READ OP! War in Ukraine: a distressed blender making too many margaritas at once

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Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Ynglaur posted:

Well, apparently Russia already owns Italy's politicians' courage...

Edit:
All this talk of technicals reminds me of something I've thought for 20 years: Western armies really lack armored cars. We tend to either go unarmored and wheeled, or very heavy. Strykers and the like are the lightest we seem to go. The US military police have one, but that's about it. The utility of something that has a lot of tactical mobility, good firepower against light infantry, and enough armor to survive nearby mortar shells is very high. I don't know why we don't keep more in inventories, especially with things like CROWS systems able to make them usable by small crews.

The US produced 12,000 MRAPs just for the GWoT, there's plenty of armoured cars all over.

# ? May 23, 2022 19:18

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# ? May 23, 2024 13:12

yunichel: Apr 27, 2010

That's David Aleksandrovich Garcia to you, be respectful please.

# ? May 23, 2022 19:19

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

Risky Bisquick posted:

Screenshots, should be in order. RU language

Short translation: Some guy (presumably RU, FSB?) tried to offer the belarussian ultras money, cars, and to wipe clean their problems in Belarus (they were previously persecuted by the regime after the 2020 protests) if they left Ukraine and stopped fighting against the Russians. Yankee sort of goes along with it for a while, the other guy is clearly trying to set up some sort of surrender to RU forces, Yankee then starts to troll the guy, asking if he thought he (Yankee) was seriously considering the offer at all, ends up posting pic of dead Rashist. Yankee goes on to say how he is proud of UA and is willing to die for their people who showed such kindness to him. Someone else can do a word for word translation its sort of funny.

https://imgur.com/a/sheLzx9

The other guy insists he is also a football ultra and namedrops nicknames that apparently should convince Yankee of fan solidarity, one of his arguments, of course, is that Yankee takes orders from jew Zelensky and that should shame a rightwing ultra. Denazification!

fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 19:30 on May 23, 2022

# ? May 23, 2022 19:27

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Alchenar posted:

The US produced 12,000 MRAPs just for the GWoT, there's plenty of armoured cars all over.

And there's a more recent one with at least 13,000 built so far, so I'm not sure what they're talking about : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Light_Tactical_Vehicle

Does this mean we have a shitton of old MRAP's sitting around we could give Ukraine?

# ? May 23, 2022 19:28

SlowBloke: Aug 14, 2017

Ynglaur posted:

Well, apparently Russia already owns Italy's politicians' courage...

Edit:
All this talk of technicals reminds me of something I've thought for 20 years: Western armies really lack armored cars. We tend to either go unarmored and wheeled, or very heavy. Strykers and the like are the lightest we seem to go. The US military police have one, but that's about it. The utility of something that has a lot of tactical mobility, good firepower against light infantry, and enough armor to survive nearby mortar shells is very high. I don't know why we don't keep more in inventories, especially with things like CROWS systems able to make them usable by small crews.

Lots of countries have "intermediate" armored cars, the French have the VBL and Italy has the LMV(also known as Rhys) just to pick two.

# ? May 23, 2022 19:30

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Nobody really talks about them because there's not really any sexy special sauce that goes into making a reasonable 4x4 with a steel compartment and really good suspension.

# ? May 23, 2022 19:32

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

So lmao

A few weeks ago Ru propaganda lit up with stories about Poland annexing the parts of Ukraine which Ukraine took as a result of the M-R treaty. It makes sense, as they assume all states act in the same revanchivist way as Russia. The root of that story seems to be a Ukrainian law which would allow Polish citizens a special citizen status in Ukraine, completely obliterating the idea that there is national enmity which isn't overwhelmed by emnity toward Russia.

https://twitter.com/politblogme/status/1528380890610651138?s=20&t=vLFXwilIW00WL-68pTs9Rw

Poland and Ukraine developing the same relationship as the US and Canada => "Poland will partition Ukraine!!"

FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 19:37 on May 23, 2022

# ? May 23, 2022 19:34

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

Alchenar posted:

The US produced 12,000 MRAPs just for the GWoT, there's plenty of armoured cars all over.

My understanding--which might be wrong--is that MRAPs are okay on the road, but don't have the same off-road mobility as a Jeep or Toyota 4x4.

# ? May 23, 2022 19:35

The X-man cometh: Nov 1, 2009

What about compared to an up-armored Humvee?

# ? May 23, 2022 19:40

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

I'm guessing Erdogan is using the new found NATO solidarity for his own expansion

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1528790458197020673?s=20&t=HeWkXiauy9reSwN-9TgBZg

Perhaps this is beyond the realm of the thread, but it really seems this is sparking a chain reaction of regional conflict. Az-Arm and now a renewed occupation of Syria by Turkey.

The smuggler's run to Sverodonetsk looks mad

https://twitter.com/ArisMessinis/status/1528763701859209216?s=20&t=TYm0oG9pmI_N0-t1D-u1og

Anyone know what the dirt mounds are supposed to be doing?

FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 23, 2022

# ? May 23, 2022 19:41

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

FishBulbia posted:

So lmao

A few weeks ago Ru propaganda lit up with stories about Poland annexing the parts of Ukraine which Ukraine took as a result of the M-R treaty. It makes sense, as they assume all states act in the same revanchivist way as Russia. The root of that story seems to be a Ukrainian law which would allow Polish citizens a special citizen status in Ukraine, completely obliterating the idea that there is national enmity which isn't overwhelmed by emnity toward Russia.

https://twitter.com/politblogme/status/1528380890610651138?s=20&t=vLFXwilIW00WL-68pTs9Rw

Poland and Ukraine developing the same relationship as the US and Canada => "Poland will partition Ukraine!!"

Looking into this, it's even funnier than it seems--the Ukrainian law is just reciprocating the legal protections that Poland has extended to Ukrainian citizens in light of the current crisis. Which, since Poland is not being invaded and Polish refugees are not flooding Ukraine's borders, makes it a largely symbolic gesture. It's a diplomatic fruit basket being sent to thank Poland for their help.

# ? May 23, 2022 19:46

Cicero: Dec 17, 2003; Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Ynglaur posted:

My understanding--which might be wrong--is that MRAPs are okay on the road, but don't have the same off-road mobility as a Jeep or Toyota 4x4.

Yeah apparently they're insanely heavy.

But it sounds like the JLTV doesn't have this problem and is a capable off-roader: https://www.motortrend.com/features/oshkosh-jltv-first-drive/amp/

# ? May 23, 2022 19:46

Ikasuhito: Sep 29, 2013; Haram as Fuck.

FishBulbia posted:

I'm guessing Erdogan is using the new found NATO solidarity for his own expansion

Perhaps this is beyond the realm of the thread, but it really seems this is sparking a chain reaction of regional conflict. Az-Arm and now a renewed occupation of Syria by Turkey.

Honestly i'm surprised Erdogan hasn't been a lot more aggressive in regards to Syria. I imagine finding out that Russia is a lot less of an unstoppable beast than most people surmised would cause them to rethink their dealings in regards to their lackys.

# ? May 23, 2022 19:49

Keisari: May 24, 2011

Ikasuhito posted:

Honestly i'm surprised Erdogan hasn't been a lot more aggressive in regards to Syria. I imagine finding out that Russia is a lot less of an unstoppable beast than most people surmised would cause them to rethink their dealings in regards to their lackys.

Do we have reason to believe Turkey's army is much better than Russia's?

# ? May 23, 2022 19:52

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

Ikasuhito posted:

Honestly i'm surprised Erdogan hasn't been a lot more aggressive in regards to Syria. I imagine finding out that Russia is a lot less of an unstoppable beast than most people surmised would cause them to rethink their dealings in regards to their lackys.

YPG are more American allies of convenience than Russian lackeys

# ? May 23, 2022 19:53

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

cinci zoo sniper posted:

That�s a dam, they may have hoped to cause flooding somewhere else.

It's a causeway too. Breaking an embankment that large is going to take a very big bomb, not sure how large but judging by the photos it's still there. (Though structural damage could result in water starting to erode it slowly until it breaks...) It's also possible that the road itself was the target, if it is logistically valuable.

# ? May 23, 2022 19:55

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

Keisari posted:

Do we have reason to believe Turkey's army is much better than Russia's?

They've pulled this off before. Now Russia's trigger forces are leaving. Same as in Artsakh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Turkish_offensive_into_north-eastern_Syria

We're in a low speed proxy world war right now. Probably have been since 2015. By 2030 I believe many maps of the Middle East and former Soviet Union will be redrawn.

THey're really set on poroshenko still. Bravery does not wash away the chocolate fingerprints left all over the crime documents.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1528681775140159488?s=20&t=MevAJlO7ycxOYjdUu6r2SA

FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 20:03 on May 23, 2022

# ? May 23, 2022 19:55

Tuna-Fish: Sep 13, 2017

Ikasuhito posted:

Honestly i'm surprised Erdogan hasn't been a lot more aggressive in regards to Syria. I imagine finding out that Russia is a lot less of an unstoppable beast than most people surmised would cause them to rethink their dealings in regards to their lackys.

Turkey is allowing Russia to pull their troops out before making their move. Russia has been doing that piecemeal for a while now. Why not wait until you can no longer accidentally murder Russians when you invade?

# ? May 23, 2022 20:03

Vesi: Jan 12, 2005; pikachu looking at?

there was an article in the biggest newspaper in Finland where they interview a group of finnish fighters they apparently ran into by accident, I've google translated it with some minimal editing, pretty interesting
https://dynamic.hs.fi/a/2022/suomalaistaistelijat/

quote:

A white van has parked in front of the hotel.

It is May 15, 2022. There are some tens of kilometers from the industrial city of Zaporizhia to the southern front, where Ukrainian and Russian troops fought village by village.
About a dozen younger men unload from the van. There is something recognizable about them, even though the uniforms refer to the Ukrainian army. It's easy to realize these men are not Ukrainians.

If you take a closer look at the van, you will be surprised: the car has Finnish license plates. And when the first of the men marches in through the front door of the hotel, a small Finnish flag appears on the back of the backpack.

The man walks to the reception desk and seems shaken as he is greeted in Finnish. After hearing that we are from Helsingin Sanomat, he withdraws and announces that he cannot speak.

Then the hotel lobby comes to life. It is taken over by a man who clearly does not keep his candle under a stable. He introduces himself as Topi Huhtala a little later. Huhtala, 26, is the leader of a group of Finnish volunteers and, fortunately, an outward-looking person.

He says he comes from Kauhava in Southern Ostrobothnia. It can also be heard from his dialect.

Nearby is a 33-year-old man who asks that he be used only by his nickname, Rattlesnake. Rattlesnake says he doesn�t want to talk to the public. In the end, though, for the next two days, he does little else.

The last Finn to walk into the lobby is a young man. He is 21-year-old Joonas Vainio from Pihtiputaa.

The other members of the Finnish group - all twenty to thirty - hardly even look at us or say a word. They take the keys to their rooms from the receptionist and head to the lifts with their backpacks.

'Everyone is clearly very tired and overwhelmed. It is visible from their eyes and their over-tuned nature. '

Later in the evening, it turns out they are still in the aftermath of a fight. Two days earlier, they have been in a gruesome situation at the front line of the southern front. Two of the soldiers of the Finnish group have been taken to a hospital in Zaporizhia.

"Standby is still on," says Topi Huhtala. "It always goes a couple of days after the fight that the body is in the rounds."

Huhtala, Vainio and Rattlesnake start telling in the hotel lobby what happened a day earlier.

On Friday, May 13, a group of Finnish fighters led by Huhtala took part in a large-scale counterattack by the Ukrainian army as part of an international team. They are not allowed to tell the exact locations of the battles, but this battle took place about a hundred kilometers from Zaporizhia, deep behind the front lines.

The task was to quickly take over the village, which was held by Russian troops, and to wait for the back of the Ukrainian army to actually take over the village.

The first was an international group of volunteers, mostly from the United States in their twenties and thirties. They have also come to the hotel to rest themselves.

A group of Finnish fighters followed. It waited in the woods on the edge of the field for the leadership of the Ukrainian battalion to issue a movement order.

There was no order. The movement of the attack stopped as the previous group had run into problems on the bridge leading to the village. Meanwhile, Russian troops had managed to pull the grenade launcher team to the side of the Finns, to the other end of the field.

As if from nowhere, the worst happened: it whistled, rumbled, and exploded. Huhtala describes that on the other side of the field was a �horrifying number of flashes of Russian grenade launchers�.

�We hit the ground. It started to rain grenades. They came to earth as a series of fires. It was a total war. �

One of the Finns - we're calling him Kalle, because he doesn't want his name revealed - began to shout that he was hit. The air was full of smoke, wood chips and dirt.
Vainio says that he crawled ten meters to Kalle and started to tighten a bandage.

However, Vainio had to press �head into the peat� again because another Russian grenade concentration came to the same place. When it was over, Vainio was able to cut Kalle's trouser leg with his knife. The legs were full of small shards of grenades, and one larger piece had pierced the tibia.

Another Finn was also wounded. Let's call this Kuopio man Koistis, for example. He had got a small fragment on his cheek and another on his waist. He had been unconscious for a moment but woke up and crawled to Vainio.

�He asked,� Do I have something on my cheek �. I said there was a hole in it, �Vainio says.

Next we had to get Kalle and Koistinen to the medical area farther from the front line. The ��llit�lli�, a Soviet-made MT-LB transport tanker, which had brought the Finnish group to the front line, had already disappeared with its Ukrainian crew.

The group was in a panic. Without a car, transporting a hundred-kilo Kalle to a medical site would be very slow and almost certainly devastating.

An abandoned Jeep Cherokee was found in the a nearby bush. When Kalle and Koistinen were picked up and Huhtala set out to drive towards the medical area, the third Russian grenade launcher hit.

�I decided to just drive through now. We're not stopping anymore, � says Huhtala.

�Throughout our retreat, I was absolutely certain we were going to die,� Rattlesnake adds.

According to the Finns, the operation failed because the top leadership of the Ukrainian forces was not up to date and the communication was unclear. If they were put in order, Ukraine would be able to push Russian troops out of its territory, the Finns say.

The fact that no one in the group talks Ukrainian or russian hardly makes it easier for the Finnish group to fight. They have learned the simplest orders to attack and withdraw, as well as some individual words.

�Yes, it makes you think about how close our departure was. The nearest grenade came a meter away, but luckily the ground was muddy and soft with the rain, it saved us, �Vainio says.

The grenade slid to the soft ground before it exploded, and the shards went up. If the ground had been hard, the fragments would have exploded directly to the sides. One of the fragments hit Vainio's helmet.

At the time of the fight, the Finns had been awake for about 40 hours straight. The adrenaline was so strong that fatigue had not yet been noticed.
But now they notice it.

�I�ve brainstormed that fight a thousand times in my head and wondered what should have been done better,� Vainio says.
�In a war, a person has to be an animal, otherwise you will succumb,� says Huhtala.

As the evening goes on, after several glasses of wine, Rattlesnake mentions the letter combination PTSD. It means post traumatic stress disorder, which is very common in soldiers in combat. It has symptoms like mild nightmares at its mildest, but at its heaviest it completely alienates a person from everyday life, drives them into deep depression and mental health problems.

It�s hard to say who already has symptoms of it and who doesn�t.

"We'll see in Finland what is left after all of this," says Huhtala.

'In late February, the fourth day of Russia's major attack, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyi appealed to pro-Ukrainian foreigners around the world. He announced that Ukraine intends to set up an international volunteer force to support Ukrainian forces. '

There was a commotion in Finland as well. Some dozens of young men woke up to a very rare opportunity: to defend another European state against the Russian offensive army.

There were some discussion forums where the willing exchanged ideas and information, but many acted completely alone and on their own.

Around mid-March, the Finns began to arrive in Ukraine. Huhtala and Vainio traveled to Ukraine alone, unaware of any other Finnish volunteers. Rattlesnake had arranged a date in advance with two other volunteers to go to Warsaw, and from Warsaw they continued across the border to Ukraine.

Rattlesnake was originally from Kontula in eastern Helsinki but currently lives in Malmi. Back in February, he worked at HK-Scan's factory to operate and maintain liver sausage machines. He resigned from the factory, at least for now.

On March 11, Rattlesnake arrived at a training camp for foreign fighters in Javoriv, outside the city of Lviv in western Ukraine.

There was complete chaos in the camp. No one knew in which unit each of the volunteers should be placed. There were people from all walks of life: more experienced soldiers, but also civilians willing to help who had never held a gun.

Rattlesnake had time to be in camp for two nights. The third night he will never forget. That's when Javoriv rose to the headlines almost everywhere in the world. In an attack by Russian cruise missiles, eight missiles escaped through Ukraine's air defense and exploded in a volunteer camp.

�Our departure was really so close. It hit me in the face when we were assured that there was no danger in Lviv, �says Rattlesnake.

He woke up to a loud explosion when the first Russian missile hit a neighboring building. There was, of course, a panic in which the sleepy crowd rushed out of the barracks.
"Some left straight without shoes, I started tying my shoes like an idiot."

Rattlesnake saw two volunteers next to him who had been paralyzed with horror and did not know what to do. Rattlesnake says he tried to get them moving.

Then there was another whistle, and the volunteers hit the ground. Another missile hit the camp. The campers had fled into a dark forest. The flashes of light from the explosions showed the outline of hundreds of campers. After that came six more missiles.

�I was pretty sure that one of them would hit me,� Rattlesnake says.

According to the Ukrainians, at least 35 people died and more than 130 were injured in the attacks. There were about twenty Finns in the camp at that time. About half of them left Ukraine soon after the missile strikes.

Rattlesnake thought about leaving for a few days. Then he decided to stay.

'From the destroyed Javoriv Rattlesnake and other Finns were transferred to another camp in western Ukraine. More young Finnish men soon arrived there. '
The Finns started hanging out with each other, because that's what the Finns do.

It was soon clear that they would set up a separate, entirely Finnish battle group. There were enough of them. They would work with each other according to Finnish warfare style but at the same time as part of wider international and Ukrainian military divisions.

Lieutenant Ralf Sir�n of the reserve was elected team leader. So far, he has been the only Finnish volunteer in Ukraine to have appeared in public. Huhtala became his deputy.

A total of about fifteen Finns have been fighting in Ukraine on two different fronts since mid-April. Initially, the group was stationed on the northern front of Kharkov.

The Finns drove from Kiev in a Renault Trafic van to Kharkov, and the speakers were blaring Sandstorm, by Darude.

On the Kharkiv front, the Finns spent about a week, of which a few days in the actual front line in hard positions. About those days, they don�t want to talk for one reason or another, but the reason may simply be that for military-operational reasons, they are strictly forbidden to speak. These may be, for example, intelligence tasks that need to be kept quiet.

After a week on the Kharkiv front, Finns received 30,000�40,000 hryvnia per beak, or about 960�1,280 euros. It was unclear to them on what grounds some received a 10,000 more than others.

Vainio, 21, is the second youngest in the Finnish group, the youngest is 20 years old. Until the beginning of March, Vainio worked as a team leader at the door factory in Viitasaari. He is originally from Pihtiputaa. At the beginning of March, he resigned from the door factory, sold away all his property in Finland and bought a plane ticket to Poland. From there he continued by land to Ukraine.

He digs out a couple of thinner stacks of paper with text in both Ukrainian and English. It is an agreement that all foreign volunteers have made with Ukraine.

'Who are these Finnish fighters more closely?'

They�re not from one tree, but certain things seem to unite at least some of them. They are more doers than readers. Going to school seems to leave a bad taste for many, but hard work was not shunned. There was construction work, factory and asphalt work. Vainio was skiing at the Finnish Championship level as a teenager. Some seem unsure of what their place should be, and many may still be looking for it.

I think that is being done here in Ukraine as well. Looking for meaning.

�I wasn�t happy with my own civilian life, I was looking for more meaningful content in everyday life,� Huhtala says.

�I saw this as an opportunity for myself. It was also an opportunity to help people who need help. Someone can protest against the war in the street, another can wear a blue-yellow dress. This is my way of helping. �

They are quite silent about politics, but many thoughts suggest that the gang has a lot of nationalism, conservative values, a traditional dude culture, and the ethos of self-reliance. Huhtala has a big tattoo around his neck that reads Hail to the King. It's a song by Avenged Sevenfold, but it has a different meaning for Huhtala.

�I have thought that everyone is the king of their own life. It is a tribute to myself. �

Everyday life in Finland has been, in some ways, inadequate for those interviewed.

�I'm even a little anxious to return to civilian life. Although sometimes it has been anxious to see the stupidity of unprofessional forces, �says Vainio.

In Huhtala's opinion, Finland has "a hell of a great history, but a really lovely future". It is reportedly due to the fact that today's Finns grow up in a bubble and do not face the real world.

"The world is a 90 percent ugly place in hell, but people only see the ten percent."

Earlier in the day, Finland's state leadership said that Finland was applying for NATO membership. It does not arouse in the Finnish group much rejoicing. Some of the crew have a neutral attitude towards NATO membership, but some oppose it because they do not think Finland needs it.

Topi Huhtala believes that with the Russian offensive army he saw in Ukraine, the Finnish Defense Forces would succeed. Easily, he adds.

The Russian forces as a whole have not impressed the Finns, but they remind us that there are tough individual Russian special forces in Ukraine, such as the VDV, ie the renowned airborne force.

Huhtala and Vainio are still absolutely sure that Finland would not be in trouble even if Russia attacked.

�No one realizes how incredibly good Finland's defense is. If Russia attacked Finland, it would be a slaughter, �Vainio says.

'Ukrainians are mostly Orthodox, and the troops have moments of prayer on the front lines.'

Out of the Finnish people four of them have participated regularly. Rattlesnake has been one of the participants. He reminds us with the old saying that there are no atheists in the foxholes. When there are enough bangs, everyone seeks refuge in something.

Huhtala and Vainio murmur that they still have not participated in the prayers. Rattlesnake, on the other hand, also took the blessing of an Orthodox priest already at a volunteer camp. "Worked well, I'm still alive."

Rattlesnake says this war has already become a personal matter for him. So Ukraine is now his business too.
"It's quite shocking that Slavs are killing Slavs."

The Finns describe the war in Ukraine as a �total war�. For they mean that the fronts are fired with missiles, rockets, grenades and artillery. Grenade attack can take up to tens of minutes, during which hundreds of grenades are fired at a given area.

Survival is a coincidence. When a person is left under grenade or artillery concentration, the feeling is completely powerless. You can just throw yourself on the ground, close your ears with your fingers, and open your mouth so that pressure waves don�t destroy your interior.

Then one can only fear and wait to see if the grenade hits the point or not.

'In the morning, more quiet Finns come to the hotel for breakfast.'

Koistinen from Kuopio is picked up from the hospital in the afternoon. He�s in pretty good shape, but there�s a blue spot on the treatment latch on the small hole that came from the grenade shard on his cheek. Kalle, who was badly injured by the fragment, is transferred to a hospital in Lviv by road.

How about now? The war is anything but over. The vast eastern and southern regions of Ukraine are occupied by Russia. Donbas is for the Russians, as is the Crimea. People are dying every day, including civilians.

In the next few days, a few Finns will leave for Finland via Poland, either on holiday or permanently. On Monday, Rattlesnake will still think that he will leave for Finland for at least a month.

�It feels like my additional lives have been spent now,� he says.

Something has changed anyway. This war may give a new direction to his life, as many things in the head are now going to twist into new positions. War changes people.
It may not be possible to return to HK-Scan's liver sausage machines.

It has already been said in the Finnish group that after the war they would continue to work as a group. Huhtala has promised to arrange for them to take care of the safety of a cargo ship or oil rig, for example. Could do it with a gang.

Then it's Odessa. It is repeated in the dreams of Finns like a mantra. Oh, Odessa.

Huhtala says - in a light tone, of course - that he would like to set up a typical South Ostrobothnian grill in Odessa. Rattlesnake mentions that he could become a fisherman in Odessa and start a family there.

There are other plans and dreams, but they are not so much dreams in Finland, but somewhere else. Several Finns have considered taking dual Ukrainian citizenship if offered.
�Yes, I already see myself as partly Ukrainian. This has become personal, �says Huhtala.

Rattlesnake agrees. Still, there are problems with staying here.

�I have old parents who have taken this quite heavily,� says Rattlesnake.

Some of the volunteer fighters seem to be disappointed in Finland in some way. Huhtala, Vainio and Rattlesnake say that people complain about small things. Huhtala is especially annoyed by social media where people live a strange bubble life.

�I�m a real man who works a real job,� he says, and the way he says it isn�t ironic or light at all.

Huhtala never believes he will ever return to a normal life.

�Or what is normal life now,� he says.

So, what is a normal and real life? It seems that some of them think that real life is exactly what is happening on the front. The real life is where life is not a gray everyday life flying past. It makes a loud noise and feels right down to the diaphragm.

�As long as you get out of here alive,� says Rattlesnake.

Vainio already knows exactly what he will do next.

When he gets home, hopefully alive, he will apply for the French foreign legion, so as a low-income mercenary.

'On Tuesday, May 17, a group of Finns gathered in the hotel parking lot. Bags, rucksacks and other stuff are again packed in a white van to head for Kiev. '

Suddenly, they seem to have a tight schedule again. A few have decided to continue from Kiev to Finland, but most of them seem to stay. It is already quite clear to Huhtala and Vainio that they will stay. Huhtala says that he certainly wants a holiday in Finland for Midsummer, but not necessarily before.

Vainio just seems to be waiting for something to start happening again.

It turns out that the next place for the Finnish group has just been confirmed. Therefore, they now have a sudden departure to Kiev.

Huhtala refuses to tell in more detail, but it is an intelligence mission. It may be that it is in the north, in the direction of the Kharkiv front, as two Finns have traveled there to see a possible deployment location.

Admittedly, it may be elsewhere. There are also fronts in the east in the direction of Donbas and in the south on the northern shores of the Black Sea.
But what will Rattlesnake do?

He has repeatedly said he'll leave for Finland for at least a month. Can�t stay, the heavy grenade attack still feels heavy. Gotta see parents and friends. I have to breathe. Calm down. Then I can see if there is a reason to go back.

The last backpacks of Finns are lifted into the car. Tobacco is burned out.
Rattlesnake stands in the parking looks pensive and says �now it�s fifty � fifty�.

What is fifty to fifty?

"Whether or not I leave."

The day before, it was still 80�20 for Rattlesnake to return to Finland. But now he is no longer sure. What has now been offered to them is apparently something attractive.

On Wednesday, Rattlesnake will send a message from Kiev. He says he made the decision.

He will return to Finland. For now.

# ? May 23, 2022 20:05

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Keisari posted:

Do we have reason to believe Turkey's army is much better than Russia's?

Wrong question. You should be asking if we have any reason to believe Turkey's army is anywhere as bad as Russia's.

# ? May 23, 2022 20:05

aphid_licker: Jan 7, 2009

Iirc the Turks tended to come off worse for wear whenever they bumped directly into the Russians in Syria, but it was some p light skirmishing mostly.

# ? May 23, 2022 20:11

BIG FLUFFY DOG: Feb 16, 2011; On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

I too �clearly do not keep my candle under a stable�

# ? May 23, 2022 20:12

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

Cicero posted:

And there's a more recent one with at least 13,000 built so far, so I'm not sure what they're talking about : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Light_Tactical_Vehicle

Does this mean we have a shitton of old MRAP's sitting around we could give Ukraine?

The police probably got all those old ones.

# ? May 23, 2022 20:17

Ikasuhito: Sep 29, 2013; Haram as Fuck.

FishBulbia posted:

YPG are more American allies of convenience than Russian lackeys

I meant Assad.

# ? May 23, 2022 20:25

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Wrong question. You should be asking if we have any reason to believe Turkey's army is anywhere as bad as Russia's.

Russia's presence in syria has been largely via airstrikes for a while now. That said, IRGC and Hezbollah are both capable of making things a huge pain in the rear end for Turkey, albeit nothing beyond 'painful speedbump' if Turkey significantly commits. Turkey is one of the bigger militaries in the world.

# ? May 23, 2022 20:42

Man Plan Canal: Jul 11, 2000; Listen to the madman

FishBulbia posted:

THey're really set on poroshenko still. Bravery does not wash away the chocolate fingerprints left all over the crime documents.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1528681775140159488?s=20&t=MevAJlO7ycxOYjdUu6r2SA

Sorry, Medvedchuk, an actual Putin stooge -- surely involved in the 2004 first round vote rigging, godfather of Putin's daughter, arrested over Crimea -- is alleging that Poroshenko, cartoonishly corrupt though he was, was a Russian stooge even though he was the beneficiary of Maidan and governed as the most anti-Russian president the country has ever had? The entirety of the country's make-friends-with-Russia vote went to either Medvedchuk or Zelensky against Poroshenko in the 2019 election. I can't actually follow what the allegation here is and whether or not it's credible, but by god could someone shoot the messenger regardless?

# ? May 23, 2022 20:52

KitConstantine: Jan 11, 2013

Grab bag

These helicopters don't look combat ready but I'm not an expert
https://twitter.com/vcdgf555/status/1528822678722707456?s=20&t=zRmYjCvG7Nlg7-LMhqDz2w
Thread + article on 11 officers that refused to fight
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1528820120256229377?s=20&t=zRmYjCvG7Nlg7-LMhqDz2w
:wtf:

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1528820123213221888?s=20&t=zRmYjCvG7Nlg7-LMhqDz2w
Many more gifts coming
https://twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1528815247779319809?s=20&t=zRmYjCvG7Nlg7-LMhqDz2w
Russian ammo dump went boom last week - apparently it was a mink farm owned by a Polish guy. He was happy the russians got wrecked there bc they weren't very nice when they took it over
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1528798477207191552?s=20&t=zRmYjCvG7Nlg7-LMhqDz2w

# ? May 23, 2022 20:54

Zhanism: Apr 1, 2005; Death by Zhanism. So Judged.

KitConstantine posted:

Russian ammo dump went boom last week - apparently it was a mink farm owned by a Polish guy. He was happy the russians got wrecked there bc they weren't very nice when they took it over
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1528798477207191552?s=20&t=zRmYjCvG7Nlg7-LMhqDz2w

What happened to the poor minks?

# ? May 23, 2022 21:46

Zudgemud: Mar 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Zhanism posted:

What happened to the poor minks?

Most probably ended their suffering somewhat prematurely while a good amount of them broke free to murder all local wildlife and then starve to death. So business as usual for a mink farm really.

# ? May 23, 2022 21:56

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

KitConstantine posted:

These helicopters don't look combat ready but I'm not an expert
https://twitter.com/vcdgf555/status/1528822678722707456?s=20&t=zRmYjCvG7Nlg7-LMhqDz2w

Apparently belonged to Ukraine and taken as loot. Presumably the rotor blades are coming on a separate truck or maybe sent through postal system like all those washing machines.

While the Mi-2 itself is old school 1960's tech, these might be heavily upgraded Ukrainian models though it beats me if they really are.

quote:

Mi-2MSB-V or MSB-2MO
Modernized by Motor Sich for Ukrainian Air Force.,[5] Original engine replaced with AI-450M 465 hp (347 kW) engine, armed with rocket and machine gun pods, IR-jamming system and flares dispenser for defence against MANPADS.[6]

# ? May 23, 2022 21:56

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

https://twitter.com/christopherjm/status/1528769229025058818

# ? May 23, 2022 22:06

Charlotte Hornets: Dec 30, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

Yeah, Lyman is hosed. They'll probably withdraw south behind the river if they haven't done so yet

# ? May 23, 2022 22:15

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

Failed Imagineer posted:

More lucid than the big guy's been in a minute - or maybe it's the contradistinction between his rambling oratory and his much more focused writings

Zizek is usually quite lucid, but you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise if you're watching him speak on video. He's certainly got some tics.

# ? May 23, 2022 22:29

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Vox Nihili posted:

Zizek is usually quite lucid, but you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise if you're watching him speak on video. He's certainly got some tics.

It's not even the tics really, his individual sentence fragments are good but he goes off on incredible tangents that never resolve, or spends 8 minutes telling a dirty joke that barely translates from Slovenian. The guys very entertaining but not a stunning orator most of the time

# ? May 23, 2022 22:54

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

Failed Imagineer posted:

It's not even the tics really, his individual sentence fragments are good but he goes off on incredible tangents that never resolve, or spends 8 minutes telling a dirty joke that barely translates from Slovenian. The guys very entertaining but not a stunning orator most of the time

That's like going to a tarkovsky movie and complaining about it being slow

# ? May 23, 2022 22:57

Back Hack: Jan 17, 2010

Ynglaur posted:

Well, apparently Russia already owns Italy's politicians' courage...

Edit:
All this talk of technicals reminds me of something I've thought for 20 years: Western armies really lack armored cars. We tend to either go unarmored and wheeled, or very heavy. Strykers and the like are the lightest we seem to go. The US military police have one, but that's about it. The utility of something that has a lot of tactical mobility, good firepower against light infantry, and enough armor to survive nearby mortar shells is very high. I don't know why we don't keep more in inventories, especially with things like CROWS systems able to make them usable by small crews.

I have no idea what the hell you�re talking about, we more MRAPs than we know what to with.

# ? May 23, 2022 23:25

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

looks like liman got loving annihilated today https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/eo-br...LSE-COLOR-URBAN

# ? May 23, 2022 23:28

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Charlotte Hornets posted:

Yeah, Lyman is hosed. They'll probably withdraw south behind the river if they haven't done so yet

FishBulbia posted:

looks like liman got loving annihilated today https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/eo-br...LSE-COLOR-URBAN

As they were TOS-ing it, the plan probably is to raze it, simply put. Considering that official RF MoD stance took 2 months to change from �Luhansk 93% free� to �Luhansk 95% free�, hardly the greatest of surprises.

# ? May 23, 2022 23:34

golden bubble: Jun 3, 2011; yospos

https://twitter.com/mdmitri91/status/1528697793476546563

# ? May 24, 2022 00:30

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# ? May 23, 2024 13:12

Slugworth: Feb 18, 2001; If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!

BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

I too “clearly do not keep my candle under a stable”

It's so good to finally be able to put into words how we all feel about you.

# ? May 24, 2022 00:45

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > READ OP! War in Ukraine: a distressed blender making too many margaritas at once

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