|
chiasaur11 posted:There's some overlap with "Robots in Disguise", so yes. Which itself was a mediocre anime that turned out to be a sleeper hit that revived the brand
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 14:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 10:50 |
|
|
Should've put out Zeta Gundam, at least that one still looks nice
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 16:10
|
|
|
Zeta was honestly a little grim for Toonami, I get why they thought SEED would be more appealing. I dunno that you want all the mysoginy and random cruelty at the 4 pm kids come back time slot. MSG is a lot tamer in that regard, and Victory just woof could never have been run on Toonami (adult swim all the way, play up the bikini suicide squad). Gundam X would have probably played a little better than MSG just cause of the familiar animation, but it's a blah enough show I could have seen it performing about the same as MSG in the long run. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 16:20 on May 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 16:17
|
|
|
Redub it so Quattro is Zechs.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 16:18
|
|
|
so wait, the idea was to avoid misogyny and random cruelty and they aired SEED?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 16:20
|
|
|
The Notorious ZSB posted:Zeta was honestly a little grim for Toonami, I get why they thought SEED would be more appealing. I dunno that you want all the mysoginy and random cruelty at the 4 pm kids come back time slot. MSG is a lot tamer in that regard, and Victory just woof could never have been run on Toonami (adult swim all the way, play up the bikini suicide squad). Seed has people popping like balloons, the alliance microwaving their own people, and genetically motivated genocide.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 16:21
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:Seed has people popping like balloons, the alliance microwaving their own people, and genetically motivated genocide. Yeah but it's all done in a color palette that suggests Easter and rainbows. For me the gross stuff in SEED hardly lands cause it has next to 0 emotional weight behind yet another monstrous weapon. Not saying SEED isn't full of problematic stuff, but the presentation its wrapped up in makes it a lot easier for younger viewers to miss it among all the kits and transformations and pop songs imo. I never found that SEED really focused on the horror of its insanity the way Zeta lingers on the nastiness of the situation. SEED just throws more colors in your face and goes "but look the pretty boy is doing good!" I'm not saying fans of the show would make this mistake, but I can see why TV execs might. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 16:41 on May 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 16:38
|
|
|
Ramadu posted:Why did no one tell me that After War: Gundam X fuckin rules???????????????????????? Holy poo poo this is so good many people have been saying this and by many people i mean me
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 16:55
|
|
|
The Notorious ZSB posted:Zeta was honestly a little grim for Toonami, I get why they thought SEED would be more appealing. I dunno that you want all the mysoginy and random cruelty at the 4 pm kids come back time slot. Zeta was planned to air later at night on Adult Swim. When Japan did their last minute move to pushing Seed instead they of course couldn't have their new mega-hit be treated as a niche thing, so they insisted on it being broadcast to the biggest possible audience which is why it got crammed into the worst-of-both-worlds situation of airing in the latest possible timeslot that still counted as Toonami, which meant it was still on relatively late but required comical levels of censorship with those disco-guns and sound edits
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 17:32
|
|
|
War and Pieces posted:Which itself was a mediocre anime that turned out to be a sleeper hit that revived the brand Nah, Beast Wars did that, even in Japan. Then Beast Machines came out and Japan said "NO." and made a couple anime sequels to Beast Wars until they made RID, which was actually good.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 18:52
|
|
|
Unlike the Beast Wars II anime, which was lame.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 19:01
|
|
|
Chia, have you watched any more of 00? You're in the home stretch of S1 as I recall your last post on the subject.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 19:38
|
|
|
i stopped watching 00 right before they busted out trans am
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 20:37
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:Seed has people popping like balloons, the alliance microwaving their own people, and genetically motivated genocide. Admittedly as gross as that all is, it's generally happens in moments isolated in a way that would be incredibly easy to censor out, indeed that's my main frustration with Toonami never getting to finish airing SEED, that we didn't get a properly censored version of the whole series, as that's basically the only form I would be willing to rewatch SEED in, I find them that offputting and unpleasant
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 20:49
|
|
|
Fivemarks posted:Nah, Beast Wars did that, even in Japan. Then Beast Machines came out and Japan said "NO." and made a couple anime sequels to Beast Wars until they made RID, which was actually good. Beast Machines was what almost killed the brand, boomers hated the show and kids hated the toys
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 20:57
|
|
|
Anshu posted:Chia, have you watched any more of 00? You're in the home stretch of S1 as I recall your last post on the subject. Yeah, finished episode 19. (Was going to watch episode 20 yesterday, but between Kyoukai Senki being even more painful than usual and getting into a deeply stupid argument about Setsuna's skill as a pilot, I wasn't up for it) I really liked the scene with Setsuna and Lockon, despite it having so many ways it could have fallen apart (and it letting the Trinities go off to be idiots a bit longer). It managed to play on the ridiculousness of Setsuna's Gundam obsession and the more serious character development behind it, making Setsuna work as a character in a way the show often struggles with. It helps that the show got the balance right on how seriously Lockon was planning to shoot Setsuna. It's not so light that it ruins the tension, but he doesn't seem so committed that him backing down quickly harms his character. (It also plays into how he talks about the irony of him becoming a terrorist due to the terrorist attack that killed his family, and the show's recurring speeches on how God is good, and man is capable of kindness, but somehow the world is screwed up anyway) On the other hand, Nena Trinity blowing up the wedding was another example of the show's reluctance to commit to its moral ambiguity. The civilian deaths weren't caused by our heroes, or even a consequence of the parts of the plan that they rejected. It was just the result of giving a murderous psychopath a Gundam, something that already was kind of an obvious risk. Nena just decided to murder a bunch of people because the plot said that this was the time for our civilian viewpoint characters to be traumatized. It's a recurring problem, that the show wants to examine the negative consequences of Celestial Being, but in a way that doesn't make our heroes look bad. Even the really strong bits (like the attack on the Super Soldier project) feel the need to have a scene of people outside the group saying that Celestial Being is still really doing good things. Thus, the Trinities aren't just "the people who do things our heroes draw the line at". They have to be puppy kickers, to cement that Our Heroes are completely righteous in rejecting them. I'm also still disappointed in the fights, although that's probably more expectations than anything. There's nice moments and details, but having heard 00 hyped up as the best TV Gundam for fights means that I'm continually going "This? Really?" instead of appreciating what there is. Definitely liking it enough to want to finish the season, even if I'm not loving it. Edit: Oh, cool. Episode 20 gives us a hard figure for the number of Mobile Suits in the AD timeline to use as a baseline. Apparently, there are between 2000 and 2200 Mobile Suits of all models in service as of the UN military being formed. Relatively limited compared to the One Year War, but still a large-ish figure. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 21:57 on May 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 21:51
|
|
|
Who was hyping up 00 for the fights. It's got like two or three good ones in the whole run
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 21:54
|
|
|
Yeah, while 00 is probably on the upper end of TV-length Gundam shows regarding watchable fights, it's not going to blow your socks off at any point. I'm curious where you heard that from. I think the only fight in 00 that I'd call extremely badass is the final big battle of 00S2; most of them are simply "this is okay" or have a couple of neat moments.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 22:32
|
|
|
The final fights of s2 are absolute bangers though.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 22:34
|
|
|
S1's final fight excepting the alvaron was pretty good if I remember right.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 22:37
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:S1's final fight excepting the alvaron was pretty good if I remember right. Pretend I posted GNXspin.gif here.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 22:40
|
|
|
Monaghan posted:The final fights of s2 are absolute bangers though. The finish to S2 of 00 makes the rest of it worth it to me, yeah it retreads some space, and kinda doesn't really know what it wants to say. However, the run the finish has a lot of fun and good bits in it, and the final fights are all really compelling to watch unfold.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 22:55
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Pretend I posted GNXspin.gif here. Yeah, that shot was why I was still skeptical about fight quality when I heard it talked about. (And I wish IBO frequently goes more low-detail in wide shots so the mech fights stay fluid, but nothing looked that bad. Also, looking things up and doing some math for other Gundams. Assuming the high end for 00, there were around 2,210 Mobile Suits active at the time of season 1. Wing apparent has 3377 Mobile Suits in the show, with an additional 500 Serpents from the film. Rounding up, we'll say there were around 4,000 suits in total. High end estimates for Zeon from Gundam Century give them 8,000 Zakus, 1,400 Doms, and 740 Gelgoogs, putting them around 10,000 Mobile Suits in the One Year War, a staggering number even compared to B Club giving the Federation 3,800 GMs and Gundam Century listing 1,200 Balls. (The Federation made less than 3,000 Jegans according to B-Club, but it was close enough to be listed under "less than 3,000" rather than "more than 2,500", so it's safe to assume Jegans outnumber Mobile Suits in total from AD). Finally, for now, PD has a low end of 600-or-so, if we assume the 40-some Mobile Suits of the Ares base were what Eugene was talking about when considering they were just half of McGillis's fleet, rather than talking about the ship counts. However, the high end, assuming that Gjallarhorn has enough Grazes to fully load its Biscoes and that Biscoe to Skipjack ratio in season 1 is consistent across the fleets, then they have somewhere closer to 3,748 suits. The high end seems unlikely (Gjallarhorn is mostly a peacetime police organization, and a pirate band with 20-some Mobile Suits is a serious force) but the low end seems far too low (Rustal's Dainslief teams had around 100 MS, so a majority of his forces being held in reserve would be suspicious as they come.) Going for a middle ground with a consistent ratios of battleships to Mobile Suits, and assuming every Seven Stars member's personal fleet is about the same size (with Rustal's fleet being twice McGillis's because he has Iok's forces under his command as well) then we get about 1,000 Grazes in active service, which, while on the small side compared to the massive fleets of the One Year War, is fairly reasonable given everything else we see in the setting. (It also means Mikazuki destroyed almost 3 percent of Gjallarhorn's entire Mobile Suit fleet by himself in the final battle.) Just interesting when trying to figure out what the most produced Mobile Suits are. (Current estimates for the leaderboards: 1) Zaku II 2) GM 1 3) Jegan 4) Leo 5) Graze)
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 23:38
|
|
|
Death army probably ranks
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 23:40
|
|
|
I think that Gjallarhorn has quite a lot of mobile suits for the simple reason that it covers a lot of space. I'd guess McGillis's force in the first major battle of the Gjallarhorn Civil War is probably a good approximation of the typical size for one of the organisation's fleets (it's basically just the Outer Earth Regulatory Joint Fleet plus a few rebels and minus a few loyalists). It's not clear exactly how many fleets they have, plus independent garrisons, but I'd place it in the low double-digits - if Mars, an actual planet, can't get a member of the Seven Stars overseeing it, then that suggests that the Gjallarhorn elite must be thinly spread across a very large organisation.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 00:06
|
|
|
Speaking of AUs: Monaghan posted:The final fights of s2 are absolute bangers though. The fact Lyle basically pulls off a handbrake turn in a Gundam using trans-am will always be hilarious to me.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 00:13
|
|
|
tsob posted:Speaking of AUs: https://twitter.com/agumon_tamer/status/1529091300665937921?s=20&t=jef6zghaEDR1Qwm-jKA9iw
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 00:41
|
|
|
I mean...I imagine Amuro would be stoked to find a giant gunpla under the tarp, if anything. He seems like one of the most obvious gunpla addicts for a lead protagonist in the franchise, alongside Kamille and maybe Flit. That's still probably the best laugh I've gotten out of the meme regardless.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 01:00
|
|
|
I like to think that mobile suits come on giant sprues before they're built and the Anaheim engineers need to use 30 foot long god hands clippers with beam edges to snip them off the runners.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 01:19
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:I think that Gjallarhorn has quite a lot of mobile suits for the simple reason that it covers a lot of space. I'd guess McGillis's force in the first major battle of the Gjallarhorn Civil War is probably a good approximation of the typical size for one of the organisation's fleets (it's basically just the Outer Earth Regulatory Joint Fleet plus a few rebels and minus a few loyalists). It's not clear exactly how many fleets they have, plus independent garrisons, but I'd place it in the low double-digits - if Mars, an actual planet, can't get a member of the Seven Stars overseeing it, then that suggests that the Gjallarhorn elite must be thinly spread across a very large organisation. Well, we know that they don't have a large force in the outer sphere. Past Mars, they don't have much of a presence at all, and Mars has less than 50 Mobile Suits assigned to its garrison. Given the manufacturing numbers we know (44 Hyakurens, 18 early production Reginlaze), I'd think multiple thousands would be an odd fit. When only the largest organizations in the solar system can threaten a compliment of ten Graze as of the start of the season, and a pirate outfit with half a dozen suits was considered a force to be reckoned with, I think just having a couple of Halfbeaks for a patrol would be considered sufficient. Of course, a guidebook could turn out to prove us both wrong, but looking at what we have, that's my best estimate.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 01:35
|
|
|
They just don't really need large numbers of MS, anyway. As you say, prior to IBO S2, basically nobody in Gjallarhorn's area of influence had mobile suits, and the ones who did had very few. Gjallarhorn could easily have what would seem like a pitifully small amount of MS spread very thinly across their territories and it would likely be more than sufficient when deployed in support of their much larger conventional forces(such as the mobile worker forces we see attacking CGS or defending Edmonton). For the very few situations where significant enemy resistance is expected, you simply pool resources from multiple branches rather than maintaining a larger force. Given how much effort it takes to mission kill a mobile suit in IBO, I seriously doubt even a substantial force of mobile workers could reasonably fight off even a squad of 2-3 Grazes before getting utterly massacred.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 02:17
|
|
|
Wasn't there something about power blocs gearing up between first and second season, too?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 02:26
|
|
|
Tekkadan at it's height appears to have had at minimum 16 mobile suits. They had at minimum 8 Shidens, minimum 4 Landman Rodis, 1 Hekija, the Barbatos, Gusion, and Flauros.
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 02:31
|
|
|
At least according to the wiki, the landmann rodi's are just the rodi frames they captured from the Brewers. I don't know if they gave a count of how many they got then. Edit Just checked, Tekkadan captured 9 Man Rodi's, scrapped 2 for their AV systems for gusion and the graze. They may have sold a couple as well. overlordbunny fucked around with this message at 02:39 on May 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 02:36
|
|
|
How long has the Graze been around? I think that would be the only way it could be one of the most produced mobile suits, but even if it has been a long time, PD mobile suits seem to have quite long lifetimes, so I doubt they would even need to be replaced that frequently.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 02:43
|
|
|
WrightOfWay posted:How long has the Graze been around? I think that would be the only way it could be one of the most produced mobile suits, but even if it has been a long time, PD mobile suits seem to have quite long lifetimes, so I doubt they would even need to be replaced that frequently. The Graze is effectively the "Zaku II" to the Geirail's Zaku I. (Right down to the same 06 prefix.) It has been around with minor variations since the Calamity War. The Graze itself was the first suit developed after the Calamity War so it's been around for a good long time.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 02:48
|
|
|
I love that bit
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 02:52
|
|
|
overlordbunny posted:At least according to the wiki, the landmann rodi's are just the rodi frames they captured from the Brewers. I don't know if they gave a count of how many they got then. The Earth Branch was using four Landman Rodis during the Arbrau conflict, they may have had more but after they decided to dissolve the Earth Branch they took three surviving Rodi's back to Mars. So they had at minimum 3 Rodis then. Dante's Rodi was the only one that sortied during the final battle, though at least one other was in fighting shape.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 03:04
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:The Graze is effectively the "Zaku II" to the Geirail's Zaku I. (Right down to the same 06 prefix.) It has been around with minor variations since the Calamity War. The Graze itself was the first suit developed after the Calamity War so it's been around for a good long time. I thought the Geirail was the first unit developed post Calamity War, based on the late Calamity War era Valkyrie frame, and that the Graze was a refinement of the Geirail that better suited Gjallarhorn's needs produced not long after the Geirail?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 03:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 10:50 |
|
|
Kanos posted:They just don't really need large numbers of MS, anyway. As you say, prior to IBO S2, basically nobody in Gjallarhorn's area of influence had mobile suits, and the ones who did had very few. Gjallarhorn could easily have what would seem like a pitifully small amount of MS spread very thinly across their territories and it would likely be more than sufficient when deployed in support of their much larger conventional forces(such as the mobile worker forces we see attacking CGS or defending Edmonton). The manuals go as far as to say that no matter how large a force of Mobile Workers you have, you'd be unlikely to do any serious damage to one Mobile Suit. Given that naval artillery is treated like a joke, one Graze is probably enough for almost any situation. A squad of three is just standard procedure to handle anything unexpected. Of course, on the flipside, we do see a fair number of civilian Mobile suits. The rebels in season 1 and 2 just grab guns for their construction equipment and they're good to go. Presumably, a pretty healthy chunk of PD Mobile Suits are employed that way. Enough firepower to deter pirates, but their baseline equipment is geared around colony repair. We see half a dozen Spinner Rodi in one hangar during the Dort uprising Looking at MS development as a curve, PD probably has one of the flattest design lineups of any Gundam setting. Civilian suits are notably weaker than Gundams, but a Spinner Rodi is still a highly durable (one we see trashed after being intentionally sabotaged is still mostly intact), highly agile (See: Amida) machine capable of mounting heavy firepower. Unlike, say, a Anf and a Flag (let alone a GNX) a civilian machine is still something you have to take as a threat. Mildly interesting. ImpAtom posted:The Graze is effectively the "Zaku II" to the Geirail's Zaku I. (Right down to the same 06 prefix.) It has been around with minor variations since the Calamity War. The Graze itself was the first suit developed after the Calamity War so it's been around for a good long time. No, the Valkyries were around in the Calamity War. The Graze, by contrast, was built relatively recently as a low priced and easy to use descendant of the original machine, with the Geirail as one of the intermediary steps. The switchover was long enough ago that all combat units now use Grazes, but not so long ago that Geirails have been completely replaced as training units. The Graze being (relatively) new is part of the reason the Reginlaze was only developed after Edmonton. Gjallarhorn just spent a lot on getting their MS corps set up with a new mainline machine. Repeating the whole process was politically difficult until Tekkadan proved it was necessary.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 03:13
|
|