Magic: the Gathering: I play a larger and larger green man

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Magic: the Gathering: I play a larger and larger green man

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fadam: Apr 23, 2008

None of this would have happened if CLB cards were stronger.

# ? May 25, 2022 00:08

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 15:43

flatluigi: Apr 23, 2008; here come the planes

Arivia posted:

they are openly speaking about their work as an employee for wotc on this product when wotc has been repeatedly loving up representation in both mtg and d&d for years now. it's reasonable to be upset because the company has repeatedly proven they're idiots about this stuff.

good thing they've hired a queer person who's interested in fixing past mistakes regarding representation and making up for lost ground, then

# ? May 25, 2022 00:08

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

flatluigi posted:

good thing they've hired a queer person who's interested in fixing past mistakes regarding representation and making up for lost ground, then

and yet, they're making it worse. hence complaining about it here!

# ? May 25, 2022 00:10

Nighthand: Nov 4, 2009; what horror the gas

Wait did you just write a long paragraph about how using fanwikis is bad and then in the immediate next paragraph use a fanwiki as your proof?

# ? May 25, 2022 00:14

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

It sounds to me like what they're making "worse" is forgotten realms or baldur's gate, due to being lazy about research and consequently besmirching these fictional characters. They're still making more magic cards with queer people and people of color and people with different abilities and that's all great in my book.

Arivia posted:

Except that they (the art director, Justice) repeatedly posted about making sure that every character was a queer person they thought was hot*. What else are you going to call that besides tumblr queer fandom culture, and I'm speaking as a queer person myself?

I don't think anyone here cares about how horny someone's being on twitter. Even if they're an art director at Wizards.

# ? May 25, 2022 00:22

flatluigi: Apr 23, 2008; here come the planes

Arivia posted:

and yet, they're making it worse. hence complaining about it here!

the only thing they're doing wrong, if everything you've said is actually true, is feel like some characters in their original forms were badly represented if you look at them on their surface instead of doing the encyclopedic hardcore research that you've done on the subject. i do not think things like having a nb character or someone using a prosthetic in art are bad things, and i honestly straight up support having different interpretations of these characters regardless of how warranted having those new interpretations is

i think you feel like the percieved disrespect towards baldur's gate the media property is the most important issue here, and i think it's coloring everything else you're saying in a way that comes across really poorly

# ? May 25, 2022 00:23

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

Look who I found on Moxfield: https://www.moxfield.com/users/vargvikernes

I was looking for inspiration for a Queza commander deck and he came up. Not a fun surprise!

# ? May 25, 2022 00:26

ilmucche: Mar 16, 2016; What did you say the strategy was?

flatluigi posted:

i think you feel like the percieved disrespect towards baldur's gate the media property is the most important issue here, and i think it's coloring everything else you're saying in a way that comes across really poorly

This is how I'm reading it.

Another strong argument for stopping these tie-in sets lol

# ? May 25, 2022 00:27

GonSmithe: Apr 25, 2010; Perhaps it's in the nature of television. Just waves in space.

"These cards got incredibly minor details that no one who isn't an obsessive weirdo nerd would notice wrong! Better act like representation is wrong and performative now, as a queer person!"

Wild take.

# ? May 25, 2022 00:29

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Leperflesh posted:

It sounds to me like what they're making "worse" is forgotten realms or baldur's gate, due to being lazy about research and consequently besmirching these fictional characters. They're still making more magic cards with queer people and people of color and people with different abilities and that's all great in my book.

I don't think anyone here cares about how horny someone's being on twitter. Even if they're an art director at Wizards.

I don't care how horny it is either, but when your co-mod probates me and says i'm being offtopic and throwing around unsubstantiated allegations, providing the details they were blind to previously is important.

flatluigi posted:

the only thing they're doing wrong, if everything you've said is actually true, is feel like some characters in their original forms were badly represented if you look at them on their surface instead of doing the encyclopedic hardcore research that you've done on the subject. i do not think things like having a nb character or someone using a prosthetic in art are bad things, and i honestly straight up support having different interpretations of these characters regardless of how warranted having those new interpretations is

i think you feel like the percieved disrespect towards baldur's gate the media property is the most important issue here, and i think it's coloring everything else you're saying in a way that comes across really poorly

nah i've accepted for years that wotc is gonna get this poo poo repeatedly wrong and they've kept doing it throughout AFR and everything

what is ultimately really disappointing is the lack of rigor, attention, research and criticism. i care about being inclusive and providing good representation, but it has to be done well, not whatever the gently caress all this is.

e: to put it another way, i was resigned by the previews just being whatever. i've been frustrated by how lovely justice's hot takes have been.

# ? May 25, 2022 00:32

flatluigi: Apr 23, 2008; here come the planes

it'd also help a lot if you stopped conflating representation (of the varying types of real people that exist) with representation (of the baldur's gate and associated dungeons and dragons media properties)

# ? May 25, 2022 00:35

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

GonSmithe posted:

"These cards got incredibly minor details that no one who isn't an obsessive weirdo nerd would notice wrong! Better act like representation is wrong and performative now, as a queer person!"

Wild take.

Hopefully for the true DnD heads, the next Baldur's Gate set has all the racist characters in it, and maybe also include ~~Invoke Prejudice~~ (lol woops reserved list) Stone-Throwing Devils while they're at it.

# ? May 25, 2022 00:37

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

flatluigi posted:

it'd also help a lot if you stopped conflating representation (of the varying types of real people that exist) with representation (of the baldur's gate and associated dungeons and dragons media properties)

that's the whole point: Justice is already making that conflation and doing it extremely poorly, hence "fictional god Bane is anti-Black"

# ? May 25, 2022 00:38

Mezzanon: Sep 16, 2003; Pillbug

Arivia posted:

I don't care how horny it is either, but when your co-mod probates me and says i'm being offtopic and throwing around unsubstantiated allegations, providing the details they were blind to previously is important.

nah i've accepted for years that wotc is gonna get this poo poo repeatedly wrong and they've kept doing it throughout AFR and everything

what is ultimately really disappointing is the lack of rigor, attention, research and criticism. i care about being inclusive and providing good representation, but it has to be done well, not whatever the gently caress all this is.

e: to put it another way, i was resigned by the previews just being whatever. i've been frustrated by how lovely justice's hot takes have been.

Do you think any of these �woke� cards will see legacy play?

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? May 25, 2022 00:39

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

Arivia posted:

that's the whole point: Justice is already making that conflation and doing it extremely poorly, hence "fictional god Bane is anti-Black"

I tried to read your explanation of that and I don't know what about Bane's son not wearing pants and art directors not responding to you on twitter has to do with this.

You know the card's black, right?

# ? May 25, 2022 01:02

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

I tried to read your explanation of that and I don't know what about Bane's son not wearing pants and art directors not responding to you on twitter has to do with this.

You know the card's black, right?

In this case anti-Black refers to the real life race, not the MtG colour. Justice repeatedly says Bane is associated with anti-Blackness in their tweets.

# ? May 25, 2022 01:09

Koirhor: Jan 14, 2008; by Fluffdaddy

I�m so confused right now

# ? May 25, 2022 01:11

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

Arivia posted:

In this case anti-Black refers to the real life race, not the MtG colour. Justice repeatedly says Bane is associated with anti-Blackness in their tweets.

What does the presence or absence of pants have to do with this? Why did you dedicate so much time to the pants?

# ? May 25, 2022 01:11

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

What does the presence or absence of pants have to do with this? Why did you dedicate so much time to the pants?

I didn't. It was a single sentence to point out Justice being demonstrably incorrect. That's not "so much time," that's the minimum unit of how communicating about a subject works in English.

# ? May 25, 2022 01:16

fadam: Apr 23, 2008

Koirhor posted:

I�m so confused right now

# ? May 25, 2022 01:17

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

Arivia posted:

I didn't. It was a single sentence to point out Justice being demonstrably incorrect. That's not "so much time," that's the minimum unit of how communicating about a subject works in English.

They're incorrect about pants and priest robes, which are the important parts of discerning the racial coding of a character's lore.

Gotcha.

# ? May 25, 2022 01:22

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Koirhor posted:

I’m so confused right now

I think the main problem is that are too many genders, and too few arms in the set? Hard to say for sure.

# ? May 25, 2022 01:25

kalel: Jun 19, 2012

MonsieurChoc posted:

I got a bunch more to add too (as well as all my cards not in decks), this a long project. And like I said I know they're mostly garbo because I made them when I was just playing casually with friends over the years. I'm only just starting to want to make good decks haha.

so what exactly are your goals regarding deck building? What formats are you interested in? What's your budget? Do you have a regular playgroup or lgs? I'm asking because from your posts itt it sounds like you're looking to deck build but not towards any specific end.

never forget that you can just print any card you want on printer paper. you can get a whole tricked out cedh deck with alternate arts for a quarter at your local public library's printer

# ? May 25, 2022 01:27

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

I think Arivia is arguing that because Mazzy was paladin-ish in BG2 through a slew of unique abilities, to circumvent the racial limitation on Halflings being paladins, making her an actual paladin in the set is basically the same sort of empty pandering as the burger king kids club having exactly one black person in it.

# ? May 25, 2022 01:36

HootTheOwl: May 13, 2012; Hootin and shootin

Personally I'm just mad that it can both be so diverse and yet all look the same.

# ? May 25, 2022 01:48

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

kalel posted:

so what exactly are your goals regarding deck building? What formats are you interested in? What's your budget? Do you have a regular playgroup or lgs? I'm asking because from your posts itt it sounds like you're looking to deck build but not towards any specific end.

never forget that you can just print any card you want on printer paper. you can get a whole tricked out cedh deck with alternate arts for a quarter at your local public library's printer

Right now I'm looking for a regular playgroup in my area. I decided to get back into magic when Neon Dynasty was announced and impulse purchased a bunch of boosters and now I have these cards I wanna do something with. The kind of decks and formats I'll play will depend a lot on what kind of group I end up finding, so right now I'm just looking at making decks that use the cards I have and that are interesting or fun. I'll definitely be looking at the various lgs in Montreal to see if there's one with a cool atmosphere I wanna hang out at.

Mostly, I've got the energy of someone getting back into a hobby they loved during their childhood and I wanna talk cards.

# ? May 25, 2022 01:54

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

I think Arivia is arguing that because Mazzy was paladin-ish in BG2 through a slew of unique abilities, to circumvent the racial limitation on Halflings being paladins, making her an actual paladin in the set is basically the same sort of empty pandering as the burger king kids club having exactly one black person in it.

Seems pretty racist to not let a halfling be a paladin in the first place.

# ? May 25, 2022 02:00

Darkoni: Dec 28, 2010; You do not look terribly noble and yet I feel troubled, attracted, bewitched.

Arivia posted:

Bane:

While the thread isn't the most clear, the AD speaks to Anti-blackness being portrayed by the early followers and notable characters likely found in the novels they read(But they're also probably loving lying about that too, right?) Some follow up would be appreciated it seems the thread was meant to be pretty broad. Spending some time looking at images and other notes online I've found they do get some things wrong (they mixed up a priest of Bane and Myrkul with their human forms Oh no!!!!) But over all I think their perspective speaks to a lot more information than what's available on the wiki.

Arivia posted:

Dynaheir

I was real high for my playthrough of BG1 but I think they are referring to the fact that the one black character fits neatly into the 'loud, opinionated, difficult' black women stereotype. the tribal stereotypes they talk about might have something to do with her being an exoticized 'witch' from a foreign land with a magical connection to the spirits and an strange way of talking. The sexualization also likely refers to Dynaheir being exoticized but I'm not writing this response in order and i'm tired. In a vacuum no one thing looks out of place but taken all together with the context of what black representation in fantasy, video games, and the wider culture of the 90s Dynaheir is just one more character that falls into problematic tropes and something better needs to be done.

Arivia posted:

Kagain:

So! if you clicked on the link you'll see that the card was called Kagain, the Greedy. Furthermore from the Biography section of the BG fan wiki you linked:
"When asked about his past, KAGAIN stresses that the questioner should just mind their own business if they want to keep their teeth. It is apparent that he runs a rather shady mercenary company and that he is quite obsessed with wealth, but any information beyond this he is content to keep to himself."

You admit there's AT LEAST a conversation going on about how anti-Semitic stereotypes inform our perceptions of dwarves. So I'm sure you can appreciate why a money obsessed jewish sterotype who's only background is kills for money isn't a good look in 2022.

Arivia posted:

Mazzy:

First, Mazzy wasn't allowed to be a Paladin in BG2, not DnD 3E. Second, so while it is a good thing that dnd lightened up class restrictions then, and it's still working on that now wrt removing inherent alignment and static bonus/malus stats, but the legacy of certain races being inherently inferior to others is kind of the foundation of race science and white supremacy. It's a cancer that should be removed from the works it appears in. How we portray these things in media matters. Calling out and removing meaningless discriminations in media matters. Mazzy being unable to be a paladin because as a halfling she's genetically inferior to humans and can only play pretend is lovely and comes from a time when elves meant white people and orcs meant black people. Oh but there can be black elves, i guess. But they are explicitly evil. Like White elves are good and pure and Black elves and evil and unclean. There is Drizz't Do'urden He's 'one of the good ones' and by coincidence is very light skinned for a drow. But i'm sure that doesn't create a terrible feedback loop of racism. Fantasy depictions are just that, right?

Arivia posted:

Oh, and if you're wondering about the BK Kids Club approach:

How much justification does a gay character need to appear in a dnd setting? Honest question. I've only read the 3 main source books for 3.5 cover to cover a thousand times, am currently in a group playing 5e for over a year and playing through the Baldur's Gate games rn. So I haven't read much of the novels or anything like that. I always thought it didn't matter and it could be whatever but I'm happy to learn! Is it like a thing established in Ebberon or whatever that you need to go on a magic quest to kill a god so you can kiss boys? What about being trans? Is there a governing body you have to submit a dissertation to before you are allowed to make a trans character in dnd? What are the rules regarding to when nonwhite, noncis, disabled, etc. etc. loving etc. can appear?

Or does it in fact, not matter and you can do whatever? if that's the case why do you care about the art directors decision to include gay, poc, etc. etc. loving etc?

I think your real problem is someone else's reading of lovely dnd lore and the fact they come off as too 'tumblr-y' for you.

# ? May 25, 2022 02:36

LifeLynx: Feb 27, 2001; Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time; Grimey Drawer

https://twitter.com/vote_checkbox/status/1529155799288795140?t=jWcspW40v-EVYgW38J4dYA&s=19

# ? May 25, 2022 02:36

Froghammer: Sep 8, 2012; Khajit has wares
if you have coin

I just lost a game of Standard after an opponent Kazuul's Fury'd a 43/43 Fractal token directly at my face which they hit off of turn 4 Invoke Calamity into a discarded Body of Research.

A+ Five Stars No Notes

# ? May 25, 2022 02:59

th3t00t: Aug 14, 2007; GOOD CLEAN FOOTBALL

fadam posted:

None of this would have happened if CLB cards were stronger.

Set bad, so what

# ? May 25, 2022 03:48

TotalHell: Feb 22, 2005; _{Roman Reigns fights CM Punk in fantasy warld. Lotsa violins, so littl kids cant red it.}

LifeLynx posted:

https://twitter.com/vote_checkbox/status/1529155799288795140?t=jWcspW40v-EVYgW38J4dYA&s=19

Yes, 100%. Give me this.

# ? May 25, 2022 04:11

Algid: Oct 10, 2007

Froghammer posted:

I just lost a game of Standard after an opponent Kazuul's Fury'd a 43/43 Fractal token directly at my face which they hit off of turn 4 Invoke Calamity into a discarded Body of Research.

A+ Five Stars No Notes

I've died to calamity research twice so far, only once to fling though and they waited till my turn even though I was a tapped out red deck. Pretty sure I've killed them a lot more often than that though without even figuring out what the deck was. It's the same with arcane bombardment, only really went off like 3 times total, I even had a game yesterday with multiturn bombardment that I survived because they loaded up their graveyard with way too much filtering beforehand and blanked like 4 times, standard "combo" decks just aren't worth it since they lack the speed of real combo decks, I play monored instead because it can actually win on turn 4.

# ? May 25, 2022 05:00

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Froghammer posted:

I just lost a game of Standard after an opponent Kazuul's Fury'd a 43/43 Fractal token directly at my face which they hit off of turn 4 Invoke Calamity into a discarded Body of Research.

A+ Five Stars No Notes

Yeah someone was playing that at the set championship this past weekend, looked fun

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/4830292#paper

# ? May 25, 2022 05:04

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

I don't mind weaker sets, they can be really fun when played on their own.

I jsut don't like Forgotten Realms much.

# ? May 25, 2022 06:16

ilmucche: Mar 16, 2016; What did you say the strategy was?

When tie in universes were announced wasn't there a big argument about "it doesn't change mtg as a game, stop being so protective about your IP"?

I don't think changes as to who's wearing pants in mtg space is going to change baldur's gate canon

# ? May 25, 2022 08:15