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christmas boots posted:Ruby is a domestic terrorist & cartel operative who constructed a dirty weapon under the city and unleashed it on Kim. Cartel operative: yes. Domestic terrorist: where does this one pull from? It's been a while since I played far enough to meet her. I don't recall her doing anything to earn the title (unless her part in the coverup is what you mean, which would be a stretch to say the least). Constructed a dirty weapon: the latitude compressor isn't exactly comparable to, like, a dirty bomb or something... it's a piece of industrial equipment that happens to be really unpleasant for someone right in front of it as a side effect (that I don't think is really delved into, but again, been a while). Didn't get the impression it could really be used as a weapon in any sense other than the specific trap she sets up. Used it on Kim: well, no mercy then, I guess.
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May 25, 2022 17:47
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Like Volition says, mercy is rarely a mistake. And when it is, it's often one worth making.
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May 25, 2022 17:49
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Harry is a Hillary operative there to frame ruby and prevent her from endorsing Trump, op
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May 25, 2022 17:57
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SkyeAuroline posted:Cartel operative: yes. Domestic terrorist is building on the leap I make comparing pale emitters to nuclear weapons. It’s not a stretch I just have very high conceptualization
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May 25, 2022 18:00
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christmas boots posted:Domestic terrorist is building on the leap I make comparing pale emitters to nuclear weapons. It’s not a stretch I just have very high conceptualization Gotcha. I can see where it's coming from, we're probably just imagining the potential course of events differently.
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May 25, 2022 18:08
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No I’m just being difficult
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May 25, 2022 18:09
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Sardonik posted:How is she in any way a garbage person? At worst she's guilty of corporate espionage and lying to the police. Corporate espionage seems pretty cool and good, except for the part where they murder you afterward. To add to the aforementioned cold hearted framing, the corporate espionage self-admittedly ruined numerous lives and led to at least one suicide. That the game heavily implies that she's a fairly seasoned spook suggests that this wasn't exactly an unforeseen outcome for her. There's some parallels with the mercenary team there; capital has shaped both of them into fairly cold-hearted weapons, although with different uses. All that doesn't mean that sending her to die probably isn't the right move.
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May 25, 2022 18:18
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This is the true reason Klaasje deserves to be arrested  
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May 25, 2022 18:23
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Klaasje deserves to be arrested for rebuffing my advances 5 minutes into the games.
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May 25, 2022 18:27
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Vagabong posted:All that doesn't mean that sending her to die probably isn't the right move. This double negative is confusing me.
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May 25, 2022 19:02
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I re-read it and I think I confused myself
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May 25, 2022 19:06
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Klaasje makes good on helping you crack the case (when she did not have to, and is clearly remorseful how it turned out) and has no part in the original murder but she starts the dominos that ends up getting a half dozen people killed in the street and just peaces out at the critical moment. She also hosed over Ruby who actually was growing to like her new position and home. Doesn't mean she's explicitly evil or deserves to disappear into an organ bank on behalf of the moralintern, but in a vacuum where you don't know all the extenuating circumstances or outcomes detaining her is a sensible choice.
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May 25, 2022 19:25
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Although even without her I think you still end up with bloodshed in the streets. The mercs are still going to be looking for someone to blame and the Hardy Boys probably still end up taking the heat for it just by dint of being the local muscle.
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May 25, 2022 19:34
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Also she walked so many stories back as fabrications when called on it, Harry could be forgiven for thinking the corporate espionage was just potentially another another onion layer and really she was really wanted for being in charge of a factory grinding up kidnapped Seolite infants or some poo poo.
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May 25, 2022 19:36
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christmas boots posted:Although even without her I think you still end up with bloodshed in the streets. The mercs are still going to be looking for someone to blame and the Hardy Boys probably still end up taking the heat for it just by dint of being the local muscle.
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May 25, 2022 19:41
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Maybe. But they're all pretty unbalanced and the guy who explicitly could wrangle and defuse them is also the guy that was killed. Also Evrart kind of wants things to come to a head. Maybe not to the point of actual bloodshed, but he needs there to be enough of a threat that Wild Pines backs down, so I don't see him de-escalating things before that point
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May 25, 2022 19:43
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I think the only thing that would change without the hanging is that the cops never get called. Even if the Hardy boys dispose of the body quietly, the mercs know that Lely went into the Whirling Rags one night and never came back out, and they aren't the type to let that go unanswered.
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May 25, 2022 19:49
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they're a bunch who do rapemurders and bomb towns at random just to blow off steam; they don't really need a pretext for any scenario where there's nobody holding their leash to inevitably lead to mass killing
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 20:46 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 20:44
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The tribunal felt very inevitable to me. I don't think it can be blamed on individual actors. Rather, the profit motive for wild pines necessitates impoverishing Revachol which leads to union resistance which Wild Pines must suppress. That's just how that relationship works.
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May 25, 2022 21:13
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My take on it was even if the mercenaries were inevitably going to do something she still wildly escalated the situation with the fake-hanging and threw all the people who were trying to help her under the bus the moment it became convenient and nothing she does or says indicates she's not going to continue using and abusing people to keep the feds off her trail for another few months whenever it next becomes expedient. Like the point of Harry's journey is most playthroughs is his recovery and ability to change and improve(?) as a person, nothing Klaasje does or says indicates she's learnt a single thing from the experience and she exits the game the same amoral void of a person if you let her skip out
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May 25, 2022 21:15
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what lesson is Klaasje meant to learn, other than that she should die? Her options are to keep running, which will inevitably cause the powers that be to deflect their murderous energies onto the nearest available target, or to let them kill her, which won't slow the murders one instant. There is no future where sticking with the Hardy Boys means they survive and defeat the Moralintern together, or even get some kind of grand martyrdom for a cause.
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 21:34 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 21:26
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Unlike Harry, she doesn't really have an alternative. The moment she stops acting like that, she is going to die. She came to the Whirling in Rags in the hopes of just... forgetting about that. She almost did, too, and she risked quite a lot by sticking around and putting herself in a situation where she could even possible be arrested, so I don't think its fair to say she hasn't changed at all or that she's a pure void. She's just desperate, more than anything. A redemption arc requires an environment where growth is possible and she finally thought she found one only to have the guy she was with get capped in the dome from a random rear end sniper and suddenly death is right at her doorstep again. And frankly, I let her go because I regardless of what she's done, the people who are after her are not people who should be given what they want.
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May 25, 2022 21:27
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As far as I'm concerned, I did my job. I gave her a station call. Whatever she does after that, well that's up to her.
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May 25, 2022 21:32
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:what lesson is Klaasje meant to learn, other than that she should die? Her options are to keep running, which will inevitably cause the powers that be to deflect their murderous energies onto the nearest available target, or to let them kill her, which won't stop the murders either. There's no future for her which contains a noble cinematic martyrdom, none where bunkering down with the Hardy Boys mean they survive and defeat the Moralintern together. Well honestly, that exactly. She's dug her own grave before the game even starts and keeps burning through anyone she can to avoid facing that reality, even when you make the big Volition check and get the 'real' story out of her it's still just more deflections which throw the person who did the most to help her into life threatening danger. Maybe she should just stop doing that
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May 25, 2022 21:43
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Oxxidation posted:arresting her vs letting her go is one thing, but condemning klassje means condemning harry which means missing the entire point of the game Rigorous Self-Critique posted:Here it is. Hard facts from the man you are. You once jerked off in the locker room and were caught. You held a young woman by the arm and kept her in your apartment for 20 minutes against her will. That's right, these are not flights of fancy. These are *real deeds*, Harry, emerging from the darkness of your past. You tried shooting a fleeing suspect in the foot but hit him in the pelvis, crippling him for life. And above all, you let life defeat you. All the gifts your parents gave you, all the love and patience of your friends, you drowned in a neurotoxin. You let misery win. And it will keep on winning till you die -- or overcome it.
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May 25, 2022 21:44
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GlyphGryph posted:Unlike Harry, she doesn't really have an alternative. The moment she stops acting like that, she is going to die. She came to the Whirling in Rags in the hopes of just... forgetting about that. She almost did, too, and she risked quite a lot by sticking around and putting herself in a situation where she could even possible be arrested, so I don't think its fair to say she hasn't changed at all or that she's a pure void. She's just desperate, more than anything. A redemption arc requires an environment where growth is possible and she finally thought she found one only to have the guy she was with get capped in the dome from a random rear end sniper and suddenly death is right at her doorstep again. Since the deserter was ultimately the decision-maker in the specific sense of 'do I pull the trigger and kill this man, or not,' and he did so out of, if I recall, hatred and frustration and perhaps also jealousy of the beautiful woman being kissed up on by some other guy. While the chain was greater than that, this was an act of the Deserter; a blow against human interconnection. Harry, as the detective arriving on the scene, is not obligated to follow this course; if you help out some random idiots with a trivial task and let them make you stinky, you have a profound moment of transcendent wonder and human connection, which the deserter had been literally sitting right next to for forty years and never comprehending.
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May 25, 2022 21:44
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GlyphGryph posted:Unlike Harry, she doesn't really have an alternative. The moment she stops acting like that, she is going to die. She came to the Whirling in Rags in the hopes of just... forgetting about that. She almost did, too, and she risked quite a lot by sticking around and putting herself in a situation where she could even possible be arrested, so I don't think its fair to say she hasn't changed at all or that she's a pure void. She's just desperate, more than anything. A redemption arc requires an environment where growth is possible and she finally thought she found one only to have the guy she was with get capped in the dome from a random rear end sniper and suddenly death is right at her doorstep again. Oof, She comes to the Whirling Rags and immediately starts having sex with the leaders of the two armed groups in the area, to the point where when one of them dies the other is immediately on hand to help her. Yeah there's real emotion and nihilism there but she is still manipulating everyone around her. She parties to escape her past, but just like Harry she can't help being a human can opener. .
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May 25, 2022 21:49
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She actively ruined other peoples lives for her own profit, and then actively hindered your and everyone else's investigation that could have put a damper on the powderkeg. She shouldn't get blackbagged. but acting like she's some innocent victim with no agency is ridiculous.
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May 25, 2022 21:58
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Every new thing you learn about her makes arresting her a more sensible decision. Until you talk to the sunday friend.
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May 25, 2022 22:01
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Klaasje's done some awful things, but you never know. Maybe this is the time that she really does turn it around. Maybe it's the last apocalyptic bender before Harry gets on the path to recovery. The odds of either are low, but hoping for the hopeless is what being a giant communist sorry cop is all about, right? At least enough to avoid throwing someone under the wheel of the Price Stabilité.
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May 25, 2022 22:04
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If there's hope for Harry, I have to believe there's hope for Klassje. If that makes me an idiot, so be it.
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May 25, 2022 22:08
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My heart tells me that Klassje has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over.
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May 25, 2022 22:10
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YggiDee posted:If there's hope for Harry, I have to believe there's hope for Klassje. If that makes me an idiot, so be it. I mean I think that's one of the three or four bullet point top things you are supposed to take away from the game (or if you make the other decision, to understand the parallel).
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May 25, 2022 22:24
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Are they planning a sequel? If so I actually hope it's not about Harry but set in the same universe. It's such rich worldbuilding it seems wasteful not to explore it from the POV of another hosed up person and his or her deranged internal Greek chorus.
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May 25, 2022 22:28
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It is remarkable how they took 'Homer Simpson arguing with his brain' and turned it into such a rich, faceted and incredibly entertaining mechanic
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May 25, 2022 22:30
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The way I feel about it, letting her go may really only buy her like another week or so before they catch up to her, or maybe it might actually work and she could, ideally, try to change for the better. The Moralintern and anyone related to them have so much on their side, I'm surprised she's even alive in the first place. But gently caress the Moralintern, I figure I may as well give her the head start and whatever happens, happens.
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May 25, 2022 23:02
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Owlbear Camus posted:Are they planning a sequel? i hope its suzerainty
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May 25, 2022 23:14
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Owlbear Camus posted:Are they planning a sequel? They posted jobs for programmers and writers, so they are likely working on something. Unfortunately there's no indication of how soon a new game will be out, which feels like torture because no other game has entranced me like DE.
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May 25, 2022 23:21
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They have never been very coy about a sequel happening. I think the only real substance about it is that they want it to be a Baldur's Gate 2 esque massive increase in content compared to the first game and the occasionally floated pregnant woman playable character concept. This is more my intuition, but I would put a moderate bet down on it being set in jamrock. Realistic expectations wise, I also don't expect to hear much about it for another year or two at least
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May 25, 2022 23:30
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No Dignity posted:Well honestly, that exactly. She's dug her own grave before the game even starts and keeps burning through anyone she can to avoid facing that reality, even when you make the big Volition check and get the 'real' story out of her it's still just more deflections which throw the person who did the most to help her into life threatening danger. Maybe she should just stop doing that yeah Very Important people want her dead and longterm survival is unrealistic, so she should just quit being a silly billy and take one for the team so those important people are not tragically forced to keep hurting others. How come nobody gets that the Sunday Friend is the real protagonist
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May 25, 2022 23:30
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