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Magnetic North
Dec 15, 2008

Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

Jedit posted:

Do I recall hearing somewhere that Gil Hova is a dick?

Seemingly not as far as I can find. What you're probably thinking of was that (cw: sexual assault, sexual situations, violence) JR Honeycutt has been accused of abuse. He was working with Gil on the 2P version of Networks called The Rival Networks. Honeycutt was removed from the project when these accusations came to light, along with many other projects.

The victim/accuser is currently being sued by Honeycutt for defamation as I linked to in March. I could find no more recent information, so I don't know how it has proceeded. Her GoFundMe is here.

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Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Magnetic North posted:

Seemingly not as far as I can find. What you're probably thinking of was that (cw: sexual assault, sexual situations, violence) JR Honeycutt has been accused of abuse. He was working with Gil on the 2P version of Networks called The Rival Networks. Honeycutt was removed from the project when these accusations came to light, along with many other projects.


You're right, that's what I was remembering. Thanks.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant

grate deceiver posted:

Last week, after it waiting on a shelf in pristine state for a year, I have finally played the cube game. drat, that was some good cubin'. 6 people, we were all first timers, but it turned out to not be that complicated to grasp the core idea. I ended up as unity, and I think I realised too late that the colored techs are useless to me and I should probable just use them to upgrade my grey cube production.
Great game overall, I can see how it could get better with even more people, but the table space... :negative:

I can't think of a more complicated game that plays so fast. For me, the game is like exercise -> I never want to get it down off the shelf, but I also feel exhilarated when I'm done.

Frozen Peach
Aug 25, 2004

garbage man from a garbage can

Jedit posted:

Do I recall hearing somewhere that Gil Hova is a dick?

Yes. Yes he is.

I posted a while back on one of the facebook boardgame designers groups and this was his response:



WhiteHowler
Apr 3, 2001

I'M HUGE!

Frozen Peach posted:

Yes. Yes he is.

I posted a while back on one of the facebook boardgame designers groups and this was his response:
I don't fully understand his response out of context, but it sounds like he's just kind of a dipshit rather than being actively toxic?

Frozen Peach
Aug 25, 2004

garbage man from a garbage can

WhiteHowler posted:

I don't fully understand his response out of context, but it sounds like he's just kind of a dipshit rather than being actively toxic?

Sorry, the question I posed for the group was how to make an abstract euro inclusive and diverse, when it's mostly pushing cubes. I was looking for solutions to make my games say they're for everyone, rather than just appealing to the white straight cishet male euro gamer demographic.

It's incredibly dismissive to say that queer people don't like games about scores and winning.
It's incredibly hosed up to say that transgender people want magic estrogen patches that improve productivity.

A lot of it is just willful ignorance, and really frustrating.

Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

Frozen Peach posted:

Sorry, the question I posed for the group was how to make an abstract euro inclusive and diverse, when it's mostly pushing cubes. I was looking for solutions to make my games say they're for everyone, rather than just appealing to the white straight cishet male euro gamer demographic.

It's incredibly dismissive to say that queer people don't like games about scores and winning.
It's incredibly hosed up to say that transgender people want magic estrogen patches that improve productivity.

A lot of it is just willful ignorance, and really frustrating.

You don’t know it’s ‘willful’ ignorance. A lot of it is lack of exposure to other ideas. A lot of people have told me that before the Alma Mater thread they had never considered representation was an issue but after reading my post didn’t buy the game and the issue went up much higher in their consideration of games they would buy in the future.

Sounds to me like Mr Hova is trying and flailing. A statement telling them what is important to you and why it’s important will go a lot further than throwing them under the bus.

I feel like your conclusion is a big reach. I’d suggest separating the bad from the good and working to get more good and less bad. Gil Hova has been designing for a long time in this space and he might have something to offer.

Frozen Peach
Aug 25, 2004

garbage man from a garbage can

Mayveena posted:

I feel like your conclusion is a big reach. I’d suggest separating the bad from the good and working to get more good and less bad. Gil Hova has been designing for a long time in this space and he might have something to offer.

You're not wrong, and a whole lot of the thread that came from was garbage and nearly drove me to quit... Hova's statements were just a wave in a sea of nonsense.

I haven't had the "opportunity" for lack of a better word, to actually converse with him, and my thoughts on that thread have largely lessened over the past few years as I've become more comfortable with my place in the greater industry. I also haven't had the opportunity to really talk about this with anyone besides a few close friends.

I wouldn't be opposed to having that conversation with him, but I also haven't gone out of my way to try either. Take that as you will.

Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

Frozen Peach posted:

You're not wrong, and a whole lot of the thread that came from was garbage and nearly drove me to quit... Hova's statements were just a wave in a sea of nonsense.

I haven't had the "opportunity" for lack of a better word, to actually converse with him, and my thoughts on that thread have largely lessened over the past few years as I've become more comfortable with my place in the greater industry. I also haven't had the opportunity to really talk about this with anyone besides a few close friends.

I wouldn't be opposed to having that conversation with him, but I also haven't gone out of my way to try either. Take that as you will.

That makes sense to me. If you don’t need him and have experienced people you’re dealing with and are happy with him then gently caress him. It all depends on what you’re looking for to be successful. My point was that he didn’t seem like MAGA so maybe if you questioned him and sought to get him to clarify his words, that he might still work for you.

White people can be very very clueless at times, but I have found that having an open discussion can help.

Frozen Peach
Aug 25, 2004

garbage man from a garbage can

Mayveena posted:

That makes sense to me. If you don’t need him and have experienced people you’re dealing with and are happy with him then gently caress him. It all depends on what you’re looking for to be successful. My point was that he didn’t seem like MAGA so maybe if you questioned him and sought to get him to clarify his words, that he might still work for you.

White people can be very very clueless at times, but I have found that having an open discussion can help.

For sure. At the time I made the post, I hardly knew anyone "in the industry" and especially not in the realm of making inclusive and diverse designs. Things have changed a lot in the last 4 years though. I'm still learning who my friends are in the industry, and that's really hard given the sheer amount of "dipshits" that are vaguely on the side of being problematic and separating them from the truly toxic and vile people I want nothing to do with.

Trying to figure out who truly has my best interests at heart has been difficult, especially as I look for publishers for my next two designs.

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so


I would love a software patch that would improve creativity for 24-hours :f5h:

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

pshaw everyone knows it’s the androgen blockers and not estrogen itself that makes you think clearer, c’mon

KingKapalone
Dec 20, 2005
1/16 Native American + 1/2 Hungarian = Totally Badass
Anyone have a board game table recommendation? I hear they aren't too hard to build from some of the plans online and are much cheaper, but I don't think I can get a friend with the tools or time to help.

Looking for one with the recessed felt/vinyl play area plus a topper. The larger Jasper from boardgametables.com could work but $1400 is a lot especially when this hobby will dwindle in two months with a newborn.

I thought maybe there could be Memorial Day sales since lots of furniture goes on sale but this is a nerd product so...

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

KingKapalone posted:

Anyone have a board game table recommendation? I hear they aren't too hard to build from some of the plans online and are much cheaper, but I don't think I can get a friend with the tools or time to help.

Looking for one with the recessed felt/vinyl play area plus a topper. The larger Jasper from boardgametables.com could work but $1400 is a lot especially when this hobby will dwindle in two months with a newborn.

I thought maybe there could be Memorial Day sales since lots of furniture goes on sale but this is a nerd product so...

Most of the "board game tables" with toppers are more like "dining tables with recessed board game surface". So $1400 is pretty cheap for something like that.

If I was buying I'd get a Wyrmwood and keep it the rest of your life (and then some).

Frozen Peach
Aug 25, 2004

garbage man from a garbage can

KingKapalone posted:

Anyone have a board game table recommendation? I hear they aren't too hard to build from some of the plans online and are much cheaper, but I don't think I can get a friend with the tools or time to help.

Looking for one with the recessed felt/vinyl play area plus a topper. The larger Jasper from boardgametables.com could work but $1400 is a lot especially when this hobby will dwindle in two months with a newborn.

I thought maybe there could be Memorial Day sales since lots of furniture goes on sale but this is a nerd product so...

I still sing the praises of my table from Carolina Game Tables, though those are "pricey" still too (when I got it, they were a fraction of the cost of competing tables, but with other makers in the price range they're just comparable now). The thing I like about CGT is that it feels more like a piece of furniture, than a game table. I rarely use it as a game table. It's my actual dining room table, and it works great for that. But when I want to game? I can pull the top off and reveal a gaming surface. I love it for that.

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so
Alternately, I use a folding table with custom-cut neoprene mat. Big enough for games but I can put it away in 90 seconds so I don't have some dumbass table taking up space otherwise. Can also move it to the side of the room temporarily if there's a multi-day game going on.

SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.



https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/345574/sherlok-holms-sherlock-holmes

Sherlock Holmes by Dr. Reiner Knizia is a deduction game for 2-5 players, which according to BGG has only been published in Russia and later remade in Japan.

The box credits Knizia as the author, and a Russian artist for the art, but doesn't list any developer. It kinda shows.

Inside the Eldritch-Horror-sized box (really) you get a board of connected numbered spaces, with a score track, and 5 sets of player components, including notepads of 10 glossy pages each.





Also, 6 case cards, and 60 action cards - this is an action card Knizia.



And there's a pile of case tokens, the stuff players need to find and collect. They come in six sets of five pieces: gun, fingerprint, microscope, magnifying glass, and Johnny Depp. The backs of all tokens show the type, but not the colour or the number. The value distribution between the tokens is different for each case except red and yellow (what).



Rules, in case anyone wants to try a PnP.
You put the tokens face-down randomly on the thirty numbered spaces of the board, put the black Holmes figure on Baker Street 221B (space 1), shuffle the action card deck, deal 5 cards to every player, and lay out five other cards face up.
Then each player gets one random card from the 6 case cards, checks it out, and keeps it secret. The card tells you what colour tokens you're looking for. Then you pick your detective colour, and they don't have to match the case colour - can't match if you get the black case.
Players set their score tokens to 0, take the pads, and put their detectives on Scotland Yard, the one location which never has a clue. The first player (whoever watched or read Holmes stuff most recently) takes a turn. Turn pass "in a circle."


Who shuffled this???

On your turn you do the following, in order:

1. Stay in place, or move 1 or 2 spaces. You move mostly along streets. Ignore the arrows or pavement colour: those are for Holmes. In addition, locations 1 and 8 are connected by the Underground, so moving between them is like walking one street.

2. Investigate and maybe collect a token. With your detective standing on a token, you can whip out a card from your hand, that has a matching icon in the top, highlighted position. You look at the token in secret. If it's a token of your case, you may collect it by revealing more cards with the same icon so that the icons add up to at least the number on the token (the card you used to investigate counts). All revealed cards are discarded. Always keep a record of where you find and collect your tokens.



3. Draw cards. You draw 2 cards if you moved, and 3 cards if you didn't. The cards can be taken from the face-up line, or straight from the deck, but you must decide how many you take from the deck first, without checking what you're getting. If the deck runs out, reshuffle the discards into a new deck. After drawing, refill the face-up row back to five cards. This may trigger Sherlock Holmes.

Triggering Sherlock Holmes. If the new card drawn into the face-up line is a Holmes card, immediately move the Holmes piece along the bright road with arrows to the next space with a token of the same type as the icon on the drawn card. Continue refilling the face-up row, resolving every Holmes trigger. Only once all new cards have been resolved, reveal the token Holmes is standing on for everyone to make note of. Then flip it back.



Special abilities:
In addition to the normal structure of the turn and primary card use, you can use secondary abilities printed on the cards under the icons row. Each ability can be used only once per turn, except Watson who can be used as much as you like.



Cabbie: Discard to move to any space during the movement phase.

Watson: Wild card, discard to get any 1 icon when investigating or collecting tokens.

Holmes: 2-for-1 deal
Ability 1: before the draw phase, discard to peek at a token with the same icon at any space on the board.
Ability 2: during the draw phase, discard to draw one more card, but still no more than 3. Basically, lets you draw three cards even if you moved, and dump Holmeses of useless suits.

Lestrade: Discard to peek at the token another player is examining either by investigation or by using Holmes.

Deck composition is simple. Each icon has a set of 12 cards: 3 Holmeses (2 icons), 3 Watsons (2 icons), 3 Lestrades (1 icon), 3 Cabbies (1 icon).

Endgame:
After you have collected at least three tokens of your case, you may go to the Scotland Yard space and there discard a Lestrade card for its handcuffs icon to solve the case. Place your detective on the middle one out of the five spaces where your case tokens are/were. So, if your tokens are at 3, 7, 15, 20 and 24, the middle one is 15. You leave your detective there, calling the cops on the hideout of the criminal, and you're out of the game until the scoring comes.

Countdown:
From the moment any player calls for an arrest, all other players are on a timer: until they crack their case, at the end of their turn they must reduce their score by one. If you hit -10 you lose.



Scoring:
Once everyone's busted a hideout or timed out, reveal the all remaining tokens on the board. Remove tokens not related to player cases, show all pad records.
Everyone who has called for an arrest at the correct, middle, space gets 10 points. Then you get points for the collected tokens, equal to the numbers on the tokens. Then you get the points from the case card i.e. if you have two tokens connected by a line on the card, they are linked clues, and get you 1 extra point for each connection.



Have I mentioned that all case cards are different?



The maximum score is 26. You can beat someone who finished early with three tokens by collecting all five of yours within a few turns.

Anyway, whoever scores the most, wins. Between tied players, whoever finished first wins.

Here's a better shot of just the scoring pad. It also offers a more legible map.


Things not covered by the rules:
Hand limit (none specified). A player can just stand and draw turn after turn until everyone runs out, in theory.
Whether a player discards their hand when they call the cops. It says you stop drawing, but doesn't mention discarding.
What counts as using Lestrade's ability once per turn. Once between your turns makes it bad. Once during every other player's turn is good, limiting you only if someone both sherlocks and investigates a token.
How long case cards remain a secret. Do you reveal your case when you get the first token? Or only at the final scoring, and someone should keep a record of how many icons you're using to claim your clues?

Also, I'd recommend writing down your player colour, and making a player aid showing token points.

First impressions:
It plays in under an hour, it's light on the rules, and seems fun? Realising where your last clue is by elimination is satisfying, like proving a win in Battle Line. Very Knizia.
There's very little real downtime, since you're working your case and watching other players to see what they're investigating and collecting, especially if you can Lestrade their find.
Don't buy it, make it: the box is huge, very empty, and the card quality is meh. The Japanese edition seems cleaner visually, too.

taser rates
Mar 30, 2010
That does sound quite interesting, but that board is truly awful lol.

The Eyes Have It
Feb 10, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

SelenicMartian posted:

Players set their score tokens to 0, take the pads, and put their detectives on Scotland Yard, the one location which never has a clue.

As a huge Sherlock Holmes fan: nice

sensible chuckle.jpg

The Eyes Have It fucked around with this message at 04:57 on May 24, 2022

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


Arcs is live
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2074786394/arcs

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

What's the verdict on this so far? I backed Oath, played a digital version of it and was so so, and it has sat unplayed on my shelf ever since. Very pretty though!

Also, got a sort-of 5p game of 1867 in this weekend. I really like this game but holy poo poo is a nightmare to teach for newbies even though for all intents and purposes it's quite friendly. Still having trouble getting into the 3Ts but I think I screwed up again and didn't float the minor(s) with enough cash and was too busy teaching to remember to do some shenanigans with loans and selling trains between companies. I think the beginning is kind of dull because of the lack of shared enjoyment over paying dividends and seeing that cash come trickling in but when the majors start forming that delay almost makes them seem all the sweeter.

Maybe I shouldn't bother and just start with '30 or MEX since they're both way simpler but also meaner.

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so
Looks like what you get if you turned TI and Eclipse into a Pinterest board

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant

FulsomFrank posted:

What's the verdict on this so far? I backed Oath, played a digital version of it and was so so, and it has sat unplayed on my shelf ever since. Very pretty though!

There's probably going to be more discussion in the crowdfunding thread. It looks like actual plays will start leaking out.

Having read the rules, it looks like a Kyle Ferrin-illustrated, 2 hour game of Eclipse with trick-taking instead of action selection as a core mechanic.

Bottom Liner
Feb 15, 2006


a specific vein of lasagna
Been working on a balance patch for FCM Ketchup as part of a new Food Truck module I'm making. Here's the changelog:

quote:

Milestone changes:

Marketer - removed -2 Distance

Lemonade - Changed to -1 Distance

Trainer - Added may train while working, preserving color

Marketer still really strong with the free hires and choice of first sale milestone, trainer feels much more competitive now and the train while working isnt a huge buff to them but nice late game to be able to pivot as needed

Marketer will still usually go lemonade for the distance unless map is really favorable for them, then they can grab the fridge or pay salary with food

Food Truck module - It's a moveable 1x1 restaurant token that moves in step 6 "place or move restaurants". It can fulfill partial demand, and has a range of 2/3/4 and capacity of 1/2/3 items depending on training level.


Here's the updated milestones if you'd like to try:




We've tested a handful of 1v1 games trying out Marketer/Trainer/Recruiter and it feels much better balanced. This was all done with nearly 75 games of Ketchup played and talking with others with a lot of plays.

BinaryDoubts
Jun 6, 2013

Looking at it now, it really is disgusting. The flesh is transparent. From the start, I had no idea if it would even make a clapping sound. So I diligently reproduced everything about human hands, the bones, joints, and muscles, and then made them slap each other pretty hard.

FulsomFrank posted:

What's the verdict on this so far?
There's a Space Biff review of the base game. He seems pretty lukewarm on the campaign-less mode, although Cole Wherle was in the reddit comments saying that they've made significant changes to the balance, added events and "when researched" instant bonuses to the techs to make them more attractive.

Personally, I'm likely to wait for retail. Leder games seem to change massively after the Kickstarter and I wouldn't be sure that the version they're showing now is what you'll get when it ships.

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so
oooooh poo poo its kickstarter day




~fancy metal robots~


with magnets


but what's this weird box that wasn't listed on the kickstarter.....?


ten double-sided posters of each character and like 10 notebooks with stories and "mission journals" and lore poo poo


something stuffed in the bottom?



holy poo poo


its real



CTG does it again

youcallthatatwist
Sep 22, 2013

FulsomFrank posted:

What's the verdict on this so far? I backed Oath, played a digital version of it and was so so, and it has sat unplayed on my shelf ever since. Very pretty though!

CitizenKeen posted:

There's probably going to be more discussion in the crowdfunding thread. It looks like actual plays will start leaking out.

Having read the rules, it looks like a Kyle Ferrin-illustrated, 2 hour game of Eclipse with trick-taking instead of action selection as a core mechanic.

Arcs in its single-session form is essentially the core system from Root rebuilt to be far less reliant on player asymmetry. If you liked the part of Root that was a heads-down logistics puzzle that can get very scrappy and combative, you'll probably enjoy Arcs.

It currently doesn't have the same narrative potency as the campaign game; I think some of this just comes down to the player techs being too weak at the moment.

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009
lol I might finally have a good chance to hey a board game night together if I start preparations now and plan for it a couple months out except the idea of actually running a game night stresses me out so much I may just ditch the idea altogether

It leaves me in the stupid situation of feeling stressed by having all these games that I don't get to play and stressed over the idea of actually having people to play them with.

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


You go on your discord server/chat program of choice and type
"I am running [Insert Game]+[Insert Game] on the [Insert Date]. Kick off is from [Insert Time].

Click [insert Emoji] if you can make it."

Then typically an expected time to play and how-to-play videos for interest checks.
You own the games. You get to decide what to play and when.

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009

Infinitum posted:

You go on your discord server/chat program of choice and type
"I am running [Insert Game]+[Insert Game] on the [Insert Date]. Kick off is from [Insert Time].

Click [insert Emoji] if you can make it."

Then typically an expected time to play and how-to-play videos for interest checks.
You own the games. You get to decide what to play and when.

I have e/n levels of brain disease that prevent me from doing even the most basic of things without feeling exhausted from stress, anxiety, depression, and guilt

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


As someone who also suffers from clinical depression, and anxiety I 100% totally get it.

Only advice I can give is that it's better to do something poorly than not at all.

If my above advice is 100% of "how to organise a day", then go 10%
"Does anyone want to play boardgames soon?" And go from there

It took me a while but it's great once you can get to "if my brain says everything sucks anyway, gently caress it lets see what happens" territory

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

I remember the first night a really hosted board games. I stressed way out and definitely overprepared. Now it's just people let themselves in, we shoot poo poo while they crack open their drinks and I get the game ready. If time allows we'll gush over how good the game we just played was afterwards.

Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

FirstAidKite posted:

I have e/n levels of brain disease that prevent me from doing even the most basic of things without feeling exhausted from stress, anxiety, depression, and guilt

Make sure you know the game well and play games that don't have rules that would take a lot of explanation.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

SettingSun posted:

I remember the first night a really hosted board games. I stressed way out and definitely overprepared. Now it's just people let themselves in, we shoot poo poo while they crack open their drinks and I get the game ready. If time allows we'll gush over how good the game we just played was afterwards.

My first time was similar. Was worried, but over a few hours I calmed down, didn't worry about hosting duties, had a store bought lasagna prepared, people had a really good time. I was definitely ready to make it a monthly thing, could definitely do it again with less stress.

That was February 2020.

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009

Mayveena posted:

Make sure you know the game well and play games that don't have rules that would take a lot of explanation.

I have bad news about most of my game collection lol

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

Does anyone have any thoughts about 60 Second City? It’s currently stupidly cheap at Target and I’m always on the prowl for lighter 2p games to play with my spouse.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you
Know your audience too. I've got a couple dozen people in my life I play board games with but there's like, 4 or 5 who are down for and enjoy anything midweight or heavier. Sometimes "the game I want to play today" is incompatible with "the people I want to hang out with today"

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

FirstAidKite posted:

I have e/n levels of brain disease that prevent me from doing even the most basic of things without feeling exhausted from stress, anxiety, depression, and guilt

just say gently caress it and pull out monikers and the fuzzies and other toy/games

my best game night ever had everyone double-fisting margaritas while eating a toilet-bowl sized vessel of guacamole and playing monikers all night

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


Urgh PC has died and is likely mobo, so I'm going to flip some poo poo and get some mid range replacement parts to soften the blow of dropping a couple of grand on a PC I don't need.

Root Maruaders just came in and I can probably flip it for a high price :sigh:

Edit: Put a refund request in for my Weather Machine order. Which is sad, but it's also $600aud towards parts.

Had Weather Machine, Kanban EV, and Rococo Deluxe. :rip:

Infinitum fucked around with this message at 08:44 on May 25, 2022

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CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant

Infinitum posted:

Urgh PC has died and is likely mobo, so I'm going to flip some poo poo and get some mid range replacement parts to soften the blow of dropping a couple of grand on a PC I don't need.

Root Maruaders just came in and I can probably flip it for a high price :sigh:

Edit: Put a refund request in for my Weather Machine order. Which is sad, but it's also $600aud towards parts.

Had Weather Machine, Kanban EV, and Rococo Deluxe. :rip:

Oh nan, I’m sorry. You talked about those a lot.

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