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Geisladisk posted:I do think the AOS changeover was good, but it was extremely Old GW to kill WFB just as a extremely huge video game was released which could have revived interest in WFB. It is worth saying imho that TW series as much as I like it is nothing like playing game of wfb so I don't think people it would trick into it would stay en masse. I would say the closest adaptation of tabletop gw game would be Mordheim as both versions will leave you screaming as you watch your whole team gets unraveled by a few bad rolls
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May 25, 2022 12:46
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Sydney Bottocks posted:I remember reading some articles shortly after WHFB was nuked and AoS debuted, where the authors were shocked that GW just basically ceded the entire "mass battles with ranked armies" style of playing to other companies. Especially as AoS debuted as a small skirmish game after the popular wave of smaller skirmish-level games (Infinity, Warmahordes, Malifaux, etc. etc.) had already crested. This was all of specialist games, too, and an entire ecosystem of bootleggers and knockoffs rushed in.
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May 25, 2022 13:59
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Covermeinsunshine posted:It is worth saying imho that TW series as much as I like it is nothing like playing game of wfb so I don't think people it would trick into it would stay en masse. I would say the closest adaptation of tabletop gw game would be Mordheim as both versions will leave you screaming as you watch your whole team gets unraveled by a few bad rolls imo Blood Bowl absolutely takes the cake as closest adaptation to video game. It's basically a 1:1 port
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May 25, 2022 14:21
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NC Wyeth Death Cult posted:This was all of specialist games, too, and an entire ecosystem of bootleggers and knockoffs rushed in. GW was pretty happy to just leave stuff to languish for decades during that era Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 15:51 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 14:48
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Improbable Lobster posted:That era of GW was pretty happy to just leave stuff to languish for decades during that era When I worked at a game/comic bookstore there were always GW whales- people who got into the hobby who had a lot of disposable income and were really lonely. They were in every week and they just dumped money into it, I remember one guy told me he had enough Space Marines figures to field the Big Red One division from WW2. I think the Apocalypse rule set kicked the whales into a frenzy and drove a lot of that side of the hobby so why bother with fantasy football or space ships or Epic when you could just crank out 28mm scale Baneblades and Titans.
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May 25, 2022 15:04
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Fun fact: GW nuked the Old World setting shortly after the announcement of TW:WHFB! Which led to a fair bit of anxiety at the video game developer, as I recall I've also heard that because GW sold the rights to make new Old World stuff to the Total Warhammer Franchise until the series was done, they have not been able to make any new stuff for it themselves. Hence the long wait for the new Old World stuff.
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May 25, 2022 15:09
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goodness posted:I've also heard that because GW sold the rights to make new Old World stuff to the Total Warhammer Franchise until the series was done, they have not been able to make any new stuff for it themselves. Hence the long wait for the new Old World stuff. That doesn't seem right. I would think the licensing deal would be for video games specifically and wouldn't impact their miniatures. That would be a bizarre deal.
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May 25, 2022 15:53
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goodness posted:I've also heard that because GW sold the rights to make new Old World stuff to the Total Warhammer Franchise until the series was done, they have not been able to make any new stuff for it themselves. Hence the long wait for the new Old World stuff. Hasn't Creative Assembly said that any new units they made for TW had to be okay'd through GW first though?
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May 25, 2022 15:58
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I think the element of GW leadership that decided to kill the Old World just didn't expect TW to be a huge deal and may not even have "respected" it's success. Massive missed opportunity; imagine if a cheap mono pose 10mm model line had been released for the first four armies along with Total Warhammer 1. Something along the cost scale of kill team, and with free rules online, but you're moving around a half dozen regimental bases.
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May 25, 2022 15:59
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You're basically describing Warmaster and it is a fantastic game
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May 25, 2022 16:21
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Right, war master but also with GW making less expensive models with all rules just posted online for free (lololol)
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May 25, 2022 16:23
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chin up everything sucks posted:Nathan Long is the one who went "Remember that Little Girl that G&F save from her Chaos Warrior mother back in one of the early stories? Well now she's an adult, and Felix (who is now nearly 40) is going to find be her Romantic Interest." I'm in the middle of the first book and yikes! Glad I decided to not read anything past the original author's run. xtothez posted:At least one game designer from the time has talked about why fantasy got a total reboot: The world making it actually hard to write stories is not a bad point, and honestly they could have done a scenario like the end times. But it feels like what it should have done is that it was the same world but massively changed by the apocalyptic scenario they just faced. Now AOS is kind of that, except too much changed. Lucinice fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 16:54
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In my experience, the biggest problem with 8th edition WHFB was that the rules fostered Fantasy Apocalypse scale. And that was exclusively appealing to whales and long term players who already had 50+ strong units and massive centerpieces, but thoroughly inaccessible to new players. It's still a problem today, when you try to play and the Haves want to play 8th and the Have-Nots want to do 6th or 7th.
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May 25, 2022 16:56
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Lucinice posted:I'm in the middle of the first book and yikes! Glad I decided to not read anything past the original author's run. You could give aos ones a shot - since it's another author the only creepy stuff would be Gitz (and they are good kind of creepy). Jack B Nimble posted:I think the element of GW leadership that decided to kill the Old World just didn't expect TW to be a huge deal and may not even have "respected" it's success. Massive missed opportunity; imagine if a cheap mono pose 10mm model line had been released for the first four armies along with Total Warhammer 1. Something along the cost scale of kill team, and with free rules online, but you're moving around a half dozen regimental bases. Considering track record of total war series the fact that warhammer ones were good must have been a shock to multiple people (and neither part of that trilogy was good from the get go so there is that) Covermeinsunshine fucked around with this message at 20:14 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 17:10
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Covermeinsunshine posted:You could give aos ones a shot - since it's another author the only creepy stuff would be Gitz (and they are good kind of creepy).  But no, in retrospect it's clear I had a highly flattering view of Total War by basically going from Shogun 2 to Total Warhammer 1. Nothing but hits babeee!
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May 25, 2022 18:26
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moths posted:In my experience, the biggest problem with 8th edition WHFB was that the rules fostered Fantasy Apocalypse scale. And that was exclusively appealing to whales and long term players who already had 50+ strong units and massive centerpieces, but thoroughly inaccessible to new players. I had multiple fantasy armies during 7th, the swing to 8 was still punishing as hell. If you had cannon fodder unit in your army you were probably adding another 50-100% model count. The magic system also went loving insane in 8th.
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May 25, 2022 19:44
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I bought a tomb kings army off a 7th editioner who was severely burnt by the 8th edition book. He'd invested heavily in units that were suddenly nerfed. That sort of change may be inevitable in an edition change of a big wargame, but the sheer model count of warhammer fantasy made it hurt a lot more, especially if your investment was more than just models but also lots of time spent on painting. He actually had plenty of skeletons and skeleton archers, so not having enough models wasn't the problem for him. Like part of the collection I bought was a big unit of metal mummies, and there were no mummies in the 8th edition book at all. I used a handful of them as substitute commanders or characters for other units, but there was just no way to really use all these mummies, they were a dead expense. I'm sure that happened with a lot of other armies too. When that happens in a skirmish game you might have to stop using a handful of minis, but you generally don't wind up with 40+ useless ones.
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May 25, 2022 19:59
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I feel like the various "traitor legions" have a lot of room for "the compressed narrative of history has erased my position as a moderate opposition splinter faction". It's basically impossible to avoid taking sides in the civil war and more than one small band of legionnaires had to have been ground to dust by one or both factions for no better reason than "if you're not with us, you're against us".
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May 25, 2022 20:11
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Leperflesh posted:I bought a tomb kings army off a 7th editioner who was severely burnt by the 8th edition book. He'd invested heavily in units that were suddenly nerfed. That sort of change may be inevitable in an edition change of a big wargame, but the sheer model count of warhammer fantasy made it hurt a lot more, especially if your investment was more than just models but also lots of time spent on painting. He actually had plenty of skeletons and skeleton archers, so not having enough models wasn't the problem for him. TBF, Mummies weren't a unit in WFB since the 4th ed mishmash Undead Army. VC became their own thing in 5th, and TKs only had "mummies" in the loosest sense of the word with the characters starting in 6th ed.
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May 25, 2022 20:15
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Covermeinsunshine posted:Considering track record of total war series the fact that warhammer ones were good must have been a shock to multiple people (and neither part of that trilogy was good from the get go so there is that)
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May 25, 2022 20:36
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Talas posted:Man, I hope they do something with TW:W3, because it has been a very rough start... worse than the others. I feel you - I played it some and then got back to tw2. As far as I'm concerned, they could have just made Kislev, Cathay and ogres as dlc and add them that way. Honestly, full cathay or kislev release for old world could convince me to give it a shot
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May 25, 2022 20:43
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Talas posted:Man, I hope they do something with TW:W3, because it has been a very rough start... worse than the others. Not worse than Rome 2! But based on the last few updates they seem to be on the right track.
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May 25, 2022 20:50
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they shouldnt have put space marines in warhammer fantasy. i hate aos.
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May 26, 2022 05:46
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currently working my way through a mordheim quest campaign where i mix both games together into a city crawl and it’s great. it’s making me want to play regular mordheim too but good god the miniatures are expensive
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May 26, 2022 05:48
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Mordheim is one of the most well provided for with alternative GW minis and third party bits for making your own. The original Mordheim minis are largely pretty rubbish now, as well as costing insane amounts.
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May 26, 2022 09:51
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sasha_d3ath posted:The early stuff is good, but I think it's generally agreed that post-80s they get kind of gross and edgy and not so ideal. Oh, that's a shame, I wonder how the quality declined... TheDiceMustRoll posted:
Oh dear. I've only read them in the gollancz fantasy masterworks compilations. I certainly don't remember that bit. Will have to look up the bibliography. The worst bit I remember is they both got married to cool adventuring babes (or at any rate not quite straight-up damsels on distress) and then there were a couple stories where they were married, and these women were just portrayed as handbrakes on their awesome bromance adventure lifestyle. Maybe the author has some issues.
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May 26, 2022 10:27
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Squibsy posted:The original Mordheim minis are largely pretty rubbish now, as well as costing insane amounts. No joke, the price of Warmaster figures was what pushed me over the edge into 3d printing. In the first week I printed the equivalent of what I paid for the printer.
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May 26, 2022 12:27
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Squibsy posted:Mordheim is one of the most well provided for with alternative GW minis and third party bits for making your own. The original Mordheim minis are largely pretty rubbish now, as well as costing insane amounts. i like vintage figures. now that everything is sculpted in zbrush, miniatures are too overly detailed and look bad on the table imo but yeah i have a bunch of non gw minis too
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May 26, 2022 13:05
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i think the frostgrave soldiers are probably the best deal for a mordheim mercenary warband and they look great. i don't really like the modeling part of the hobby but i enjoy painting. what i really need is some counterfeit chaos dwarfs for the centaurs and other rarer models to round out my warhammer quest bestiary
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May 26, 2022 13:17
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Yo since this is specialist games and i'm in the middle of selling out of 40k - I've been thinking about jumping into necromunda with either new nomads or enforcers. Can someone give me a few pointers about those( I know nomads are new but maybe someone already played with them).
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May 26, 2022 13:48
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jarofpiss posted:i like vintage figures. now that everything is sculpted in zbrush, miniatures are too overly detailed and look bad on the table imo I prefer older minis too, a lot of modern digitally sculpted minis make the mistake to confuse being ABLE to put on a ton of tiny details and it being a good design choice to do so. So you get super busy minis that are a pain to paint, and will probably look bad unless you spend a lot of time painting and have adequate skills. They often also have lovely silhouettes too. It can be a breath of fresh air to pick up a less busy mini and paint.
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May 26, 2022 13:52
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lilljonas posted:I prefer older minis too, a lot of modern digitally sculpted minis make the mistake to confuse being ABLE to put on a ton of tiny details and it being a good design choice to do so. So you get super busy minis that are a pain to paint, and will probably look bad unless you spend a lot of time painting and have adequate skills. They often also have lovely silhouettes too. It can be a breath of fresh air to pick up a less busy mini and paint. I had some huge whiplash going from painting metal Sisters of Battle to the new plastic ones. Yeah the new ones look good, but they are so drat busy.
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May 26, 2022 13:55
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Enforcers didn't need to stray that far from the old Judge Dread look. As it is they just look like video game enemies, there's nothing 40K about them
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May 26, 2022 14:30
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moths posted:No joke, the price of Warmaster figures was what pushed me over the edge into 3d printing. I've recently printed out two whole warbands for Mordheim, some not-Sisters of Sigmar and some not-Witch Hunters, using STLs from a variety of makers (Monstrous Encounters for the SoS, and also for some of the Witch Hunters, along with some other minis from Reptilian Overlords, Vae Victis and Titan Forge). I don't even want to think what they'd have cost if I'd tried to get the originals off of eBay.
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May 26, 2022 14:48
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jarofpiss posted:i like vintage figures. now that everything is sculpted in zbrush, miniatures are too overly detailed and look bad on the table imo Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of vintage as well. For me though, much of the Mordheim range falls on the 'old and bad' end of the scale rather than 'old and classic'
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May 26, 2022 14:50
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lilljonas posted:I prefer older minis too, a lot of modern digitally sculpted minis make the mistake to confuse being ABLE to put on a ton of tiny details and it being a good design choice to do so. So you get super busy minis that are a pain to paint, and will probably look bad unless you spend a lot of time painting and have adequate skills. They often also have lovely silhouettes too. It can be a breath of fresh air to pick up a less busy mini and paint. Agreed wholeheartedly. It’s why I love seeing digital stuff by classic sculptors. Take stuff by Kev White, Bob Naismith, or Patrick Keith - all of them really know their poo poo as far as physical sculpting for miniatures, and so their digital work is pretty close to it and doesn’t have the glut of details. Or just watch people who are still doing traditional sculpting - Trish Carden is great for that. Basically, if the proportions are closer to ideal human than to silly tiny mans scale (7-8 heads versus the GW house style of 5.5 heads) and the textures are overwhelming and there’s no clear silhouette, then you can tell that they’re either coming from a videogame background or they’re not studying the style as much. Silhouette is one of those things you don’t think about until it’s pointed out, and then it’s all you see for a bit. Like, SLAMBO is a perfect example - nice, bold design, clear stance and purpose, and if you paint the whole thing black, you can still tell what’s happening.
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May 26, 2022 15:24
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Covermeinsunshine posted:Yo since this is specialist games and i'm in the middle of selling out of 40k - I've been thinking about jumping into necromunda with either new nomads or enforcers. Can someone give me a few pointers about those( I know nomads are new but maybe someone already played with them). Nomads seem to have their best strengths in medium-long range firepower, with some decent melee options as a counterpoint. It's really hard to tell as their only rules at the moment are essentially quick start rules. They will almost certainly receive expanded options on a similar level to more established clan house gangs. Enforcers are a gang with mediocre stats, especially on their champions, so aren't too strong, but have excellent shooting focussed skills. Their fighters are separated into Palanites, who can select a good variety of effective ranged weapons, and Subjugators, who can be more heavily armoured and have a mix of (slightly less awesome) ranged and melee weapon options. I've done an updated enforcers guide for Goonhammer, might not get published for a few weeks, if you have PMs I can send you the draft?
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May 26, 2022 22:15
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The newest Blood Bowl errata nerfed Throw Team Mate. If the thrown team mate doesn't have the ball, but hits another player, it's a turnover now. Who the hell thought that stunty teams needed a nerf?
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May 27, 2022 00:22
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syzpid posted:The newest Blood Bowl errata nerfed Throw Team Mate. it's an underworld nerf, and they're good. it sucks that it hits a bunch of other teams that aren't though
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May 27, 2022 00:30
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Cease to Hope posted:it's an underworld nerf, and they're good. it sucks that it hits a bunch of other teams that aren't though Underworld's good now? Animosity always showed up at the absolute worst times whenever I played them.
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May 27, 2022 00:35
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