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Opopanax posted:The Thunderbolt era one gets really good when Soule takes over, you should just skip ahead to that, it's definitely worth reading I do love Soule and Noto. I think it was Daniel Way's stuff that turned me off. And Hoopla has those!
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May 22, 2022 00:39
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You can skip the Way run entirely and miss very little
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May 22, 2022 00:41
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:Hey folks, I have a Thunderbolts question. A third Thunderbolts omni just got announced maybe a week ago, and will cover the end of Nicieza's initial run, New Thunderbolts and I wanna say the tail-end when the title shifts back to Thunderbolts with legacy numbering. I think all of the Nicieza stuff is varying degrees of fun but it caught me at the right time and I have a lot of knee-jerk nostalgia for it. There is a VERY long Counter-Earth arc which is probably an acquired taste.
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May 22, 2022 01:26
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Opopanax posted:You can skip the Way run entirely and miss very little That sadly feels like the standard for most Way runs.
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May 22, 2022 03:41
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I loved T-Bolts 51-75 and was chewing nails when they announced the new direction. Patrick Zircher's art is the bee's rollerskates.
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May 22, 2022 12:30
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:So what I think I'm missing is the chunk between #50 of the original series and the New Thunderbolts rebranding. It looks like that has never been collected, and I know there is an infamous run in there that jettisoned all the ongoing characters and story arcs, about an underground supervillain fight club. Is that as bad as I've heard? Is anything worthwhile in between there? I will stand up for the 'fight club' Thunderbolts arc as being a pretty decent story. Had nothing whatsoever to do with any of the Thunderbolts comics that had come before, mind you, but it was still not too shabby, I thought. Anyways, the bits you missed post v1 #50 were honestly some of my favorite issues of the book. But first I gotta talk about Counter-Earth, which was a big deal at the time - it was being depicted as the world where the Heroes Reborn stories took place, only yanked into our reality, and then Doom conquered it, and then he hosed off for some reason. As a result, the place was a shithole. The Thunderbolts end up there, through shenanigans, and Zemo takes over again, and starts setting about conquering the world... except this time he actually does seem to be doing it to help people. Not in the way that fascists usually go "oh once we're in charge you'll all have food" and then not do that; he's actually feeding people. There's some really quiet, nuanced character work for Zemo in Niciesza's Thunderbolts - Zemo's a terrible person, but he's genuinely trying not to be, which, y'know, is something. I think it's kinda fitting that his last major T-Bolts work was the miniseries Zemo: Born Better, which is basically all about Zemo realizing that this heroic myth his family built up over centuries was a load of dogshit and assessing how that should change his self-image. (it all gets tossed out later when Bucky becomes Captain America, but shh) (that's not entirely fair, I think Brubaker tried to take the Thunderbolts stories into account, but at the end of the day he wanted a straight-up villain so that's what he got) Anyways back on Earth Hawkeye busts out of prison and forms a new Thunderbolts team out of former Masters of Evil, and then back on Counter-Earth Moonstone gets hold of that world's 'equivalent' of the magic rock that gives her powers. I think this is about when the 'actually all the Magic Space Rocks that have created superheroes from Ulysses Bloodstone to the Blue Shield to the Man-Wolf are all linked' idea first shows up, too, but no one else seems to have decided to run with that. Anyways, she's ridonkulously OP now. Hawkeye's T-Bolts do stuff (I don't want to just, like, spoil the stories in case you track down the back issues or something), the original T-Bolts come back to Earth (sans Jolt, who stays behind), everything seems basically okay. Hawkeye goes back to the Avengers. Then there's a mostly-forgotten miniseries titled Avengers/Thunderbolts: The Best Intentions where, uh. A bunch of stuff happens. Iron Man goes undercover as the Cobalt Man and joins the T-Bolts to see what they're up to, which turns out to be 'an off switch for superpowers' that Zemo insists will only be used for stopping bad guys but Stark discovers strange code in the Off Button Device and goes 'nah he's gonna do it to everyone' but wait it turns out it was Moonstone, who's been slowly going nuts from having two power gems, and then there's a big fight and Moonstone ends up kinda lobotomized. None of which is a spoiler for you, because that's how matters stand at the start of New Thunderbolts, which you read; that's why Zemo was waving around a pair of magic space rocks in that book (because they were the two moonstones), et cetera. So basically you missed some stories that I think were pretty good, but which have also mostly been forgotten and/or made inconsequential since then. Which is kinda a shame.
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May 23, 2022 12:16
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SoR Blaze posted:Just wanted to check in on this, does anyone have any ideas? Yeah, seriously if anyone knows please help. I’ve had ‘the on the tip of my tongue’ feeling for days now but can’t quite get it.
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May 23, 2022 16:42
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Is any of the Wildstorm stuff actually integrated in the DCU? I guess Midnighter hung out with Nightwing for a while but I haven't seen anything about Stormwatch in a while. Googling shows me that Fairchild is a clone. Seems like a waste.
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May 25, 2022 16:37
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Superman is in a storyline with Henry Bendix right now. The short answer is "yes, but hardly anyone cares enough to use those characters."
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May 25, 2022 16:46
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Was Superman and the authority not in canon?
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May 25, 2022 16:49
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site posted:Was Superman and the authority not in canon? Oh yeah. TBF I'm reading on DCU so I'm way behind and it comes in drips and drabs.
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May 25, 2022 16:50
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Grifter has been showing up around the margins of the Bat books (Urban Legends, etc.)
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May 25, 2022 17:07
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Endless Mike posted:The short answer is "yes, but hardly anyone cares enough to use those characters." Every now and then I wonder if somebody'll take another stab at Gen13.
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May 25, 2022 23:10
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Dawgstar posted:Every now and then I wonder if somebody'll take another stab at Gen13. I'm absolutely not saying Alan Moore should do it, but it would have to be like when Alan Moore wrote Supreme. Because I'm mostly reading X-Books right now I could see Gillen or Spurrier or Ayala doing something with it.
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May 25, 2022 23:26
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SoR Blaze posted:Just wanted to check in on this, does anyone have any ideas? I thought we had a thread for requests like this, but it's not in the first two pages aside from someone who made a thread for their specific ask. Hopefully someone recognizes the description, because I do not. CopywrightMMXI posted:When did Marvel start referring to their fan base as Marvel Zombies? Only recent history, it was originally a playground taunt in the marvel vs dc fan forever war that Marvel sort of reclaimed with the Marvel Zombies series.
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May 26, 2022 03:03
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Soonmot posted:Only recent history, it was originally a playground taunt in the marvel vs dc fan forever war that Marvel sort of reclaimed with the Marvel Zombies series. Marvel Zombies was used by Marvel to refer to their fans in the 80's. I don't know who started using the term, but Marvel used it for a long time before the Marvel Zombies series came around.
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May 26, 2022 03:19
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Beerdeer posted:Is any of the Wildstorm stuff actually integrated in the DCU? I guess Midnighter hung out with Nightwing for a while but I haven't seen anything about Stormwatch in a while. Googling shows me that Fairchild is a clone. Seems like a waste. Apollo and Midnighter are in the current Action Comics arc (spinning out of Superman and the Authority), Jack Hawksmoor is in Swamp Thing, and I think Grifter's been in the Bat-books relatively recently?
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May 26, 2022 03:20
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How many ongoing comics do the major companies have going at the moment? I notice it's a bit lower since the pandemic etc. Are these wiki pages up to date and correct? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_Marvel_Comics_publications https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_DC_Comics_publications And ballpark how many ongoings do you think Image has, also Dark Horse, IDW, including books that may have a hiatus here and there or slow schedule. Only if that info is easy to find somehow. Also, what years were the peak of number of titles? And is that kind of data around somewhere for over the years? Just curious how comics are doing there.
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May 26, 2022 03:25
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Random Stranger posted:Marvel Zombies was used by Marvel to refer to their fans in the 80's. I don't know who started using the term, but Marvel used it for a long time before the Marvel Zombies series came around. Wow, I do not remember that, but I was also not much of a letter page reader.
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May 26, 2022 03:27
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Heavy Metal posted:How many ongoing comics do the major companies have going at the moment? I notice it's a bit lower since the pandemic etc. I'm not going to compile the data for you, but we have a nine year old thread that lists every single comic comic published each week by pretty much every publisher in this very sub forum. It's even stickeyed.
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May 26, 2022 03:30
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Yep I read that thread, just curious if this particular info was already around somewhere. If those wikis are up to date that'd be something. Sometimes you'll hear somebody say Marvel and DC do 50 ongoings or whatever over the years.
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May 26, 2022 04:01
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Beerdeer posted:Is any of the Wildstorm stuff actually integrated in the DCU? I guess Midnighter hung out with Nightwing for a while but I haven't seen anything about Stormwatch in a while. Googling shows me that Fairchild is a clone. Seems like a waste. I used to be the hugest Wildstorm fan. Sleeper/Point Blank, Wildcats, and Planetary are three of my all-time favorite books. I wish we had gotten a Grifter action figure from Mattel or DC Direct, back when they had the DC license, and not McFarlane. I have wanted a good one for almost 30 years.
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May 26, 2022 04:02
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Skwirl posted:I'm absolutely not saying Alan Moore should do it, but it would have to be like when Alan Moore wrote Supreme. Because I'm mostly reading X-Books right now I could see Gillen or Spurrier or Ayala doing something with it. I remember being excited when Gail Simone took a swing at it, but nothing much came of it. At that time I'm apt to blame DC editorial but who knows.
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May 26, 2022 04:16
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I got a question. What the heck happened to Mile Morales? I followed this character since the beginning. I jump off and he’s completely unrecognizable to me and his book feels meaner. Are people really enjoying this run where miles changes his awesome costume, and hangs out with a non verbal clone of himself?
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May 27, 2022 07:05
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I'm fine with the run for the most part but that costume sucks poo poo.
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May 28, 2022 00:16
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Does anyone know why DC cancelled The Boys? A recent cracked article mentions the Batman parody raping his butler as the last straw. This doesn’t seem right to me.
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Jun 5, 2022 03:26
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I thought it finished?
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Jun 5, 2022 05:20
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King Baby posted:Does anyone know why DC cancelled The Boys? A recent cracked article mentions the Batman parody raping his butler as the last straw. This doesn’t seem right to me. Maybe Cracked was doing a humorous article? It finished and wasn't even DC's comic to cancel, it was Dynamite.
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Jun 5, 2022 05:21
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I think King Baby is talking about the super early days of the comic, when it was published by Wildstorm. I don't know if Ennis or anyone else ever gave a concrete reason why DC dropped the series, but it was almost certainly about content concerns.
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Jun 5, 2022 05:23
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JordanKai posted:I think King Baby is talking about the super early days of the comic, when it was published by Wildstorm. I don't know if Ennis or anyone else ever gave a concrete reason why DC dropped the series, but it was almost certainly about content concerns. I'd completely forgotten about that, my apologies to to the baby king.
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Jun 5, 2022 05:46
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Lol, I had the same thought about it finishing, but I read the Wiki and realized that the first arc was put out by Wildstorm before moving companies. I forgot about that!
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Jun 5, 2022 12:51
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No worries, I’ve been a little ill and still recovering. I noticed that I’ve been making less sense to more people lately. I’ll try to work on that. But until then…I’ve been trying to research this more and got stuck. At the time of release I don’t think I read The Boys. I remember it being quite the talk of board with people either really loving or hating it. I would read about it here and stopped caring once it moved to Dynamite. I always thought Dynamite made ugly trash books regardless of the talent behind them. Look at WANTED. When the series was cancelled at issue 6 I thought it was because of the hamster stuff. I read another article where issues 7 was complete and Derrick had finished up to issue 10 but no specifics as to why it was canceled. Everyone just agrees it was the best decision to switch publishers. They got to keep making the book and didn’t have DC mandating them and that it worked out even better after the Wildstorm line just blew it and would have got the book canceled with the rest of the line.
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Jun 5, 2022 14:54
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Wanted was published by Image/Top Cow, not Dynamite. As for the Boys, I don't think there was one single thing that made them cancel it, though it was canceled after issues 7-10 were solicited, and Ennis/Robertson/et al were all working on those solicited issues. From contemporary Garth Ennis interview in 2007: quote:ENNIS: I think if I were to sum it up in one line, it would be that you can have comics where people do awful things to each other, like Preacher, but you can’t have a comic where super people do awful things to each other, like The Boys, and I think that rather than any specific instances—panels or pages or lines in the story—that was really the problem in a nutshell. When you have comics that—even superficially—look a bit too much like the company’s regular output, and the characters in them are doing the most ghastly things and behaving in the most awful way, and blaspheming and swearing and so on, that creates a real problem. That just will not fly. And that, more than anything else, was what brought an end to The Boys time at DC. This was also a period where "DC Proper" was chipping away at the autonomy of imprints like Wildstorm and Vertigo, so that could have played a background role. The Boys was greenlit at Wildstorm by Scott Dunbier and Ben Abernathy in 2006 and got canceled in January 2007. Within a year Dunbier was gone (moving over to IDW) and Abernathy focused the Wildstorm line on revamping the Wildstorm Superheroes and starting to have them cross over with DC superheroes, and by 2011 the Wildstorm universe/editorial office was absorbed into the DCU proper. A lot of these moves were already in progress when The Boys debuted, with the gradual shedding of creator owned books and continuing attempts at revamping the superheroes/trying out new licensed comics that never really took off. They made a Snakes on a Plane comic the same month that The Boys #1 came out!
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Jun 5, 2022 15:36
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King Baby posted:No worries, I’ve been a little ill and still recovering. I noticed that I’ve been making less sense to more people lately. I’ll try to work on that. I got sick with a fever in my brain that destroyed my ability to remember nouns, so I know how you're feeling!  The book was hit an miss. Seemed to focus on being over the top, which I grew out of in general while it was coming out. A lot of the stories were more about making fun of superheroes than about advancing the plot and I felt it could have been much shorter. I do like the TV adaptation! More focused and adapted to picking on movies instead of comics.
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Jun 5, 2022 15:42
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The way cape movies and Corps are interwoven is handled very well in Boys TV. Like, their Snyder Cut version is just a blatant way to paper over that their key supe was in league with a literal Nazi White Supremacist (while, at the same time, recognizing that Snyder Cut news was very good for the HBO Max brand). I'm hoping their AOC counterpart evolves into either something like "you can't mix corporate interests and politics because they'll fuckin metastasize into every facet of it and kill everything from the inside out" or something.
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Jun 5, 2022 15:49
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Speaking of, what does Dynamite even publish now? just Vampirella and Red Sonja maybe? I feel like that's all I see on the weekly release list as I scroll by.
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Jun 5, 2022 21:43
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Turbinosamente posted:Speaking of, what does Dynamite even publish now? just Vampirella and Red Sonja maybe? I feel like that's all I see on the weekly release list as I scroll by. They usually have some sort of Princess of Mars thing going I think.
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Jun 5, 2022 21:46
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Wow thanks E&C, that really covers everything. I really miss that era (2006 - 2013) when I was an active consumer. So was the idea that regular DC stuff stayed with the main line? Wildstorm takes all the weird Superhero books like The Boys, Ex Machina, and Welcome to Tranquility? Vertigo gets the rest of the pulpy magic, Sci/fi, YA stuff like Y the last man, Fables, and The Northmen?
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Jun 6, 2022 19:56
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I recently saw a couple of pages from an old Wizard magazine where they talked about manga with then-current comics creators and one of the questions they asked stood out to me because I’ve been thinking about for a while: how is manga different from American comics? I don’t mean this as a discussion of quality or distribution method as much as looking at the finished products and seeing how they differ. One creator said that manga often is a lot less wordy than American comics, which I’ve had a feeling of for a while but I can’t say whether that’s true or not; I just don’t read enough American comics to compare. I often feel that the writing and art aren’t exactly in sync in American comics but I don’t have any examples on hand to really back that up. Another said that manga has more detailed backgrounds and I can’t help but feel that’s the opposite of true! A lot of manga I’ve read is pretty willing to do a little to establish the scene and then have the backgrounds just be blank space with the focus on the characters, while the coloring of modern comics often necessitates backgrounds get drawn in. My general impression with manga is that there’s a greater focus on characters’ faces while comics typically have a bit more focus on the characters’ body language/stance, having the “camera” be pulled farther out. I think action manga also tend to put a bit more focus into the choreography of a fight, being more willing to have a fight drag on multiple issues while American comics want to keep the story moving. Obviously manga is almost always in black and white while comics are in color which leads to different methods of communicating things like texture and the like. Sorry for the really long post. It’s just something I’ve been ruminating on for a while. Am I just making things up? Obviously different ecosystems are going to make different things but are my ideas just dumb? I’d love to see you folks’ thoughts on the matter
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Jun 7, 2022 16:50
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There was an article I read awhile ago comparing action pacing of American comics vs. Japanese manga and I'm not sure where it was (might have even been something David Brothers wrote?). There's a definite difference in how panels are laid out. Manga is generally better at laying out pages so it's obvious how panels are supposed to be read (provided you understand reading right to left) - like, actual panel sizes and gutters are deliberately set up to direct reading. American comics aren't necessarily as good at this, and it's definitely not a specific medium convention.
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Jun 7, 2022 17:49
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