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Batterypowered7 posted:Narset's Reversal and Mindbreak Trap are nifty. Ah poo poo I forgot about those too. Narset's Reversal can do a lot of fun stuff.
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May 28, 2022 00:52
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It was never hugely powerful but Guild Summit was a gate synergy card I had some fun with.
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May 28, 2022 00:54
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Framboise posted:Ah poo poo I forgot about those too. Narset's Reversal can do a lot of fun stuff. Too bad Summary Dismissal doesn't have a free cast mode.
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May 28, 2022 00:58
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Framboise posted:Sure, I'll bite. I'd honestly throw Muddle the Mixture into tier 1 and Warping Wail on the gimmick list.
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May 28, 2022 01:48
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Narset's Reversal can rescue a Flashback card from the graveyard. I mostly use it on my own spells like to keep a Cyclonic Rift in my hand
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May 28, 2022 01:55
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Toshimo posted:I'd honestly throw Muddle the Mixture into tier 1 and Warping Wail on the gimmick list. Holy poo poo, how did I forget Muddle? ...probably because 90% of the times I've used it, it's been a transmute tutor.
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May 28, 2022 03:32
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Damnit, me putting the shitposters on ignore doesn't work if you keep responding to them, people.  Toshimo posted:Let me break this down real clean: Cards are the most valuable resource, followed closely by mana. Swan Song, Swords to Plowshares, Necropotense. Amazing cards. They give your opponents life, pay your life, give opponents creatures: Whatever it takes to get ahead on cards and mana. Dysgenesis posted:This is very important. Its also why arcane denial is good in edh. Bust Rodd posted:If you absolutely need to be running 12+ counterspells then yeah arcane denial is fine
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May 28, 2022 03:33
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Take away the context of this lovely white Divination and imagine, instead, an effect that costs neither a card nor mana nor any other resource from any particular player, and gives 1 card to each player. It is doing literally the same thing for every player. Now, leaving aside the specific board state (e.g. having more cards is more beneficial to the person with more mana), are you going to seriously tell me that this effect is somehow bad for you but good for your opponents? Or is it, in fact, the same for every player? Is it somehow bad for everyone simultaneously?? What if the exact opposite happens? If everyone mulligans to 6 (leaving aside, again, differences in deck composition that might affect the evaluation here), are you at an advantage because 3 opponents have 1 less card each for a total of -3, but you only have 1 less card? Since this situation is also completely symmetric, does that mean everyone is at an advantage over everyone else???
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May 28, 2022 03:58
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DontMockMySmock posted:Take away the context of this lovely white Divination and imagine, instead, an effect that costs neither a card nor mana nor any other resource from any particular player, and gives 1 card to each player. It is doing literally the same thing for every player. Now, leaving aside the specific board state (e.g. having more cards is more beneficial to the person with more mana), are you going to seriously tell me that this effect is somehow bad for you but good for your opponents? Or is it, in fact, the same for every player? Is it somehow bad for everyone simultaneously?? I'm not really following your example on the first part. For the second part though, no, if everyone mulls to 6, it's parity and the advantage goes to whoever goes first. What sets the lovely card apart here is that you already go down a card and the mana to cast it to go, ideally, +2 in net card advantage in a vacuum, but you're really going -1 because now your opponents have 3 more cards at their disposal. While you may individually get the upper hand over any other individual player, in the grand scheme of the whole game you fed your opposition more than you ultimately got out of the deal. Yes, it's possible whatever you gave them could be pointed at someone else, but you're playing to win, yeah? So it's also a safe assumption that anything you gave them could be used against you. Feeding your opponents cards is probably one of the worst things you could do in Magic if you're not punishing them for it somehow. It's why I can never really wrap my head around group hug decks.
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May 28, 2022 04:22
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Framboise posted:I'm not really following your example on the first part. The exact opposite of the second one. Everyone mulligans to 8, if such a thing were possible.
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May 28, 2022 04:35
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Parity is parity, whether everyone has 6 or 8 cards. Like yeah you have 3 other people against you, but in your examples, everyone is starting off with the exact same advantage and disadvantage in terms of card count and opponent count-- card quality notwithstanding. A good mull to 5 will usually do better than a 7-card 1-lander with no ramp or relevant early game plays.
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May 28, 2022 05:09
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DontMockMySmock posted:What if the exact opposite happens? If everyone mulligans to 6 (leaving aside, again, differences in deck composition that might affect the evaluation here), are you at an advantage because 3 opponents have 1 less card each for a total of -3, but you only have 1 less card? Since this situation is also completely symmetric, does that mean everyone is at an advantage over everyone else??? I view myself as at -14 cards at the start of every game and expect to have to pull myself out of the defecit with good cards and strong gameplay to win.
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May 28, 2022 05:13
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Framboise posted:Parity is parity, whether everyone has 6 or 8 cards. Like yeah you have 3 other people against you, but in your examples, everyone is starting off with the exact same advantage and disadvantage in terms of card count and opponent count-- card quality notwithstanding. A good mull to 5 will usually do better than a 7-card 1-lander with no ramp or relevant early game plays. Okay, cool, it's symmetric. So if there are two cards that do the exact same thing, except one of them has "everyone draws 1 card" tacked on to the end, it would be insanity to say one of them gives you +0 cards and the other gives you -2 cards, right??? (again, depending on the exact board state, there can be reasons why "everyone draws 1 card" might be better or worse for certain players, but that's extremely situationally dependent and the stuff I'm trying to argue against is general statements.) Toshimo posted:I view myself as at -14 cards at the start of every game and expect to have to pull myself out of the defecit with good cards and strong gameplay to win. but surely if you're at -14, then everyone else who is in the exact same situation as you is also at -14? idk I cannot wrap my head around this point of view
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May 28, 2022 06:59
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DontMockMySmock posted:but surely if you're at -14, then everyone else who is in the exact same situation as you is also at -14? idk I cannot wrap my head around this point of view Individually, yes. But just because one of them loses, doesn't mean I win.
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May 28, 2022 07:07
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DontMockMySmock posted:Okay, cool, it's symmetric. So if there are two cards that do the exact same thing, except one of them has "everyone draws 1 card" tacked on to the end, it would be insanity to say one of them gives you +0 cards and the other gives you -2 cards, right??? (again, depending on the exact board state, there can be reasons why "everyone draws 1 card" might be better or worse for certain players, but that's extremely situationally dependent and the stuff I'm trying to argue against is general statements.) Also, symmetric is generally bad. Because it still costs you (mana, tempo, deck slots). If they made a Lightning Bolt that also said "every player draws a card", it would be garbage and nobody would play that.
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May 28, 2022 07:10
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DontMockMySmock posted:Okay, cool, it's symmetric. So if there are two cards that do the exact same thing, except one of them has "everyone draws 1 card" tacked on to the end, it would be insanity to say one of them gives you +0 cards and the other gives you -2 cards, right??? (again, depending on the exact board state, there can be reasons why "everyone draws 1 card" might be better or worse for certain players, but that's extremely situationally dependent and the stuff I'm trying to argue against is general statements.) Card draw and card advantage are not the same thing. In the case of the card in question, yes, you're playing one card and getting three in return, ideally, getting a net gain of 2 cards. In a vacuum, this is fine and dandy. But this is not the entirety of the situation. Card advantage is a comparison between what card resources you have in comparison to your opponent(s). In EDH, you start off with parity with each other player as an individual (assume everyone keeps 7 in this example), but since you're facing three other players, you're at a total disadvantage of -14, as there are 28 cards in everyone's hand at the table and 21 of them aren't yours. But this is still balanced by the fact that everyone else is in the exact same situation in terms of what they're up against as far as card advantage goes. Yes, Cut a Deal or whatever it's called does give you a net gain in card draw, but it gives you a net loss in total card advantage. You spent a card to draw 3, so you're up 2 cards. But each of your three opponents drew a card, adding 3 cards to other hands that are not yours, so you end up giving away more than you actually gain in the end of the transaction. Unless the effect you are getting is absolutely free (spending no mana or cards) in these kinds of situations, "symmetry" will almost always still end up not in your overall favor. For another example, in the case of Secret Rendezvous, you're drawing 3 and someone else is drawing 3, but you spent a card and 3 mana to get a net gain of 2 cards (since you spent one to cast the spell to begin with) and target opponent is getting 3 for no cost at all, thus ultimately gaining more than you in the end. It's not zero sum-- the opponent ends up better off than you in terms of total card advantage. Cut a Deal is much the same, except the cards are spread across all three opponents instead of just one. Both cards suck imo, but I'd say Rendezvous is just slightly better if not only because it'd be harder, mana-wise, for one player to use 3 cards than 3 players to use 1 each. So unless it's super late game and the person you just gave cards to had a ton of mana available, they're somewhat bottlenecked by mana limitations. quote:but surely if you're at -14, then everyone else who is in the exact same situation as you is also at -14? idk I cannot wrap my head around this point of view Correct. I think what's muddling you up is that you are viewing everyone's gains and losses on an individual level and not from the perspective of total losses and gains for the whole table in terms of you vs. everyone else. Remember that at the end of the day, while everyone's against each other, you're still against everyone and you need to win against 3 people. Anything in any opponent's hand is a potential threat to you being able to accomplish that goal. Toshimo posted:If they made a Lightning Bolt that also said "every player draws a card", it would be garbage and nobody would play that. If you somehow make it in white, people would call it incredible for some reason. 
Framboise fucked around with this message at 07:42 on May 28, 2022 |
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May 28, 2022 07:29
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thanks for all the video recommendations a couple of pages back. until now my experience with edh media has basically just been the command zone
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May 28, 2022 08:31
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If you're having a hard time conceptualizing how/why card advantage works in a multiplayer format, think of this: No matter what your play is to win, any one of your opponents could sink that play with at least a single card: a timely counterspell, spot removal, a board wipe, a fog effect, etc. The specifics depend on timing, context, and a bunch of other factors, but none of that matters in this example. All that matters is that every card your opponents have is a potential threat to your win cons. You have to treat every card you cannot see as a threat, even if they are, statistically speaking, ~35% lands and ~20% ramp and all that. It doesn't matter who has the answer to your win con; if it's out there collectively in the hands of your opponents, it's going to get used to stymie you. In terms of you winning the game, your opponents are one entity, and giving them collectively three cards to your (net) two is bad news. Worse yet, every card your opponents draw could be the one card they need to trigger their winning the game. The calculus of card advantage is a bit different on this side of the ledger, but it just makes this white card draw thing that Shivam is flipping out about even stupider. 
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May 28, 2022 09:06
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CODChimera posted:thanks for all the video recommendations a couple of pages back. until now my experience with edh media has basically just been the command zone When//If you’re ready to embrace high power deckbuilding & gameplay, the Stacked EDH cEDH content guide is really good and I personally vouch for at least 9 of these content creators! DontMockMySmock posted:but surely if you're at -14, then everyone else who is in the exact same situation as you is also at -14? idk I cannot wrap my head around this point of view Yeah, everyone is down -14 cards in a single player game, which means everyone of us needs to generate 21+ cards worth of “advantage” to achieve parity with the rest of the table. It gets nebulous at a certain point because you can’t actually ascertain the value of generating 21 treasure off a Smothering Tithe + Wheel of Fortune without giving yourself a nosebleed, but also typically a play that hard to accurately map value is almost certainly the play that wins the game.
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May 28, 2022 11:50
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Bust Rodd posted:When//If you’re ready to embrace high power deckbuilding & gameplay, the Stacked EDH cEDH content guide is really good and I personally vouch for at least 9 of these content creators! Agree, I'll always throw out a recommendation for RebellSon and Playing With Power. The Mind Sculptors have a pretty decent podcast too, just be aware they have Opinions on cards and aren't afraid to have some hot takes here and there. Play to Win tends to have some interesting decks in their gameplay videos, just know that misplays are pretty common and if you catch them it'll bug you for the rest of the video. :P Not quite as familiar with the rest outside of cEDH TV, whose takes on card evaluation tend to be just a bit too hot for me personally, but he's also not afraid to ignore the meta and just build what you like and what feels best and works best for you, which I do admire.
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May 28, 2022 14:59
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Azza Bamboo posted:Wheels can do a bunch of cool things. Another neat thing to do with Wheels is play them very early. Most folks will have Mulliganed strategically, so if you're first in order and your turn one is "Mountain, Mana Crypt -> Wheel of Fortune" a lot of your opponent's strategies just went out the window. Doesn't win you the game or anything, and it could potentially backfire, but it usually throws folks off a lot.
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May 28, 2022 15:15
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I've done that before, turn 1 on the play. Land, rocks, wheel. I don't remember if I won that game, but the collective groan at the table when I dropped it was funny.
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May 28, 2022 15:26
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Framboise posted:I've done that before, turn 1 on the play. Land, rocks, wheel. I don't remember if I won that game, but the collective groan at the table when I dropped it was funny. I had someone go Turn 1 Mountain, Winds of change to mulligan everyone into new hands. He was the only one to give himself a no-lander. He lost that game.
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May 28, 2022 18:24
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The worst thing I've ever done to a playgroup was dump a hand full of mana rocks, cast narset and then windfall. T1 win without actually casting a win condition.
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May 28, 2022 18:27
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I'm out at sea and we drafted a box of Commander Legends last night. I ended up running Sengir, the Dark Baron and Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar and absolutely smoked the place. Two games in a row I managed to play Kediss followed by Volcanic Torrent to clear the board and super-charge Sengir, then one-shot the table. The first time they never saw it coming. The second time they couldn't believe I drew into it again so early. It was stupid but it was fun. e: Also I changed lanes like halfway through the draft so my deck was like 2/3 lands, but Cascade gives no fucks. Mr. Bad Guy fucked around with this message at 22:54 on May 28, 2022 |
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May 28, 2022 22:51
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I think stupidly one of the cards I'm most excited to get in the whole set is a Common, because it means I can add another Funboi to my Slimefoot deck. I hope Saprolings come back in some set, but I'm not holding my breath because it's Squirrels all the way down these days.
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May 29, 2022 19:38
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Well, we are going back to Dominaria this year. Odds are good for more saps.
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May 29, 2022 19:49
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I want a straight up reprint of OG Thallid in United
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May 29, 2022 20:05
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https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/commander-legends-battle-baldurs-gate-commander-decklists-2022-05-30 First precon list is out. UB Talisman reprint is nice I guess.
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May 30, 2022 18:20
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LibrarianCroaker posted:https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/commander-legends-battle-baldurs-gate-commander-decklists-2022-05-30 I am shocked and appalled to announce that there's at least $60 in playable reprint equity in there and the mana base is actually functional. The creatures are all overpriced durdle trash, so you'll dissect it for parts but if the MSRP is like $40 or something, it's actually worth buying.
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May 30, 2022 18:26
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My guess is it'll be 50+ like the New Capenna precons because they seem to think adding that 2-card collector booster sampler makes it worth that much more. (It's not, I bought the Obscura precon and it even somehow came with TWO collector booster sampler packs and both were worthless) Don't really care about this first precon, but it'll drive the price down of Hullbreaker Horror so that's cool with me.
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May 30, 2022 18:58
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This precon is the first time Hunted Horror has been reprinted and it’s currently $14, so that’s kind of sweet.
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May 30, 2022 19:31
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take three tablets posted:This precon is the first time Hunted Horror has been reprinted and it’s currently $14, so that’s kind of sweet. 
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May 30, 2022 19:34
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https://articles.starcitygames.com/magic-the-gathering/commander-legends-battle-for-baldurs-gate-deck-reveal-draconic-dissent/
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May 30, 2022 20:00
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Not sold on that one either. The red goad-themed commander seems fun though with a Background that boosts his power though.
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May 30, 2022 20:05
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Framboise posted:My guess is it'll be 50+ like the New Capenna precons because they seem to think adding that 2-card collector booster sampler makes it worth that much more. They don't care what it's "worth". They think you'll pay. But it. You need it. You know you want it. These cards will never appear anywhere else. You need them for commander. Once they're gone they're gone. What if one of them shoots up in price like Dockside? Buy it. It's not like you have any choice. You've been playing magic and a loyal customer for 25 years and you're overwhelmed with 30+ product releases a year? gently caress you, buy it.
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May 30, 2022 22:00
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On a completely unrelated note, I've spent hours this weekend pruning my already pretty curated collection and I'm up to about 800 cards that I'm going to sell. Just have to finish up red, then make a list of them... It's been eye opening how much some of these cards have spiked in the last few years.
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May 30, 2022 23:08
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The party deck spoiling tomorrow is going to have this absolutely insane card, that I think will be catnip for casual/durdly and competitive decks alike: https://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/black-market-connections/ 2B for an enchantment that draws cards, creates treasure, and sure a changeling too for your sliver deck why not. I bet it eats up almost all the value of its deck.
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May 31, 2022 03:37
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coelomate posted:The party deck spoiling tomorrow is going to have this absolutely insane card, that I think will be catnip for casual/durdly and competitive decks alike: I think this thing will be the next Dockside in terms of exploding value
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May 31, 2022 03:51
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The new Arena is cool, but the chase rare definitely Displacer Kitten, that card is the most on-it’s-face completely broken combo engine and exacerbates every problem in the format immediately.
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May 31, 2022 04:13
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