy but given that it's memorial day I can imagine he'll come right away.

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