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John Murdoch posted:This won't make you feel much better, but IIRC you can use the Lamp of Time to freeze the water geyser attack in place and just swim up it like a normal chunk of water. Yeah but if you do that you can’t use the lamp (a one shot item before recharging) to freeze the falling pot so you have a reasonable place to jump from that isn’t spikes. I actually did it by killing mini boss and then bouncing myself off one of the stupid flying gremlins to get up to the item room It took probably 10 hours of play time to pull off and I just put on a podcast in the background and zoned out Also I actually completed all of the things I complained about. The chain whip thing made me quit last time I tried playing this game and this time I somehow did it on my first try. It SUCKS though and there are probably a half dozen other moments in the game that are just as bad. I didn’t even attempt Hell Temple Frank Frank has a new favorite as of 04:44 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 04:41
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Frank Frank posted:I didn’t even attempt Hell Temple Hell Temple is very explicitly there for masochism's sake. You play it if you want to be subjected to lethal practical jokes. The equivalent zone in La Mulana 2 came out recently (like, within the last 6 months) as DLC. It's considerably less mean-spirited, but still incredibly dangerous and arbitrary. At multiple points during his run, Mikan died and said "I paid $5 for this!" with absolutely no regret in his voice.
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May 27, 2022 04:49
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Hell Temple is very explicitly there for masochism's sake. You play it if you want to be subjected to lethal practical jokes. I have had enough of La Mulana’s sense of humor so one of the few things I looked up was what the reward was for completing Hell Temple and the entire thing is a troll designed to piss off the player with no reward at all and I’m not gonna 100% the game anyway so fuuuck that. The thing about La Mulana’s “sense of humor” is that it likes stabbing you in the face with no warning/no logical way to prevent it so unless you find instant game overs hilarious, it may not be your thing. It absolutely IS my thing to a point but I draw the line at whatever Hell Temple is. More specifically, the reward for hell temple is: A bikini which the anime waifu in the game hints that she will wear (since her father designed it) only when you finally get it, she refuses and instead your weird sweaty middle aged dude just says “gently caress it” and he wears it for the rest of the game. Definitely funny but consider that actually getting this item would probably take you somewhere between 20-40 hours of gameplay if you can do it at all. The item also has no effect on gameplay and doesn’t unlock anything Frank Frank has a new favorite as of 05:09 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 05:01
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Also I gotta mention that the first area in La mulana 2 has you murdering very obviously off-brand Pokemon to the point where I’m not sure how they got away with it. So far there are obvious pikachus, nidorans and (I guess) zubats
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May 27, 2022 05:05
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Frank Frank posted:I have had enough of La Mulana’s sense of humor so one of the few things I looked up was what the reward was for completing Hell Temple and the entire thing is a troll designed to piss off the player with no reward at all and I’m not gonna 100% the game anyway so fuuuck that. IIRC in the remake you can at least equip the sling bikini on Lemeza and watch him jump around in it, it even changes his pause screen animation
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May 27, 2022 05:15
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Ghost Leviathan posted:IIRC in the remake you can at least equip the sling bikini on Lemeza and watch him jump around in it, it even changes his pause screen animation That is not enough for me to suffer through that horseshit.
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May 27, 2022 05:18
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I want to stress that when I beat the game today, I went and took a look at the achievements and the clear rate for this game that was released in 2012(?) is 9.9%. There’s a “hard mode” I’m not going to even touch. It’s sub-3%. The % for people who make it past the first boss is something like 30%. It’s insane. Frank Frank has a new favorite as of 05:21 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 05:19
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I got to say that game doesn't sound very fun
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May 27, 2022 05:21
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Opopanax posted:I got to say that game doesn't sound very fun Only one way to find out.
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May 27, 2022 05:22
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Opopanax posted:I got to say that game doesn't sound very fun It's incredibly fun
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May 27, 2022 05:24
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Opopanax posted:I got to say that game doesn't sound very fun It is fun in a similar way to how Getting Over It is fun. Which is to say that, for most people, it isn't.
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May 27, 2022 05:24
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:It is fun in a similar way to how Getting Over It is fun. I will say this again and I really can’t stress it enough, the music is incredibly good and is more than enough reason to keep playing. I forget what I paid for the box set but I definitely got my money’s worth. The game has a charm associated with old-school NES games like Legacy of the Wizard you will not find on modern consoles. It’s a flawed but extremely brilliant experience that is so far and above anything that came out of the 8-bit (16 for the remake) era that it will absolutely knock your socks off if you really invest in it. This is a game that encourages you to take screenshots, log NPC conversations and keep a paper journal. If that isn’t your thing then maybe skip it but it’s immersive in a way that no other game I have ever played has been and although it took me a decade to beat it and I loathe it on some level, I will probably play it again and I’m glad it exists. As much as I poo poo on the game, it kept me coming back for over a decade across multiple platforms just to beat it. Frank Frank has a new favorite as of 05:38 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 05:32
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Also lmao at the continuity between games. The village elder who lived in a straw hut outside the ruins in the first game has now built himself an actual castle in the middle of the amazon using tourist money and surrounded himself with what appear to be porn stars Good for you, Elder Xelpud
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May 27, 2022 06:03
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La-Mulana is one of those games that's made around evoking an extremely specific era of nostalgia- the MSX, to be precise. It's a lot more obvious in the original freeware game where the collectibles are MSX games and there's even a whole area that's just Maze of Galius. (and another bit that's a riff on Snatcher) The opacity and increasingly absurd difficulty is very much all part of the joke.Frank Frank posted:Also lmao at the continuity between games. The village elder who lived in a straw hut outside the ruins in the first game has now built himself an actual castle in the middle of the amazon using tourist money and surrounded himself with what appear to be porn stars Some pretty funny realistic aftermath of the first game apparently, Lemeza is a wanted criminal for having caused massive damage to a World Heritage site and no one really noticed or believes the whole 'saved the world' thing, but it attracted huge amounts of attention to the presumably much less deadly remains of the ruins and the natives are cashing in. Ghost Leviathan has a new favorite as of 06:06 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 06:04
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Frank Frank posted:I just killed fafnir and this game is already light years beyond the first game: I think you're pretty harsh on La Mulana for somebody who apparently enjoyed it, but that's not why I'm here I'm here to tell you that beating Nidhogg is not really that difficult and is a cool way to play the game, also the signposting IIRC was not there on release and I just punched him
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May 27, 2022 06:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:La-Mulana is one of those games that's made around evoking an extremely specific era of nostalgia- the MSX, to be precise. It's a lot more obvious in the original freeware game where the collectibles are MSX games and there's even a whole area that's just Maze of Galius. (and another bit that's a riff on Snatcher) The opacity and increasingly absurd difficulty is very much all part of the joke. This is so drat cool and just makes me love these games more.
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May 27, 2022 06:11
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John Lee posted:I think you're pretty harsh on La Mulana for somebody who apparently enjoyed it, but that's not why I'm here It took me over 10 years to beat it across multiple platforms. Maybe I’m just old or you’re a video game genius but it was not easy and all of the criticisms I gave are absolutely valid - and your comment is kinda weird after I explained why the game is amazing and almost everyone should play it. quote:I’m here to tell you that beating Nidhogg is not really that difficult and is a cool way to play the game, also the signposting IIRC was not there on release and I just punched him Ok this has to be a really lame troll. There’s no punching in the game. Frank Frank has a new favorite as of 06:22 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 06:17
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Frank Frank posted:It took me over 10 years to beat it across multiple platforms. Maybe I’m just old or you’re a video game genius but it was not easy and all of the criticisms I gave are absolutely valid - and your comment is kinda weird after I explained why the game is amazing and almost everyone should play it. I mean, I guess I'd say I'm a fanatic fanboy, because I love La-Mulana, but it's not bullshit like I said, I THINK the game telling you that was added post-release, but I'm not 100% sure but it's IMO legitimately easier than many regular bosses in the game, easier than MOST bosses in the first game, and is a valid and cool choice to make like it takes a little bit, but it's "long enough to make you go 'drat, really?'" and not "long enough to be fuckin' ridiculous,", like it's a handful of minutes long quick edit: I actually have not yet beaten La-Mulana 2, because you know what else wasn't in the game at launch? Game logic preventing a door from closing and remaining permanently closed if you used a specific item on the same screen, softlocking your save file I have not gotten around to going through the game again. double edit: I didn't mean literally punching, friend, I obviously hit him with my whip John Lee has a new favorite as of 06:25 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 06:22
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John Lee posted:I mean, I guess I'd say I'm a fanatic fanboy, because I love La-Mulana, but it's not bullshit Ok so you’re being serious. Yeah I guess. It’d be like learning to beat the first salt and sanctuary boss with no gear. It’s possible but not the intended experience first time through. The contact damage it deals when you have 30-60 hp is severe enough that it allows little room for error. Plus if you leave the room xelpud emails you and says “hey come back later”. I also really enjoy playing through these games blind so intentionally sequence breaking on my first playthrough probably isn’t gonna be a thing.
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May 27, 2022 06:26
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Frank Frank posted:Ok so you’re being serious. Yeah I guess. It’d be like learning to beat the first salt and sanctuary boss with no gear. It’s possible but not the intended experience first time through. The contact damage it deals when you have 30-60 hp is severe enough that it allows little room for error. Plus if you leave the room xelpud emails you and says “hey come back later”. Like I'm saying, I don't THINK the game gave you the Xelpud message on launch, but I could be mistaken and just never noticed it... but re: time I just looked up a video; it took less than two minutes to beat him. This guy's no speedrunner, either, but then again I'm not great either so it probably took three or four? I was like "this guy is pretty strong, but I guess La-Mulana does have poo poo-hard bosses Oh, he only has two moves, that's pretty doable" Either way, I hope we can agree that La-Mulana of all kinds whips rear end, and especially the music. I have the soundtrack to the first game on my computer, and I'll still go and listen to several of the songs; Moonlight Dance, GIGA-MAGMA, and Good Night Mom are some of my favorites. I prefer the original version of Curse of Ocean ("Curse of IRON PIPE"), but I know it's different because of
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May 27, 2022 06:35
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beats for junkies posted:Left 4 Dead had an achievement that references the Dead Rising one, but for killing 53,595 zombies. The DR achievement is called "Zombie Genocider" and the L4D one is "Zombie Genocidest." I put a couple hundred hours into that game like 12 years ago so I went back and checked:  Go figure. I guess I've killed a lot of video game zombies in my life seeing as I got the Dead Rising one twice lol
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May 27, 2022 06:58
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One funny thing comes to mind that one of the most powerful weapons in La-Mulana is just a revolver. Like, out of all the Castlevania esque weapons, a black market revolver can take massive chunks out of boss health, with the only rub being that it's expensive and you have very limited ammo until you find the right shop.
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May 27, 2022 09:31
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beats for junkies posted:Left 4 Dead had an achievement that references the Dead Rising one, but for killing 53,595 zombies. The DR achievement is called "Zombie Genocider" and the L4D one is "Zombie Genocidest."
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May 27, 2022 09:53
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la mulana and la mulana 2 are great games with some very complex puzzles, cool music, and interesting worldbuilding. unfortunately not all the puzzles are signposted well and there's definitely a handful that seem to be nigh-unsolvable without trying a bunch of random poo poo or looking at outside information, but there's at least as many that are well-supported and really neat once you figure them out
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May 27, 2022 13:03
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They do a thing where there's lots of flavor text and lots of clues to puzzle solutions, and some of the flavor text is actually oblique clues to puzzles, but doesn't call itself out as such unless you realize that it's talking about stuff you've seen elsewhere. The games can require some very lateral thinking sometimes, which feels amazing if you figure it out, and pretty awful if you don't. I'd love to try making a La Mulana-type game someday, but apparently they are very difficult to create.
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May 27, 2022 14:30
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It seems like choices do have a little more impact in Dreamfall: Chapters than other games like it. Even a decision like serving your boyfriend sausages from a foodkart have some ripple effects. They also have some fun with it:
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May 27, 2022 14:53
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:They do a thing where there's lots of flavor text and lots of clues to puzzle solutions, and some of the flavor text is actually oblique clues to puzzles, but doesn't call itself out as such unless you realize that it's talking about stuff you've seen elsewhere. The games can require some very lateral thinking sometimes, which feels amazing if you figure it out, and pretty awful if you don't. It's basically adventure game moon logic applied to a Metroidvania. There's a lot of comparisons to Dark Souls for a reason.
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May 27, 2022 14:55
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You've all been doing a terrible job selling La Mulana. It has fun music, and the puzzles are good when you figure them out instantly, but it takes you years to finish?
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May 27, 2022 15:01
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that sounds like extremely good value for money though
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May 27, 2022 15:32
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Philippe posted:You've all been doing a terrible job selling La Mulana. It has fun music, and the puzzles are good when you figure them out instantly, but it takes you years to finish? it took that one person years to finish, not everyone, and i get the vibe that they're one of the people who forget this thread's supposed to be for things you enjoy also, like, games can be good but have flaws? i wish the puzzles had better solve paths but the game's a loveletter to similarly obscure older games; everything else about the games is really neat and unique. i'd play them, but with a stack of hints or a guide for when you get stuck (but at least making the effort to try to push through on your own first)
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May 27, 2022 15:35
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Bushmaori posted:Jump It's very funny that after an entire series of people putting down pointless try jumping messages, actually doing it trivializes an insane number of bosses in ER
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May 27, 2022 16:02
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's basically adventure game moon logic applied to a Metroidvania. There's a lot of comparisons to Dark Souls for a reason. Dark Souls is neither an adventure game or a Metroidvania and has nothing in common with La Mulana mechanically or tonally beyond maybe "there's ruins with monsters in 'em". So, no, there's really not a reason for those comparisons.
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May 27, 2022 16:07
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Philippe posted:You've all been doing a terrible job selling La Mulana. It has fun music, and the puzzles are good when you figure them out instantly, but it takes you years to finish? I beat the game in like a couple weeks of on and off playing, including the Hell Dungeon which absolutely lives up to its name. It’s a cool game but definitely not for everyone. If you like adventure games that don’t hold your hand and involve a bunch of puzzles that sometimes require some really out of the box thinking, you’ll probably enjoy La Mulana. The way the game was originally sold to me was that it was kind of a dungeon/temple exploration game that pushed back against how you’d typically approach such a game. Blindly jumping into holes will kill you. Whipping every wall you see to find hidden passages gets you punished by the gods. Puzzles are solved by piecing together hints and environmental clues. A kind of harsh but fair approach to the genre. But that’s also not entirely accurate because there definitely are some holes you have to jump into blindly with no indication they’re safe, and there definitely are some walls you have to whip to find hidden passages with no indication they’re safe either. Or maybe I just missed some really subtle clues. In any case, I thought it was really fun with a lot of cool little secrets and details and delving into the true depths of the temple feels like you really are uncovering legends come to life Kit Walker has a new favorite as of 17:18 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 17:16
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La-Mulana is generally fair, by a certain sort of logic; basically every puzzle has a reasonable solution given the proper information. Where, for some people, 'the proper information' fails is that some of the tougher and/or larger puzzles have the information in a different place that seems totally unrelated. So you stare at the lion statue, confused, until you remember that there was a hint in a different area that said 'look up into the fanged beast's mouth' and the secret is to stand under it and look up, which is not particularly confusing, just hard to draw the line between them. This would be a clear flaw IMO, except that the game world is pretty darn big and you're likely to have a bunch of puzzles to solve at any given time, rechecking for clues like an archaeologist. My biggest complaint with La-Mulana would be that the in-game text-saving feature takes a bit too long to get and doesn't let you save enough text (it's a lot, but it's not literally all of it). For this reason, the best way to play La-Mulana is with a small leather journal you can write cryptic messages and draw diagrams in. There are SOME puzzles that are pretty darn obscure, and the first one is very early as a signpost: a wall you have to walk through to get somewhere important. Just, you know, to let you know that there are walls you can walk through sometimes, which turns out to be relevant only a single-digit number of times (mostly in the designated Bullshit Zone, a specific area all about misleading bullshit) and important at the very end of the game (for an extra-big puzzle!). Essentially, La-Mulana is good because it's a self-consistent tone. If I was playing Megaman and the secret to continuing was to walk through a wall when I'm 5% through the game, I'd be pissed. In La-Mulana, the game's about fumbling through a trap-filled ancient ruin trying to figure things out and Indiana Jonesing your way out of things through either sudden, deadly action or checking your notes and shouting "OF COURSE," which is very on-theme.
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May 27, 2022 17:51
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Philippe posted:You've all been doing a terrible job selling La Mulana. It has fun music, and the puzzles are good when you figure them out instantly, but it takes you years to finish? I wasn’t playing it non-stop for years. I’d get stuck or frustrated and then put it down for a while. Then when I’d pick it back up, I’d end up starting over entirely. I definitely took a screen shot of the victory/game over screen and sent it to my wife - whose only response was “holy poo poo”.
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May 27, 2022 17:55
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Crowetron posted:Dark Souls is neither an adventure game or a Metroidvania and has nothing in common with La Mulana mechanically or tonally beyond maybe "there's ruins with monsters in 'em". So, no, there's really not a reason for those comparisons. Dark souls comparisons really are the dark souls of video game opinions at this point My favorite little thing recently has been in momentum mod (which confusingly isn't a mod). Combining all the fun styles of fps movement into a single platform has made relearning all this stuff a joy And as per usual defrag movement is still the most satisfying, at least to me
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May 27, 2022 17:56
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John Lee posted:La-Mulana is generally fair, by a certain sort of logic; basically every puzzle has a reasonable solution given the proper information. That’s pretty much it. I managed to figure just about everything out through in-game clues exceeeeept this one hidden passage maybe 80% of the way through the game that as far as I could tell had no real indication anywhere at all on how to access it. Just a specific wall in an otherwise unremarkable room that you needed to hit to open. Fortunately there are lots of guides and hint pages if you don’t want to struggle the whole way but it’s quite rewarding to engage with it on its own terns
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May 27, 2022 17:59
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flatluigi posted:it took that one person years to finish, not everyone, and i get the vibe that they're one of the people who forget this thread's supposed to be for things you enjoy I didn’t forget. I literally spent a decade playing it and my “favorite little thing” is that I finally beat it. I absolutely do love the game. It has made me insanely frustrated, but I also love it. I also love talking about the game because no one I know irl has actually played it. Kit Walker posted:That’s pretty much it. I managed to figure just about everything out through in-game clues exceeeeept this one hidden passage maybe 80% of the way through the game that as far as I could tell had no real indication anywhere at all on how to access it. Just a specific wall in an otherwise unremarkable room that you needed to hit to open. Fortunately there are lots of guides and hint pages if you don’t want to struggle the whole way but it’s quite rewarding to engage with it on its own terns That was the room in the temple of moonlight that has the axe for me. I found it accidentally but as far as I can tell, there are no hints anywhere to tell you to search for it there. Best weapon in the game and absolutely necessary for some of the bosses. Frank Frank has a new favorite as of 18:04 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 18:01
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:They do a thing where there's lots of flavor text and lots of clues to puzzle solutions, and some of the flavor text is actually oblique clues to puzzles, but doesn't call itself out as such unless you realize that it's talking about stuff you've seen elsewhere. The games can require some very lateral thinking sometimes, which feels amazing if you figure it out, and pretty awful if you don't. I think the other thing is that the puzzles rely on just about every possible type of clue and hint they could think of, but as the player you're not necessarily fully trained to be on the look-out for those clues. Like I remember an otherwise simple "go here and do this thing to make something happen" puzzle in LM1 hinges on going to a specific room. How do you know which room? The game basically directly tells you where to go...but you might not at all realize that each room is actually named in the map program. Similarly, a lot of "you didn't think to handy scan random background details?" stuff in the later parts of the game. On the other hand, there's still a lot of pure moon logic poo poo in there. loving bend the knee.  Crowetron posted:Dark Souls is neither an adventure game or a Metroidvania and has nothing in common with La Mulana mechanically or tonally beyond maybe "there's ruins with monsters in 'em". So, no, there's really not a reason for those comparisons. The storytelling is very similar in nature, even if the exact methods are different. You're slowing peeling apart multiple layers of a lost civilization, unearthing greater treasures and power as much as you are greater dangers and peril. Both games have big cool bosses with dramatic music. The limited and static nature of the save/fast travel points in La-Mulana is very, very similar to bonfires in Dark Souls. Also, La-Mulana's just kinda hard and Dark Souls is kinda hard too, so QED. Also the point isn't that Dark Souls is an adventure game, but that it also has obtuse secrets like an old adventure game.
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May 27, 2022 18:37
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Dark Souls doesn't have obtuse secrets like old adventure games, it has obtuse secrets like old dungeoncrawlers.
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May 27, 2022 18:40
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