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Professor Beetus posted:"Common sense legislation" is politician speak for "gently caress all." "I will do absolutely anything except for the thing that would work."
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May 25, 2022 00:48
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CommieGIR posted:What IS Manchin serious about other than undermining Dem legislation and defending Coal barons? Seriously does anybody ever call him out on this constant use of vague milquetoast "eh maybe I'd kinda do something... one day.. .maybe... but ya know this isn't the day. I'll know it if I see it." Like he's just a loving king waiting to be feted or legislation brought to his feet. Does anybody ever say "hey motherfucker it's your JOB to try to come up with the solution... put an idea forward... anything at all!"
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May 25, 2022 00:49
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BonoMan posted:Seriously does anybody ever call him out on this constant use of vague milquetoast "eh maybe I'd kinda do something... one day.. .maybe... but ya know this isn't the day. I'll know it if I see it." No, because if they called him out, it would give up the game they're all playing as well.
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May 25, 2022 00:50
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Bel Shazar posted:I kinda gave up on the present a while ago. Now i more look for ways to help whoever might have a good idea now and be a good leftist example to kids. Yeah, my last hope for a political sea change in this country during my lifetime died when Dems ratfucked Sanders. The murder weapon was shifting the discourse over the last decade from "The ACA is the first step toward single-payer" to "It'll never ever happen, or if it does it'll be several decades from now." But I see younger relations & friends' kids (and even younger goons!), and I'm heartened that someday things will change, even if I'm not around to see it, because I know they'll push for change, and already have furthered things along.
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May 25, 2022 00:59
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https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1529237169528659968?s=20&t=uVxAyd9REqyzM-Q5HKpEkQ Kind of sums it up.
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May 25, 2022 00:59
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It's more possible than it has been in decades simply because the gun industry is fragmented to all hell and the NRA appears to be in the process of becoming a smoking crater.Professor Beetus posted:"Common sense legislation" is politician speak for "gently caress all." "Commonsense legislation" usually means an existing set of model bill language provisions. With Manchin, we have a pretty good sense of where the consensus lies.
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May 25, 2022 01:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The mass shootings and school shootings are terrible, but we also overlook the fact that about 46,000 people die from guns a year in the U.S. and that 117,168 people are shot on average in the U.S. Who is "we" that you are referencing? Vvvvvv Oh, no, doomposting!* *accurately describing the state of our country The Sean fucked around with this message at 01:13 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 01:08
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great i see the death toll is now up to 18 i absooutely loving hate this country and need to completely dewire from news for a while, gently caress this
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May 25, 2022 01:10
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The Sean posted:Who is "we" that you are referencing? Jake, Stephanie, and I.
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May 25, 2022 01:13
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Bel Shazar posted:"I will do absolutely anything except for the thing that would work." Common Sense has been the biggest loving Political trope, none of these morons have anything resembling common sense, they just use it as a way to handwave responsibility.
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May 25, 2022 01:19
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I guess it was more of a lingering/subconscious reason as to why I'm never having children—the conscious reasons being general career instability+the cost of raising them, climate change, and so forth—but yeah, I also don't want to have to ever worry about them getting shot in this absolutely loving broken society, too.
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May 25, 2022 01:21
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Bishyaler posted:Its going to be an extremely unpopular position today but I'll be the first to say that empowering the government to disarm people is still a bad idea when your government is undergoing a soft coup by fascists. How many [literal] lives is this stance worth to you? Or unlimited, as long as you think there’s a looming threat? Kalit fucked around with this message at 01:32 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 01:28
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Cueller and Cisneros are both blowing up turnout and margins in their base areas (both of them are winning each with 80+% of the vote and large turnout). Going to end up really close, but both of them managed to turn out a bunch of people. Cueller's abortion and "possible criminal investigation" stances were unpopular in the district, but Cisneros' immigration position was very unpopular as well and Cueller made the entire race about that. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 01:35 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 01:30
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CommieGIR posted:Common Sense has been the biggest loving Political trope, none of these morons have anything resembling common sense, they just use it as a way to handwave responsibility. I really like the episode of the Citations Needed podcast that focused on the notion of "common sense" in politics. From their episode description, which is a nice summation: quote:It's a common appeal: a political issue—whether health-insurance, immigration, foreign policy, or gun violence—reaches a real or perceived extreme, and, in reaction, media pundits and political figures claim the most appropriate response must be ostensibly neutral, reasonable "common sense" reforms.
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May 25, 2022 01:30
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Texas police say that the school shooter was actually shot twice before he went into the school, but was wearing body armor and returned fire to the police who weren't. Two "good guys with guns" didn't stop the "bad guy with a gun." https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1529255082914725888
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May 25, 2022 01:33
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https://www.nrapvf.org/emails/2018/texas/henry-cuellar-tx-28-general-election-email/quote:Dear Texas NRA Member:
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May 25, 2022 01:34
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Kalit posted:How many [literal] lives is this stance worth to you? I've of two minds of this. On the one hand the fascist take over is already halfway happening and 100% going to happen. on the other hand, good guy with a gun is bullshit and when it gets to outright fighting a lot of the "leftist armed types" are going to be the first killed, and won't do any good . You won't be able to unarm this country, but you could do a bunch of things that won't happen. I mean, how many kids died in this country of covid this week? I'm guessing the number is higher than 18. We as a society really don't give a poo poo about anyone other than the preverbal "me". There are laws we could pass that would help reduce violence but we never, ever will.
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May 25, 2022 01:35
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May 25, 2022 01:37
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LionArcher posted:I've of two minds of this. On the one hand the fascist take over is already halfway happening and 100% going to happen. on the other hand, good guy with a gun is bullshit and when it gets to outright fighting a lot of the "leftist armed types" are going to be the first killed, and won't do any good . You won't be able to unarm this country, but you could do a bunch of things that won't happen. I mean, how many kids died in this country of covid this week? I'm guessing the number is higher than 18. We as a society really don't give a poo poo about anyone other than the preverbal "me". There are laws we could pass that would help reduce violence but we never, ever will. To be perfectly clear, when I asked that question, I’m talking about all gun deaths. Not just high profile mass shootings. But you’re right, as much as I want to disarm everyone, it would probably end with pro 2A assholes killing everyone in sight. But I think there’s an in between, e.g. Switzerland
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May 25, 2022 01:39
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Given the culture and amount of guns in America, climate change and its associated collapse will likely render worthless any actual federal gun controls (were they to happen of course) before we'd see the benefit, so I don't have any energy or faith to give to that legislative thrust. That said, the leftist argument of not taking away guns doesn't hit hard when we are so predictably, reliably, and (as of now) effectively captured by our circumstances surrounding and trajectory. If we can't get people to hold our views or vote on them, those guns aren't going to be put to "good" use anyway. Plus we can't even organize to strike, boycott, and riot... tactics that hurt "the system" (our real enemy) far more effectively than bullets anyway. Under current powers and likely future conditions, though, any gun control passed is likely just used to surpress and kill leftists/minorities, so it's still no longer a priority due to the doomed insanity of what we've built. There's a link to be drawn between the state of our world, the "wrongness", and the "mental illness" "people kill people" things (though most people making that argument are not making it from a good place).
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May 25, 2022 01:43
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Kalit posted:To be perfectly clear, when I asked that question, I’m talking about all gun deaths. Not just high profile mass shootings. Oh for sure. There's a ton of things we could do, but we won't. It does make me think I should probably invest in body armor though.
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May 25, 2022 01:44
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Biden really loves his scripture. And he looks absolutely haunted.
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May 25, 2022 01:49
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Yeah Biden is very sad, I gotta hand it to him. He was so distraught he refused to take questions.
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May 25, 2022 01:49
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LionArcher posted:Oh for sure. There's a ton of things we could do, but we won't. It does make me think I should probably invest in body armor though. A decent set of top to bottom III+ pads plus chest and thigh IV plates is ~ 2k
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May 25, 2022 01:52
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I like Biden's speech. We need to make "there are other countries with guns and mentally ill people and this doesn't happen there" the main talking point.
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May 25, 2022 01:53
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Texas police say that the school shooter was actually shot twice before he went into the school, but was wearing body armor and returned fire to the police who weren't. We obviously need more cops with more lethal guns.
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May 25, 2022 01:54
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I remember during the early years of Obama's administration his commentary on the school shootings was always really sad but by the later years of his admin he was still sad but just resigned to it after multiple failed attempts to get any gun control legislation passed through Congress. This will no doubt happen to Biden too.
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May 25, 2022 01:55
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:I like Biden's speech. We need to make "there are other countries with guns and mentally ill people and this doesn't happen there" the main talking point. Talking point for who? Nothing is going to get done. Tiny kids are getting mowed down and NOBODY ON THE RIGHT loving GIVES A gently caress. They aren't suddenly going to go "oh... yeah... actually there may be a path!" Because they have demonstrated over and over they aren't even interested in any paths. They don't want *anything* but total 2A freedom and to have as many guns as they want and gently caress you to literally anything else. There's nobody on the fence about this issue that just needs the right words for it to click. There's just total loving stagnation in the congress that is preventing any movement.
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May 25, 2022 01:55
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BonoMan posted:Talking point for who? Nothing is going to get done. Tiny kids are getting mowed down and NOBODY ON THE RIGHT loving GIVES A gently caress. They aren't suddenly going to go "oh... yeah... actually there may be a path!" Because they have demonstrated over and over they aren't even interested in any paths. They don't want *anything* but total 2A freedom and to have as many guns as they want and gently caress you to literally anything else. It's not that they don't give a gently caress, it's that they benefit when it happens. It lets them rile up their base about how the government is coming for their guns because it puts gun control back into the national conversation, so they're literally incentivized to make sure as many shootings happen as possible. Mass shootings also directly result in higher gun sales https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7369030/ So it's not that they don't care, it's that they benefit politically from more shootings happening
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May 25, 2022 01:59
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Bishyaler posted:Its going to be an extremely unpopular position today but I'll be the first to say that empowering the government to disarm people is still a bad idea when your government is undergoing a soft coup by fascists. This is an unpopular position because it makes no sense. If there is going to be a situation where this is going to happen then it is going to happen no matter what laws are on the books. Fascism doesn't have to play by fair rules. If they come for your Guns they are going to do it no matter what they do. That shouldn't actually limit attempts to loving curtail the horrifying gun violence in this country.
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May 25, 2022 02:02
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ImpAtom posted:This is an unpopular position because it makes no sense. The "we can't get rid of the filibuster, or Republicans will be able to pass anything they want!" of gun control
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May 25, 2022 02:03
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Im drunk as poo poo due to the news, but i hold this minute candle of hope that this time just might be different since this happened in texas. Locality matters, and there are a lot of suburban texas moms having to stare straight at real consequences for their political opinions tonight. Not saying anything will change, buts its minutely more likely in this case as opposed to the shooting occurring in NY of CA.
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May 25, 2022 02:05
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Lemming posted:It's not that they don't give a gently caress, it's that they benefit when it happens. It lets them rile up their base about how the government is coming for their guns because it puts gun control back into the national conversation, so they're literally incentivized to make sure as many shootings happen as possible. Mass shootings also directly result in higher gun sales https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7369030/ I said this earlier and it cannot be stated enough. The rising fascist movement benefits from violence, and will actively prevent any meaningful action against violence as it would improve conditions and undermine their arguments. All the things must be done in spite of that, but who the hell knows how to actually do that.
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May 25, 2022 02:06
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SpaceCadetBob posted:Im drunk as poo poo due to the news, but i hold this minute candle of hope that this time just might be different since this happened in texas. Locality matters, and there are a lot of suburban texas moms having to stare straight at real consequences for their political opinions tonight. It happened in multiple churches and we didn't care then. We won't care now.
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May 25, 2022 02:13
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Lemming posted:So it's not that they don't care, it's that they benefit politically from more shootings happening The leadership benefits. The membership doesn't care.
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May 25, 2022 02:13
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SpaceCadetBob posted:Im drunk as poo poo due to the news, but i hold this minute candle of hope that this time just might be different since this happened in texas. Locality matters, and there are a lot of suburban texas moms having to stare straight at real consequences for their political opinions tonight. https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/when-mass-shootings-lead-to-looser-gun-restrictions quote:In states with Republican-controlled legislatures, mass shootings lead to a significant increase in the number of laws that loosen gun restrictions. That’s one of several key findings in the study “The Impact of Mass Shootings on Gun Policy,” co-authored by Michael Luca, Deepak Malhotra, and Christopher Poliquin. Most likely, this will lead to loosening gun restrictions
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May 25, 2022 02:14
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I don't mind expanding background checks, but it's not an actual solution, which should be obvious just from the fact that Manchin supports it (so long as it's 100% going to fail). Almost all mass shooters got their guns legally and I have absolutely zero faith in federal level gun control advocates to do anything but leave red states to themselves in this regard because they capitulate at the least bit of resistance, which is relevant of course because I live in a blood red state. It's unfortunate that this is inevitable because we are a culture that worships and valorizes death and killing like a Cormac McCarthy novel but maybe in 2-3 more decades of incremental improvement and 4 or 5 more brady bills we'll not be in a position where we need to mentally incorporate or compartmentalize regular vigilante killing sprees! Just don't ask too much and our friends across the aisle with their now much stronger party will meet us in the middle! Lemming posted:https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/when-mass-shootings-lead-to-looser-gun-restrictions Correct, the net result of this will be looser gun restrictions. Where I live I'm on the cusp of being able to concealed carry without any permit or training and this will probably push it over the edge.
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May 25, 2022 02:16
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How many restrictions can we put on body armour? Seems like a background check for that is a good idea at least.
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May 25, 2022 02:18
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Bishyaler posted:Its going to be an extremely unpopular position today but I'll be the first to say that empowering the government to disarm people is still a bad idea when your government is undergoing a soft coup by fascists. An AR15 won't do poo poo against the US military or whatever law enforcement agency comes for you. The idea that leftists can grab a few lovely bushmasters and wage a people's war against even the county governments we have in this country is pretty laughable. For as much as assault rifles are weapons of war, they are also incredibly ineffective against hard targets unless supplemented by bigger munitions. AKs aren't costing the Russians their lives in Ukraine. Turkish drones and AT missiles are. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:How many restrictions can we put on body armour? Seems like a background check for that is a good idea at least. Background checks wouldn't have prevented this shooting or Sandy Hook. A lot of times, these shooters wouldn't fail such a check. I'm not saying it's a worthless effort, just that it really wouldn't substantively improve the status quo.
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May 25, 2022 02:18
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:An AR15 won't do poo poo against the US military or whatever law enforcement agency comes for you. The idea that leftists can grab a few lovely bushmasters and wage a people's war against even the county governments we have in this country is pretty laughable. For as much as assault rifles are weapons of war, they are also incredibly ineffective against hard targets unless supplemented by bigger munitions. Yeah but if most of the military is with you and you incite a Christian fascist takeover everyone having guns means you have pockets of resistance in your enemy's territory that are actively going around executing people from day 1. You know how many people in Cali want to murder people? A bout half the state. And having a gun means you can subjugate women in the post US world.which right wingers absolutely love as a feature of their rhetoric.
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May 25, 2022 02:20
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