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DarkCrawler's right on this one, the goal of a bunch of businessmen mad about taxes who were pro-slavery and believed only white male landowners deserved a vote was not a representative democracy and we've not managed to twist the framework they left behind into one.
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May 23, 2022 22:06
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The standard definition of a democracy doesn't include universal suffrage. I would say governments which do are more democratic, but it isn't a requirement. Russia is also definitionally a democracy, despite its problems, and in specific it can be referred to as a "managed" democracy, where there are elections but the state is unresponsive to their results. The "representative" part of a representative democracy also does not require representatives to be demographically similar to those they represent, to fight for their interests, or to pursue the policies their constituents want, though these things would of course be preferable. With that in mind, if you are criticizing problems with the United States' democracy, then please just make the criticisms rather than arguing about definitions. Koos Group fucked around with this message at 22:41 on May 23, 2022 |
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May 23, 2022 22:29
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Koos makes a good point
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May 23, 2022 22:36
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Yeah that's a fair point - and I admit it just galls me personally to have the US touted as a bastion of "freedom" while other countries are labeled [insert derogatory term used by liberal academics to denigrate socialist policies]. The US has been coasting on fumes from our wealth for decades, and offers very little in terms of rights and privileges that actually create measurable happiness. (Turns out being wealthy is easy when you steal a continent and murder its inhabitants)
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May 23, 2022 23:01
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People are loving On Fire Mad/Sad/Beaten right now and all of them are blaming our government, right or wrong. I don't think they're entirely wrong but I can promise you that they will remember the Biden Presidency and, to a person, hang most or ALL of this poo poo on him. It's being openly and aggressively brought up everywhere I go. People are vocally blaming our current government for the poo poo they're having to live through everywhere I go and they will remember it come voting time. I know it's just my little anecdotal corner of the world but the sense of defeat, anger and who to blame for it all is absolutely palpable and real. I don't see any other way this doesn't turn into a "socialism sucks!" referendum on "far left wing radical politics", even though Biden is neither of these things and never has been, along with a hard (VERY HARD) swing back to the right quite soon.
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May 23, 2022 23:24
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BiggerBoat posted:People are loving On Fire Mad/Sad/Beaten right now and all of them are blaming our government, right or wrong. Tactically or what is probably going to happen? Because tactically I don't think it's that hard if you have some foresight and low ego to admit mistakes were made and you need to pivot. Republicans are still pretty disorganized and have mostly let the Democrats make mistakes without being too on the offensive. Neither party has really become aggressive and gone on the offensive about fixing the pain people are feeling. The Democrats could step in first and capture people who would otherwise fall to right wing framing once served up.
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May 23, 2022 23:37
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If only there were a third way--no, not that one. Slides from the latest CBS News/YouGov poll:    Klain's being mocked on twitter for pointing out that Biden is above water on handling covid + jobs but he's correct; those are the only two issues on which his approvals have a (slight) majority, according to this poll.
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May 23, 2022 23:41
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Gumball Gumption posted:The Democrats could step in first and capture people who would otherwise fall to right wing framing once served up. And this is a good point. The Democrats shouldn’t let goddamn fascist Stephen Miller be the place something like this “What a profoundly offensive & ignorant statement. There are countless reasons why breastfeeding is not an option for many mothers—too many to get into here. And if you’ve been using formula you can’t just flip a switch. Not to mention millions of babies with milk/food allergies… .” comes from. It is only a prolonged mishandling and failure to empathize that gives the right wing these opportunities.
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May 24, 2022 00:07
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cat botherer posted:I really don't understand this conservative hard-on for executing/imprisoning the wrongfully accused. Just one of those situations where I can't put myself in their place well enough to understand their motivations. Is it really just to avoid making the justice system look weak? my sense is that they buy into the common police procedural/cop movie refrain "all these bureaucratic rules and regulations are keeping the cops from getting the bad guys". the overwhelming majority of criminals are guilty, and at the end of the day they're comfortable with some innocents being unjustly punished if it means more of the guilty get what's coming to them (and how innocent can someone truly be if they're accused of a crime?). this is made easier for them to rationalize by the racial and class make-up of those who tended to be arrested and provided an incompetent attorney
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May 24, 2022 01:08
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BiggerBoat posted:People are loving On Fire Mad/Sad/Beaten right now and all of them are blaming our government, right or wrong. Abner Assington fucked around with this message at 03:11 on May 24, 2022 |
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May 24, 2022 03:07
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:my sense is that they buy into the common police procedural/cop movie refrain "all these bureaucratic rules and regulations are keeping the cops from getting the bad guys". the overwhelming majority of criminals are guilty, and at the end of the day they're comfortable with some innocents being unjustly punished if it means more of the guilty get what's coming to them (and how innocent can someone truly be if they're accused of a crime?). this is made easier for them to rationalize by the racial and class make-up of those who tended to be arrested and provided an incompetent attorney Crime fiction/action stuff has been absolute brain poison there on top of other things. A while back I watched some old Chuck Norris movies for the first time since I was a kid. Lone Wolf McQuade and Missing in Action. The first is so deeply stereotypical 'Badass cop is pure hero and would save us all if "laws" and "government" weren't holding him back.' The second was based on an early Rambo screen treatment and is full on POW/MIA conspiracy bullshit where those evil Vietnamese are still holding a bunch of our boys prisoner for fun and the hippie cowards who made us give up when we were winning are hiding it. On a cartoony action movie level they're dumb fun, but the propaganda to them is pure rot.
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May 24, 2022 03:40
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Killer robot posted:Crime fiction/action stuff has been absolute brain poison there on top of other things. A while back I watched some old Chuck Norris movies for the first time since I was a kid. Lone Wolf McQuade and Missing in Action. The first is so deeply stereotypical 'Badass cop is pure hero and would save us all if "laws" and "government" weren't holding him back.' The second was based on an early Rambo screen treatment and is full on POW/MIA conspiracy bullshit where those evil Vietnamese are still holding a bunch of our boys prisoner for fun and the hippie cowards who made us give up when we were winning are hiding it. On a cartoony action movie level they're dumb fun, but the propaganda to them is pure rot. Yeah, don't forget that Antonin Scalia defended our use of torture because "it helped Jack Bauer from 24 save Los Angeles from terrorists". https://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/06/scalia-and-torture/227548/
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May 24, 2022 05:15
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volts5000 posted:Yeah, don't forget that Antonin Scalia defended our use of torture because "it helped Jack Bauer from 24 save Los Angeles from terrorists". every time i remember this i die a little bit more inside
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May 24, 2022 05:44
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Democrats need more of this bullshit if they want to win things. Embrace the bullshit. https://twitter.com/FrankMikeDavis1/status/1528888329600741379
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May 24, 2022 05:46
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In the Republican Senate primary in PA, McCormick could end up pulling ahead if they count the mail-in ballots that were signed and postmarked on time, but not dated by the voter. The state Republican party, who generally preferred McCormick over Oz, is instead kneecapping him on this issue and suing to prevent it from happening because "counting mail-in ballots is how they stole it from Trump" and they had sued to overturn PA's election results in 2020. So, in order to keep consistent, they have to kneecap their preferred candidate and sacrifice him to maintain the narrative. These are all 100% legally cast votes from Republican primary voters who just didn't mark the date on the inside of the ballot (but, the date was marked by USPS and postmarked on receipt). So, they are trying to throw out their own voters votes to swing an election away from the candidate they support to maintain the logic from their previous lawsuit that mail-in ballots needed to be tossed for any reason possible or else they were fraudulent. https://twitter.com/PAGOP/status/1528897849072750592 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 14:07 on May 24, 2022 |
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May 24, 2022 13:59
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Good news, we might not suffer the full effects of a compromised Supreme Court because we could be too busy shooting at each other to notice. https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1528415999011303425?s=20&t=La9YBfuuvLZRAu8dLfLEqg
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May 24, 2022 14:18
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Bishyaler posted:Good news, we might not suffer the full effects of a compromised Supreme Court because we could be too busy shooting at each other to notice. Is this conservative twitter but they replaced the word "Tweet" with "Truth"?
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May 24, 2022 14:27
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Isn't that the one that had a massive data leak? (I know, that barely narrows it down).
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May 24, 2022 14:30
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Kaiju Cage Match posted:Isn't that the one that had a massive data leak? not yet AFAICT, this is the one with the waiting list, the one that Trump is a contractually obligated to post exclusively on for like 6 hours before he can share that post anywhere else. Source: Liz Franczak on the TrueAnon podcast.
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May 24, 2022 14:33
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RBA Starblade posted:Is this conservative twitter but they replaced the word "Tweet" with "Truth"? Yes.
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May 24, 2022 14:36
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There's several conservative Twitters. Truth Social = Twitter, but replaces "Tweets" with "Truths" Gab = Twitter, but replaces "Tweets" with "Gabs" Parler = Twitter, but replaces "Tweets" with "Posts" GETTR = Twitter, but replaces "Tweets" with "Updates" (this one even got in trouble initially for just straight up copying Twitter's API and just changing "Tweets," but otherwise it looked identical to Twitter)
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May 24, 2022 14:42
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Truth Social also costs money
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May 24, 2022 14:51
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There’s also a hierarchy of how insanely racist and otherwise crazy you’re allowed to be, with Gab being the craziest, Parler next, and Truth being the most moderated. Gettr I have no idea about.
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May 24, 2022 14:55
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I think this is a pretty likely scenario for our current course https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/1529101214868283394 some federal voting laws would be great right now
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May 24, 2022 15:08
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I think this is a pretty likely scenario for our current course Safe to assume we won’t get them. So start having a plan for you and yours, because the Dems do not have one.
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May 24, 2022 15:12
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selec posted:Safe to assume we won’t get them. So start having a plan for you and yours, because the Dems do not have one. It's the Wisconsin model, but for every state. Red state legislators will essentially be able to lock themselves in even with a significant minority. blue states of course will not do anything like that and erode their power even further. This could be fixed with federal voting legislation, but Joe Manchin says no so we all have to fall into tyranny. sorry!
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May 24, 2022 15:16
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Gumball Gumption posted:Tactically or what is probably going to happen? Because tactically I don't think it's that hard if you have some foresight and low ego to admit mistakes were made and you need to pivot. Republicans are still pretty disorganized and have mostly let the Democrats make mistakes without being too on the offensive. Neither party has really become aggressive and gone on the offensive about fixing the pain people are feeling. The Democrats could step in first and capture people who would otherwise fall to right wing framing once served up. They're about to destroy Roe v Wade and have made voting harder in basically every state. They're making it illegal for teachers to say "gay" or teach the United States' history and legacy of systematic racism. They're packing courts. Q-Anon and Big Lie believers are increasing in numbers in the halls of government. They stormed the U.S. Capitol. They and their RWM propaganda arm are railing relentlessly against Biden and his far left radical socialist policies every day, setting the table for the glorious return of Dear Leader Trump in what will be seen as the failure and outright rejection of "liberal" policies even though Biden is not a leftist/liberal. He's just an abject failure or a president and an incompetent fool. Trump's smug, self aggrandizing bullshit when he wins in 2024 is going to be insufferable. Republicans are just going to with "drill baby drill" and "America First" rhetoric, dismantle all these "job destroying regulations", more cops and cut your bosses taxes. Doesn't matter if it works. People think it will and, right now, it's tempting to believe there's no where else to go but up so any uptick will be seen as progress. Republicans don't have to do much to lay blame or rip down the Democrats, who seem to be doing a fine job of that all on their own and can't get out of their own loving way on the rare occasions they try to do loving anything. Democratic voters hate this poo poo right now. Even if things get slightly better after the mid terms, most people are going to point to the (inevitable) red wave/slaughter that's coming in November and attribute it to that. If things get worse, they'll blame Biden.
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May 24, 2022 15:21
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:It's the Wisconsin model, but for every state. Red state legislators will essentially be able to lock themselves in even with a significant minority. blue states of course will not do anything like that and erode their power even further. This could be fixed with federal voting legislation, but Joe Manchin says no so we all have to fall into tyranny. sorry! There are far more Democrats than Manchin who oppose ending the filibuster. Regardless, its happening, and political analysts were sounding the alarm about it happening when Biden started his term. If the party cared about preventing a permanent GOP majority it stands to reason that this should've been priority #1 for Biden's entire administration. Ultimately as long as the obstructionists are allowed to wear a D next to their name, the whole party is complicit in what's happening. Bishyaler fucked around with this message at 15:37 on May 24, 2022 |
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May 24, 2022 15:27
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It's disheartening, but not unsurprising that the multimillionaire Ds in the House and the many times over multimillionaire Ds in the Senate are just kind of shrugging at the death of democracy. But yes, let's (not anybody in this thread) keep blaming Bernie Bros.
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May 24, 2022 15:32
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BiggerBoat posted:t's tempting to believe there's no where else to go but up so any uptick will be seen as progress. there might be an uptick in the stock market because it is divorced from reality. But things can get way worse. We can sink way lower.
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May 24, 2022 16:05
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Cranappleberry posted:there might be an uptick in the stock market because it is divorced from reality. But things can get way worse. We can sink way lower. Hell, the stock market has been having a rough year so far but I can totally believe that if the dems get beaten bad enough in the midterms the narrative will be that the republicans are now able to put an end to Biden's RADICAL LEFT AGENDA and then the market booms upward again. For people who aren't making loads of money that way though, yeah, I can't see it getting better anytime soon!
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May 24, 2022 16:06
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By opposing voting rights legislation at the federal level, is Manchin not sealing his own electoral fate? I mean, unless he changes his party affiliation.
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May 24, 2022 16:08
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The tweet in question is talking about the Independent State Legislature Doctrine, which is a constitutional issue. A federal voting rights bill wouldn't matter under that scenario and you'd need a constitutional amendment. That idea is too crazy for the current court, but who knows? Maybe they change their minds or they get another two extremely crazy people on the bench. If they did, then it would actually help Democrats, if they decide to go full gerrymander in California, New York, etc. Most of the independent redistricting committees are in blue states. But, some purple states and Ohio could get worse. https://twitter.com/Wertwhile/status/1529098207808131072 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:14 on May 24, 2022 |
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May 24, 2022 16:10
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The tweet in question is talking about the Independent State Legislature Doctrine, which is a constitutional issue. A federal voting rights bill wouldn't matter under that scenario and you'd need a constitutional amendment. why are you assuming it is too crazy?
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May 24, 2022 16:14
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:why are you assuming it is too crazy? Several of the conservatives have ruled against it and spoken out against it. But, that is why I said "Who knows? They might change their mind." I wouldn't put it past them, but several of them - Roberts and Gorsuch especially - love states' rights and have been very critical about electoral questions going to the courts. They basically just want every state to be allowed to do whatever it wants in regards to elections as long as they don't explicitly bring back poll taxes or literacy tests.
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May 24, 2022 16:20
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Cranappleberry posted:there might be an uptick in the stock market because it is divorced from reality. But things can get way worse. We can sink way lower. Oh, don't get me wrong. I think that's where we're headed. I just meant that if gas prices drop back down under 4 bucks or whatever that most people are going to associate that with any Republican wins, depending on the timing. I long ago stopped looking at the stock market as a measure of much of anything, let alone the health of the economy, but you kind of have to since most people's retirement funds are tied to it.
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May 24, 2022 16:20
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Kurt Schrader just lost his primary. It was his 6th term and not his first primary, but he finally pissed off enough voters to lose a primary. https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1529119246516617216
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May 24, 2022 16:23
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Total Party Kill posted:By opposing voting rights legislation at the federal level, is Manchin not sealing his own electoral fate? He'll be 76 when he's up for re-election. I know in Senate terms that means he's a spring chicken, but he's obscenely wealthy and coming off years of being the most powerful man in politics. He can happily retire to a life well lived to do full time whatever depraved debauchery he's already been doing for his entire life.
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May 24, 2022 16:35
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Kurt Schrader just lost his primary. He also had his district significantly re-drawn--though I don't know that he would have done much better if the old OR-5 boundaries had stayed the same. He basically exchanged the Salem area (which became the core of the new OR-6) for some of the more developed parts of Central Oregon. Aegis fucked around with this message at 17:26 on May 24, 2022 |
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May 24, 2022 17:23
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https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1528873446255599617I'm sure this tweet has already been discussed, but it's wild to me that we finally found the line by which even the New York Times can't just call it "racially charged" in a headline
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May 24, 2022 17:28
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