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I walked out of TLJ kinda ambivalent... I didn't hate it; I liked it a lot more than Awakens; and it's better than Rise... but in the weeks after seeing it I just kinda started feeling down about Star Wars in general, and sold all of the Star Wars merchandise I'd accumulated over the years. Other than Rise (had to see how it ended?) I've had no interest in any of the franchise since then either. Despite my general distaste at Awakens, it still has the best scene in the sequels with the Kylo/Rey/Finn snow fight at the end.
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May 27, 2022 20:21
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Vinylshadow posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqcv2RJ83nE Insane to me that Disney sold ad and sponsor spots for this
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May 27, 2022 20:49
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Do we get any tangible news today or is it all just cosplay contests and poo poo?
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May 27, 2022 20:54
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No Mods No Masters posted:Kylo Ren, a child murdering genocidal nazi, foreclosed the possibility of redemption forever by killing Han Solo, from Star Wars Except he was then redeemed in the following movie. But the Disney movies are so ludicrously disparate that we can’t even pretend they’re supposed to relate to each other at all.
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May 27, 2022 21:32
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Ghost Leviathan posted:TLJ has huge problems with actively refusing to establish overall stakes and goals even implicitly, even worse than TFA did. And TRoS, lol, lmao. The goal was for everyone to not die, and the stakes were that everyone might die. It’s a pretty big part of the movie! quote:That's basically what Luke "learns" in the film. He's sulking at the island because he's got remorse for failing as a teacher and pushing Kylo over the edge. Then he just accepts that poo poo happens and that Kylo cannot be redeemed which "rejuvenates" him (he chooses to appear younger to Kylo and the others - weird choice since it could alert Kylo that he's not really there) and just goes to gently caress with Kylo. Luke learns that his failure to save Kylo doesn’t mean that he should give up on the Jedi, which can still be a force for good if people who can fight, do. It has nothing to do with Kyle being irredeemable, and the film explicitly shows that Kyle is in fact not irredeemable (see his hesitation to blow up Leia) quote:The premise is that Luke Skywalker is a messianic figure, an agent of God, who Leia predicts will inevitably arrive and singlehandedly fix everything. Luke himself even comments on how stupid that premise is - but that’s what they call a “lampshade”. And then the entire basic reversal is that this stupid belief ends up being ‘true’. Luke doesn’t actually single-handedly fix anything. He exploits Kyle’s inability to let go of the past to buy time for the heroes to escape. They escape because they don’t give up hope and keep trying to save lives instead of making a pointless last stand. quote:Take the line “let the past die”, and mush it up with the salt-fox imagery, and you can claim that - by following the foxes into the cave away from Luke - the resistance is “letting the past die”, and this is some kind of ‘deep’ statement on something or other (failure versus hope?). You can also conclude the opposite, because all it’s so thoroughly decontextualized. Maybe the foxes represent the past, since it’s good that they don’t die? Letting the past die is the villains thesis and the movie takes pains to reject it in basically every way it can. TLJ is in fact an extremely nostalgic film - probably to its own detriment, in the end. I am so loving confused by the number of people who think TLJ has any interest in letting the past die. The climax hinges on Kylo Ren not being able to let the past die! TheLoquid fucked around with this message at 21:59 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 21:39
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Robot Style posted:Hayden Christensen is the same age now as Vader is in A New Hope. I wonder if Disney would ever sneakily update his ghost in ROTJ now that they have him around... lol that would require effort.
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May 27, 2022 21:42
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Grendels Dad posted:lol that would require effort. ...more than the effort of producing five movies, five seasons of live action TV and four seasons of animated TV?
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May 27, 2022 21:44
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TheLoquid posted:Luke learns that his failure to save Kylo doesn’t mean that he should give up on the Jedi, which can still be a force for good if people who can fight, do. It has nothing to do with Kyle being irredeemable, and the film explicitly shows that Kyle is in fact not irredeemable (see his hesitation to blow up Leia) I agree with this for what it's worth, I think the kylo is irredeemable reading gets reduced to absurdity for a variety of reasons. But that just brings us back full circle to what started this whole conversation: in this movie about learning from your failures, what was rey's failure and what did she learn?
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May 27, 2022 21:56
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stev posted:...more than the effort of producing five movies, five seasons of live action TV and four seasons of animated TV? I made that comment because... have you looked at some of that poo poo?
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May 27, 2022 22:00
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TheLoquid posted:Letting the past die is the villains thesis and the movie takes pains to reject it in basically every way it can. TLJ is in fact an extremely nostalgic film - probably to its own detriment, in the end. I am so loving confused by the number of people who think TLJ has any interest in letting the past die. The climax hinges on Kylo Ren not being able to let the past die! Rey and Luke are both stuck in the past and the resolution of their respective conflicts (such as one exists at all for Rey) is moving on from their past (lost parents/wanting to murder nephew for thoughtcrime). You might say that they let their past die, though this is only necessary so that they can become better soldiers for Leia’s unpopular bid to restore the republic. And, of course, the movie ends with the embodied avatar of the past dying to save the future of the resistance.
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May 27, 2022 23:02
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ruddiger posted:"some people can't be saved" is a wild take about a series specifically about redeeming darth vader. Yes and that’s why Rey failed. The goal of Kylo, I thought was they weren’t doing someone who was being pushed to the light but to the dark. A full on evil maniac. Didn’t happen but that’s what I thought it was setting up
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May 27, 2022 23:28
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Disney has only one idea and one idea only: holy poo poo. You're right. That's "Bad Batch" as well.
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May 27, 2022 23:30
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Vinylshadow posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqcv2RJ83nE Give me ALL the STAR WARS. WILL WATCH EVERYTHING DISNEY+ THEATRICAL SPECIAL EDITION SPECIAL SPECIAL EDITION SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL gently caress YOU THIS ISN'T THE SAME MOVIE ANYMORE EDITION-- GIVE IT ALL TO ME. 100 YEARS STAR WARS STAR WARS TO MY loving EYEBALLS A FEATURE LENGTH MOVIE OF WATTO TAKING A poo poo. GIVE. ME. HONDO WHITE WALLING A STORAGE CRATE WITH SPACE CUM AND GOING ON AN ADVENTURE TO FIND A SUFFICIENTLY USEFUL CLEANING AGENT. GREENLIGHT IT NOW. THE KAMINOAN STARRING ANYA TAYLOR JOY AS A GALACTIC POP SUPERSTAR RIPPING OFF BJORK SONGS IN AN ALIEN LANGUAGE [AS IF ICELANDIC ISN'T ALIEN ENOUGH]. THE METHUSELIAN FEATURING GROGU TAKING ON SITH ETERNAL ISIS LEADING DIRECTLY TO EPISODES X, XI, AND XII ABOUT WATTO'S GREAT GRANDSON'S EPIC QUEST TO FIND A DECENT PLACE TO TAKE A poo poo BC IT'S LIKE POETRY IT RHYMES.
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May 27, 2022 23:30
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Snowman_McK posted:holy poo poo. You're right. That's "Bad Batch" as well. Disney is run by every marketing department I've been a part of. Lone Wolf and Cub worked with Mandelorian, what else can we do this with?!
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May 27, 2022 23:35
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Darko posted:Disney is run by every marketing department I've been a part of. Lone Wolf and Cub worked with Mandelorian, what else can we do this with?! Bad Batch even has the 'one of the good guys has turned bad, can they get him to be good again?'
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May 27, 2022 23:42
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The Bad Batch child was annoying at first but did get better. So there’s hope here.
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May 27, 2022 23:51
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Vintersorg posted:The Bad Batch child was annoying at first but did get better. So there’s hope here. Really? That's good to hear because I'm five episodes in and she's just awful so far. Not the character itself so much but the acting and animation are both bizarrely bad when every other character feels so smooth. These Star Wars animated shows have never gotten the hang of kids. They're all creepy little dolls right from the start of Clone Wars.
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May 27, 2022 23:55
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No Mods No Masters posted:I agree with this for what it's worth, I think the kylo is irredeemable reading gets reduced to absurdity for a variety of reasons. But that just brings us back full circle to what started this whole conversation: in this movie about learning from your failures, what was rey's failure and what did she learn? I don’t really think her arc is best understood as learning from failure as much as it is her being repeatedly disillusioned but not giving up on her core beliefs. Her arc is really more of a test of faith.
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May 28, 2022 00:07
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TheLoquid posted:Letting the past die is the villains thesis and the movie takes pains to reject it in basically every way it can. TLJ is in fact an extremely nostalgic film - probably to its own detriment, in the end. I am so loving confused by the number of people who think TLJ has any interest in letting the past die. The climax hinges on Kylo Ren not being able to let the past die! You can interpret it that way. You can also interpret it the exact other way, with a key point in the film being Yoda killing the past with lightning bolts, freeing Luke from his guilt.
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May 28, 2022 00:07
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stev posted:Really? That's good to hear because I'm five episodes in and she's just awful so far. Not the character itself so much but the acting and animation are both bizarrely bad when every other character feels so smooth. I liked kid Boba Fett.
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May 28, 2022 00:07
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I was dumb to think The Book Of Boba would've been about Omega finding her brother, realizing he's an evil crimelord, and taking him down.
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May 28, 2022 00:18
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Yeah that's quite the imagination you've got
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May 28, 2022 00:28
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lol i had hope for the kenobi series but of course it has to have a precocious leia in it fool me once......
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May 28, 2022 00:51
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Horizon Burning posted:lol i had hope for the kenobi series but of course it has to have a precocious leia in it How many does that make now... Obi-Wan and Luke Qui-Gon and Anakin Anakin and Ahsoka Kanan and Ezra Han and Rey Yeager and Kaz Cere and Cal Bad Batch and Omega Din and Grogu
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May 28, 2022 00:54
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TheLoquid posted:Luke doesn’t actually single-handedly fix anything. He exploits Kyle’s inability to let go of the past to buy time for the heroes to escape. They escape because they don’t give up hope and keep trying to save lives instead of making a pointless last stand. Well, you know what a messiah is, right? Luke sacrifices himself to save everyone, and then his ‘holy spirit’ is passed on to his followers, who emerge from a cave reborn with ‘everything they need’ - a belief in the Nice Force and a drawer full of bibles. Luke himself literally calls it a spiritual rebirth, and it was more-or-less what Leia and Holdo had expected from the beginning. The whole thing where Leia sent Rey out to the Ireland planet was retconned into a desperate attempt at contacting Luke before they are all obliterated. But this is not just a ‘rational’ means of reducing casualties, because that ignores why there are casualties at all.
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May 28, 2022 00:54
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Vinylshadow posted:How many does that make now... i feel like that article about how they reshot the series to be less dark and depressing was meaning to add in the leia stuff.
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May 28, 2022 01:17
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In an act of caprice, I've decided that I will watch the Obi-wan show and I'll write up each episode. I've already done 1 and 2 and I can only assume my petulent whining for George Lucas to come back will increase over the four remaining episodes. Also wow that's not many episodes.
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May 28, 2022 01:37
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josh04 posted:In an act of caprice, I've decided that I will watch the Obi-wan show and I'll write up each episode. I've already done 1 and 2 and I can only assume my petulent whining for George Lucas to come back will increase over the four remaining episodes. Also wow that's not many episodes. I enjoyed your Invincible review so looking forward to it!
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May 28, 2022 01:40
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Horizon Burning posted:i feel like that article about how they reshot the series to be less dark and depressing was meaning to add in the leia stuff. In my experience, reshoots to make things "less dark" just mean changing nighttime scenes to take place during the day because studio executives are incredibly dumb. The Leia stuff is a big enough aspect of the show that it seems unlikely they'd do such a complete overhaul. Though the number of credited writers on each episode does make me wonder what was leftover from earlier versions of the story. Apparently the first three episodes and the last episode contain elements from Stuart Beattie and Hossein Amini's versions of the story, while Joby Harold, Hannah Friedman, and Andrew Stanton came up with the stuff in episodes 4 and 5.
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May 28, 2022 01:48
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stev posted:The Luke we see in TLJ exists in the context of the prequels. He set out to restore and rebuild an abusive political warrior cult - and the only guidance he really had was the from supporters of that cult and Youngling Killer 3000. The dude learned the wrong lessons, got in over his head and hosed up in a big way. He then regretted and tried to atone. Agree 100%. Luke's whole thing in the OT is walking right up the edge of the Dark side but then using his connections with friends, family, etc to resist doing something unforgivable like his father did. Those relationships are what center him in the positive side of the Force, despite the erroneous belief of the Jedi that they are the slippery slope to corruption. So when he faces a similar dilemma with increasingly corrupted Ben Solo (and we have no reason to doubt Luke's perception of this, especially since Ren doesn't deny being tempted by Snoke during his time at Luke's school), it makes sense that he would freak the gently caress out and nearly drat himself by attempting to preemptively avert the galaxy being plunged into darkness yet again. Except in this case his (rightful) hesitation causes the turmoil and conflict he wanted to prevent, his nascent revitalization of the Jedi gets cratered, and oh by the way good luck telling your sister and best friend it's your fault that their kid ran off to become the new holy terror figurehead of the fascist remnant. Of course Luke would go on a wild goose chase to try and find some ancient knowledge to save the day, and then become despondent that the teachings of a moribund religious order can't tell him anything useful. It's very unfortunate that Hamill (and the powers that be at Disney) has basically disowned TLJ at every turn, given that his performance in it was great from start to finish. It was pretty much the only thing I was interested in seeing develop in the third one, but of course they dumpstered it and are now doing everything possible to memoryhole it. Give it another 10 years of shows and I wouldn't be surprised if they retconned TLJ Luke to be a clone or a projection of the dark side cave or whatever.
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May 28, 2022 03:16
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He was also responsible for the other kids/young adults under his tutelage and he didn’t tell their parents poo poo
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May 28, 2022 03:24
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josh04 posted:In an act of caprice, I've decided that I will watch the Obi-wan show and I'll write up each episode. I've already done 1 and 2 and I can only assume my petulent whining for George Lucas to come back will increase over the four remaining episodes. Also wow that's not many episodes. I liked these, please post them when you do them!
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May 28, 2022 03:28
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Valve Steam Deck posted:The WWII analogy from this video does a good job of demonstrating just how nuts the conflict became in the sequels This was really interesting, thank you.
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May 28, 2022 04:11
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That video is broadly correct about how insane this all is, but misses the fact that the First Order ultimately wins everything. They soundly defeat the New Republic partway through Episode 7, and then crush a mysterious third faction (what we might call the Neo-Empire) at the end of Episode 9.
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May 28, 2022 05:05
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The Leia kidnapping was rumored all the way back when it was going to be a movie.
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May 28, 2022 05:54
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If Obi-wan and Leia are directly interacting in this show, doesn't it make her message in A New Hope even weirder? It already didn't quite fit the prequels since he didn't directly serve Bail but now it should be like "Hey Obi-wan, poo poo's hosed, could you help a girl out again?"
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May 28, 2022 06:09
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Shiroc posted:If Obi-wan and Leia are directly interacting in this show, doesn't it make her message in A New Hope even weirder? It already didn't quite fit the prequels since he didn't directly serve Bail but now it should be like "Hey Obi-wan, poo poo's hosed, could you help a girl out again?"
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May 28, 2022 06:45
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Shiroc posted:If Obi-wan and Leia are directly interacting in this show, doesn't it make her message in A New Hope even weirder? It already didn't quite fit the prequels since he didn't directly serve Bail but now it should be like "Hey Obi-wan, poo poo's hosed, could you help a girl out again?" It does the same trick the PT did with anything anyone in the OT said about it. When Leia is rescued Luke says "Ben Kenobi" is with them, and Leia immediately perks up "Ben Kenobi, where is he?!" - OFC she doesn't remember a general obi-wan kenobi, but she remembers a Ben who saved her rear end once 
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May 28, 2022 07:13
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Hot drat, this Obiwan show is terrible. Just bland cinematography, expository score, and leaden pacing. The initial kid Leia scenes sometimes approach Ewok-movie kitsch quality, but the bulk is straight amateur hour. Avoid!
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May 28, 2022 07:31
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Prophet of Nixon posted:Despite my general distaste at Awakens, it still has the best scene in the sequels with the Kylo/Rey/Finn snow fight at the end.
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May 28, 2022 07:33
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