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Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Hiro Protagonist posted:

Thanks, I think that'll help some. It just feels like it's getting harder to be empathetic and kind in this world. I know other practitioners have lived through much worse with much more empathy, but it sometimes feels impossible. But distancing myself is really all I can do.

you probably know this, but there are sects of buddhism that explicitly state that it's impossible to become enlightened in this corrupt world. so the best you can do is to seek rebirth in the pure land to become enlightened the next go-around. chant the nembutsu and do your best

this isn't really a recommendation for you to give up and chant nembutsu. i just think it's cool that there's well-respected schools that are like "yeah, no, that's a huge problem and you're not alone in it."

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Cephas
May 11, 2009

Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!

Hiro Protagonist posted:

Lately I've been feeling like the part of practice that was somewhat easier for me, empathy, is increasingly hard. I just feel like I'm developing this swirling vertex of pure hatred as I see more and more news. It seems that the GOP has just decided cruelty for cruelty's sake is it's main platform, and these pro-life, pro-gun, anti-vax assholes get more and more power and there's nothing I can do. I'm getting to the point I have a physical reaction of disgust when I hear right-wing party rhetoric. Loving-Kindness Meditation feels like I'm lying, and I can't separate the person from the ignorance anymore. Have other people felt like that? What has helped?

I don't know if this will necessarily resonate with you, but it's something I've had to grapple with. I consider myself someone who is quite open-minded to opinions and viewpoints different from my own. But I've also had to bear a lot of homophobic, transphobic, racist, and misogynistic rhetoric during my time on various internet forums. What used to hurt the most about hate speech was how unsound and senseless it was. I would pour tremendous mental effort into trying to find the right words, the right argument, to sway some internet troll's opinion. I think this is because, acting in good faith, I considered the troll's opinion to be a reasoned argument that I had to disprove in order to have faith in my own viewpoints. This was spiritually exhausting work for no payoff.

At some point I encountered this quote by Sartre, which I think is very illuminating.

quote:

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

I think there is a connection between what Sartre says about bad faith and what Buddha says about doubt and faith.

quote:

Yes, Kālāmas, it is proper that your have doubt, that you have perplexity, for a doubt has arisen in a matter which is doubtful. Now, look you Kālāmas, do not be led by reports, or traditions, or hearsay. Be not led by the authority of religious texts, not by the delight in speculative opinions, nor by seeming possibilities, not by the idea: 'this is our teacher'. But, O Kālāmas, when you know for yourself that certain things are unwholesome, and wrong, and bad, then give them up... And when you know for yourself that certain things are wholesome and good, then accept them and follow them.

A lot of the suffering I have experienced dealing with assholes has arisen from a sense of doubt inside myself. "As a trans person, am I a threat to children? Of course I, wanting to protect my ego, would not think I am, but maybe these conservative parents see something I do not." Doubts like that could creep inside of me about every position the alt-right has to proffer. But we know their arguments are not logical arguments. I know that I care deeply about the wellbeing of children and that transphobic laws are harmful to children, not beneficial. In other words, I know that I am acting in good faith and that the trolls are acting in bad faith, because "they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert."

Knowing, then, that the trolls and alt-right ghouls are acting in bad faith, I must follow Buddha's teaching. "When you know for yourself that certain things are unwholesome, and wrong, and bad, then give them up... And when you know for yourself that certain things are wholesome and good, then accept them and follow them."

What this means is: take faith in your convictions. As long as you are a thoughtful, considerate, and mindful individual, seeking to save all beings and vowing not to harm anyone, take faith in your convictions. We know there are hungry ghosts and hell beings and asuras, and yet they deserve to be saved as well. Even mosquitos who carry malaria and plague-bearing rats have Buddha nature. We are living in an era of destructive, contagious ideas, and many people have caught those ideas. But saving a deluded individual, or extending loving-kindness to a deluded individual, does not mean indulging their delusions.

Their rhetoric is born of ignorance, hatred, and greed. We know these are the three poisons. We know that for ourselves and for all beings, enlightenment requires extinguishing the three poisons. So what is there to be disgusted by? This is the same work that there has always been.

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!
I will also add, since you mentioned specifically that loving-kindness meditation feels inauthentic to you and that you are having trouble separating people from their ignorance. One way that I've practiced loving-kindness meditation that has helped me feel less hate toward people is by trying to visualize them having a moment of true, authentic happiness that they could really achieve in their life.

The example I can give in my own personal experience was meditating on loving-kindness with my mother, whom I've had to cut off all contact with.

I cannot imagine her winning the lottery, or feasting on a delicious meal, and achieving any kind of true, authentic happiness, because these are fleeting and impermanent.

I cannot imagine her having a moment of great peace and clarity by just stepping outside and feeling love toward the world. And I cannot imagine her, for instance, seeing a snail on a leaf and wishing it well. These would be true, authentic forms of happiness but they are not things I think are available as sources of joy in her life.

So I imagine her going about her day. She opens the door. She steps into her car. She goes shopping. The girl at the cash register asks what she's making tonight with the ingredients that she's bought. I imagine my mother saying she is going to make kimchi. The cashier says she has heard kimchi is good and would like to try it. My mother tells her, next time I come by I will bring you some.

This is just a simple visualization exercise. But it is very powerful for me, because it allows me to see a path toward some form of goodness and wholesomeness that is available in my mother's life. Even though she hurt me, and I have had to cut off contact with her because she would continue to harm me, I can still feel loving-kindness toward her because I am able to see a path toward her obtaining some goodness in her life. So I cannot think of her as an all-bad person.

If only she could experience this goodness in more things in her life. If only opening the door could bring her goodness, and stepping into the car, and going shopping. If only she could obtain goodness in all these things, in every breath of her life. Loving-kindness.

I think this approach can work for politicians, too. I felt so much hate for Donald Trump during his presidency. I had to stop and meditate on loving kindness to quench that hate. What would loving-kindness look like in his life? It would not be fame, or power, or money, or approval. Loving-kindness would slip in through the cracks. But I have to believe it could slip in. Everyone can experience a moment of true, authentic happiness. If you can find a chance at true happiness for a person, then how could you hate them? You would just wish them well instead--wish them truly well, to find authentic and enduring happiness. Now instead of hating them for their faults, you wish them the wisdom to make their life better, so that goodness can fill all of their life. To extend loving-kindness is not the same thing as being permissive.

I hope some of this makes sense. It is something I am still trying to figure out for myself.

Virgil Vox
Dec 8, 2009

Extending lovingkindess to difficult beings is a challenge but like most gets easier when practiced often. It's like re-wiring and shorting the emotional grudge part of your brain. I may or may not add anything else to this I am not good with words but I will think on it, excellent posts Cephas!

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
Good posts in here over the past couple days, thanks everyone for sharing

Red Dad Redemption
Sep 29, 2007

Cephas posted:

Thank you for your feedback. I read it and really appreciated it. That koan is interesting to me. I have noticed that many koan take the form of someone being corrected on their mistaken views of attainment. That is something I always take very seriously--in fact, it makes me uneasy to hear that attainment is possible and certifiable at all. But I suppose that unease is partially aversion and will eventually go away.

I had a dream the other night. In the dream, I was visiting my childhood elementary school. I saw the big tree in the middle of the school's field. I was suddenly struck with the realization that, for the decade I had been at that school, I had never once appreciated the tree or gotten to know it. I decided to climb the tree and embrace it and enter a deep state of communion with the tree to make up for lost time. But before I could enter a deep state of communion, I had to eat a special piece of candy that was supposed to spiritually prepare me. I unfolded the piece of candy from its wrapper and took a bite. Surprised and distraught, I said, "What? This candy tastes like nothing." Then I woke up, and I realized I had slept through my alarm and would be late for work.

Cephas, are do you still practice in the Soto tradition? Because if so, I might recommend you check out Shinji Shobogenzo. There's a full translation by Nishijima available and it's an amazing koan collection.

I also find myself rereading Genjokoan again and again (along with other selections from the Treasury) but obviously that's a rather different form (though the collection is replete with embedded koans).

LuckyCat
Jul 26, 2007

Grimey Drawer
I have found success with mudita meditation- sympathetic joy or imagining and feeling the success of others! It is challenging but it’s allowed me to grow my connection and love to others, including strangers.

Virgil Vox
Dec 8, 2009

LuckyCat posted:

sympathetic joy or imagining and feeling the success of others!

Is Mudita the Pali word for this? I don't think there's a common english equivalent which may be telling of its society lol. Perhaps related to lovingkindess on enemies I have been working on mentally checking myself for immediately wishing ill will or bad thoughts on beings that my old self would say "deserved it or needed justice". It def helps later on the line thinking of them with loveingkindess cause you broke that initial negative association.

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.


Virgil Vox posted:

Is Mudita the Pali word for this? I don't think there's a common english equivalent which may be telling of its society lol. Perhaps related to lovingkindess on enemies I have been working on mentally checking myself for immediately wishing ill will or bad thoughts on beings that my old self would say "deserved it or needed justice". It def helps later on the line thinking of them with loveingkindess cause you broke that initial negative association.

there's not a common english equivalent of samvega either which is something almost everyone experiences every day in this society right now

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!

Red Dad Redemption posted:

Cephas, are do you still practice in the Soto tradition? Because if so, I might recommend you check out Shinji Shobogenzo. There's a full translation by Nishijima available and it's an amazing koan collection.

I also find myself rereading Genjokoan again and again (along with other selections from the Treasury) but obviously that's a rather different form (though the collection is replete with embedded koans).

I've actually been needing to find a sangha now that social restrictions are becoming a bit loosened, so I can't say that I'm quite part of one tradition or another. But I do find Soto to be a very natural fit for me. Thank you for the recommendation! Dogen has been on my to-read list for a while now, especially after reading some of Ruth Ozeki's writing. I will have to sit down with Shobogenzo.

BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

there's not a common english equivalent of samvega either which is something almost everyone experiences every day in this society right now

Cephas fucked around with this message at 01:10 on May 27, 2022

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


great posts all

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



LuckyCat posted:

I have found success with mudita meditation- sympathetic joy or imagining and feeling the success of others! It is challenging but it’s allowed me to grow my connection and love to others, including strangers.
This is interesting, is there a routine or more detailed explanation? I would be interested.

Gonna go sit, will post trip report, ama

Red Dad Redemption
Sep 29, 2007

Cephas posted:

I've actually been needing to find a sangha now that social restrictions are becoming a bit loosened, so I can't say that I'm quite part of one tradition or another. But I do find Soto to be a very natural fit for me. Thank you for the recommendation! Dogen has been on my to-read list for a while now, especially after reading some of Ruth Ozeki's writing. I will have to sit down with Shobogenzo.

Apologies if you’re already aware, but just in case (because it can be confusing): Shinji Shobogenzo is a koan collection, whereas Shobogenzo is a massive collection of essays. The latter is amazing but demands a lot of reflection and may be opaque at first. I can recommend a translation if you’d like.

For an initial but no less meaningful bit of Dogen I’d recommend How To Cook Your Life (brief but superb) and Opening the Hand of Thought (not Dogen but very useful).

As for a sangha, until you can find something local, I heartily recommend Ancient Dragon Zen Gate online. Taigen is a prolific scholar and a wonderful person, and I listen to his dharma talks (and read his work) whenever I can.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


Virgil Vox
Dec 8, 2009

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



I forgot to post the trip report:

Nothing happened; it was great. Though it's possible I dozed off...

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.



LuckyCat
Jul 26, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Nessus posted:

This is interesting, is there a routine or more detailed explanation? I would be interested.

Gonna go sit, will post trip report, ama

This is me being vulnerable and exposing one of the many ways I am a lovely person (I know it would be better to say I'm in progress, as we all are), but I've noticed sometimes that I get jealous of the success of others or if someone who I don't necessarily get along with achieves success it makes me feel bad things rather than good things. As a result, when I feel those moments popping up, I settle into imagining how they must feel (good) and just sitting in that feeling with concentration on them.

I have a coworker who doesn't like me and he's also my senior, and I mostly work remote. When we have a meeting where he calls me out on a suggestion I make or an opinion I voice it frustrates me. He also gets recognized by leadership quite a bit. I do this a lot with him. The result is I'm feeling less resentment and, at the moment, more neutral- but working toward radiating love inward and outward toward him.

Oftentimes I do this while chanting the name of Ram or "om hanumate namah" but you can Buddhify it to your liking!

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
Friend of mine raised the following question:

"Question for the observant folks in the room:

In Judaism, a Bracha Levatala (blessing in vain) is forbidden per the Torah. It is roughly equivalent to taking Christ's or the Lord's name in vain.

A practical application of this would be "thoughts and prayers" whenever these mass murders take place -- if you're not actually doing anything about the problem, then the act of prayer itself is purely performative, and thus a sin.

Is there an equivalent concept in Buddhism, Catholicism, Hinduism, or Islam (listed alphabetically -- apologies if any majors were missed)?"

To which I *think* I'm pretty sure buddhism has bans on well-wishing and encouraging platitudes not followed by right action - but I don't know. What is your take?

for fucks sake
Jan 23, 2016

The way I understand it there's not really any "bans" on things outside the five precepts, which are themselves a bit context-dependent depending on who you ask. Disclaimer: I'm coming at this from an Early Buddhist perspective and I can't speak for later schools.

In this case I think it would be something like lacking right view - the idea that "thoughts and prayers" can help to reduce suffering - lead to incorrect action and incorrect speech. The idea being that developing right view will lead automatically to right speech and right action without having to have lots of rules to cover different situations.

On the other hand loving-kindness practice is kind of similar to "thoughts and prayers", but the acknowledged intention there is to develop compassion within yourself, rather than deluding yourself into thinking it alone actually makes a difference.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
That is exactly what I was thinking. Thanks!

LuckyCat
Jul 26, 2007

Grimey Drawer
I came across this story from a Hindu perspective:

”Sri Sathya Sai Baba” posted:


A devotee of Hanumaan was once driving a cartload of grain to the market. On the way, the wheel got stuck and the cart could not be drawn forward by the bullocks. The cart slanted too far to one side and the bags fell on the ground. The devotee sat on the ground and started reciting the Sthothras, the 108 names and even the 1008 names. The cart did not regain balance. He began to blame Hanumaan and started reviling him for not coming to his rescue. Hanumaan appeared but only to remind him "Foolish fellow; You are reviling me for not doing the job what is really your task. Come On! Put your shoulder; engage in karma; contribute purusha prayaithana (individual effort)." You have no right to seek the intervention of the Lord without using all the talents awarded to you in a prayerful and humble mood.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



You can certainly entreat the bodhisattvas and deities for aid and guidance, however I think the difference between this and the Christian-flavored folk religion practiced by American Republican politicians is that there is none of the implicit, "oh, we have no control, none of this is our control, God decides, spare us/thank you/we accept the children you took from us."

Buddhism has no singular Author of the Universe, which makes a lot of things easier i m o.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Tias posted:

Friend of mine raised the following question:

"Question for the observant folks in the room:

In Judaism, a Bracha Levatala (blessing in vain) is forbidden per the Torah. It is roughly equivalent to taking Christ's or the Lord's name in vain.

A practical application of this would be "thoughts and prayers" whenever these mass murders take place -- if you're not actually doing anything about the problem, then the act of prayer itself is purely performative, and thus a sin.

Is there an equivalent concept in Buddhism, Catholicism, Hinduism, or Islam (listed alphabetically -- apologies if any majors were missed)?"

To which I *think* I'm pretty sure buddhism has bans on well-wishing and encouraging platitudes not followed by right action - but I don't know. What is your take?

Zen in particular has a big emphasis on actually hiding practice, both symbolically as well as quite literally as a way of more or less completely avoiding performative practice. Hell, one of the soto lineage poems has the exhortation 'with practice hidden function secretly'.

On a broader level yeah there are some performative religious bits of buddhism that don't necessarily hold up great under scrutiny, yet they also persist because of a lot of cultural inertia. The animals raised for people to symbolically release are one of the most conspicuous examples and the life release stuff is really widespread. Like a lot of things, the intention seems great: save an animal that was destined for slaughter and release it to live its life. In reality this has of course led to farms popping up specifically to breed animals to be bought by people to be released, which of course is hugely missing the point. Depending on the animals released, there are significant further ecological impacts, too.

The practice of thai monks of selling ivory charms as magical protective trinkets is another one that has had some pretty obviously destructive effects.

Generally though it's what for gently caress's sake says and all actions can be evaluated by the harm they do or the benefit they bring and if some practice or devotional activity or really any behavior or speech is causing harm and little or no benefit, then it's not dharma. The potential for harm is really key here. Something simply being useless and mildly misleading is, you know, not good and is strictly speaking delusion (mara), but it's when harm is being done to a being that it becomes something to proactively stop. On the one hand, a protective magical trinket on its own doesn't do much harm, who really cares. On the other hand, all delusion should be avoided. Before you know it people are looking for more powerful and more precious stuff to make their trinkets out of and next thing you know monks are importing hundreds of elephants worth of ivory directly from poachers. So even a small little delusion can grow to have an outsized impact.

Ramie
Mar 2, 2021

i'm reading Shinji Shobogenzo now and drat. i want to keep reading but my brain keeps getting full of thoughts every few pages. there's getting tired, i know what having a tired brain or confused or overwhelmed brain feels like, but this book just plain puts my brain in a chokehold. i'll be poring over this one for ages.

i'm not sure if delving into different branches of Buddhism is recommended so early on, but i'm reading the aforementioned while re-reading The Heart of the Buddha's teaching, and meditating, of course. i'm noticing some marked increases in proficiency compared to a month previous, though the peace i felt during this morning's session might be in part due to watching Everything Everywhere All At Once yesterday. hell of a movie y'all.

i'm also reading The One-Straw Revolution, initially intending to read it just for its value to someone of my profession, but imagine my surprise when i got hit with Surprise Buddhism


quote:

The tragedy is that in their unfounded arrogance, people attempt to bend nature to their will. Human beings can destroy natural forms, but they cannot create them. Discrimination, a fragmented and incomplete understanding, always forms the starting point of human knowledge. Unable to know the whole of nature, people can do no better than to construct an incomplete model of it and then delude themselves into thinking that they have created something natural.
All someone has to do to know nature is to realize that he does not really know anything, that he is unable to know anything. It can then be expected that he will lose interest in discriminating knowledge. When he abandons discriminating knowledge, non-discriminating knowledge of itself arises within him. If he does not try to think about knowing, if he does not care about understanding, the time will come when he will understand. There is no other way than through the destruction of the ego, casting aside the thought that humans exist apart from heaven and earth.
"This means being foolish instead of being smart," I snapped at a young fellow who had a wise look of complacency on his face. "What kind of look is that in your eyes? Foolishness comes out looking smart. Do you know for sure whether you're smart or foolish, or are you trying to become a foolish-type smart guy? You can't become smart, can't become foolish, stuck at a standstill. Isn't that where you are now?"
Before I knew it I was angry with myself for repeating the same words over and over again, words which could never match the wisdom of remaining silent, words I myself could not understand.
The autumn sun was sinking low on the horizon. Twilight colors approached the foot of the old tree. With the light from the Inland Sea at their backs, the silent youths returned slowly to the huts for their evening meal. I followed quietly behind in the shadows.

calling it a suprise is misleading i suppose, the book is completely suffused in this kind of thinking. a worthwhile read for anyone who wants to see someone doing the whole Right Livelihood thing, and pretty well, too.

Ramie fucked around with this message at 00:08 on May 31, 2022

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!
I think I've reached a point where I can consistently reach the first jhana. I think last night, I was right on the cusp of the second jhana?

I focused on my breathing, until it became very shallow and quiet, and then I noticed a tingling sensation at the top of my head and focused on that sensation rather than on my breathing. I felt the tingling become amplified, and it took the form of waves of intense, euphoric pleasure washing from my head down to my toes. It was pleasurable, akin to sexual pleasure, but effervescent and directionless, without the strong sense of grasping that sex brings (to me, at least). The pleasure would come, and linger for a while, then dissipate, and I would find myself again with my subtle breath, and would repeat the process of finding a tingling spot in my body and focusing on it again and recapture the sense of pleasure. It was as the writing on jhanas describes it--there was a background noise of internal mental chatter. Eventually, as if the high tide had rolled away for the day, there were no more waves worth chasing, so I found my mind increasingly quiet and empty. It was like the waves of pleasure had washed the shore clean of debris. I think I had been meditating for about 20 minutes without even realizing it.

I was initially quite skeptical of jhana meditation, because I did not understand the purpose of chasing a pleasurable altered state of consciousness; it sounded like masturbation. I think now that I've experienced what I think is the first jhana, it makes sense to me. The pleasure on its own teaches you two things. The first is that deep, euphoric pleasure can arise naturally without anything outside of yourself, without need of money or prestige or drugs. The second and more important thing it teaches, I am beginning to think, is that it is like a microcosm. You attain impermanent pleasure, and your instinct is to chase it, but eventually you realize that pleasure isn't everything, and you are able to reside contentedly in silence.

I am starting to feel like I'm getting out of my depth, though--I feel like once I'm meditating to achieve altered states of consciousness, I should probably have a teacher to fall back on. I also found it interesting that even though I had such a strong meditative experience right before I went to sleep, I ended up having a pretty lovely nightmare last night. So a bit of jhanic experience is definitely not some kind of miraculous panacea lol

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



That sounds like a great experience, but I would agree that you would probably want to consult some kind of teacher. I am unsure if you're following a particular tradition but what I have read has said that things like this are lovely to find but they can, themselves, become attachments.

Nonetheless it is really awesome to hear that you reached that space, and that it's more or less exactly as described in the old texts.

Beowulfs_Ghost
Nov 6, 2009
There definitely are people who get hooked on the buzz of altered states of mind. Youtube is full of people offering guided meditations chasing after what they see as free hits of DMT.

If you stay grounded in the dharma, the shine of these states wears off pretty quickly. They are yet another phenomenon that arises and passes away. They have a utility of being a sort of sign post. And many people state these sort of experiences as what really set them on the path, because it was an undeniable experience that there was something to this whole meditation thing.

CestMoi
Sep 16, 2011

i'm currently trying to turn vague awareness of certain buddhist concepts and extremely intermittent "gently caress my brain needs to calm down" meditation/basically just breathing exercises into actual concerted practice and this thread has been very helpful, informative, and inspiring for that so thank you all very much. furthermore, hi bilirubin

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


CestMoi posted:

i'm currently trying to turn vague awareness of certain buddhist concepts and extremely intermittent "gently caress my brain needs to calm down" meditation/basically just breathing exercises into actual concerted practice and this thread has been very helpful, informative, and inspiring for that so thank you all very much. furthermore, hi bilirubin

salut ce'st moi!

welcome :)

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Welcome fellow goon (bhikgoon?)

I had a sad moment which made me feel how even my questionable practice has impacted me. I swatted a big flying bug that wandered into my quarters and I immediately thought: Oh, gosh, why did I go and do THAT? The poor thing. It was quick, I suppose; I tried to say a mantra on its behalf. But it stood out to me later because I have casually swatted similar amounts of insects in the past, in the same circumstances, and thought nothing of it...

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
I try not to mess with bugs in the house too much, but when we go up north the black flies and mosquitos are a menace. I know it's their territory and they're just trying to eat but I don't have the compassion to let them feast on me.

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!
I've done that before. There was a little drainfly crawling around my sink and I turned the faucet on to full blast to drown it and wash it away. Immediately thought "that was cruel and automatic, why did I do that?" Although, with those drain flies, I do feel obligated to protect the space I am renting from them, so I have no choice but to kill them when they appear. But it was the immediacy and thoughtlessness with which I killed it that made me sad. With other insects, I try to capture them and relocate them outside whenever possible.

One of the things that's helped me get over an aversion to insects is to start thinking of them as cute friends. Like "oh hey, little buddy, how did you get over here?" "This is a high level dungeon, let me help you find your way out of here." "I don't mind that you took a little nibble of me, I hope you're full."

for your own health you don't want to just let insects eat you up, since through no fault of their own they often carry disease. but if an insect does bite or sting you, it is often out of hunger or fear.

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!
Could I get some perspective on a pesky feeling I'm encountering?

I have a friend I love very much. I've known her for a long time and loved her for a long time. I get butterflies in my stomach whenever I'm around her. She is not interested in having a romantic relationship with me. Part of my mind can accept this, but another part cannot. When I am around her, I feel happy to be in her company, but when I leave, I feel an immense wave of sadness wash over me as I start wishing I could be with her. I wish I could clear my mind of any desire, attachment, aversion, or dissatisfaction I find in my friendship with her--that my love could truly just be loving-kindness born of agape. But I also get this strong feeling that if I could, I would burn up any good karma I had if it meant she could feel the same way I feel toward her.

She lives in the city where I went to college. She and a few of my other old classmates still live in that city. So now and then I head over and visit, and usually spend a night or two over at her place while we all catch up.

I have had other friends tell me that I'm foolish for still spending time with her when it causes me pain. But she is a kind and positive person, and we enjoy each other's company. I know she cares about me and appreciates our friendship, even though she does not have the same feelings as me. So I don't want to abandon that friendship.

How do I develop a mind of equanimity toward someone I have feelings for? I want to be a bodhisattva who can save all beings, so how can I deal with this feeling of "I would gladly burn up all my good karma if only she would love me"?

Edit: I should add that I don't think about her often in my day to day life. She invited me to visit for a pride event in town that I hadn't been able to attend since the pandemic started, so I saw her for the first time in a long time. As I've gotten older, I've become better at not clinging to this romantic desire. But I have to recognize that the feeling is still present, and is powerful. It makes me feel like I've temporarily lost my internal composure. I just want to continue developing metta toward her and others in my life, and weaken any clinging desire for selfish gain.

Cephas fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jun 5, 2022

Virgil Vox
Dec 8, 2009

Personally I have found romantic attraction one of the easiest desires to tame. I figured I was only wasted time; esp with porn, apps, and never wanted to have kids, and now with covid I'll never meet anyone ever lol. Spend time meditating instead of self pleasure, dharma talk on yotube instead of sort by new prnhub, and honestly now I've basically lost all desire for sex and even intimate relationships. Or maybe im just getting older lmao. And this also may not help if you've already smitten.

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
that doesn't sound at all desirable lol

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
On the other hand, porn addiction is super unpleasant and painful, so perhaps that is choosing the lesser of two bad attractions.

LuckyCat
Jul 26, 2007

Grimey Drawer
I’ll channel e/n here a little bit but sometimes the best thing you can do to break the cycle of attachment/romantic love is to sever for a period. If you know it’s bringing you suffering and can’t seem to find a way to stop feeling that way, you could try distancing yourself until those feelings are under control before returning to the friendship under new dharmic light.

Another option that has been discussed in this thread is meditation of sympathetic joy. Meditating imagining and feeling the joy she will have when she meets the one, and the joy the other person will feel meeting her.

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!

LuckyCat posted:

I’ll channel e/n here a little bit but sometimes the best thing you can do to break the cycle of attachment/romantic love is to sever for a period. If you know it’s bringing you suffering and can’t seem to find a way to stop feeling that way, you could try distancing yourself until those feelings are under control before returning to the friendship under new dharmic light.

Another option that has been discussed in this thread is meditation of sympathetic joy. Meditating imagining and feeling the joy she will have when she meets the one, and the joy the other person will feel meeting her.

Thanks. I honestly thought for sure that the two years of not seeing her during the pandemic would be enough to get those feelings totally settled, but I guess it was more like, it got them about 75% settled. Last night, when I was thinking about why my visit to see her had made me so emotional, I kind of figured what you suggested might be the way to go, too. I do look forward to the day she meets the right person, but I have been afraid of really sitting with that and meditating on it. That probably is the right thing to do.

On another topic, I attended a livestream of my local Drikung Kagyu temple's service this morning. I'm not totally familiar with some of the Tibetan meditation practices, but one student's question was about jhana meditation and navigating the feeling of meditative bliss without becoming attached to it. The monk's response was basically that, blissful meditative states are like bus stops on the way to enlightenment, but they aren't enlightenment itself. So it's important to integrate dharma practice and studies into your everyday life, so you can gain the clarity to not confuse the bus stops for the destination.

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Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>
I'm not going to tell anyone who to do with their sex lives, but as long as you aren't engaging in any kind of sexual misconduct, please do have a sex life and a masturbation life and don't repress biological urges and needs for physical intimacy and stuff cuz that's never a recipe for anything good. There's really nothing about that at all in buddhism as a lay person, I promise you.

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